Newbie 952 - Murder on Newbie Street! (GAME OVER)

[Llamarble]

@Exemption: could you clarify this, I'm not sure what you mean.

ahh thats interesting, i always thought scum would concentrate more on that sort of thing.
It could be the extra pressure I suppose though.

A couple things so nobody can claim not to have known any better:
Do not discuss or speculate about town power roles. This is referred to as rolefishing and helps the mafia find and kill them. It is typically best not to claim any role (including Vanilla Townie) until you are at "L-1" (lynch minus one, indicating only one more vote is needed to lynch you). Also, the longer our day goes and the more everyone talks, the more information we have to work with. Thus if a person is at (L-1) it looks very scummy to drop the final vote (or "hammer") if there is still a good amount of time before the deadline. Certainly don't drop the hammer without waiting for the person to claim a role and then waiting for some more discussion after that. Give people warning that you're planning to and make sure the town has reached something of a consensus.

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I've decided to start keeping vote counts by editing in the current count at the top of each page. Huzzah!

D1 Vote Count #1

Damon_Gant (1):

smashbro

Tactical Tomato (1):

Exemption

smashbro (1):

Llamarble

SilentoBoborachi (1):

Sworddancer9034

Not voting (5): ManfredvonKarma, SilentoBoborachi, Tactical Tomato, Damon_Gant, Haylen

[Exemption]

I mean that i thought scum would concentrate more on what they are posting (as they are trying to act town), however what you said could also be true because of the extra presure that is upon the scum so they might make minor silp ups like that.

So basically i am not sure wether i believe making a that making a minor mistake like that is a scumtell.

Yer what Llamarble said is important, remember it.

[ManfredvonKarma]

I mean that i thought scum would concentrate more on what they are posting (as they are trying to act town), however what you said could also be true because of the extra presure that is upon the scum so they might make minor silp ups like that.

It's not so much the pressure on the scum, but the fact that most of what they are doing is based upon lies. When you aren't rooted in absolute fact, you become more likely to not remember what your lie was, and contradict yourself.

So basically i am not sure wether i believe making a that making a minor mistake like that is a scumtell.

The general rule of thumb should be that if something is a mistake, it is a null tell (because nobody's perfect), but if something is a lie or a misconstruction of the facts, it is a scum tell, as a townie should have no motive to lie while making a case against someone (there is, of course, motivation to lie to cover up having a power role, though). A lot of it will probably come down to whether or not your gut suggests that a player made a mistake, or is flat out lying.

[Exemption]

Yer that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for that =]

[SilentoBoborachi]

What if your gut has a stomach ache?

[Llamarble]

Exemption said:

I play mafia quite alot in real life and have played one game on this site.

I prefer to play mafia generally as I like to have the advantage of being an informed minority. Also I think it makes you play more attention to the game as making mistakes is alot less forgiving.

and i'll answer my last question as well. I prefer to play online as it is more thought out and tactical in my opinion.

How come you switched away from an "I" voice when talking about paying more attention to the game as mafia? That seems like something that would be specifically true for you as opposed to other people. Also why two separate posts for your questions and your vote/answers to them?

Sorry I'm nitpicking over small details, but there isn't a ton of information to work with yet.

[Haylen]

Hi, guys. Welcome to MafiaScum! And possibly your first game here. My name's Haylen, I will answer to any variation of that. I'm one of your IC's(Inexperienced Challenged player...political correctness and all that) and it's my job to show you the ropes and to make sure you understand what is going on. You can ask me any questions you have during the game, unless it is about your role, in which case you must send a PM with your question to Reck (the mod), neither of us bite so don't feel you can't approach us about things. I completely understand that your first game may be a daunting experience...hell, I remember my first game, ended up getting night killed on Night One, and most of you will be in the same boat regarding experience level but you're all here to learn. If you feel as though you haven't done well, don't be put out, just learn from it and improve. It is not cool to insult players for poor logic, anyone caught doing so will receive a post specially made for them in which I barate you...in a kind way. Don't take attacks on your logic personally, or lynches. They happen, that's what Mafia is all about.

Aswell as being a helper here, I am also a player in the game, even though this is a newbie game, I will not be toning down my play, I'll be treating it like a game from any of the other forums otherwise you wont be able to learn and grow as players. Just because I'm the an IC, it doesn't mean you can't attack my logic. I will NEVER lie in my answers when questions asked about game mechanics ect. That would completely defeat the purpose of my being an IC here. If I don't answer your questions quick enough, which is extremely unlikely, I believe the SE's are Damon_Grant and Smashbro which means they are Semi Experienced playesr and may also be able to help.

Anyway, read the rules Reck has decided to use (warning: other mods may decide to use different variations of these rules, but the fundamentals are all the same,so don't get confused). When this game is over, and you're all excited about joining games in other forums, ask yourselves if you truly feel ready for it...there's nothing worse than going into a mini normal game (or any other non road to rome game, for that matter) and realising halfway through it that you aren't ready.

And have fun!!!

(by the way, I will be taking notes all through the game, because I am stupidly organised and a perfectionist, so I will be able to tell you what was good, what went wrong and how to improve, when the game has ended.)

Back to player mode

Big warning: I like to multipost, meaning I will post more than once in a row. Usually because I have just remembered something I wanted to say in the post before but forgot. I will spare you my megaposts, no player should ever have to deal with them. Also, my grammar is generally terrible because I'm thinking of writing down what I want to say.

First thing's first.

How we vote and unvote: Reck says in his rules that we have to bold votes and unvotes. This is how we do that:

Code: Select all

 [b] Vote: playername [/b] or [b] Unvote: playername [/b]

Another important part of the game is quoting, you will find that you want to quote another player and some point or another. We do that like this:

Code: Select all

 [quote="playername"] what they said [/quote]

A little bit more complicated is putting in a link to another post as it requires multiple steps, you might want to use this sometimes when refering to the whole of a post, rather than quoting the whole thing. Here you go:

1) In the post you want to link, click on the little white symbol to the left of the word 'Posted' at the top of the post.
2) Once you have done this, copy and paste the url from your internet's address bar.
3) you will need to do this:

Code: Select all

 [url=pasted url from address bar] post number (you can use any word here, but I dont want to be confusing) [/url]

An example of that this. Here is a link to post 1 .

That was a link to Reck post 0, it has all the rules in it, and as a code, looked like this:

Code: Select all

 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2256372#2256372] post 1 [/url]

Hope that last one wasn't too confusing, if it was just ask

Anyway, enjoy yourselves!

~Hayl~

Hi Reck!

[Haylen]

Haylen's Mafia Glossery

L-1, L-2, L-3: This refers to how many votes on a person until they are lynched. For example, if I had 3 votes and Michel had 4 votes, because it is 5 votes to lynch, I would be at L-2 and Michel would be at L-1.

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Lylo: Means lynch or lose. During lylo if the town doesn't lynch a mafia member, then they have automatically lost. Typical lylo situations are 2 townies and 1 scum or 3 townies and 2 scum. If the number of mafia is equal to the number of town at any time, then the mafia have won.

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Mylo: Mislynch and lose: This is actually a more difficult one to explain. Mylo is where the only thing the town can do safely is to no lynch. You should only ever lynch in a mylo situation when a cop has gotten a guilty on another player. Examples of mylo situations are when there are 3 town and 1 mafia or 6 town and 2 mafia. If the town mislynches during mylo then it is an automatic mafia victory, UNLESS the town get lucky and the have a doc in the game that targets the same person the mafia want to kill.

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OMGUS: Stands for 'Oh my gosh, you suck'. It's a type of vote where the voter only votes for who they voted for because they had voted for them first. I tend to stretch the term to people who attack other people because they attacked them first. Everybody suffers from a bit of OMGUS Syndrome, we can't really help but feel the person who is voting for us is scum. A lot of people find this type of votes scummy, but I don't believe they are.

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WIFOM: Wine in front of me, it's basically circular logic. An example of WIFOM would be me telling you lot to go and look at my previous games because I never play like this as town. WIFOM or Circular logic arguments don't hold very much credibility in games.

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FoS: Finger of Suspicion, you can give people one of these in place of a vote if you don't find them scummy enough to vote them but you still find them suspicious. A more suspicious person would warrant a HoS or Hand of Suspicion.

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IGMEOY: I've got my eye on you, generally means they don't find the person scummy but they are going to watch them carefully in the future to make sure they don't do anything scummy then.

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Hammer: The word for the last vote on a player that causes a lynch. Today that would be the 5th vote.

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QFT: Quote for truth. If you want to be lazy and not type something out yourself and someone else has already written it, just quote their post and type 'QFT' under it.

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EBWOP: Edit By Way of Post. Quoting your previous post and changing it because you made a coding error or something.

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RVS: The Random Voting Stage. That's what we're doing now! It's an icebreaker, votes during this stage arent serious.

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Appeal to Emotion: When a player says or does something in order to play with the other players emotions in order to not be lynched. An example: 'If you lynch me, the town will lose.' Scumminess on this varies from player to player. With me, it's completely normal to do as town or scum due to my bipolar, but with a player who is generally more...stable...it's a scumtell.

[Haylen]

Oh, I almost forgot, you can isolate a players post. I was going to show you with a screenie and diagrams but photobucket's being an ass.

To Iso

At the bottom of the page it says display posts from previous, in the middle dropdown box choose the player and press go and you'll have all of their posts and only their posts.

To watch the topic

Right underneath the message box that I'm typing in and that you'll be tying it, it has 'new topic' and 'post reply'. further underneath that it has 'watch this topic for replies' click that and you'll be able to find the thread again by going right up to the top of the page in the same area where you can read your PM's, there is a link saying 'Watched Topics' the thread will be saved in there and you can see if anyone has replied.

The wiki

The wiki is like that deceptive friend who tries to manipulate you into doing what it wants and ends up getting you into trouble. A lot of the information on their is outdated, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't still be read. Link to the wiki is underneath 'watched topics'. A group of people are trying to update the wiki with proper info - some of it is right, the rest isnt.

vote SilentoBoborachi

Bandwagon, go go go!

[Haylen]

hey just some random questions to get this started
everyone answer please.
-which do you prefer to play? scum or town
-how much experiance do you have?
-would you say real life mafia is better or forum based mafia?

I prefer random voting to random questions.

I prefer playing as scum, I have a few issues with analysing players still because I take things from a purely psychological view. (i'm a psychology student).

I've been on the site since April Fools Day 2009, 1 yr and 1 month. I really need to update my wiki, hang on, I'll drag up how many games I've played. I have 36 completed games on site, another game I replaced out of to mod it when the mod flaked, im currently in 6 games, I don't know whether I'm alive in another (Mind Screw Mafia, it's confusing), I've modded 6 games (most of which were newbies) and am currently modding another two newbie games.

The last question is inapplicable, I've never played F2F mafia.

Oddly enough, I still try to use the newbie card.

[Llamarble]

@Haylen:

What do you make of the exchange between MVK and Tomato? And why wagon against Silent as opposed to anyone else?

[Exemption]

Exemption said:

I play mafia quite alot in real life and have played one game on this site.

I prefer to play mafia generally as I like to have the advantage of being an informed minority. Also I think it makes you play more attention to the game as making mistakes is alot less forgiving.

and i'll answer my last question as well. I prefer to play online as it is more thought out and tactical in my opinion.

How come you switched away from an "I" voice when talking about paying more attention to the game as mafia? That seems like something that would be specifically true for you as opposed to other people. Also why two separate posts for your questions and your vote/answers to them?

Sorry I'm nitpicking over small details, but there isn't a ton of information to work with yet.

Haha yer well nit picking is probably how far you have to go to find the scum.

To be honest I don't really know, I was up all night watching the election results so it's all a tab blurry. I think it was because I feel that this applies to anyone who plays scum not just me. Also I am dyslexic so I tend to have less than average grammar (not that you need to give me any sympathy for that though)

@haylen

Nice some long posts to read, don't worry about doing this in future I'm perfectly happy reading essays.

I prefer random voting to random questions.

I'm still not sure, so I tend to do both at the moment

The last question is inapplicable, I've never played F2F mafia.

Oddly enough, I still try to use the newbie card.

Really? You should sometime , it really is quite interesting seeing how people cope with lying under pressure. (or maybe that's just me)

[quote="Haylen"
(by the way, I will be taking notes all through the game, because I am stupidly organised and a perfectionist, so I will be able to tell you what was good, what went wrong and how to improve, when the game has ended.) [/quote]

awesome =] that would be nice of you thanks. Buddying up is great =]

I'm not organised unfortunately, so I tend to spend a while back reading through peoples posts alot

[xRECKONERx]

Don't listen to Haylen.

I definitely bite.

[ManfredvonKarma]

Don't listen to Haylen.

I definitely bite.

How hard?

Vote: Haylen

for attempting to kill us all under that wall of

text

information.

[Sworddancer9034]

I prefer a mix between both RVS and RQS.

I like everyone who nitpicks in RVS, I think it's a good way to start.

I don't like how Damon_Gant hasn't even posted yet. It's been nearly 24 hours since the start of the game. He's a SE, he should know better than that.

unvote vote Damon_Gant

@Llamarble: Don't apolize for the cases you make against others. It kinda takes the "oomph" out of them if you know what I mean.

[SilentoBoborachi]

I prefer a mix between both RVS and RQS.

I like everyone who nitpicks in RVS, I think it's a good way to start.

I don't like how Damon_Gant hasn't even posted yet. It's been nearly 24 hours since the start of the game. He's a SE, he should know better than that.

unvote vote Damon_Gant

From what I have been reading, this could be a policy of lurking until the last moment of the day, to give people less information to make judgements on. Or he/she could simply be busy.

Better to be paranoid, and since people are jumping on my bandwagon I'm going to jump on someone else's.

vote Damon_Gant

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

I wouldn't start to pin people for lurking quite yet, but it's something we should watch out for. I've had problems with lurkers before, so on Day 1, and sometimes Day 2, I would support lynch all lurkers.

As for the Tactical Tomato and ManfredvonKarma, it seems like Tactical Tomato is being a bit jumpy, and ready to get on any case to start. Could be eager townie, could be eager scum. Nothin to really put my finger on yet, I'll be watching him, but other than that, nothing that important yet.

[Llamarble]

I'm excited about this game, it feels like we've got a pretty strong town. I especially like that nobody is getting themselves into trouble yet; the games I've seen the town lose were because of townies making serious blunders on early days and getting lynched for it because even though people had town reads on them their play was just too anti-town to justify letting them live. I read through one of Damon's completed games and he didn't post a ton but he did identify both mafia correctly on days 1 and 2 and was generally a very constructive townsperson, so while I do expect him to post more I'm not in favor of policy lynching him and we certainly shouldn't push him to L-1 before he posts.

My 3 most suspicious players so far:
Smashbro for mainly just answering questions and pointing out things like the need for an avatar. These actions are both very easy for mafia to not give off tells doing while trying to look like protown contributors. I also found it scummy that he expressed some, but not enthusiastic support for lynching lurkers (which right now would mean Damon). That seems like it could be scum encouraging any lynch of any town player, but trying not to overcommit. The same goes for his lukewarm attitude toward Tactical Tomato.

Exemption for moving his vote to Tactical Tomato after Tomato made some slightly awkward accusations toward MVK. To me this came off as wanting to have his vote on a town player who might be more likely to get himself lynched. He also seems to be buddying up at least a little bit to a fair number of people, whereas I would expect a town player to act a little more suspicious toward everyone. He hasn't done much scumhunting yet and has mostly answered questions and been friendly, despite being one of the most active players. Was noncommittal when discussing my random vote for Smash (note that the reason I gave was intended to be a joke, as Smash couldn't really be expected to know the gender of someone who hadn't posted yet), suggesting he might be following the same "scum encouraging the lynch of any town player" approach that I think Smash might be using. He also didn't leave his vote on smash long enough for it to get a reaction, which I felt was a bit wishy washy.

MVK for somewhat odd random voting; he decided to wait awhile before dropping a random vote, which I couldn't really see a reason for given that he used the same sort of joke justification as a first-post random vote would. He's given a fair amount of useful advice/explanation, but I haven't seen any real scumhunting from him. I did approve of his not going after Tomato and simply defending, since I felt Tomato's attack looked like pro-town scumhunting, but I would have played that in a similar manner regardless of alignment. Overall I never really bought his explanation for not voting in his first post and don't understand the idea behind his later vote other than to be seen as consistent.

[Tactical Tomato]

Sorry for lurking, I was busy with school for a while and I'm a bit tired to play fully.
Therefore, I'll get on the wagon.

vote: Damon_Gant

[ManfredvonKarma]

If I counted right, there are now 4 votes on Damon_Gant, putting him at L-1.

I would strongly suggest that we wait for a some sort of post from him before anyone hammers. I'm not sure about this wagon in the first place, though. It's entirely possible that he doesn't even know that the game started. After all, the thread's barely been open for one day.

[Llamarble]

Somebody should unvote him! There's no reason at all to put somebody at L-1 (the point at which people are expected to reveal their role) without so much as hearing from him once. Especially within not much more than 24 hours of the game start! I'd be very surprised if there isn't at least one scum on his wagon. I'm also surprised MvK's wording wasn't stronger. If he actually isn't contributing, we should replace him out rather than wasting a lynch...

[Sworddancer9034]

unvote

I thinking voting for someone who hasn't posted might give them more of a sense of urge to get into the fray.

Fos Tactical Tomato

for putting Damon at L_1.

Please avoid putting someone at L-1 so early in the day. Scum might hammer, and that's no good.

[Sworddancer9034]

@Silent and Tomato: Why is it that you two felt like you should get on a wagon? Also, Silent, why did you feel like there was a wagon on you? There was only one vote on you! Is it because Haylen said that he wanted a wagon on you? If so, what made you think that was actually happening? Why is that since you felt there was a wagon on you that you had to get on another wagon yourself?

[Exemption]

Sorry for lurking, I was busy with school for a while and I'm a bit tired to play fully.
Therefore, I'll get on the wagon.

vote: Damon_Gant

To me this sounds very much like your saying. 'I need to get on this bandwagon so we can lynch early but haven't got a reason'

Looking at the time difference in your to messages tells me that they are not quite even a day apart. This can't be described as lurking this early in the game if you ask me.

@Llamarble:
yer I do buddy up a bit too much, but then that's just how I am; I am still suspicious of them.
I moved my vote quickly because I saw someone saying something I thought was a bit scummy. So I decided to put pressure on him instead of my Random vote target

[Sworddancer9034]

I'm excited about this game, it feels like we've got a pretty strong town. I especially like that nobody is getting themselves into trouble yet; the games I've seen the town lose were because of townies making serious blunders on early days and getting lynched for it because even though people had town reads on them their play was just too anti-town to justify letting them live. I read through one of Damon's completed games and he didn't post a ton but he did identify both mafia correctly on days 1 and 2 and was generally a very constructive townsperson, so while I do expect him to post more I'm not in favor of policy lynching him and we certainly shouldn't push him to L-1 before he posts.

Wait, what do you mean it "feels like we have a strong town?" Does that mean you know who the townies are? Who are you refering to when you say "we?"