Mini 566: Justice League Mafia Game Over

[Capricious]

This is just a debate for lack of anything better to do right now. I believe the debate has been very helpful in that I've already crossed off a list of likely town. I have already said that mass claim is not happening anyway no matter how much we speak. Scum are using this schism to their advantage e.g.

How did we get from
Capricious wrote:
I've already dropped the mass claim issue.

to
Capricious wrote:
There doesn't have to be a bulletproof town or any sort of role for mass claim to work. We could be all vanillas, all power, or anything in between and mass claim could still be viable.

again?

I unvoted Cap earlier because he finally dropped the massclaim discussion only to find him pushing it again a few pages later. That won't do.

Unvote Khelvaster - still think he's scummy though.
Vote Capricious

If he were truly town and believed both of us were scum, he would not be flip flopping like this, lynching either scum would be good in a town's mind. He is just, again, siding with the majority opinion to get a easy lynch

Top two for scum: roffman, Sierra, probably cicero as a #3.

When I suspect two people of being scum, I will place my vote on the one I am most suspicious of. When the other starts acting even more scummy, I will change my vote to him. I see nothing wrong with me flip flopping my vote like this, as you called it. You make it sound like I think you are both scum, but in fact I agree with the general consensus that only one of you is scum. Therefore, your argument about a townie wanting to lynch either scum is void.

Talking about me agreeing with the general consensus and your arguments being void: where do you get the idea from that I've been siding with the majority this game? When I voted Khelvaster, I was the first to do so. I think I've always given proper explanations in my posts. If anything, I like to think the majority has been siding with me.

I also don't like your scum top 3. Roffman, I can understand. I don't like seeing myself on a list like that ofcourse, but I can see why you would want to put me there after I voted you. Cicero didn't strike me as scum at all: he sparked a lot of discussion which - although the massclaim argument was tiring - I think has helped in the end.

As I said, there is a quantum decrease in scummitude after numero uno.

[Thesp]

basing a defense of someone ENTIRELY on BS wifom is counterporductive as well. Thesp's entire post is craplogic. thats not productive.

I AM TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT IN PAST EXPERIENCE SCUM TEND NOT TO ACT IN A CERTAIN WAY.

I'm going to steal largely from a post I made in Face-To-Face Mafia, because it applies here. You need to be taken to task for this. You are unfairly using the brand WIFOM with little actual basis.

Let's examine the form of the argument here.

ZONEACE: I think Capricious is more likely to be scum because he exhibits A.
Thesp: In my experience, scum are more likely to exhibit ~A (Not-A).
ZONEACE: Thesp, you are using WIFOM, which is scummy.

I think this would be a fair characterization for your attack. If this is the form for WIFOM, WIFOM is useless to the point of absurdity. It is ludicrous to suggest that the defense of Capricious here is WIFOM -

I am using examples of how scum tend to act to suggest that Capricious is acting inconsistently with them.

If this is WIFOM, scumhunting is literally impossible.

What you are doing is taking a disagreement over what scum are

more actually likely to do

, and trying to pin it on me as WIFOM. You are looking for excuses to vote rather than looking for who might be scum, and that is scummy.

On this note, ZONEACE, do you think scum are less likely to lead a push on an agenda that's conceivably openly anti-town, that's unlikely to succeed? I also need to know what you mean by "scummy" (from before), as it helps me understand what you're saying.

[ZONEACE]

well this has been fun but i'll be gone for the weekend and likely without internet access.

[Haschel Cedricson]

basing a defense of someone ENTIRELY on BS wifom is counterporductive as well. Thesp's entire post is craplogic. thats not productive.

Scum are forced to make arguments that they know are not true. If Thesp believes Capricious' logic is consistent with itself, that's not craplogic.

[roffman]

unvote

to stop a tied vote.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Vote Count:

roffman

(1) : Capricious

WhoMe?

(2) : actr, Thesp

Khelvaster

(3) : Haschel Cedricson, ZONEACE, Mirth

Capricious

(3) : WhoMe?, Sierra, Singing Librarian

actr

(1) : ooba

Not Voting:

Khelvaster, roffman

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

~39 hours until deadline. I might consider a one time 72 hour extension if it is agreed to be needed.

[Singing Librarian]

Um, roffman, your unvote has actually *caused* a tied vote... If this were any closer to the deadline, that would make me extremely suspicious indeed, but hopefully you just miscounted the votes since the last vote count.

Haschel Cedricson's post (293) makes a lot of sense to me. I don't want to change my vote just now, but the arguments put forth there (plus the idea that championing the cause quite so obviously as Capricious has done isn't consistent with a scummy desire to avoid flak, though I'm not sure I completely agree with that theory) would certainly make me feel more comfortable with changing my vote should we get closer to the deadline with a continued tie.

Incidentally, it tickled me that the two people voting for WhoMe? are actr and Thesp, two very different players with with usernames that mean much the same thing. Is that just me? And speaking of actr, it looks like he's either given up or has taken lurking to ridiculous extremes.

With regard to an extension - I think it would be a good thing. We could certainly do with an extra few days to reach more of a consensus.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

OK, sudden small change to deadline rule for this day (because I can )

In the event of a tie for most votes, I will default to mod killing actr for not posting for 2 weeks and not picking up his prod (this may even happen if there isn't a tie)

[Mirth]

Everything everywhere boils down to WIFOM, including the existance of the universe. So can we stop with that now?

Haschel: I dont think the point is if the logic is consistent with itself but whether it makes any sense to begin with. One can argue a point consistently but base it on nonsense. Regardless I am rather concerned as to why Thesp is defending Capricious so much and Zoneace wants him dead that badly...

Roffman: do you have anything productive to add to the game? Because you really haven't added anything of value yet.

on the modkill: that would be kind of unfair, wouldn't it?

[Khelvaster]

I would be perfectly fine killing actr, since I believe Capricious is town. Lynching a lurker is fine when no scum presents itself.

[Mirth]

I would be perfectly fine killing actr, since I believe Capricious is town. Lynching a lurker is fine when no scum presents itself.

So does this mean that actr isn't in your scumgroup then?

[Thesp]

Is it worthwhile to have Khelvaster claim at this point? actr should either way.

I will vote to prevent a Capricious lynch.

[Mirth]

I dont think actr will be around to claim...as to Khel...maybe...if the mod is determined to get rid of actr, then probly not. If the mod might listen to majority rules, then yes, he should claim.

[Capricious]

Does the mod's willingness to kill actr imply that actr is town?

[ZONEACE]

i'll be quitting if Actr is modkilled instead of someone being lynched.

[ooba]

It's nice seeing your different views on the mod's statement:

I for one would prefer replacement to a modkill on actr.
Even an extension of the deadline after sctr is replaced would be nice since it would give actr's replacement time to give his views on the game.

“Information is the currency of democracy.”. Hence i do not support khel's statement that lynching a lurker is better when no scum present themselves because actr's posts do not give information either way ..

I'm unsure on which way to lean on khel,capricious - in fact i'm having a hard time deciding since there's a possibility that both of them could also be town and certain forces of evil want us to think otherwise.

i'll be quitting if Actr is modkilled instead of someone being lynched.

Why such a reaction?

Does the mod's willingness to kill actr imply that actr is town?

Mod WIFOM will get us no where

I would like to agree with you here and say that i think Zoneace is town.

Why? I'm more inclined to think the opposite lately.

This was just the vibe i got.

Anyway i think discussion has picked up again and i'd like to ask the mod for a replacement for actr (if possible) and a

one week deadline extension

..

[ZONEACE]

because it would have made everyone's actions today absolutely moot. If a lynch occurs AND actr is modkilled id be ok, but to take the players votes for the day and render them useless simply because we have an inactive player is uncalled for and completely unnecessary and i don't want to play in a game where at the mods will all votes are disregarded, its not fair to the players actually participating. WE didn't choose to kill actr, we chose to kill caricious or khelv.

[Singing Librarian]

I agree that a replacement is far better than a modkill, regardless of whether it happens in addition to or as instead of a lynch. A replacement might have some fresh insight to offer if town, or a slip up to make if scum.

As this will be my last chance to log on before the current deadline (though as I said, an extension would be helpful), I will

unvote

. Nobody has voted or unvoted since the tied vote count, so this will remove the tie.

[Mirth]

Does the mod's willingness to kill actr imply that actr is town?

No. It implies the mod is fed up with him.

Zoneace: so you want 2 kills today instead of one?

Also, I am for extending the deadline to get a replacement We're on page 13 so catching up can't be that bad.

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

It does seem discussion has picked up and most seem to agree on extending.

deadline extended 72 hours to Wed March 26, 12:00 pm cst

and fine, I'll try to find

another

replacement.

[Mirth]

Yay ^_^ Thank you Mr. Lawn Ornament ^_^

[WhoMe?]

OK, i definitely want the lynch to be town pushed rather than mod pushed, so lets avoid a tie.

Khel

is guilty of the same things I'm voting

Capricious

for, and it seems more of you prefer him as a lynchee. I can go along with this, as he was my #2, but this doesn't mean I've changed my mind on

Capricious

unvote vote Khelvaster

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Vote Count:

roffman

(1) : Capricious

WhoMe?

(2) : actr, Thesp

Khelvaster

(4) : Haschel Cedricson, ZONEACE, Mirth, WhoMe?

Capricious

(1) : Sierra

actr

(1) : ooba

Not Voting:

Khelvaster, roffman, Singing Librarian

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

[roffman]

vote Khelvaster

[Mr_Gnome_It_All]

Sethaniel replaces actr