Mini #119: Pirate Mafia - ARRRRRRR!

[silgado106]

Omg. I do agree with you Shelper, two nights in a row it's just too much, they are doing it on purpose and they want to see me lynched. That's just very wrong of them. I do assure you that I did not kill Fuldu though. I was VERY close of protecting him, but I changed my decision in the last minute.

I wrote down everyone's name on a piece of paper, and then I decided to think how mafia would think if they wanted to leave the doc alive again, meaning who would they kill to make me look more suspicious. I started crossing out names, thinking those wouldn't be people they would kill, like for example Shelper, I knew YOU were going to survive. You were the first name I crossed out. I then crossed out Dirge and later STD. The last two were Fuldu and Massive. I was not completely sure which one to protect, so I went with Massive because of something that I want to keep underwraps for a bit. I was really hoping they would try to kill Massive, meaning no one would have died, but I was wrong... again. I did write on the piece of paper my thoughts about the pair of Scum, and some reasons as to why some people wouldn't have been killed at night. If any of you want me to reveal any of that, I will, but I would like to first see everyone post before I say any of my suspicions.

Another thing would be an investigative role. I think at this point it would be useless if they stayed hidden, because it is either lynch right or lose. And yeah Shelper, I wouldn't mind a mass role claim either.

Well that is all for now. I will come back later with what I said I would post.

[massive]

I'll be very interested in seeing what Fuldu's role did.

I'm thankful for the protect, Fuldu. I'm surprised the scum didn't go after me as well. Maybe they thought like you did - maybe they figured I was the one person that you'd protect above all others. Seems logical, unfortunately. But thanks anyways.

I can go along with the mass roleclaim. I'm the Pirate Manning the Cannon, which I guess is supposed to be funny since I'm the female pirate on board. One night kill, with a cannon. It's why I've been adamant that Thoth was the SK, although it's possible that we could both be vigilantes if he was limited like me. But that worries me because I've been counting him as the serial killer the whole time, and the thought that there's another killer to worry about scares me. So I'm sticking with the SK theory.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think I'm OK with how today will turn out. I should have a pretty good chance to take out one scum tonight if we don't lynch one, which will put us in a good spot tomorrow.

I'm glad I saved my kill.

[silgado106]

And that is exactly the reason why I protected you... I saw your hints, and I figured they would have seen them too and try to kill you, but I guess they saw my move as well I really do believe Massive's claim, as he has been pointing to it since almost the beginning.

I think that alliviates things a bit. Now, even if we lynch wrong, we still have a safeguard, but I would much, much rather lynching correctly today.

I think we ought to hear a claim from STD and Dirge though before we can move on.

[Dirge]

I'm Samuel, from Pirates of Penzance.

I'm gonna buy massives claim also.

The person that I'm having the hardest time believing is shelper. Internet pirate is a good claim but technically still a land-lubber.

[Save The Dragons]

I am the Pirate Who Forgot Where His Treasure Is Burried.

Each night I dig someone's grave, looking for my treasure. I investigate dead people. Yep. No clue what it's good for.

N1: Nothing
N2: DoomCow, no luck
N3: Lord G, no luck
N4: Flying Dutchman, mod has yet to send the result

Crap, are those all the role claims?

What does Samuel do?

Ok...my thoughts on this...

Shelper claimed townie...Jose claimed doc...Massive claimed vig...and I got something.

The most obvious choice for mafia is Shelper, which I am inclined to agree with Dirge about the roleclaim.

Other possibilities include, but are not limited, to the following:

Massive claiming vig, while Thoth was a real vig and massive is scum...

Jose being one heck of a lucky doc, or not one at all...

I gotta say for why Jose is still here, there's only five people, and with one protect left, the chances diminish. the mafia are either stupid or risky, and it's probably the latter.

I could also very well be making up my role, but I assure you, it's the truth.

And lastly

Shelper: I was refering to you.

[silgado106]

STD, I also agree with you that the mafia are probably being risky. And I think your claim sounds believable, for now. But we have to wait until we get your results from FD ok?

Dirge, can you elaborate on your role? You haven't told us what you do, if anything. And also I want to ask you, how come you never came out and said that you also had a named role when I asked you guys?

It's obvious two of us are lying. And it's also even more obvious, that only two of us don't have any night choices at night. Does that hold any clues? I don't know. I will wait for Dirge to answer me, as I have to run now.

[shelper]

Shelper: I was refering to you.

Well, obviously i know of myself i'm not scum, so i felt it unnecessary to put it in there.

The ones that strike me as most suspicious at this point are dirge and STD. Dirge got a named role but never said he did when we asked everybody if they did. And STD's claim is just so far out there i need to borrow dead dirge I's eyeglass just to get a clear view. What more can we know when a person dies? I think you just picked up on the fact there was confusion to thoth's actual alignment, and build yourself a nice role around it. Except for the part where you can't actually tell us

anything

, so instead of investigating thoth, who you might have learned the most from and help us out, you went ahead and investigated two different persons. Wouldn't thoth make a much better target?
Massive's claim i believe, and i feel he should definately use it, if we do manage to lynch wrongly today in a last-ditch effort to even the odds.

That's all i have to say at this time, i'll be off to school in 5 minutes, i'll try to respond to STD and dirge's claim of scummyness after school.

(or during, if things work out).

[shelper]

Shelper claimed townie...Jose claimed doc...Massive claimed vig...and I got something.
The most obvious choice for mafia is Shelper, which I am inclined to agree with Dirge about the roleclaim.

Are you saying i might be mafia because i'm the only person without a night choice? Doomcow the generic pirate, Dutchman the rat and wooden Fuldu all had night choices as well?
Surely you're not following that logic, that's just plain silly, could you be a bit clearer?

The person that I'm having the hardest time believing is shelper. Internet pirate is a good claim but technically still a land-lubber.

True, technically, i

am

a landlubber. I'm also a pirate though and will do the best i can to preserve the pirate way of life.

(as long as you don't get any seawater or hacked off limbs on my uber-1337 5ghz 1024RAM laptop with extra turbo fans and 8000 megs of illegal software)

[Save The Dragons]

Are you saying i might be mafia because i'm the only person without a night choice? Doomcow the generic pirate, Dutchman the rat and wooden Fuldu all had night choices as well?
Surely you're not following that logic, that's just plain silly, could you be a bit clearer?

Prove they didn't.

Pirate = probable townie
Pie Rat = possible townie
Wooden Limb Guy = come on, there's gotta be SOMETHING more to that role.

Shelper: I was refering to you.

Well, obviously i know of myself i'm not scum, so i felt it unnecessary to put it in there.

Well, obviously I don't know of yourself. I don't know you're not scum. But I will say that this point is moot and I don't see why I brought it up. I apologize.

The ones that strike me as most suspicious at this point are dirge and STD. Dirge got a named role but never said he did when we asked everybody if they did. And STD's claim is just so far out there i need to borrow dead dirge I's eyeglass just to get a clear view. What more can we know when a person dies? I think you just picked up on the fact there was confusion to thoth's actual alignment, and build yourself a nice role around it. Except for the part where you can't actually tell us

anything

, so instead of investigating thoth, who you might have learned the most from and help us out, you went ahead and investigated two different persons. Wouldn't thoth make a much better target?

How would Thoth make a better target? I get results on dead people for reasons unknown to me.

BTW the results I got on FD: Nothing.

I picked random people, because I didn't see what I could learn.

The most likely mafia claims would probably be something simple. Townie works. So does Doc. Of course, it could be like some wierd WIFOM and they could have obscure claims. These roles are helpful for planning strategy, but it's hard for them to help us too much for finding mafia, on thier own.

But...

Shelper, with your constant attempts to spin the blame in Dirge and my dirrection, as well as some of the things you said, and your impossible-to-prove-until-you're-dead-or-copped townie role, I think you are the best choice for mafia.

[Dirge]

Dirge, can you elaborate on your role? You haven't told us what you do, if anything. And also I want to ask you, how come you never came out and said that you also had a named role when I asked you guys?

I don't do anything.
I didn't remember you asking but I do recall that I said this...

The only trouble with this claim is that it is the first literary type claim. It could be a good scum claim with silgado figuring that the deaths so far have only revealed character created for this game and nothing of outside reference.

I myself was trying to get a response.

Omg. I do agree with you Shelper, two nights in a row it's just too much, they are doing it on purpose and they want to see me lynched. That's just very wrong of them. I do assure you that I did not kill Fuldu though. I was VERY close of protecting him, but I changed my decision in the last minute...

I think that you doth protest too much. I mean really you seem to think that you're more suspicious than anyone else does.

It's obvious two of us are lying.

FYI my top two candidates for scum are silgado and Shelper. Shelper for his role claim...

True, technically, i am a landlubber. I'm also a pirate though and will do the best i can to preserve the pirate way of life. (as long as you don't get any seawater or hacked off limbs on my uber-1337 5ghz 1024RAM laptop with extra turbo fans and 8000 megs of illegal software)

Funny, but I'm not really buying it.
...and silgado for his self-suspicion and fruedian slip. But since there is still the chance that he is a doc I would be unwilling to vote him.

I'll be very interested in seeing what Fuldu's role did.

I don't know what he did but now I bet he sounds like a wind chime when the breeze kicks up.

[silgado106]

I don't believe I made a freudian slip Dirge. It's obvious that two out of the five of us are lying, and unlike Shelper did of excluding himself and being called on it, I included myself as I know some of you might still find me suspicious. And it is very funny how you are saying that I am one of your two choices as being more suspicious, yet you tell me that I am making myself sound more suspicious. I NEVER said I was suspicious, yet I did say that me not dying would make me look more suspicious. When you read my messages, please read them right.

I didn't remember you asking but I do recall that I said this...

Well that's weird, unless you just skim through my posts and don't actually care as to what I say, it was very clear that I asked everyone to say if they had a named role or not, and well I believe two people answered me, yet you don't remember me asking this. Yes, very weird indeed.

[shelper]

Are you saying i might be mafia because i'm the only person without a night choice? Doomcow the generic pirate, Dutchman the rat and wooden Fuldu all had night choices as well?
Surely you're not following that logic, that's just plain silly, could you be a bit clearer?

Prove they didn't.

Pirate = probable townie
Pie Rat = possible townie
Wooden Limb Guy = come on, there's gotta be SOMETHING more to that role.

I don't have to prove they didn't. If i was indeed the only non-power role on the side of the town, it would be grossly overpowered

(unless they all got roles like yours, no offense please )

. I'm sorry i can't be more helpful to the town by indeed having something to do at night, but rat and generic pirate were likely just normal townies, as i am.

How would Thoth make a better target? I get results on dead people for reasons unknown to me

Because there was a big discussion as to wether or not thoth was indeed on the side of the town. We even tried asking the moderator at some point to help us out, but he just called us names and told us to figure it out for ourselves. Now i'm not sure what kind of information you would get, but if i would have been in your shoes, i would have gone for thoth, the one i feel we could have learned the most from.

WIFOM

WIFOM?

your impossible-to-prove-until-you're-dead-or-copped townie role

You haven't gotten all that many results yourself, treasureboy, all you got is a fancy rolename with nothing to back it up with. If future digging gives the same results as your previous's, you're in the same boat you say i am in. A fancy name but with very little to back it up with.

[massive]

WIFOM = Wine In Front Of Me, in a nod to the Princess Bride. What it means (I believe) is that you end up in a circular pattern trying to think and outthink your opponent. In this case, something like this: Sure, Mafia would make easy claims, but what if they WANT us to think they'd make easy claims, so they make hard claims, but what if they WANT us to think they'd make hard claims because no Mafia would make an easy claim, so they make easy claims ...

and ad infinitum ad naseum

I will not vote for silgado. Logic dictates that there has to be a doctor in this game somewhere. I again petition for Thoth to be the SK, and here's this secondary thought beyond my own ability. If Thoth was a vig, why would he kill Dirge night two? There's no reason for that to happen. Thoth is an experienced player and wouldn't just arbitrarily kill. That line of logic means that Thoth did NOT kill on night one, which means we have a doctor. We know drummer didn't block him (he blocked Dirge I on night one) so we must have a doctor, and silgado is our claimed doctor.

The problem is, there's got to be two left. I'm having trouble with Dirge and shelper right now, with StD behind them and only on the fact that he was last to claim. I always try not to pay any attention to the roleclaim of the last person claiming, because they have the ability to not repeat anything that came before them. They risk nothing by going last.

Anyways, back to Dirge and shelper. Dirge's roleclaim, Samuel from Pirates, isn't very helpful one way or the other. Samuel is a pretty non-descript pirate in the opera ... but (as far as I can remember) the only named pirate beyond the King and Frederic, and you couldn't have either of those as roles (because the King is absurd and Frederic isn't really piraty ... more wishy-washy). If the Cap'n would put a Pirates of Penzance character in here, this makes sense ... but it still stands out as odd against the rest of the roles. I guess silgado's Dread Pirate is also a literary character though.

Shelper, on the other hand, has a role that I would expect to actually DO something were it in the game. I don't think Cap'n would take advantage of putting an internet pirate in the game without adding some ability to it.

Hrm. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that roleclaims shouldn't mean anything, and that I need to go back and actually pay attention to what those three are DOING. But I will go on record and say that I'm perfectly willing to kill one of them tonight if we lynch wrong.

[silgado106]

I do have to say that I did find Dirge's claim, Samuel from Pirates of Penzance, a bit suspicious. But I should really have no say on it because my own role name is literary like his, although mine has no source as to where it actually came from. I also do agree with Massive about the last person claiming aspect, since they shouldn't be worried about counter-claiming. And I will also re-read the game as well, seeing we can't judge anyone right now from their roles or their actions.

About Thoth being a Vig/SK, I did have my mind set on Thoth being a Vig, because of the sentence in the death scene, but with you (massive) being a Vig as well, and the very good possibility that he could have targeted Flying Dutchman on the first night, the person I protected, I have to say that I am being convinced that Thoth could have most likely being an SK. Is it probable that he could have tried killing Flying Dutchman on Night 1, guys?

And one more thing, if you look at the numbers, if we lynch wrong today, even if massive kills right tonight, we still lose, because the mafia will be able to kill one more person as well, leaving one townie against one mafia. So I think it is critical that we lynch right today.

[Dirge]

I noticed something that is interesting in shelper's post. He starts out this day casting suspicion on silgado. He points out that it's unbelievable that silgado failed to protect yet again.

Also, it's been two nights now since silgado claimed doc and on both occasions the scum decided they'd rather take out someone else. One night, maybe, but two?

He is pointing out something suspicious here. It's worded in such a way though that he can argue the meaning to be observation rather than suspicion.

silgado missed the suspicion. But, to shelper's good fortune, silgado comes on and agrees...

'yeah, I know it’s like, so incomprehensible'

. silgado also doesn’t list shelper among his top suspects which works to shelper’s advantage. So shelper can change his target and turn his gun on STD hoping that if he pushes hard enough he can get silgado to vote STD (one of silgado's top suspects).

Vote: shelper

[silgado106]

Alright first, after my re-read I noticed the mixup I had with the no lynch, I didn't notice that Dirge had already voted for no lynch on the previous page, so I thought there was still one vote left, but well it doesn't really matter.

As I see it, there's only four possibilities as to scum pairs:

1) Dirge and Shelper
2) Dirge and STD
3) STD and Shelper
4) STD and Dirge

Throughout the whole game all three of them, or their respective predecessor or temp, have voted against some of the others. (NOTE: Someone = Dirge, Big Kahunia = Shelper and Dragon Slayer = STD, just in case I post any quotes from them) These are some of the interactions I picked up on, maybe not all of them though:

DS once, very early, voted for Someone:

I'll unvote:thoth, and vote:silgado. Part of this is shameless bandwaggoning, but it really looks like something is going on here, even if I don't know what it is.

Vote Someone.

This was while suspicions were running high, as it was early. So I have to wonder if two people are working together, would they do that? Just throw a vote like that and a quote and try to get others to pick up the suspiciousness? Or did he really do it to try to distance himself from scum partner?... I really don't know

Another instance was when both STD and Shelper, around the time when STD had recentely replaced DS and Someone had still not gotten replaced, voted for Someone, which picked up into a sort of bandwaggon when FD joined in as well and he got to be one away from getting lynched. And STD unvoted only after Massive said that we should get Someone replaced rather than lynched.

And very shortly after that, both STD and Dirge (II) got on my case and voted for me and almost formed a bandwaggon, which was the one that later on made me role claim.
Then after I role claim, Dirge unvotes first, then STD, then Dirge votes FD, and then STD follows again and votes for FD.

Then as soon as the day comes back with Drummer dead, STD votes for Shelper, I follow as well because his change of heart seemed suspicious which he later said was because I hadn't died which does make some sense, and then of course Dirge gets impatient and votes for Shelper as well. Why is Dirge impatient? Shelper had just talked a few days before, yet Dirge says "Talk to us".

And of course the most recent one, I should say the current one, is the one in which both STD and Dirge are pegged on Shelper being scum. Dirge has also said that I am in his suspicious list, but since I am claiming to be a doc, he says that he doesn't want to vote for me, so he wants to vote for Shelper.

All in all, STD (or someone with his role) has only voted for Dirge (or someone with his role) twice, while Dirge has not voted for STD at all yet.

Also other suspicious things I picked up (these are about Shelper):

Big Kahunia (who had Shelper's role) said this - "As far as Thoth and Dirge situation, maybe it's two pirates looking hard for scum." This was also mentioned by Massive a long time ago. Of course if Big K was scum, he would know that both Thoth and Dirge were just pirates. And another thing

Big K said this - "Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate?" This sounds of course like the Priest, who married DoomCow and prevented him from his non-moral pirate life. But when Big K said this, all we knew was that DoomCow had married "a nice girl" From that I immedeately thought that the mafia might be "nice girls" just like Shelper did as he said so in a post of his own some time ago as well. So was Big K just making an assumption as to the "civilians that emphasize morality"? Or did he know that LG was a Priest since they were scum buddies? And if that is the case, was Shelper trying to rectify Big K's error by later saying that the mafia was most likely "evil wenches"? Arghh... I really might be grasping as straws here, but I think that every little action counts.

NOTE - I don't expect any of you try to defend what your predecessors have said, as I know that is impossible.

So looking at all of those patterns, and looking at these:
Silgado - Dread Pirate Roberts - Doctor
STD - Pirate Who Forgot Where His Treasure Is Buried - Some type of dead player examiner thing
Shelper - Internet Pirate - Nothing/Townie
Massive - Pirate Manning the Cannon - One shot vig
Dirge - Samuel, from Pirates of Penzance - Nothing/Townie

I have to say my top two suspects are Dirge (II) and STD.

Now I would like for EVERYONE to tell us all who are your top TWO suspects, as we have more or less concluded there's two mafias left working together, tell us all your top two, and WHY. And why am I so demanding? Well I don't know, just do it.... please?

Also Dirge, while I was writing this I just saw your latest post, so I am going to comment on it here as well.
I did see Shelper throwing suspicion at me, it's kind of hard to miss those things, we don't all skim posts like you do. But anyways, I did agree because, umm, it's true. I didn't die two nights, it's obvious mafia was trying to throw suspicions against me. Also nice misquoting there. I can almost take it as if you are making fun of me. Anyway, you are right, I didn't put Shelper among my top suspects, mainly because I never posted who my top suspects were! I have no idea which post you are looking at, which I would like for you to point me to, but I never said that Shelper was NOT a suspect and I never said that STD WAS one of my top suspects until this very post. In fact, all three of you, STD, Shelper and yourself were my ONLY suspects until I went back and re-read the thread. Now I really don't know what you are trying to do here (lol that's a joke) by getting Shelper to look like he was trying to make me vote against STD later on. But you have just added more suspicion to yourself in my eyes. I should add another star by your name...

Ok this post is long enough. Yet no vote until everyone talks Also if anyone is confused by any part of it, just ask hehe.

[Dirge]

The reason that I assumed that STD was one of your top suspects is for two reasons.
1. the way you described your decision to protect massive
2. because you were waiting for STD to get a result.

STD, I also agree with you that the mafia are probably being risky. And I think your claim sounds believable, for now. But we have to wait until we get your results from FD ok?

This isn't flat out suspicion but it does seem that you were waiting to give your final thumbs up to his claim. It was this I feel that shelper latched onto hoping to sway you to throw your vote along with him.

[silgado106]

1. I did ask if anyone wanted to hear about my decision, you should have asked me before making assumptions.

This is how I paired people during that night:
1) Fuldu and Shelper
2) Massive and Shelper
3) STD and Dirge
4) Dirge and Shelper

Obviously by looking at these, I knew Shelper just would not die. He's either mafia or town (duh). If he's mafia, he won't kill himself. If he's town and he's killed, it would eliminate every possibility leaving just you and STD. Obviously that was not going to happen. Thus I ruled out Shelper. I then ruled out you and STD from protecting. Maybe because I thought you two were scum, or maybe because I thought you two were just not going to get killed, because as Fuldu said, if the mafia was smart they would kill either Fuldu or Massive, since we know that one of them is not mafia. Therefore I protected one of them, unfortunately the wrong one At the time I was eliminating people not to protect, I knew ANY two of you (Shelper, STD, Massive, Fuldu and yourself) could be scum, so I did not make a Suspects List.

2) Waiting for STD to give his result is something I am sure ANYONE would have done. To do one of two things: try to prove that the claim is absolutely false and therefore he is scum, or try to see how his role works by hoping that his investigation on FD would bring something up.

[Dirge]

1. Even though I didn't ask, and my assumption that others could have seen the same thing may be wrong, it is correct that STD is one of your top suspects.

2. I'm not saying that you're suspicious for waiting. What I'm saying is that shelper saw you hold off on making a final decision and jumped at the opportunity to build a case against STD.

[silgado106]

1. It is correct after I told you, but you assumed so BEFORE I told you, and then took your assumption and used it against Shelper.

2. Umm.. I never even said the word "suspicious" in my reply to your second point. I did say that as everyone most likely might have done, is try to get FD's result to see what conclusion we can come up to about his role. What I am trying to say is that me asking for FD's results shouldn't have made anyone think that I was suspicious of STD. But you seem to think that is the case, and trying to build that against Shelper... again.

[Save The Dragons]

Arg. More on this story later. I'll do this chronologically. This might be a long one, so do what I did. Get some ice cream.

1. Shelper's Post:

(unless they all got roles like yours, no offense please )

None taken...I think it's useless too especially since there's not much else I can do.

your impossible-to-prove-until-you're-dead-or-copped townie role

You haven't gotten all that many results yourself, treasureboy, all you got is a fancy rolename with nothing to back it up with. If future digging gives the same results as your previous's, you're in the same boat you say i am in. A fancy name but with very little to back it up with.

lol, treasureboy.

That's true, but would I made up all this crap? Picking the 4 choices with a role I never comprehended before this game and methodically claiming I have yet to get a result for the last one to buy some time? Why? I'm not that smart if I were, you're right, I probably should have chose Thoth.

2. The last roleclaim

If anyone holds any weight on this, I will smack them. I have a little something called school on the west coast, and I get out really late anyway, and so by the time I'm out it's dinner time on the east coast. Besides, I could have just as easily picked...well...I really don't know, but I'd probably do it a lot simpler than "I investigate dead people."

3. Dirge's vote

The vote for shelper is a little bit harmless for a couple of reasons:

Mafia would need to be online to cooridinate such an execution

Shelper's probably mafia

I would love to vote Shelper, but, there's a small chance he isn't mafia.

There is such a chance, so I think it's a little suspicious to vote without selecting a person most of the town can agree on to actually vote.

4. The looooooooong post

As I see it, there's only four possibilities as to scum pairs:

1) Dirge and Shelper

2) Dirge and STD

3) STD and Shelper

4) STD and Dirge

wtf?

Another instance was when both STD and Shelper, around the time when STD had recentely replaced DS and Someone had still not gotten replaced, voted for Someone, which picked up into a sort of bandwaggon when FD joined in as well and he got to be one away from getting lynched. And STD unvoted only after Massive said that we should get Someone replaced rather than lynched.

Why else would I unvote?

All in all, STD (or someone with his role) has only voted for Dirge (or someone with his role) twice, while Dirge has not voted for STD at all yet.

Maybe he likes me.

Big K said this - "Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate?" This sounds of course like the Priest, who married DoomCow and prevented him from his non-moral pirate life. But when Big K said this, all we knew was that DoomCow had married "a nice girl" From that I immedeately thought that the mafia might be "nice girls" just like Shelper did as he said so in a post of his own some time ago as well. So was Big K just making an assumption as to the "civilians that emphasize morality"? Or did he know that LG was a Priest since they were scum buddies? And if that is the case, was Shelper trying to rectify Big K's error by later saying that the mafia was most likely "evil wenches"? Arghh... I really might be grasping as straws here, but I think that every little action counts.

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

That is, I would be saying that, however:

Excuse me for stating the obvivous, but we had one night kill. DoomCow was "married to a nice girl". I wonder what type of baddies we have? Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate? Nice, good ole girls? etc.. Also, if we have another group, was "married to a nice girl" a mafia trait or a sk trait?

He's hypothesizing. I find it very suspicious you pick up on those words and ignore the context of the phrase. My spanish 200 teacher would kill you (because she said "context of the sentance" a lot). Then again, I have no doubt you could translate the sentance in spanish forward and backwards, so she probably wouldn't. I digress. Digress is pretty wierd if you say it like that. It's like, "LOOK AT ME! I'M DIGRESSING!"

Sorry. I'll stop now.

Now I would like for EVERYONE to tell us all who are your top TWO suspects, as we have more or less concluded there's two mafias left working together, tell us all your top two, and WHY. And why am I so demanding? Well I don't know, just do it.... please?

Gladly. At least...well...it's changing. I know number one though, and if anyone doesn't know my number one choice for scum, they haven't been paying attention.

1. Shelper. He's been very defensive; etc. I don't think I need to get into this.

2. Should I go with the doc who refuses to die or mr. aggressive?

I'm liking Dirge, because he's playing hard, and he's hiding behind me, picking who I'm picking, etc...

And this is where that ARG comes in from the very top (remember?).

Because if Dirge is scum, it doesn't make sense for him to go so heavily after shelper...so probably only one of them are scum.

So there's shelper, Dirge, Sligado, and the Vig that we've pledged as truthful. I'm not saying I'm disbelieving his role claim, but I think it's possible Thoth was a vig and Massive is Maf.

But I'm going to put Massive aside for now, because I do believe him, and all the situations I can think of in my mushed up brain don't add up to him mafia.

But I'd say Dirge, and I have more in my very last point:

5. Arguments 1 and 2

(These refer to the recent running argument between Dirge and Silgado)

(I don't mean winning as in winning the argument, I mean winning = more common sense logic)

1. Dirge...Silgado point wins out over your one...you just assumed. It doesn't matter if his suspicion was for me, it's nothing unless you knew it or had an inkling. There was nothing to give such a thing.

2. At first, Silgado was winning with waiting for the result is what anyone would have done.

Then Dirge rebounds, making his point that Shelper had extra time to attack me.

I don't think I can go on...I'm getting a little tired. I apologize. I only had a little left to go. I hope I didn't bore you.

[Dirge]

1. Dirge...Silgado point wins out over your one...you just assumed. It doesn't matter if his suspicion was for me, it's nothing unless you knew it or had an inkling. There was nothing to give such a thing.

My assumption was based on what I observed when silgado described how he picked who to protect. This is where I alluded to my "inkling".

The reason that I assumed that STD was one of your top suspects is for two reasons.
1. the way you described your decision to protect massive

This is the passage in question.

I wrote down everyone's name on a piece of paper, and then I decided to think how mafia would think if they wanted to leave the doc alive again, meaning who would they kill to make me look more suspicious. I started crossing out names, thinking those wouldn't be people they would kill, like for example Shelper, I knew YOU were going to survive. You were the first name I crossed out. I then crossed out Dirge and later STD. The last two were Fuldu and Massive.

[shelper]

Man oh man, sleep in late one day and find a thread the size of an essay when you wake up. Allright, let's see what we have here.

Also, it's been two nights now since silgado claimed doc and on both occasions the scum decided they'd rather take out someone else. One night, maybe, but two?

He is pointing out something suspicious here. It's worded in such a way though that he can argue the meaning to be observation rather than suspicion.

silgado missed the suspicion. But, to shelper's good fortune, silgado comes on and agrees... 'yeah, I know it’s like, so incomprehensible'. silgado also doesn’t list shelper among his top suspects which works to shelper’s advantage. So shelper can change his target and turn his gun on STD hoping that if he pushes hard enough he can get silgado to vote STD (one of silgado's top suspects).

I can't argue the way you interpret my posts, it was both observation and suspicion at the time i wrote it. I wasn't attempting to rally players together so they can all blindly follow me in whomever i see fit to lynch.

Now I would like for EVERYONE to tell us all who are your top TWO suspects

1. Dirge the second. For his almost continual attack on me.
2. Save the Dragons. Fishy roleclaim, and a gut.

Very close these two, they changed places many times during previews but in the end i find dirge's persistence to see me lynched just a bit scummier than STD's role.

It was this I feel that shelper latched onto hoping to sway you to throw your vote along with him.

What I'm saying is that shelper saw you hold off on making a final decision and jumped at the opportunity to build a case against STD

I didn't latch on to anything, i saw STD post a role i didn't buy and responded to it. Because i posted it after a player who was also suspicious of it automatically makes me latching?

Shelper. He's been very defensive

That's because other players have been very

offensive

.

No vote for now, although STD is right in that it would take some precise coordinating on the mafia's part to both vote before the townie vote can unvote, i'm not willing to take that chance.

[silgado106]

[start of STD response]

2. The last roleclaim

If anyone holds any weight on this, I will smack them. I have a little something called school on the west coast, and I get out really late anyway, and so by the time I'm out it's dinner time on the east coast. Besides, I could have just as easily picked...well...I really don't know, but I'd probably do it a lot simpler than "I investigate dead people."

You can say that you could have picked something simpler all you want, but that still doesn't justify anything. You have mentioned it yourself, WIFOM, I am not even going to take this point seriously.

As I see it, there's only four possibilities as to scum pairs:

1) Dirge and Shelper
2) Dirge and STD
3) STD and Shelper
4) STD and Dirge

wtf?

Haha, you can tell I was doing that part in a hurry. I had the three names written down in a piece of paper, and I just paired them up with the other two, obviously not realizing that they only make 3 possibilities, not 4. Excuse my error ::oops::

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

I don't think you understood what I said. First of all, I know what he meant by "evil wenches". That was Shelper after he came back and Big K wasn't replacing him anymore. How am I grasping straws only at what Shelper said, but not at what Big K said... and if I have something with the Big K thing, then why do you say this afterwards?

He's hypothesizing. I find it very suspicious you pick up on those words and ignore the context of the phrase. My spanish 200 teacher would kill you (because she said "context of the sentance" a lot). Then again, I have no doubt you could translate the sentance in spanish forward and backwards, so she probably wouldn't. I digress. Digress is pretty wierd if you say it like that. It's like, "LOOK AT ME! I'M DIGRESSING!"

Sorry. I'll stop now.

So I first have something, but then I am suspicious because I picked up on "those words"....

1. Shelper. He's been very defensive; etc. I don't think I need to get into this.

Well yeah I would like you to get into this, because I not only see him being defensive. I see you, dirge and even myself being defensive. Is that all you really have against him? Seems rather weak to be your top choice.

2. Should I go with the doc who refuses to die or mr. aggressive?

I'm liking Dirge, because he's playing hard, and he's hiding behind me, picking who I'm picking, etc...

[sarcasm]Yes, every night when I am about to get killed, I beg and plea and refuse to let those scumbags kill me. It works, you should try it.[/sarcasm]
Anyway, yes Dirge is playing hard, he has been playing hard since the very beginning of this game, remember the Dirge/Thoth thing? Remember the Dirge/Me thing? But wait a sec, the first Dirge (the one in Dirge/Thoth) was actually a cop. Ummm. I think that rules out your "playing hard". And is he really hiding behind you? Or just relying on you? And vice versa? Because I do remember, in some of the points I wrote, that you were the one that actually followed him. Ummm. I think that rules out your second point against Dirge. So now really, what is the real reason you think Dirge is scum?

Because if Dirge is scum, it doesn't make sense for him to go so heavily after shelper...so probably only one of them are scum.

So there's shelper, Dirge, Sligado, and the Vig that we've pledged as truthful. I'm not saying I'm disbelieving his role claim, but I think it's possible Thoth was a vig and Massive is Maf.

But I'm going to put Massive aside for now, because I do believe him, and all the situations I can think of in my mushed up brain don't add up to him mafia.

But I'd say Dirge, and I have more in my very last point:

Exactly, it wouldn't really make sense if the scum would go against scum this late in the game, it would make them lose one partner, making it way harder for them to win, when all they have to do is make an innocent sound like scum, get him lynched, and win the game.
It is true that Massive could be Mafia if Thoth was actually a vig. But would he really be preparing himself for his roleclaim, ever since Thoth died?? He kept repeating over and over that Thoth was a SK, he even said I was suspicious because I refused to believe that Thoth was a Vig. It sounds to me like he (Massive) has been a Vig throughout the whole game. And if he isn't, then he was EXTREMELY smart by preparing for such a role claim, not even knowing how things would turn out later on in the game.
So then, going by your own suspicions here, if Dirge and Shelper aren't scum together, Massive is not scum, and I know I am not, that can only mean that the scum couple is... yourself and Dirge.

2. At first, Silgado was winning with waiting for the result is what anyone would have done.
Then Dirge rebounds, making his point that Shelper had extra time to attack me.

Of course, you couldn't finish off your defensive post with a little hint of making Shelper suspicious.
[End of STD response]

[Start of Dirge response]

My assumption was based on what I observed when silgado described how he picked who to protect. This is where I alluded to my "inkling".

Please, do not say you alluded to your "inkling" because you never did such a thing in your original post. You took your assumptions about my post to try to build something against Shelper, but you really had nothing, as my post contained no such Suspicious List.
And yes, I know what passage you were referring to, there was no other post you could have drawn up conclusion from like you did. Please tell me where in that post it says that Shelper is not in my suspicious list and where it says that STD is my suspicious list. Can't you just admit that you made a big assumption, and there's really nothing there in my post, yet you picked it apart to try to convince me that Shelper was using it to force me to vote against STD?
I think that was your goal with you original post. You were hoping that I would agree with you, since Shelper was forcing me to vote against STD, and then start looking at Shelper rather than you and STD, and I would eventually vote for Shelper, while STD comes on and votes for Shelper as well.
[End of Dirge response]

[Start of Shelper response]
Yes Shelper, although STD and Dirge are my top two, you could very well still be mafia and I am still looking at you as well.

1. Dirge the second. For his almost continual attack on me.
2. Save the Dragons. Fishy roleclaim, and a gut.

Well yeah, Dirge is attacking you... now. Before this, he wasn't really attacking you. What were your suspicions on him BEFORE he was attacking you?
I do agree sort of with the fishy roleclaim, but let's not use role claims to pick our suspects, as mentioned by Massive. So is there anything else you have on STD?

I didn't latch on to anything, i saw STD post a role i didn't buy and responded to it. Because i posted it after a player who was also suspicious of it automatically makes me latching?

I never said I was suspicious of his role. In fact I said that it sounded believable. Don't go around putting words in my mouth.

[End of Shelper response]

Sorry, I promise this will be my last looooong post, it is just too much stuff to point out! I think I will now wait until Massive posts, I would love to hear what he has to say after re-reading the thread. Maybe he picked up better things than I did. Also Dirge, you never pointed out your top two, did you skim through my post yet again?

[shelper]

Well yeah, Dirge is attacking you... now. Before this, he wasn't really attacking you. What were your suspicions on him BEFORE he was attacking you?
I do agree sort of with the fishy roleclaim, but let's not use role claims to pick our suspects, as mentioned by Massive. So is there anything else you have on STD?

Process of elimination. Yesterday there were three votes on me, with four to lynch. Massive and fuldu could have gotten me lynched right there and then, but didn't, so that ruled both of them out. So whoever is scum was riding that bandwagon, its passengers being Silgado, Dirge and STD. I ruled you out at that time as you claimed doc, so that left dirge and STD. My main two suspects.
You were and still are not fully cleared in my mind, right now your roleclaim as doc holds more water than theirs, and as such, you are lower on the scale. Had you asked for my list of scummy people, highest first, you would have been third, with massive coming up last.

I didn't latch on to anything, i saw STD post a role i didn't buy and responded to it. Because i posted it after a player who was also suspicious of it automatically makes me latching?

I never said I was suspicious of his role. In fact I said that it sounded believable. Don't go around putting words in my mouth.

Allright, my apalogies. That post was in response to dirge's accusation that i was latching and rather than debate with him wether or not you were indeed suspicious of STD at that point i decided to just go along with his logic, faulty or not, and point out i wasn't latching.

Also, for the record, something way back i missed earlier.

He points out that it's unbelievable that silgado failed to protect yet again.

I didn't point out it was unbelievable he didn't manage to protect, i pointed out it's unbelievable the scum still didn't decide to take him out.