In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[Fishythefish]

By my count, I can't push the deadline any later than I already have. So we need a lynch in the next two days.

Looking at people's stances, it seems more likely we can get a wagon going on NPAU than Benmage. Seems almost everyone who isn't already on the AGM wagon prefers an NPAU lynch. Let's do it.

UNVOTE: VOTE: NPAU

[farside22]

I need till tomorrow. I'm going to do my read on Nonpoint, AGM, Fesyal and Ben again.
I hope I have time for it tomorrow.

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

Andrius ( 1 ) AlmasterGM,

(L - 7 )

populartajo ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

hitogoroshi ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

nopointinactingup ( 3 ) Equinox, Benmage,

Fishythefish,

(L - 5 )

Equinox ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

farside22 ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Feysal ( 1 ) Lost Butterfly,

(L - 7 )

Lost Butterfly ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Corvuus ( 3 ) DTMaster, populartajo, Feysal,

(L - 5 )

Benmage ( 1 ) farside22,

(L - 7 )

Almaster GM ( 5 ) Andrius, nopointinactingup, Corvuus, hitogoroshi,

DrippingGoofball,

(L - 3 )

DTMaster ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

(L - 8 )

Not Voting ( 1 )

Nobody Special,

Total Votes ( 15 )

Deadline: March 9th at 23:00 EST
With 15 able to vote, 8 needed to lynch.

And yes, the deadline is extended as far as it can go. A few hours longer, actually, but I didn't catch that until now, so it'll remain at 23:00 EST.

[Equinox]

tl;dr at the bottom.

The meat of the post is better used after we get Day 2 flips, since a lot of this is information-gathering with a side of evaluation.

For shits and giggles, I gathered the post counts.

DrippingGoofball - 294 posts
Equinox - 214 posts
populartajo - 154 posts
DTMaster - 145 posts
Benmage - 143 posts
farside22 - 136 posts
Andrius - 133 posts
Jack/AlmasterGM - 123 posts
Mina/Lost Butterfly - 104 posts

zoraster - 77 posts

hitogoroshi - 66 posts
Fishythefish - 65 posts
themanhimself/Corvuus - 61 walls that can produce eye hemorrhages
Nobody Special - 47 posts that are in perpetual catch-up mode
Me=Weird/CryMeARiver/nopointinactingup - 37 posts that are shorter than your telephone cord
Feysal - 27 posts... Why do I have a town read on this guy again?

Basically, if the

moderator

is posting more than you, there is a problem.

---

As part of my motion to make

politicians accountable to their constituents

scumbags accountable to their votes in post 2023, I'm keeping track of people's reasoning for joining the wagons they are on. The snapshot of vote movements:

AlmasterGM (5) - Andrius, nopointinactingup, Corvuus, hitogoroshi,

Fishythefish

, DrippingGoofball
Corvuus (3) - DTMaster, populartajo,

farside22

,

Benmage

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Equinox

, Feysal
nopointinactingup (3) - Equinox, Benmage, Fishythefish
Andrius (1) - AlmasterGM
Benmage (1) - farside22,

Fishythefish

Feysal (1) - Lost Butterfly
farside22 (0) -

Benmage

Not Voting (1) - Nobody Special,

Lost Butterfly

,

Feysal

,

Fishythefish

You are welcome to stab me in the face for that confusing vote count after you iso zoraster.

A rundown:

AlmasterGM 2012: "Jack's top suspects were Andrius and Equinox. I trust Jack, so my vote stays."

AlmasterGM makes no attempt to weasel his way onto any of the leading bandwagons and instead trusts. Quite town.

Fishythefish 2015: "I dunno. I don't like either of the lynches. But I really don't think Corvuus is scum, so I'm voting AlmasterGM."

I asked about this in the QuickTopic, and Fishythefish explained that he thought it was deadline crunch time and that he had to choose between 2 wagons; thus, he chose AlmasterGM to die. Considering AlmasterGM has yet to catch up, I find this pretty reasonable.

DrippingGoofball 2022: <nothing>

Sigh...

farside22 2030: "Benmage's 'I'm 100% town by meta' spiel is scummy."

farside22 also mentioned waffling over Corvuus. Nothing to be seen here, really.

Lost Butterfly 2031: "AlmasterGM is a bad lynch. Corvuus is probably town. We prefer Feysal or nopointinactingup."

Good stuff, though the fact they're not voting nopointinactingup with me makes me sad.

DTMaster 2037: tl;dr of the giant Corvuus case.

DTMaster has the strongest reason to stay on the Corvuus wagon, and the fact that he's reevaluating in light of differing evidence nets him favor points.

Benmage 2047: "PoE."

This guy has been hopping the bandwagons, which really blows the read I get off his earlier behavior. Benmage is being lazy, which doesn't match what I know of Benmage-town but for some inexplicable reason matches populartajo's Benmage-town. He does have reads, though, after I questioned him. Hold him to those, please.

Andrius 2051: "Jack did not outline his Andrius-scum case outside of gut, and the aim of his gambit was to sow discord. Jack was also caught traitor-fishing."

Apparently, Andrius remained unswayed by the cases for AlmasterGM-town, so I'm leaving it at this. Also, as annoyed as I am with him, Andrius is most likely town; I'm willing to bet that it's actually difficult to snow DrippingGoofball after 250+ posts in an exclusive QuickTopic with her.

Feysal 2061: "Corvuus wants to lynch AlmasterGM despite the fact that, whatever AlmasterGM flips, Nobody Special is still revealed to be scum."

I actually like this post, since it shows that Feysal is reading Corvuus's posts in detail. The Corvuus wagon was also dying at this point, so Feysal is not being opportunistic.

Fishythefish 2075: "Let's wagon nopointinactingup, since this wagon on Benmage isn't rolling."

Uh... Okay.

Not listed:

Corvuus: "We're lynching AlmasterGM to learn about Nobody Special, period."

I am sorry, Corvuus, but I really hate your slot. First, we had to deal with a guy who swore his life on a false dilemma, and then we've got you with your walls of terror. themanhimself's tunneling made me think he was silly town.

You

, on the other hand, have logic so twisted that there were times where I doubted my read of themanhimself. In fact, I'm doubting it right now with what Feysal pointed out from your post 1975.

nopointinactingup: "Eh, he's on my hit list. That hit list comprises of people not on my town list. No, I'm never going to explain them, even if you try to kill me."

Please lynch him.

populartajo:

Where did he go?

---

Congratulations, Corvuus, you have a section to yourself because I just saw this while cruising your iso.

Jack/AGM is the best lynch.

If you disagree and say Jack is town, then you are also saying that NS is scum-God

and so I still don't see why voting for me or think that I am a better lynch than Jack/AGM.

Say what?

Also, for a guy who constantly claims to not have time to explain anything, you write enormous posts, and like 95% of those are, basically, "Lynch AlmasterGM! Lynch AlmasterGM! We can't lynch anyone else!" (Gee, that sounds familiar.)

To Equinox and others who think Jack/AGM is town, you do realize that Jack town should "ideally" tell the truth regarding all things and as such, Jack was telling the truth about the gambit and NS claiming scum to him? And that Jack verifiable flip town proves traitor fishing and that others had to have done it in addition to Jack-town?

Ideally, yes, town tells the straight truth regarding all things. Is that Jack? No. I've seen him claim cop, doctor,

and

serial killer in an open setup, all in one day, and he died a proud bullet-soaking townie. I would not take Jack's claims that Nobody Special claimed to him at face value; he made it painfully obvious a bit later that he was screwing around.

To those who think Jack is town or not a good lynch; Why? Why why why why why?

Short answer: AlmasterGM's behaviors are that of town. In addition, if Jack were scum with Nobody Special, he would have confided the details of his gambit to Nobody Special; this has not happened, and AlmasterGM's description matches what I've gathered of their communication line from multiple sources. AlmasterGM would not have had the time to gather information from that many sources; furthermore, if day talk were in play, AlmasterGM would not have claimed vanilla.

There is a tell that I have been keeping secret until the writing of this post, and that is AlmasterGM's steadfast belief in Jack. AlmasterGM has had ample opportunity to jump on any of the wagons. He could have used any of the excuses provided on the last 4-5 pages to do so, and no one would have been the wiser; replacements have the option of reading only the most recent pages in a deadline crunch and then fully catching up later, and that isn't scummy. What AlmasterGM did, instead, was say, "I don't know who's scum 'cuz I don't have enough information, so I'mma trust Jack." Town.

I am not lynching someone on whom I have a town read to get information that is useless to me. I'd rather lynch scum.

---

Your tl;dr summary:

• I am surprised that my post 2023 resulted in the dissolution of the Corvuus wagon; I expected both wagons to die (and hoped they'd all pile on nopointinactingup). I'd call the movements off the Corvuus wagon into question, but I've got town reads on two of the hoppers and the third is beyond reproach.
• Therefore, I call into question the persistence of the AlmasterGM wagon. Faraday is correct; this wagon stinks. Andrius and DrippingGoofball should either get out of their tunnels or start countering all of the reasons behind AlmasterGM-town because AlmasterGM is
  town
  , and you two are being stubborn. hitogoroshi should also start considering his own personal read of AlmasterGM's and Benmage's behaviors. The three people most questionable on this wagon are Corvuus, Fishythefish, and nopointinactingup; above vote count shows Fishythefish hopping like he's playing Leap Frog, Corvuus is Corvuus, and nopointinactingup can't be assed to have actual scum reads 'cuz "[his] scumdar is broken."
• Hold Benmage accountable to his reads constantly. Don't let pressure fall off him.
• Force Corvuus to out his reads. Don't let him tunnel into AlmasterGM to the exclusion of everyone else, and don't let him bury his reads in his sea of words. I would do this today, but I want to focus on getting nopointinactingup lynched because you guys are never going to lynch him otherwise. See below.
• Why is nopointinactingup so hard to lynch? You guys are calling it a "fallback lynch." Why? If you are scum, this is the time to bus the living shit out of him. If you are town, I refer you to this slot's glorious iso of 37 posts, and then I point you to the time stamps on page 2 of nopointinactingup's iso. You know what? He's been under question
  despite
  DTMaster's result on him, yet nobody's gotten around to lynching him until now. Why is this?

...sorry, that was hella long.

Now I'm off to flunk a few midterms. I won't be doing anything major Mafia-wise until those things are over. Please string up nopointinactingup in the meantime.

[populartajo]

Im fine with either Corvus or nopoint dying, preferably Corv, and will switch my vote according to the situation to prevent no-lynch,

Why are you guys votying again AMG? Havent we discussed Jack-transparent and vanilla-claim before?

[populartajo]

Also wtf, am I the only one noticing this contradiction?

I read Jack and the slot i'm replacing (themanhimself). I would agree with my slot except for the fact that in the opening post on scum, it states that scum have a day chat quicktopic and given that, even though it is like Jack claiming some 'weird' like day 1 massclaim/gambit, etc. it isn't at the very least a scum slip since he did it expressedly on purpose.

Given how incredibly powerful scum daytalk is, I actually like the gambit since 'polarizing' issues get reads and stands and I like how Jack handled it vis a vis town tend towards polarization while scum tend to calculate/hedge

.

Almaster GM, can you ask and handle PM/quicktopic discussion such that you have what Jack said and did, etc.

A major point for why Jack needs to die is that he pulled a gambit (iso jack) based on PM/quicktopic with his God

and that he could pull this gambit as both town and scum and the conclusion for this gambit regardless of alignment would be toward NS being scum.
If you can't get the pm/quicktopic/comment, then it is something close to a policy information lynch in that I sincerely believe that your slot must die.

As it is, i'm heavily leaning towards scum-Jack...

Also who the hell wants to lynch someone for informational reasons?

[Fishythefish]

The three people most questionable on this wagon are Corvuus, Fishythefish, and nopointinactingup; above vote count shows Fishythefish hopping like he's playing Leap Frog

I suppose I have, but I feel all my hops have been justified (albeit one of them only because I'm an idiot who forgot his power). Are there any you want to know more about?

[populartajo]

The three people most questionable on this wagon are Corvuus, Fishythefish, and nopointinactingup; above vote count shows Fishythefish hopping like he's playing Leap Frog

I suppose I have, but I feel all my hops have been justified (albeit one of them only because I'm an idiot who forgot his power). Are there any you want to know more about?

when did the unjustified hop happen?

[Fishythefish]

My vote for AGM only made sense because the deadline was today, and I forgot I could move it, so I thought I basically had to choose AGM or Corvuus.

[populartajo]

why did you decide AGM if you think Corv is scummier than him?

[populartajo]

nvm i thought you had Corv scummier than AMG.

[populartajo]

I really don't like either of the lynches that look possible here. Equinox is right about TMH - TMH/NS makes no sense. And NS is the scumgod, so Corvuus isn't scum.

I dont understand why NSscum means Corvuustown. Clarify?

but this was left without an answer.

[Corvuus]

In terms of walls of post. I can't do sporadic posting as most of my time is available in one big chunk slot. So... not much I can do about that.

As for what people are saying are 'contradictions'.

First off, Jack without a traitor flip is town. I state so in my ISO which tajo just pointed out.

With Spyrex as a traitor, Jack's reasoning, stance, etc. has/had to be re-examined.

Here is my problem:

There is Jack's initial gambit (post #0 iso), followed by #5 iso and others in which Jack kind of lols around, says other than NS can be scum God and generally implies that he either lied about the whole thing while not backing down from him actually making the gambit. This didn't bother me since Jack is actually doing something and it fits his meta and he is getting some kind of reads.

Jack iso #19 is interesting to me in that "Feysal says that if I had told NS it was a gambit, he would have known it was. But he knew it was regardless because he knew what he did and didn't say". There is the point of daytalking scum and that scum would know who the other scum are so Jack claiming scum and NS claiming back is nonsensical (without traitor flip). There is divergent points at this part but it isn't clear exactly what Jack is referring to in what NS did or what he knew and didn't say. (This comes up later).

Jack is further cemented as a potential liar with iso #57 "I'm bulletproof", and AGM's claiming that he is townie.

Jack iso #77, DGB can be scum God, along with others posts for Fishy can be scum God, etc. etc.

I also find things inconsistent in Jack such as Jack SPECIFICALLY asked for Equinox to get bulletproof immunity from DGB (iso #27), yet in his iso #107, questions why Equinox is alive and has to be reminded of what happened.

His reads flip-flop in some parts and he doesn't go into any big detail or explanation. This didn't bother me too much actually and finally ended by Jack being replaced after Iso #104 and 111 in which there is, again, repeated repudiation of his earlier gambit.

So yes, Jack being a completely liar is very possible and I mention that possibility and account for it, along with 'bulletproof claim', and other more far-fetched possibilities. My comments and point to Jack/AGM and NS was for more specific information regarding Jack's gambit and in particular what was exactly said and done.

If Jack was still here, I would have expected a 'chuckle', laugh and brush it off. He could even say that the event NEVER happened and it would be pointless to lynch him. For that exact reason, I gave no reasons for why I want Jack lynched since "reason" influences "defense". AGM and NS have stated that there was "something" mentioned about scum and some exchange in quicktopic.

I have no idea why there isn't a paraphrase or further elaboration on this point (outright quotation is illegal and is not what I am asking for) especially given in the light of game posts #278 by LL, Feysal's #279 and Jack iso #19 (referencing 279 in game).

In particular, Feysal states that NS would clearly know it was a gambit and that Jack can be doing this to get reads on those who wish to lynch him, etc. Jack's iso #19 becomes "But he (NS) knew it (was a gambit) was regardless because he (NS) knew what he (NS) did and didn't say". Jack doesn't develop this more even later on with the traitor flip which strikes me as strange since Jack-town, NS scum with traitor flip information should be interesting to Jack yet he remains silent on Spyrex flip (small comment on Spyrex flip) and continues to repudiate his previous comment. This calls into question what exactly was said by Jack, by NS and perhaps Jack was just loling and DID claim scum to NS, NS claimed scum back (due to traitor existence) but Jack not knowing about traitor existence considered NS calling his bluff/knowing it was a gambit since, NS-scum should know who is scum and thus why would NS claim back to Jack? Jack either doesn't consider this or has other reasons. (speculative).

NS and AGM both confirming in-thread that there is a few lines of 'something' about scum said is important and it has already been several pages without anything further on this which AGM needs to elaborate on.

When I stated that Jack/AGM can be town or scum I was serious in that, there are a few specific points that Jack/AGM could make and clarify that would show his alignment to me in a definite way and clarify NS scum situation. I did not wish to elaborate since it has to be Jack/AGM's own words that give an answer and I don't want him picking one to satisfy me but AGM must say something or die.

If there is no further discussion or answer forth coming from Jack/AGM, then it is a great loss to town info and Jack/AGM again (for reasons I do not wish to elaborate more on in-thread, I can talk to fishy) should be lynched. There are also points to be made as to other's stance regarding Jack/AGM and NS. In particular, why mention Jack is a liar except to attempt a null on his eventual flip? Why are other players taking stances in such a way that is blurring this issue and I'm surprised not many comments regarding how NS must be scum God regardless of Jack's flip and how this wagon has gone.

*AGM: Clarify in paraphrase what exactly was said between you(jack) and NS. You don't need to read the whole thread for what I want and in fact, I was hoping you would just paraphrase it and full disclosure after replacing in.

-----

As for my other reads, I have posted with Fishy and I can say more in-thread but you guys hate my 'eye bleeding' inducing posts yet you want me to post more?

I don't quite understand the point on nopointactingup.

Town: (excluding Gods and AGM and nopointactingup for DTm action reasons)
Equinox
Andrius
Lost Butterfly

Farside
DTm
Benmage
Feysal
Hito
Tajo


I won't agree to lynching the top 3, nor also Farside. I have some specific thoughts that Fishy has in quicktopic for some of the players but I doubt knowing what I think would actually change people's minds other than maybe convincing you that if I am crazy, at least I believe in what I'm doing.

Corvuus

[DrippingGoofball]

Corvuus is town, totally town, and the scum is

AGM

.

This above is an EXCELLENT piece of scum hunting.

Those that have called the AGM wagon worthless will be ashamed.

[DrippingGoofball]

I want to see 3 more votes on AGM for the lynch. The nopoint wagon is lame, the scum would be dumb to RB DTMaster, and kill LLD. They need to RB DTMaster, and kill DTMaster. The LLD... is almost as if the scum were trying to guess where DTMaster might have been hiding.

Three more, three more, and we have a lynch.

VOTE: AGM

[Andrius]

Sorry Equinox, but I'm holding my ground.

“When a person of good character decides on something, they need to hold their ground and budge for nothing.”

[populartajo]

I want to see 3 more votes on AGM for the lynch. The nopoint wagon is lame, the scum would be dumb to RB DTMaster, and kill LLD. They need to RB DTMaster, and kill DTMaster. The LLD... is almost as if the scum were trying to guess where DTMaster might have been hiding.

Three more, three more, and we have a lynch.

VOTE: AGM

The LLD kill scenario works if DTM is terrribly wrong with his read or if LLD was terribly spot on hers, or if scum caught an important cop-tell during the day.

DGB: you think AlmasterGM could have predicted that a vanilla claim would have saved his lynch? Dont you think daytalk scumbags would have planned a claim when jack was starting to get the heat? Dont you think forcing a counterclaim or an appeal to role would have worked best when there was a competing wagon with a lot of support = hito?

[Andrius]

Not if they think the number of town PRs are extremely limited. Like fakeclaiming Doc/Cop in a Newbie game where everyone is VT. Boom: scumlynch.

[populartajo]

why would scum think the PRs are extremely limited? Even if this were the case, how could town know that is the case and lynch him?

You sincerely think we would have lynched, lets say a doc, with no counterclaim?

[populartajo]

there is more support for a nopoint lynch.

Unvote Vote: nopointinactingup

[populartajo]

hito should also vig Feysal.

[populartajo]

DGB,

Almaster GM ( 5 ) Andrius, nopointinactingup, Corvuus, hitogoroshi, DrippingGoofball, (L - 3 )


you think this is a 100% town wagon, y/n?

[populartajo]

Regardless of Jack's alignment, who is the scum iun this wagon?

*** Jack ( 7 ) *** DrippingGoofball, Andrius, nopointinactingup, Equinox, Benmage, Corvuus, Fishythefish, (L - 1 )

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB: you think AlmasterGM could have predicted that a vanilla claim would have saved his lynch?

He had a chance. I have personally stopped vanilla claimants from getting lynched in the past. Jack/AGM had no chance/time to do anything else but claim vanilla.

Dont you think daytalk scumbags would have planned a claim when jack was starting to get the heat?

NO. I might. But even I, might not have. Scumz are usually lazy, and I doubt very much they would have bothered giving AGM a fakeclaim with a plausible night choice (and credible explanations).

Dont you think forcing a counterclaim or an appeal to role would have worked best when there was a competing wagon with a lot of support = hito?

One small mistake (an extremely likely prospect), and he'd be 100% dead. With a vanilla claim, he had a prayer. And it worked.

[DrippingGoofball]

Regardless of Jack's alignment, who is the scum iun this wagon?

*** Jack ( 7 ) *** DrippingGoofball, Andrius, nopointinactingup, Equinox, Benmage, Corvuus, Fishythefish, (L - 1 )

Maybe Benmage, with nopoint as a long shot that we should test LATER, not today. But it's entirely possible that this wagon is all town, and the scum had enough reasons to hold off (like Jack flaking off the site).

STOP getting in the way of the Jack/AGM lynch. Earlier, you were complaining about our lack of focus, but now, all you are doing is distracting.

I also suspect there is an incentive to concentrate the hits in my neighborhood, because we are powerful, working as a team.