Newbie 928 (Game Over)

[Steely Gaze]

/confirm.

Ah, hello everyone. Looks like I've been stolen into my first replacement...before the game even fully begins! Although, judging from appearances, this looks to be a fast-paced game, which suits me just fine.

To answer your question, boberz, I have played exactly one game of Mafia before, and it was on this site. No face-to-face Mafia so far. In my first game, I was a townie and was NKed on the first night. As the game is still ongoing, I'm not sure if posting a link is allowed or not, but will be happy to provide one if it is allowed and if it is asked of me.

I'd like to get one thing out of the way right now. I post long messages most times, so if I annoy anyone with "walls-of-text" I apologize.

[boberz]

Cheers hohum.

What do people make of this game so far, lots to comment on already.

[Steely Gaze]

Well, I'd like to ask a question of you, boberz.

So to clarify after this: we cannot kill off vinegar, we shouldnt kill off cove, could perhaps kill off chrono. What people make of me i dont know.

Why (disregarding the fact that the game hasn't officially started yet) would we be unable to lynch Vinegar? Because he clumsily tried to plant some kind of power role seed? I disagree entirely. Yes, his slip of the tongue may have been a simple and harmless error, or it could be newbie scum who accidentally gave something away. You say you would be more considerate of a read like if it occurred in a normal game, but I think that makes little sense. After all, who would be more likely to make a basic slip? A player who has played numerous games of forum Mafia or a player who has never played forum Mafia?

He explained himself as well as he possibly could, albeit after posting twice without a sound excuse, but no one is "safe" as of now, and all aspects should be considered.

[boberz]

He idiotically claimed a PR. He would not have done this as scum for two reasons. Firstly it is silly because it makes them easier to catch out later.
Secondly the mindset of scum would not be to fake claim after one little bit of suspicion is thrown upon them.

He made the slip as a PR not as mafia. but I agree it was a newbie slip.

I will refuse to lynch of vinegar unless something dramatic changes. He is immensly safe. He can only now be a PR.

---

Btw there will be no need for random votes when the day begins (the whole reason I kicked off so aggressively) so I will go in hard on anyone who tries to use randomness as a defence.

---

Btw you can provide a link but you cannot talk of the game that is still running. I will not look at the link untill nearer the end when I want to do some kind of meta.

---

Now why would an IC be a noshow??? because he got as card he didnt like? Now to research the IC that never was and see if he has form for this as any character.

That said I am relatively safe on Steely Gaze as well now.

I am still looking at chrono, 1/ didnt seem to like me trying to scumhunt. 2/ Didnt seem to provide any scumhunting himself. 3/ Completely misrepped my post. 4/ and continues to believe I am tunnelling (despite being the only player to evaluate everyone so far) and pushing for a lynch when I am doint no such thing.

A nice four part case on him as well.

[boberz]

He flaked out as mafia once before because of nerves. But to be honest I dont think an IC would be nervous walking into a newbie game, so null tell I believe.

[Steely Gaze]

He idiotically claimed a PR. He would not have done this as scum for two reasons. Firstly it is silly because it makes them easier to catch out later.
Secondly the mindset of scum would not be to fake claim after one little bit of suspicion is thrown upon them.

He made the slip as a PR not as mafia. but I agree it was a newbie slip.

I will refuse to lynch of vinegar unless something dramatic changes. He is immensly safe. He can only now be a PR.

He actually claimed not to claim. He said "if he were", not that he was. Which, to me, seems to imply he had come up with a viable reason a townie would need to act, and chose to explain this as justification after the slip, hoping it would be excused. You seem incredibly certain he's a power role after a foolish slip on page 1.

The way I see it, he could be a Vanilla Townie who got immensely nervous in his first forum game when pressured over a perceived slip; he could also be scum who made a slip and is trying to cover; or he could actually be a PR who successfully painted a nice target on his back for any scum to axe in the night. Either way, I'm troubled by your immediate defense of him.

Also, saying that there's no need for random votes seems a bit presumptuous. I agree that RVS seems rather useless right now since people are talking (some of us anyway), but to declare it null and void? There's no line in the sand saying when RVS should end, neither is there a firm rule saying that random votes are above attack and can be capably played off as truly "random".

[Steely Gaze]

I don't put a lot of stock in meta reads at this stage in my Mafia development, but for those that do, I post the link to my first (and aside from this game, only) game on the site.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13465

I will not, however, discuss it as it is an ongoing game, as boberz suggested.

[VinegarEater]

Chrono, your post towards Boberz vaguely resembled an attack to me. Boberz is semi-defensive. To alleviate this, please tell us what you think of him?
Nessarae, what do you think of the current state of affairs?


Thanks for being helpful, Boberz. Yeah, I'm going to have to still say that it looked like that was what you were doing, but the clarification here helps out.

Boberz, I'll just let you know that you seemed slightly scummish before that post, due to your instant suspicion, but after clarifying that you weren't looking for a quick lynch, you seem neutral-safe.

I'd consider starting a bandwagon on Chrono to start pressure, but he doesn't seem to be a big concern yet. Let me post the order of who I would vote for.

Cove
Chrono
Boberz
Kthxbye
Nessarae
Me(d'uh)

Bear in mind that I wouldn't hammer any of these, it's mostly to apply pressure.

I don't suspect any of you that much. Cove is top mostly for OMGUS reasons; he seemed to take a slightly offensive stance towards me, and I don't have a really good reason to vote anyone in particular yet (If anyone has any reasoning to give me, feel free).

Chrono, mainly for Boberz' reasoning, because it could be useful to see how he reacts under pressure.

Boberz, for Chrono's reasoning. To give the illusion of fairness, I figure we may as well reverse the above circumstance. Who knows what will happen?

Kthxbye isn't posting yet, but I won't lynch lurkers. We have no information from them and the game hasn't even started. If we lynched them, we'd have a high chance of a mislynch and we would miss our chance to pick off a mafia.

Nessarae for exactly the same reason.

I, because I have a deep-set self loathing and think I will understand myself better at -4. Or something.

Also, welcome Ren and Steely; good to be playing against you.

[VinegarEater]

Oops. My mistake. I forgot to hit the "next page button". . . Uh, imagine that at the end of page one?

[VinegarEater]

Boberz- you're accusing people again. I'm sorry, but you seem to be grasping at straws. Why are you so eager to appear to be hunting scum?
Steely- thanks for looking at it in a semi-unbiased sense; I appreciate this.


Ok, after reading the part of the topic that I missed, I'll clarify myself:

I didn't mean to imply that I was a power role, as that would get me night-killed.

I didn't mean to imply that I was mafia (obviously), as that would get me lynched.

Now, if I'm a power role, then I do want to imply that I'm a townie, because that will prevent me from getting killed in daytime. You're going to have to trust me in saying that I'm not one, because I can't provide any evidence.

If I'm a townie, I don't want to imply that I'm a townie, because that would decrease the chance I get NK'ed, and thus increase the chance that other people get NK'ed. If I'm a townie, this would mean increasing the chance that the power roles get NK'ed.


The only reason I would imply anything is if I was a power role intending to be townie, and that isn't what I intended. I was trying to make a neutral claim and make sure that nobody suspected me because of my minor noobtell.

Sorry for accidental triple post; had I checked if there was a second page. . . d'oh!

[boberz]

I have never seen scum hunting as a scum tell before??????

I am going in hard on people, I am going to find the scum in this game.

I am unfortuantly fairly certain that vinegar is a PR, explain how a noobtown/noobscum would arrive at the mindset, of 'I might say that if I were a PR'.

I put stock in meta reads, I helped find scum in one of my games through it. More to the point because I was the only one to bother doing it.

I am neither tunnelling or clutching at straws. I am presenting clear cases, I have had 4 points on both the people I have accused.

I think there is an optimum start and finish time for RVS, that is it should never occur. I have demonstrated how it need not occur, we now have two three cases on three different people, and I am sure people could make a case on me if they wished. That would be four cases in two pages, a lot better than the normal RVS rubbish.

When would you choose to lynch lurkers Vinegar ever?

[VinegarEater]

You're not making a whole lot of sense at the moment, Boberz.

I read Mafia games in my spare time, so I know a little bit more than most noobs do.

You can't really find a scumtell in someone who hasn't posted at all in the entire game (Or at least, as far as I know)

I'm confused as to why you don't support random votes, yet you accuse random people. You demonstrate evidence that rarely makes sense.

Scumhunting isn't a scumtell, but you're making me very confused all the same.

Why are you so eager to believe I'm a power role? This looks like rolefishing to me, but I'm not sure (When we get an IC in here, I'll probably ask him).

You're quick to get on the defensive, yes?

Tell me this information as directly as you can:

What evidence do you have, to believe that the people you accuse of being scum, are scum?

Why are you so certain that I'm a power role?

Why do you place the ability to make a case, or do you, above charisma or logic?

Why are you acting so paranoid?

Thank you.

[Ren]

/Confirm

Hi everyone this will be our second game although we had to replace out of our first game(909) due to a camping trip.

Something you should know about us is that we have disasociative identity disorder so it might help to think of us as a hydra even though we are only one person.

One thing I have had a problem with, in my experience, is considerable town inactivity. It is part of the reasons we lost my one game here. I like being very active, so what I would like to know from everybody is:

- What activity level are you expecting for yourself? Are you going to be active enough to keep up daily conversation?

Well we can't always get on the computer but we will try to be active when we can. Should be able to get on at least some every day though.

[VinegarEater]

Just making sure:

By this you mean that you have drastically different mindsets at different times?

[nessarae56]

@VinegarEater
what do i think right now? well not really much. I think people are just try to pin point who might be the scum. It is really to soon to tell who is or who might be the scum. I'm just waitng till more people to post and for the game to really begin. I hope that helps.

[VinegarEater]

Thanks for responding.

Yeah, we're a little ahead of ourselves.

So sue us? =)

[boberz]

I can find scumtells in virtually every post, it is about working out which ones are really scumtells and which ones could be written by scum. At the moment I have nobody I would like to lynch but I have two or three I would like to vote for and attack.

I do not attack random people, I have made two attacks and both have had reason behind them.

I think you are a PR because of #22 where you are even considering PR, and using it as a defensive point. Not only that you claim to be reluctant to say it. If you are less noobish than you claim then you would not have made that post.

I am not rolefishing, in fact I am a tad annoyed you revealed yourself so early. Of course I still could be wrong but I doubt it. The first person to mention a PR in a nebie game is often a PR.

I do not think I have been defensive or paranoid, where have I been so. In fact twice I have asked for people to make a case on me. I have made two cases myself how on earth does that make me suspicious.

I do not place the ability to make a case above logic. I do not rate charisma, that is easy to fake.

---

You ask for my reasons for my reasons.

My case on chrono (unchanged from when I last posted it) is here:
1/ He didnt seem to like me trying to scumhunt, scum hunting is beneficial for town.
2/ Didnt seem to provide any scumhunting himself, scumhunting is beneficial for town.
3/ Completely misrepped my first post.
4/ He continues to believe I am tunnelling (despite being the only player to evaluate everyone so far) and says I am pushing for a lynch when I am doing no such thing.

four solid reasons, which do you want explaining vinegar???

[Chronopie]

A thread re-read (Not that there's much to read ) has forced to to assume that boberz is either a) Over-zealous, or b) scum

a)Over-zealous: the original point, which appears to have generated so much discussion, was a

one line post

, which boberz proceeded to over analyse, to the point where he was ready to vote (non-random).

b)Scum: jumping on my 'chill' statement as buddying, considering that the initial post that prompted the 'chill' statement was an extensive (and misrepping) analysis of a

one line post

--

The whole Vinegar topic appears to have been hasty as well.
Boberz appears to be willing to accept one badly worded post as a PR claim?!? Assuming it is a PR claim, we have three scenarios

a) Boberz needs to reconsider, either Vinegar is a PR, in which case we'd need more analysis, or Vinegar is a scum, in which case it's a fake claim. Either way, do not dismiss atm.

b)Boberz is scum, and knows that Vinegar is not scum, so dismisses Vinegar, bc he has already found a better mislynch. and may NK vinegar N1

c)Boberz and vinegar are scumbuddies, and it's a poorly made PR fakeclaim, either for the purpose of distancing, or for counter-claiming.

If it's not a PR claim, then Boberz is being too hasty. either as town

tunnelling

in on a couple of targets, or scum planning a mislynch.

--

@ren so third person writing is going to be the norm? that could cause trouble when it comes to scumhunting.

[Chronopie]

considering I hadn't posted again at the point of boberz last post, of course the case is going to be unchanged... duh.

[Ren]

Just making sure:

By this you mean that you have drastically different mindsets at different times?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociati ... y_disorder
Oops we spelled it wrong.

The link explains our disorder.

[VinegarEater]

Boberz- do you still suspect Chrono?

I think it's actually plural first person, Chrono.

A counterclaim isn't going to happen, because of reasons I listed above, so if he's rolefishing then nothing's going to happen.

What I think Boberz is going to do is mercilessly insist I'm a PR until it become accepted despite incredibly poor evidence. I implore everyone to remember that repetition is not the same as reasoning.

With any luck, my having said that will keep him from doing it. . .

I'm tempted to say that he's bungling his attacks really badly, but after all, he raised some heads and my being a PR is now an accepted possibility.

I'm going to state one last time that I'm not trying to claim myself as any role, and that Boberz is drastically misinterpreting what I said.

Remember that scumhunting through heavy attacks on everybody is likely to cause confusion; confusion is anti-town.

[Ren]

@ren so third person writing is going to be the norm? that could cause trouble when it comes to scumhunting.

Correct third person writing is our norm. How could it cause trouble with scumhunting?

[Chronopie]

@ren: Will you(multiple) reread the thread regularly?

Also that's going to be bloody annoying for scumhunting, considering the wiki article:

at least two personalities routinely take control of the individual's behavior with an associated memory loss that goes beyond normal forgetfulness

As I interpret this (and I did read the whole article) this means that various personalties may have entirely different viewpoints. As such this may mean that one personality will view a certain action as scummy, and will play a certain way, while another will have an entirely different play style?

--

@Vinegar: actually 'We' (and associated terminology) is a second person narrative style, now that I think about it. The rolefishing could still expose a real PR. although for any CC at this point would be beyond silly. If he truly believes that you are a PR, and is mafia (or isn't and convinces actually mafia), expect an NK.

I would still call it bungling.

You're looking fairly safe to me atm. (not PR, just town)

--

Where's cove gone?

[VinegarEater]

He might think you're referring to an unknown buddy when you just mean yourselves.

Oh, by the way, I noticed this (Hurrah for not reading thoroughly the first time)

considering I hadn't posted again at the point of boberz last post, of course the case is going to be unchanged... duh.

When I was really young, I wanted to learn new words, but I wanted to hear everything that the person was speaking with had to say. Thus

VinegarEater : What's a viking?
Other : A pirate
VinegarEater : Is a viking a pirate?
Other : A viking rides on a ship
VinegarEater : But what's a viking?
Other : A viking is a sailor who. . .
VinegarEater : BUT WHAT'S A VIKING!
Other : :freaks out:

Thus, I figure that if I ask him the same question enough times, he will slip up and reveal something.

[Ren]

@Vinegar
Not completely sure what to think about your "claim" at the moment but something seems fishy so null-tell at best for now but we plan on keeping an eye on ya. If you were a power role we don't think you would make that slip which means you are either VT or scum. However, if you are actually a PR don't claim until you need to.

Also, why might you do a little better thanks to us not being able to see you?