Invitational 10: 2005-2006. Game over! before 624

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #650 (ISO) » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:11 pm

Bluesoul PBP done up to page 15. It will be finished and posted tomorrow.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #651 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:35 am

Elias has killed the game.

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #652 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:32 am

Its totally my fault that I'm now the only one posting.

pablito · Post Post #653 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:35 am

I'm really kinda waiting for Patrick and Ether to respond, because I'm curious to how they'll react to the latest conversations.

elvis_knits · Post Post #654 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:52 am

I'm waiting for the CDB wagon to get underway.

Isn't this how we roll? When we fail to lynch we go after the lynchee's choice of wagon?

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #655 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:15 pm

I fail for another day. Signups for FFVII filled up faster than expected and I had to hurry up and finish role PMs (still doing it now).

Ether · Post Post #656 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:55 pm

I don't think Elias is scum. Dunno. I don't have a formal meta, but I'm WIFOMing his track record; I kind of think he'd have been less sloppy with his DGBvote and gotten interested faster as scum.

I don't like Elvis's recent votehops: she picked up some flak for her MBLvote, then stayed quiet for four days and switched to CDB without another word on MBL. (She says there's a parallel to this in CDB's falling behind, but her spat with him doesn't seem worth lurking as scum--plus he later unvotes, so it doesn't work as a sinister way to keep a vote on her anyway. I'm not interested in any part of her case.) Having said that, I'd sort of expect her to be pushing a DGBlynch over a brand new wagon--I don't get why she's abandoned her DGBhate, regardless of alignment. Elvis, what

is

your opinion of DGB?

My own opinion of DGB keeps oscillating between "shit why am I voting Elvis" and "oh that meta thing."

I asked Bird some questions in my 609.

Elias: 4 (Bluesoul, pablito, DGB, MBL)
Elvis_Knits: 3 (chamber, Patrick, Ether)
DGB: 2 (Bird1111, Elias)
CDB: 1 (Elvis)
not voting: 2 (HackerHuck, CDB)

HackerHuck · Post Post #657 (ISO) » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:49 pm

Sorry about my delay in responding. I was relegated to using my mobile for internet the past few days and it wasn't worth trying to post.

MrBuddyLee wrote:Huck looks a little better upon isolated reread--he actually looks to be reasoning things out. But:

1) Huck, what about my play have you found "extremely scummy" this game?

2) What specifically have you found protown about chamber?

3) What has Ether contributed to the finding of scum/what makes you confident she's not scum pretending to be helpful?

4) How has pablito been "better than PJ"? What are your fave pabs insights thus far?

5) Can you qualify your bluesoul vibes?

6) DGB vs. elvis--town v. town, two scum distancing, or town v. scum genuine antagonists? Evidence?

Answering this wasn't as easy as I thought. My notes weren't as complete as a I thought, so I had to peek back at some of the early posts again. If you recall, I did a reread up through page nine or ten when I first posted and then finished up later.

1. I don't think I said extremely scummy - just very scummy

I will say that I'm also predisposed to think you're scum. The whole statistical discussion did hit me the wrong way, but mostly by the way it resolved. I got the feeling that you were putting out a nice big trap that could be used to trip up almost anyone - town included. I guess it could be seen as a town gambit, but I got the feeling that it wasn't really set up to target scum. Post 119 was a little weird to me. You called out OGML (my predecessor) for calling out potential masons, but that comment doesn't serve the town by further putting out in the open. If you really wanted to make a case on me then you didn't need to add that extra point, in place 1 no less. Basically I felt that at the beginning of the game, you were stirring up the pot to get reactions, but the pot stirring did not appear to be solely target scum.

2. Chamber has been protown to me because I've been mostly on board with his thoughts. I also like how he's contributing, although that might not be as pro-town as I'm taking it. He seems to be very thoughtful in his contributions.

3. It could be that Ether is scum pretending to be helpful. I don't really know how to explain why I don't give that much weight.

4. Well, Pablito started off better than PJ, mainly because I really felt that PJ wasn't giving it very much. I didn't really buy PJ's excuse about not really being into the game. I could see that impacting his volume, but what he did put out there didn't seem to be very useful. Pablito has since fallen out of favor with me a little more. I will say that most players - especially those here - will do a pretty good job coming in as a replacement, regardless of alignment. I feel that he's become a lot more complacent in his posting and has thrown some votes around to be part of the game, but the reasoning is pretty soft and give him plenty of wiggle room if he ends up on the lynch or if even just wants to pull his vote.

5. My Bluesoul vibes related directly to post 129. I really don't see scum getting that worked up over being accused like he was. Most scum would be pretty cool about the case and play it down more than fire things up.

6. I'm not feeling that DGB is scum this game. Like Chamber, I've found myself agreeing with some of her more case driven posts - 185 and 239 specifically. I've been a little concerned about her giving up and the fact that she seemed a little more reserved than usual earlier on. I was concerned about how her wagon seemed to sneak up me during my reread and then it stalled pretty quickly. I do like her case on E_K and I'm even more concerned about why that wagon stalled out. I can understand why things slowed down as the new players got their bearings, but it seems like it is almost forgotten by now.

I've devoted a little more time to this response than I planned, so I'm going to need a little time to take a closer look at the recent happenings - especially with Elias.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #658 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:23 am

HackerHuck wrote:I'm even more concerned about why that wagon stalled out.

Yes - why? I have a theory. What's yours?

elvis_knits · Post Post #659 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:22 am

Ether wrote:I don't like Elvis's recent votehops: she picked up some flak for her MBLvote, then stayed quiet for four days and switched to CDB without another word on MBL. (She says there's a parallel to this in CDB's falling behind, but her spat with him doesn't seem worth lurking as scum--plus he later unvotes, so it doesn't work as a sinister way to keep a vote on her anyway. I'm not interested in any part of her case.) Having said that, I'd sort of expect her to be pushing a DGBlynch over a brand new wagon--I don't get why she's abandoned her DGBhate, regardless of alignment. Elvis, what
is
your opinion of DGB?

I've hardly voted for that many people this entire game, so calling my vote change "vote hops" is misleading and manipulative. I think I've been voting MBL, Patrick, and DGB this whole game. I'm trying not to have tunnel-vision though and trying to expand my focus. The way CDb put his vote on me always bothered me since he originally said he didn't see me as scummy, but after reading DGB's case on me, was ready to lynch me. That whole equation is f***ed.

My opinion of DGB. I think she's pretty scummy and would be a good lynch either way. I think she's more helpful to scum even if she's town, so I think people who tried to save her (ahem, MBL) are pretty scummy. I'm not pushing her lynch right now because being a broken record is not fun for me. And I think it's worth it to explore other people. Because I know I'm not always right and I could be wrong about DGB. So it's better for me to express other suspicions and get some conversation going about them.

Ether wrote: My own opinion of DGB keeps oscillating between "shit why am I voting Elvis" and "oh that meta thing."

Did you mean a meta on me or on DGB?

MrBuddyLee · Post Post #660 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:21 am

Huck,

You missed specifics on #2, 3 and 4, which is what I was getting at with my questions to you. Can you please find some specific examples that support your beliefs about chamber, pablito and Ether?

Patrick · Post Post #661 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:40 am

Home internet down, and I have zero access at work (nor library after today). On very quickly skimming I wasn't impressed with elias's attack on DGB, but I'm surprised a wagon came of it. I'll read up as soon as home access is restored - should be friday at the latest.

Ether · Post Post #662 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:10 pm

Post 659, Elvis wrote:I've hardly voted for that many people this entire game, so calling my vote change "vote hops" is misleading and manipulative. I think I've been voting MBL, Patrick, and DGB this whole game. I'm trying not to have tunnel-vision though and trying to expand my focus.

Okay, then. I don't like the way you voted MBL out of nowhere with one of your reasons being his deflecting the DGBwagon, then ignored the flak you picked up on it and hopped to CDB without commenting on MBL again. That is exactly what I already said. (I do think "vote hops" is an accurate term, but I'm perfectly willing to use wordy definitions instead.)

What do you think about my defense of CDB?

I don't like your explanation for why deflecting a DGBtown lynch would be something scum would be more likely to do. Not at all. Not sure I believe the probing new people excuse, but it's not the sort of sentiment I'll attack.

Post 659, Elvis wrote:Did you mean a meta on me or on DGB?

Post 609, Ether wrote:DGB's play doesn't remind me of her play in Normal 70 or PYP3 (mafia in both), though I guess the meta on her can't possibly be that easy.

MBL, what is your opinion of Elvis's recent behavior and lack of commentary on you? You are not making me feel like a part of this game. ._.

ChannelDelibird · Post Post #663 (ISO) » Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:11 pm

Hi guys, I feel sick about not having caught up yet, it's mainly due to a) preparations for uni not giving me much time for big posts and b) I

suck

at reading good players who the whole thing kinda intimidates me a bit. yes, that's kinda appeal-to-emotion-y, but if you look at Stoofer's Mafia 60: Face-to-Face, the last time I was in a game with this calibre playerlist, you'll see I struggled there as well. Yes, I was scum in that game, but failing to keep up with a game is not a tell of mine, it's something that's happened to me as both town and scum once or twice. The majority of evidence of me as scum is when I'm posting as much if not more han usual.

Anyway, just to say that I'm really sorry I've been letting you all down the last couple of weeks, and I am still trying to find the time to really try and bash out a big post and get my head round this game. Please bear with me...

pablito · Post Post #664 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:31 am

DGB, I'm still interested to know what really got you on the Elias train despite little to no mention of your suspicion on him earlier.

MrBuddyLee · Post Post #665 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:52 am

Ether, I don't think elvis really finds me scummy. I'll probably end up on her today, but I think DGB and elias need to be poked at as ell in case one of them cracks.

Why don't you feel like a part of this game, and why is that my responsibility? Or was that a typo?

CDB, just do a read and make notes about what sounds funky. If the same player sounds funky several times then do a PBPA on them and see what else comes out. Don't try to get your head around the whole game at once at this point--it's too big to get started that way.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #666 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:38 am

pablito wrote:DGB, I'm still interested to know what really got you on the Elias train despite little to no mention of your suspicion on him earlier.

I still think elvis is the scummiest player, but the wagon was going nowhere. Elias needed to be pressured after lurking for so long. Did we have much reason to suspect Elias earlier on? He frekkin' wasn't posting AT ALL. I would still rather lynch elvis today, but Elias is a good second choice.

elvis_knits · Post Post #667 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:51 am

Ether wrote:
Post 659, Elvis wrote:I've hardly voted for that many people this entire game, so calling my vote change "vote hops" is misleading and manipulative. I think I've been voting MBL, Patrick, and DGB this whole game. I'm trying not to have tunnel-vision though and trying to expand my focus.
Okay, then. I don't like the way you voted MBL out of nowhere with one of your reasons being his deflecting the DGBwagon, then ignored the flak you picked up on it and hopped to CDB without commenting on MBL again. That is exactly what I already said. (I do think "vote hops" is an accurate term, but I'm perfectly willing to use wordy definitions instead.)

I don't know why you think my vote on MBL comes out of nowhere since I have been fighting with him all day.

I don't really remember what the flak was that I got over that vote. People are entitled to their opinion. If there's something in particular you want me to respond to, please let me know. Sometimes I haven't answered things that I feel have already been answered. You might take that as me ignoring.

What do you think about my defense of CDB?

Yours is this:

(She says there's a parallel to this in CDB's falling behind, but her spat with him doesn't seem worth lurking as scum--plus he later unvotes, so it doesn't work as a sinister way to keep a vote on her anyway. I'm not interested in any part of her case.)

I think it is worth lurking as scum. He replaces into the game and puts me very close to lynch with bad reasoning. And he was called on it. I think that makes him look pretty bad. It's basically the only thing he's done in the game, put a very badly reasoned vote on me. I don't know why you downplay it.

The fact that he later unvoted only strengthens my case because he waited aorund to see if I would get lynched, and then when it looked like it wasn't happening, he backs down.

I don't like your explanation for why deflecting a DGBtown lynch would be something scum would be more likely to do. Not at all. Not sure I believe the probing new people excuse, but it's not the sort of sentiment I'll attack.

You've never noticed that DGB is a free scum buddy?

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #668 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:10 am

DrippingGoofball wrote:
pablito wrote:DGB, I'm still interested to know what really got you on the Elias train despite little to no mention of your suspicion on him earlier.
I still think elvis is the scummiest player, but the wagon was going nowhere. Elias needed to be pressured after lurking for so long. Did we have much reason to suspect Elias earlier on? He frekkin' wasn't posting AT ALL. I would still rather lynch elvis today, but Elias is a good second choice.

So...I'm the second choice for lynch based solely on the fact that I came back from lurking? I mean, lurking is a scumtell to some extent, and it certainly isnt believable when i say that I wasn't lurking as a scum strategy, but is it really enough to make me number 2? Also, you voted me AFTER I came back. If your reason was that I was lurking, why not get a wagon on me while I was gone? If you really believed I was lurking as scum strategy, you should have been pressuring me. This makes no sense.

Elias_the_thief · Post Post #669 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:11 am

Also, FFVII mafia will be up and running after tonight, then I will have time to devote to finishing my Bluesoul read. Hang in there.

pablito · Post Post #670 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:56 pm

MBL, which 'her' were you referring to? I assume e_k according to the context. But there's a few females in this game, so just wanted to make sure.

pablito · Post Post #671 (ISO) » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:06 pm

bird in 555, I just didn't like it because I'm too lazy to read along to reference your exact posts that you're mentioning. It's not that your content is devoid, but the format really doesn't inspire me to read it. Sorry. Also, are you not liking Elias enough to vote him or are you just not inspired by his latest defenses? Because if that's the latter, I kinda have to say that's how I feel about you.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #672 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:43 am

elvis_knits wrote:You've never noticed that DGB is a free scum buddy?

True that, but THAT much?????

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #673 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:50 am

Elias_the_thief wrote:So...I'm the second choice for lynch based solely on the fact that I came back from lurking? I mean, lurking is a scumtell to some extent, and it certainly isnt believable when i say that I wasn't lurking as a scum strategy, but is it really enough to make me number 2? Also, you voted me AFTER I came back. If your reason was that I was lurking, why not get a wagon on me while I was gone? If you really believed I was lurking as scum strategy, you should have been pressuring me. This makes no sense.

Plenty of reasons. A wagon on a totally unresponsive lurker like you were is a pointless waste of time. Now that you're back, after so much lurking, I want to welcome you with my vote. You've gotten a free ride so far, except for some lurker cries from several players, and your lurking history makes you more deserving of pressure to give us the chance of seeing your true colors. Sure, that can mean exaggerating the case on you; but if under pressure, you can satisfy me that you have a townie agenda, I'll be delighted to switch my vote.

Delivering on the promised analysis of bluesoul might help. Might.

elvis_knits · Post Post #674 (ISO) » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:26 am

DrippingGoofball wrote:
elvis_knits wrote:You've never noticed that DGB is a free scum buddy?
True that, but THAT much?????

I love you... I just mean that if you're acting scummy anyway (which most people acknowledge), there doesn't seem to be much sense in keeping you alive on the chance that we're wrong and you *might* be town.