Mini 956: The Quayside (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

Day 1, Vote Count #2

With twelve alive, it takes

7

votes to lynch. Deadline is schedueled for 7:00AM GMT, April 26th <Countdown>.

Goatrevolt

-

3

(Patrick, popsofctown, Elmo)

SerialClergyman

-

3

(Ectomancer, Jahudo, McGriddle)

popsofctown

-

1

(Goatrevolt)

iamausername

-

1

(SerialClergyman)

Elmo

-

1

(Incognito)

RedCoyote

-

1

(iamausername)

Ectomancer

-

1

(NabakovNabakov)

Not voting

-

1

(RedCoyote)

[Incognito]

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

When I'm scum, I think I'm less likely to try to 'clear' people as town.

Incidentally, I'm not a fan of your question. Do you always have a tendency to try to assert that you're town in your opening post, or do you only have a habit of doing this when you're scum?

[iamausername]

Incidentally, I'm not a fan of your question. Do you always have a tendency to try to assert that you're town in your opening post, or do you only have a habit of doing this when you're scum?

Neither.

Do you dislike the question in itself, or just the fact that I used the word 'we'?

[RedCoyote]

Looking forward to this game.

---

Kill before end of page.

Did you want to elaborate on this?

---

Lynch that which you don't understand. It's a time honored human tradition.

I was seriously thinking that exact same thing. I just chalked it up to being an American.

---

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

Hmm... I think I have more of an agenda as scum, as broad as that sounds.

And the vote is okay since I think we were on opposite sides the last game we were in together.

---

What is THIS supposed to mean? Does this mean that you discussed with one of your scum buddies at the beginning of the game and told him you would vote for him?

I don't understand your conclusion. Could you elaborate some? Is this supposed to be a joke?

[popsofctown]

I modded you in that Open game that I created. Weak M.D.

Oh yes. We hypoclaimed as town in that game and it was very advantageous. It's always good to hypoclaim in games like that. To hypoclaim by twilight at least.
Twilight.

I hate that book, Twilight.

Vote: Twilight

.


Oh I got on such a rant. As for this game, Patrick looks suspicious. Whoever starts pointing the most baseless fingers in the RVS looks fishy to me. But I hope I'm not omgussing.

[Incognito]

@iamausername:

Yeah, it was mostly the "we" stuff. It just reminded me of something similar that I've seen from you as scum before from way back in your very first game on here where you seemed to try to assert that you're town by asking everyone about their role preference and the like.

As for this game, Patrick looks suspicious. Whoever starts pointing the most baseless fingers in the RVS looks fishy to me. But I hope I'm not omgussing.

Why do you believe scum would be more likely to take the RVS seriously than town would?

[Patrick]

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

I've got over this to some degree, but I suspect I still play more passively as scum.

Did you want to elaborate on this?

Not really.

@iamausername: Yeah, it was mostly the "we" stuff. It just reminded me of something similar that I've seen from you as scum before from way back in your very first game on here where you seemed to try to assert that you're town by asking everyone about their role preference and the like.

I think in the newbie game iamusername's scumtell was something like coming out of the gates saying, "I was really hoping for a scum role, but I'll be giving my all to my protown role lawlawl". I didn't get the same feeling from his question here.

pops: care to elaborate? I assume you must be referring to my second post, which was neither baseless nor even really an accusation. Why a joke vote on Twilight if you find me suspicious?

[Jahudo]

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

I <3 bussing.

Other than that, I don't really know, apparantly I am a bad scum though so this being an experienced game, you would probably know by the end of the day whether I was scum or not lol.

Is that part of your playstyle that you mention in Post 22? I don't think I've played with you before.

Also, your post count seems to indicate you're not a newbie so why would you put down your play?

[Goatrevolt]

I mean yeah, I don't have any reason to think he's scum,

Why this qualifier?

Because he's scum.

I'd vote goat but I'm a little uncool with the domestic violence schtick that I don't understand.

You're uncool with my actions, therefore you won't vote me?

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

As scum I tend to strategically lurk from time to time (close to deadlines, when I want to get town opinions before throwing out my own). I tend to be more aggressive and controlling as town, and more laid back with calmer, logical posts as scum.

Vote: Goatrevolt

Kill before end of page.

Page 2 and I'm still alive. Thug life. For those worried about spousal abuse I don't actually have a wife.

----------------------

On a more serious note, I think pops is scum. My vote wasn't random. Something about his first post rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like he was trying too hard to appear casual/joking and it came off as forced. Then he tried to joke when I called him scum, but it felt forced again, and hell, he didn't deny it.

Since then, there is his rampant use of qualifiers for each of his actions. There is "I mean, yeah, I don't have any reason to think he's scum" which Patrick called out, and then again the "But I hope I'm not omgussing" from his most recent post. The twilight bit felt forced as well. I haven't even taken into account him not bothering to even answer Patrick's question but instead throwing suspicion on him without backing. And he jumped off my wagon for no reason once it picked up, which is also interesting.

All of his posts suggest self-consciousness of the way he is coming off to the rest of the players. If he thought Patrick was scum, why wouldn't he just vote Patrick? Instead he throws suspicion on him but at the same time notes that it could be construed as OMGUS, which suggests that he is taking note of how others might perceive his actions.

Kill before the end of this page????

[Goatrevolt]

A question for all; if you were scum, how would we tell?

I <3 bussing.

No disputes here. The only time I've seen you as scum you bussed both of your other scum buddies.

[SerialClergyman]

You're uncool with my actions, therefore you won't vote me?

Just didn't understand whether it was a joke or GD meme or what. Didn't want to get involved without knowing the backstory.

Incognito has seemed genuine in his hunting.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm pretty sure pops was just demonstrating that I had asked him a loaded question but I decided to run with it as a joke. If it's a GD meme, I'm not aware of it.

No thoughts on pops, SC?

[Ectomancer]

What exactly is this supposed to be, and why was it such an important follow up to your first post? To paraphrase: I talk out of my butt alot. You can safely ignore those instances.

What?

Ecto - you've been brought undone by your own reasoning. If your paraphrase is correct, why aren't you taking my advice?

Allow me to introduce myself. I am not easily deflected, nor am I likely to take any advice that is not my own.
I have only a narrow band of leniency for a lack of clarity. You'll want to pick yours up. I also have a narrow band of leniency for making excuses for yourself before there is even a cause to have an excuse.

On those lines, I agree with Goat's gut.

unvote, vote pops

[popsofctown]

I mentioned omgussing because I was genuinely unsure of my own ability to respond to suspicions indicated towards me. Was it really silly to cast suspicion on me like that, or does it only seem silly because I know I'm not actually scum?

Answers the other question, why I didn't vote for him. I hear constantly from people in seemingly every game I play that I ought to be voting whoever I'm talking about, but I move my vote as I please. I'm actually somewhat slower with my vote as town than as scum, I'm trying to work on that (slowing down my voting when I get a scum pm, that is).

@Goatrevolt: Are you still beating your wife is a universal meme, it's kind of old and outdated and dead now but my dad still likes it.

@Incognito: I think scum are more likely to take RVS seriously because there really on the average isn't anything there for the first few pages. Town sit around with the mentality "when something scummy happens, i'll move and accelerate the game".
Scum sit around with the mentality "when something happens, I'll move and accelerate the game". This is kind of a chunk of the universal tendency for scum to point fingers at something that isn't a valid tell, but it's a special case because scum are even more restless in the RVS stage, they can't even give thumbsup/thumbsdown to any real scumhunting.

I'm not nuking future games for iamausername's question.

[Incognito]

@Incognito: I think scum are more likely to take RVS seriously because there really on the average isn't anything there for the first few pages. Town sit around with the mentality "when something scummy happens, i'll move and accelerate the game".
Scum sit around with the mentality "when something happens, I'll move and accelerate the game".

What's the difference between these two mentalities? They say exactly the same thing. Or did you mean to say something else?

In my experience, I've seen the mentality you're putting forth as the "town mentality" in certain instances, sure, but also in my experience I've found that it's usually

town

that tries to pick on minor nuances in the hopes of bringing the scum out of their comfort zone to try to push the game from something that's jokey to something that's a bit more serious. I've also seen plenty of towns crumble by taking the exact mindset that you're suggesting a townie should take here. Sitting on our hands and HOPING that scum make some slip or HOPING that someone does something scummy doesn't typically lead to anything. I'd argue that's the type of scenario that's a scum's dream come true.

This is kind of a chunk of the universal tendency for scum to point fingers at something that isn't a valid tell, but it's a special case because scum are even more restless in the RVS stage, they can't even give thumbsup/thumbsdown to any real scumhunting.

If you think what Patrick called you out on wasn't a valid tell, then why not provide some kind of an answer to his question anyway or at least acknowledge it?

-~-~

I don't really like Goatrevolt's certainty about popsofctown's alignment on this page, but I don't really see it as malicious at this point.

SerialClergyman's post 35 stuck out to me too because it didn't really address some of the major things that have been brought up on this page. SC, any other thoughts on anyone else so far aside from me?

@Patrick:

Yeah, I was going from memory, so you could be right. I figured it was worth commenting on anyway.

[NabakovNabakov]

Oh I got on such a rant. As for this game, Patrick looks suspicious. Whoever starts pointing the most baseless fingers in the RVS looks fishy to me. But I hope I'm not omgussing.

Isn't that the first guy to post (who is typically the first one to vote). What could be more baseless than that?

How do you feel about Elmo?

On a more serious note, I think pops is scum. My vote wasn't random. Something about his first post rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like he was trying too hard to appear casual/joking and it came off as forced. Then he tried to joke when I called him scum, but it felt forced again, and hell, he didn't deny it.

You mean like how your wife beating joke was forced? RL D1 of D1 of an invitational (basically) is a tough crowd, and while I have reasons for looking at pops, it's not because he's a bad comedian.

/agree with Incognito. Non-rookie scum aren't jumping at the chance to increase their profile during RVS.

[popsofctown]

I didn't answer the question because I hate explaining jokes. Do you know anyone that likes explaining jokes?

The point of the qualifier is to emphasize how I want to "lynch 5cuM" (moral) instead of lynch scum. Without the qualifier, you can miss the joke thinking i'm somehow linking his domestic violence to his alignment in this game (a valid avenue for humor, but not the one I felt like using).

/agree with Incognito. Non-rookie scum aren't jumping at the chance to increase their profile during RVS.

This is WIFOM. If people think like me, then it is a profile raise to point fingers in RVS, and he won't do it. If they don't think like me, they can do it and get away with it. But he definitely wouldn't do it if we knew we'd catch him doing it right? silliness.

[NabakovNabakov]

/agree with Incognito. Non-rookie scum aren't jumping at the chance to increase their profile during RVS.

This is WIFOM. If people think like me, then it is a profile raise to point fingers in RVS, and he won't do it. If they don't think like me, they can do it and get away with it. But he definitely wouldn't do it if we knew we'd catch him doing it right? silliness.

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. The issue of whether or not pointing fingers will raise profiles (which is an issue dependent on

your

perception of the game) is valid, but it isn't really WIFOM. The WIFOM comes in the question of whether or not profile-raising is a good tactic. Insofar as it's widely considered to be a bad more for scum, they shouldn't do it, but that always leaves the door open for doing it anyway in an attempt to appear town.

Can you answer my two questions now?

[popsofctown]

Saying he wouldn't do it because it'd make him look suspicious is WIFOM. Maybe that's what he wants you to think. It's WIFOM. I confuddled myself yes but WIFOM is confusing matters.

You asked three questions, only one isn't rhetorical, and I missed it.

I feel like I have no info on Elmo's alignment. Seems like something I'd do as town so based on gut town. (his only post, that is.)

[Patrick]

popsofctown's play is weird, not definitively scummy. I don't really have a problem with his answers in 38, as I can p much empathise with the first two paragraphs. This is an odd stance for someone with that many posts:

@Incognito: I think scum are more likely to take RVS seriously because there really on the average isn't anything there for the first few pages. Town sit around with the mentality "when something scummy happens, i'll move and accelerate the game".
Scum sit around with the mentality "when something happens, I'll move and accelerate the game". This is kind of a chunk of the universal tendency for scum to point fingers at something that isn't a valid tell, but it's a special case because scum are even more restless in the RVS stage, they can't even give thumbsup/thumbsdown to any real scumhunting.

Can you link to one past game (or MD thread) where you've supported this?

I feel like I have no info on Elmo's alignment. Seems like something I'd do as town so based on gut town. (his only post, that is.)

More likely to do that as town than as scum?

[Goatrevolt]

I mentioned omgussing because I was genuinely unsure of my own ability to respond to suspicions indicated towards me. Was it really silly to cast suspicion on me like that, or does it only seem silly because I know I'm not actually scum?

All Patrick did was ask you a question. His vote was on me. You "reacted" to his question by calling him suspicious for pointing the most baseless finger day 1. He didn't point a finger, he asked a question. Why didn't you bother to answer his question...something you still haven't done?

Answers the other question, why I didn't vote for him. I hear constantly from people in seemingly every game I play that I ought to be voting whoever I'm talking about, but I move my vote as I please. I'm actually somewhat slower with my vote as town than as scum, I'm trying to work on that (slowing down my voting when I get a scum pm, that is).

@Incognito: I think scum are more likely to take RVS seriously because there really on the average isn't anything there for the first few pages. Town sit around with the mentality "when something scummy happens, i'll move and accelerate the game".
Scum sit around with the mentality "when something happens, I'll move and accelerate the game". This is kind of a chunk of the universal tendency for scum to point fingers at something that isn't a valid tell, but it's a special case because scum are even more restless in the RVS stage, they can't even give thumbsup/thumbsdown to any real scumhunting.

These are both consistent. If you are more trigger happy as scum in the RVS, then you might be inclined to find scum to be naturally more trigger happy in the RVS. I think you're wrong, but that's not the point.

Here's one question I have, though. I have easily been the most aggressive player so far and you could conceivably consider me "restless in the RVS stage." Why haven't you gone after me?

@Goatrevolt: Are you still beating your wife is a universal meme, it's kind of old and outdated and dead now but my dad still likes it.

Ok. Nothing else in my post was worth addressing?

[Goatrevolt]

I don't really like Goatrevolt's certainty about popsofctown's alignment on this page, but I don't really see it as malicious at this point.

I'm not certain about his alignment, I'm just going after what I find most suspicious. Specifically what do you find bothersome about it? If not malicious, then what do you dislike?

SerialClergyman's post 35 stuck out to me too because it didn't really address some of the major things that have been brought up on this page. SC, any other thoughts on anyone else so far aside from me?

Agreed 100%. He read and responded to the portion of my post directed at him in 4 minutes time. That suggests he was "camping" the thread. If he was just checking in from the last time he had posted, he would have had to read like 10 posts from his last post and also type up a response to mine which would probably take longer than 4 minutes, and that's if he timed it perfectly too.

The part that bothers me most is that he didn't react at all to my 3 paragraphs on pops, only picking out the part that pertained to him and responding to it. Then 7 minutes later I asked him about his thoughts on pops and no further response.

[Goatrevolt]

On a more serious note, I think pops is scum. My vote wasn't random. Something about his first post rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like he was trying too hard to appear casual/joking and it came off as forced. Then he tried to joke when I called him scum, but it felt forced again, and hell, he didn't deny it.

You mean like how your wife beating joke was forced? RL D1 of D1 of an invitational (basically) is a tough crowd, and while I have reasons for looking at pops, it's not because he's a bad comedian.

Meh. Meh. I have reasons for looking at pops beyond him being "a bad comedian" as well. Why not bother to address that? You pulled out a small part of my post, said you don't buy it, said you have differing reasons to be suspicious of the same player I am, and then ignored the rest of my post where I also gave additional reasoning. Weird...

I didn't answer the question because I hate explaining jokes. Do you know anyone that likes explaining jokes?

Ummmm...what? The question was 'why did you tack the qualifier that you didn't believe I was scum onto your joke vote?' Considering that qualifier had nothing to do with the actual joke, I really don't buy this response at all.

Why did you care about making sure we knew that you were joking? What were you worried of happening?

[NabakovNabakov]

On a more serious note, I think pops is scum. My vote wasn't random. Something about his first post rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like he was trying too hard to appear casual/joking and it came off as forced. Then he tried to joke when I called him scum, but it felt forced again, and hell, he didn't deny it.

You mean like how your wife beating joke was forced? RL D1 of D1 of an invitational (basically) is a tough crowd, and while I have reasons for looking at pops, it's not because he's a bad comedian.

Meh. Meh. I have reasons for looking at pops beyond him being "a bad comedian" as well. Why not bother to address that? You pulled out a small part of my post, said you don't buy it, said you have differing reasons to be suspicious of the same player I am, and then ignored the rest of my post where I also gave additional reasoning. Weird...

But that's what started this. You made the second post of the game, and you've claimed that the vote in that post wasn't random. All you would have had to go on at that point was pops' bad joke. Additionally, the post you're getting on his case about now can also be read entirely as a bad joke. The "I don't know if he's scum" part is essential to set up the "but he beats his wife" part. The joke, as a continuation of the "do you still beat your wife?" method of identifying a loaded question, emphasizes the absurdity of basing a vote on anything other than a scum read. By extension, it accuses Goatrevolt's loaded question and vote of being absurd. It is thus more akin to Ecto's paraphrase of SC than it is to pops' later qualifications about Patrick-suspicion, which I certainly do find to be suspicious.

So... now you know someone who likes explaining jokes.

[popsofctown]

On a more serious note, I think pops is scum. My vote wasn't random. Something about his first post rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like he was trying too hard to appear casual/joking and it came off as forced. Then he tried to joke when I called him scum, but it felt forced again, and hell, he didn't deny it.

You mean like how your wife beating joke was forced? RL D1 of D1 of an invitational (basically) is a tough crowd, and while I have reasons for looking at pops, it's not because he's a bad comedian.

Meh. Meh. I have reasons for looking at pops beyond him being "a bad comedian" as well. Why not bother to address that? You pulled out a small part of my post, said you don't buy it, said you have differing reasons to be suspicious of the same player I am, and then ignored the rest of my post where I also gave additional reasoning. Weird...

I didn't answer the question because I hate explaining jokes. Do you know anyone that likes explaining jokes?

Ummmm...what? The question was 'why did you tack the qualifier that you didn't believe I was scum onto your joke vote?' Considering that qualifier had nothing to do with the actual joke, I really don't buy this response at all.

Why did you care about making sure we knew that you were joking? What were you worried of happening?

THE QUALIFIER IS PART OF THE JOKE. Geez. Is this going to be another brickwall game? I don't think I can handle another brickwall game. I really don't.

I already explained how that clause is integral to the joke. That might also be why it, durhur, isn't separated by something like a period or semicolon.

@Incognito: Think I forgot to point out a misunderstanding a while ago, you saw two quotes "wait for something scummy to happen then move" and "wait for something to happen then move" and you thought they looked exactly the same. You missed the word scummy, omitted from one of the cases. I mentioned this in the mental draft of my post but it didn't hit the page.

More likely to do that as town than as scum?

Yep. If it were me. All Towntells Are Weak though, but I'm definitely not leaning scum on it like some may choose to.

Can you link to one past game (or MD thread) where you've supported this?

Gimme sec.