Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Ydrasse]

Why didn't you shoot last night?

My reads weren't solid enough. I didn't see what the rest of you saw with Infinity.

I wanted to shoot Tanner just so I don't have to read another post of his. Every single post is him harping at me being scum and how the entire game can be solved by killing me.

Well I have bad news, I'm town. But I understand if everyone else wants to hang me, I am a terrible player, and when I'm gone, Tanner will gloat that I had it coming and at least you'll hear him talk about other stuff.

this post is cringe espsecially the last part

i genuinely do not think you are a terrible player nor should you think about yourself like that if you are actually but like this is some gross ate

[Ydrasse]

I can kind of buy town!Robert doing this despite being suboptimal, but I'm not sure that outweighs the likelihood of scum!Robert using the claim to buy time.

in team mafia my partner was being pushed and claimed like, n-1 vig when ran up so this is like "okay lol"

it's the perfect claim to buy yourself more time as mafia because like, in theory it's provable but i feel like 9/10 times it's going to come from mafia trying to eek themselves out of the elim and go for town

[Ydrasse]

you do realize that tanner is (1) person in this town right

He's one relentless person. Every time I log on, I come across his dumb conspiracies, eyeroll and force myself to post

okay well then why didn't you just... shoot him. that's what i don't get

if he's THAT bad to you, you are voting him, you want him dead, you had that power and just... didn't?

like if you're town you sitting there should go "huh, this person is pushing me a lot and they're wrong, they seem like a good shot"

idk if that's just how i would play it but it makes a lot more sense than holding a shot when you're suspected

[Ydrasse]

i genuinely do not think you are a terrible player

Get outta a'here... I'm the worst player in every game I've played.

How am I not a terrible player?

:/

i don't feel like hashing out like, a pick-me-up atm but i don't think anyone is a "terrible player" but you aren't engaging with us in like... a helpful way?

[Ydrasse]

you just feel very reactive, maybe is a good way to put it

[Ydrasse]

I can kind of buy town!Robert doing this despite being suboptimal, but I'm not sure that outweighs the likelihood of scum!Robert using the claim to buy time.

in team mafia my partner was being pushed and claimed like, n-1 vig when ran up so this is like "okay lol"

it's the perfect claim to buy yourself more time as mafia because like, in theory it's provable but i feel like 9/10 times it's going to come from mafia trying to eek themselves out of the elim and go for town

OK, now I know you're scum, first you lie by saying I'm not a terrible player and now you're hot under the collar because there's nothing scum hates more than a vig. Except maybe a tracker.

holy fuck

in what world do i lie about you not being terrible, what a shitty fucking thing for a person to do? what's wrong with you

[Ydrasse]

fuck me for trying to be nice i guess but my god you're being reactive when there's no reason to be

you're not a bad or terrible player or w/e

thumbs up emoji have fun

[Ydrasse]

i think he probly does believe he is a terrible player

and i don't think that he is but it's like... weaponizing that back as something i would Use against someone in any game ever as "hehe i secretly DO think you're terrible" is like, :/

[Ydrasse]

idk man

i'm never going to lie about something like that that's just like, really rude and fucked to go after someone on a personal level

[Ydrasse]

idk man

i'm never going to lie about something like that that's just like, really rude and fucked to go after someone on a personal level

It's nothing personal, this is just a dumb game.

I'm never ever going to believe anyone who says that I'm the

second

worst player on site.

it felt like it, sorry :/

just, i don't gauge people on them being bad or have a weird tier list for it and i don't think you are a bad player or that terrible, you're being reactive a lot which is frustrating currently and i think you're scum but i really, really don't think you're a bad player

[Ydrasse]

i don't think you're a vig. you would have shot

[Ydrasse]

i don't want to interact anymore with the idea of "good player versus bad player"

p-edit: okay, so, your entire read on me before this moment was what, exactly? why was i not scum before for voting you and saying my vote on you was a good one ?

[Ydrasse]

like fmpov

i'm the first person to call bullshit on your claim

so you're like okay, have to fight 1v1 kill maim this person to live today

[Ydrasse]

what part? not believing you?

[Ydrasse]

what exactly am i supposed to believe about your claim and instantly back down from having seen similar claims from mafia before?

[Ydrasse]

maybe a good way to talk about robert's play rn is that it feels like a lot of bravado to try and like, re-affirm he really is the vig and i WILL be sniped from 1000 yards tonight no doubts

[Ydrasse]

why didn't you prove it last night knowing that you were one of the people most suspected? and why didn't you shoot the person that you were gunning for like... all game, who was trying to kill you. lol

[Ydrasse]

also i thought you were going to shoot me anyways why would i be quivering in my boots for any member of my ~~scumteam

i'm taking the shot for them i'm the martyr

[Ydrasse]

you were definitely one of the most suspected people and trying to say otherwise is willful ignorance, you were in the bottom with infinity, nakata and ircher

you had someone hard pushing you all game; if you're the vig you KNOW they are wrong, yeah? they are hard gunning for you. you have a chance to kill someone who is pushing you (and if you are a bad player as you say, you would most likely have the perception that you can be an easy miselim, esp since you said you never survive past d3.)

you keep using the same bluster and bravado to try and enforce to everyone you're town but it literally is just, the scummiest claim you can make and the one scum makes to buy time and i'm not gonna let this slide lmao

[Ydrasse]

no. lol.

there is no reason to let this live

[Ydrasse]

viewtopic.php?p=12552933#p12552933

for everyone's reading pleasure

[Ydrasse]

Forcing scum's hand is always a net benefit.

They're just going to kill me tonight, because while other townies will have doubts about my claim,

the scum know I'm telling the truth

.

*brow arch*

why is this?

[Ydrasse]

crazy how vig is the "provable claim" that you can fall back on and say oh yeah guys i'm going to shoot tonight dw and flip the elim onto someone else to save yourself for another day

[Ydrasse]

Forcing scum's hand is always a net benefit.

They're just going to kill me tonight, because while other townies will have doubts about my claim,

the scum know I'm telling the truth

.

*brow arch*

why is this?

The scum, and by "the scum" I mean "you," know that I am town.

i'm more interested in the implication that scum would somehow know your role specifically as true atm

[Ydrasse]

im going to shake you all like snowglobes for believing this

[Ydrasse]

I fail to see why it even matters if Robert is scum lying. We just kill him tomorrow. And if he isnt, hes confirm town and we get a PoE kill during the night.

I'm very much missing the urgency here. What's going to happen if scum robert lives an extra day?

it's an actual scum claim idk what else you want me to tell you

if we flip off of it and go on town that's yknow, an issue

[Ydrasse]

like genuinely, i dont know how else to spell out for you "the person being wagoned claimed a role that necessitates them being kept alive another day under the premise that theyll have a provable night action that i dont think exists" is a scummy thing

[Ydrasse]

and then you have robert trying to play it up like OH ILL SHOOT YOU ILL SHOOT YOU trying to bluster his way through it, and he's ateing, and being in general like... every single scummy thing a person can be

why do we have to keep this alive?

[Ydrasse]

Delaying also has the side effect that it gives scum more time to wiggle out of being faded. Maybe it seems inevitable now and a certainty tomorrow, but people have a habit of changing their minds on a whim.

I love you for being conftown

[Ydrasse]

like genuinely just

we're not obligated to keep a pr claim alive when it's been scummy for a long time

i know you had some gut read on him mt but at this point what has he done to justify being kept alive other than his claim?

[Ydrasse]

it's not ~conf scum~ like, i know 1000000%

but he claimed it when people were talking about intent to hammer and claimed it knowing that THIS is the claim that gets another day for him more than like, idk, a watcher or something

and then his reaction after was bad

[Ydrasse]

theorizing at length about someone who claimed to be a 1-shot vig in a silent star game of all games after being ran up and being like “no no, we can LEASH THEM don’t worry teehee let’s let them go today” is fucking stupid and i regret waking up and reading any of this. it is equally stupid to even speculate that i’m scum or be wary of me for going after this so dogmatically because it would implicate that i am willing to throw away any towncred i would have gotten thus far and risk my own life on being shot if i did not succeed.

[Ydrasse]

but i guess we’re believing every pr claim that comes our way and ignoring convenience and doing what we can to really make sure that it lives by calling it fair and robert suddenly towny for everything

[Ydrasse]

Okay, then talk to me about your townreads. You said you were town reading Amy yesterday? Why? Has you read changed since you posted that? (1228)

The only one in that list that I am reconsidering is Pooky. A lot of his posts are hands off and ingratiating himself to other players. Nothing wrong with the latter, but the combination with the former gives me pause.

Thaaaats Pooky!! I don't think your evaluation of him is unfair, but I can tell you that is fairly typical of his play.

He could be scum in theory, but Pooky uuuuusuually has a bit more of a gameplan as scum. I think that day one was probably beatable for scum had they tried a little more potentially. Eh, maybe Infy was screwed. Either way I don't think Pooky really did much to stop it or shake anything up. And granted, he can just goof off as scum so im not 100%, but i think he's more likely town so far.

You're so certain of a scumread that you're willing to shoot now -- but you couldnt get that certain yesterday?

That's right. Since I started on play on this site, I can't shake off my scummy aura, which means that I'm usually under attack.

In a weird way, it's become that I seem to only get reads when players attack me because I can judge their agenda better.

Like, I'm not sure that Tanner is scum, he is attacking me nonstop but he could also leave me around as limbait if he were scum, it would be a good strategy.

Ydrasse is a different story, Ydrasse fears my vig shot.

You see, it's virtually impossible to read players solely off their interactions with your slot personally. In fact, i think that's probably one of the least accurate ways since your own reaction to them is gonna be cloudy. Judging people by how they push you is just going to be... shaky at best.

For what it's worth I disagree with Ydrasse that your claim/reaction suggests extremely obvious scum]. I can easily conceive this being your town play, even though it's unorthodox nightplay-wise and kinda scummy in appearance.

It seems like it's going to be a massive pain getting a different wagon going especially considering you still might be scum...

and as long as you're dead set on shooting Ydrasse, i dont think anyone's going to reconsider you. I imagine it comes across as fake to some. Are you willing to shoot elsewhere from Ydrasse and if so where? I would kinda prefer a few others.

you do realize that tanner is (1) person in this town right

He's one relentless person. Every time I log on, I come across his dumb conspiracies, eyeroll and force myself to post

okay well then why didn't you just... shoot him. that's what i don't get

if he's THAT bad to you, you are voting him, you want him dead, you had that power and just... didn't?

like if you're town you sitting there should go "huh, this person is pushing me a lot and they're wrong, they seem like a good shot"

idk if that's just how i would play it but it makes a lot more sense than holding a shot when you're suspected

I really don't buy that town!Robert shoots Tanner. I buy you doing it in his shoes, but i don't really see him doing it so much, ya know?

Doesn't make him town yet though cause could buy it from scum too

I can kind of buy town!Robert doing this despite being suboptimal, but I'm not sure that outweighs the likelihood of scum!Robert using the claim to buy time.

in team mafia my partner was being pushed and claimed like, n-1 vig when ran up so this is like "okay lol"

it's the perfect claim to buy yourself more time as mafia because like, in theory it's provable but i feel like 9/10 times it's going to come from mafia trying to eek themselves out of the elim and go for town

OK, now I know you're scum,

first you lie by saying I'm not a terrible player

and now you're hot under the collar because there's nothing scum hates more than a vig. Except maybe a tracker.

Do you actually think someone calling you not a terrible player is a scumtell? How is that even a lie, that's a subjective opinion

The real point I'm making is that Ydrasse is scum because she wants the vig dead.

Well that's at least more believable. Naturally, scum will push for you to be eliminated if you are not a part of their faction here. I too am a bit wary of this, especially considering there is seemingly no reason to not just tell you who to shoot and have you confirmed town on the next day.

I'm a bit skeptical that Robert is scum who thought of hyper-fixating on Ydrasse as a performative AtE kinda thing... you might call it ridiculous but i can see the rationale there.

maybe a good way to talk about robert's play rn is that it feels like a lot of bravado to try and like, re-affirm he really is the vig and i WILL be sniped from 1000 yards tonight no doubts

That too is also fair though, reaffirming that you're vig over and over again is unecessary. I understand exactly why you think it sounds fake

I actually kinda think he's doing it because it plays into how he scumreads you though. He finds your reaction scummy, soo I think he's doing it because lashing out at the ppl pushing him is how he makes reads....... maybe? Am I overthinking? It does come off that way to me. Rather than reaffirming he's vig, I think he's just reaffirming he wants to kill you. Which i get is similar but maybe it's to get a reaction out of you, ey?

i believe its possible that robert is a one shot vig but i don't really want him to shoot datisi or ydra so im fine with yeeting him

This was my snap reaction i had earlier. A fair enough take. Tricky though because this is obviously what i'd react with as scum too

I wasn't the most suspected, I had three votes at the most.

I did not want to hit a townie, is that hard to understand? My handle of the game was too nebulous for me to kill the right player, I'm not going to kill a townie to clear myself, that's counter productive and helps no one. Though I can see why scum-you would want me to do that.

But I'll shoot you tonight and hit scum.

To be honest, in your shoes, I'd be worried about the backlash i'd get from the rest of the game after shooting a townie. I also think it's likely you weren't thinking much about how the shot proves you, and rather how it needs to hit scum... so I can see it

i believe its possible that robert is a one shot vig but i don't really want him to shoot datisi or ydra so im fine with yeeting him

I thought I should use my power on anyone just to prove myself?

You should use your power on the agreed-upon most scummy player by the end of today

....(other than you). That way, everyone's happy! Except scum hopefully

like idk how else to tell you this without being extremely rude but you're sitting here doing everything you can to try and justify robert living and being town and going at the end with the implication that we will all back off and everything will be easy peasy and i don't know why. either you have some gutread that you're grasping at straws to justify or you're like scum with robert and trying to keep the elim off of him for another day and then when tomorrow comes and i am presumably not dead (unless it's from the scumkill! lol!) you're going to be like :c oh uwu sorry guys i really messed up believing him >_< and everyone will be like aw it's okay we all did it too.

and that's why it's so infuriating to see people go "no we can LEASH HIM" instead of killing a scummy person with a scummy claim in a series of games that historically haven't had prs in the last two iterations.

[Ydrasse]

i'm going back to bed and if i wake up and everyone's like "okay robert take your time doing something remotely towny at all with that little claim of yours" literally just lol.

[Ydrasse]

@mt sorry, i was very cranky and frustrated when i replied that post as i woke up in the middle of the night, the cute talking thing wasn’t like, mocking you specifically/how you type. it really does feel like though that despite everyone else being okay with robert dying... after the claim no one really is? it’s really just... frustrating. that’s the best word i have to describe it, but i’m genuinely not upset with you or anyone on a personal level, just a game one. i’m sorry again. <3

[Ydrasse]

@tanner if you are scum i will piledrive you through the floor postgame

[Ydrasse]

re setup: there’s nothing to say a silent star game cant have a pr but looking at the last two, it feels unlikely this one does as well. the games are based around mechanical things going on and not the individual’s role (i think the first one having roles made sense with the setup/conceit of the game). so far, we have yin and yang and a bomb. we already have killing power added into the game beyond a nightkill and i don’t think a random vig is thrown in there to... what, keep us off evens when if we get on evens in the first place it’s from the results of our day play?

[Ydrasse]

i got irritated w this game so i spent yesterday grinding in wow, anyways

i don’t think the way infinity reacted with nakata is inherently clearing? infinity was under pressure early for feeling “off” and there weren’t many times where that sort of passive pressure relented on her. if she wasn’t feeling this game (which i believe is entirely due to her alignment) but she doesn’t want to throw, i think that her pushing one partner who’s being wagoned while defending the other makes sense?

it’s way easier when you’re unsure to point out things that you actually see as scummy because you KNOW they’re scummy, and defending the wagon you’re potentially competing against (ircher) is something people don’t think scum would do on a shallow level of play. it’s a good way to get towncred on both fronts that was in short stock for infinity this game because she didn’t have the time/energy to put it making more nuanced reads on other people. (and imo her most nuanced read WAS nakata). so i’m leaning towards it being damning rather than clearing. it’s hard to tell though since nakata ghosted this game so if we get a rep they can... at least post something?

also lol at infinity trying to pocket me in retrospect

[Ydrasse]

flea being scum is possible. but what was the scumteam’s plan if it’s like, fae + infinity + something like robert or nakata? fae hasn’t done much on the side of like... solving in a game sense, mechanically sure. like there are weird votes and tunnels and vote parking and just a lack of substance which i guess if you have a team like the suggested you don’t have a lot of sway this game and hope you... survive by being “creative town” as someone earlier said, marching to the beat of your own drum because what scum would do that lol

but. atp i feel that’d be signing your teams deathwish bc of the like, strong townreads that have formed? you can’t survive thru a poe of like, me/tanner/amy or something going to endgame (sorry ircher but i think between the bomb and a nk you might be going down) the second tier of this becomes like mt/pooky/chara to work with? like there’s not really room for the bottom poe unless they kick it into gear and even if fleas been busy i feel fae... could have done that which uh. hm. i guess if flea ever does flip scum after we do like, robert (srry still don’t believe the vig claim) + nakata it suggests a Deepwoof but we’d realize that by that point anyways so w/e

[Ydrasse]

also, fwiw i still don’t see value in solving what a criminal is by virtue of my own reads meaning it doesn’t make sense, and also playing 20 questions to solve the game seems like incredibly bad setup design. i also just don’t find it that engaging as a mechanique even if it is truthful and could spend hours regardless spinning reasons why the info is probably useless based off of yin/yang being opposites but then i’m just being pedantic

[Ydrasse]

yeah i’m not interested in hunting in my townreads but it was a theoretical of how/why flea would be Like This as scum

[Ydrasse]

haha... yeah we sure are... aha

[Ydrasse]

he said he’d let mt leash him or w/e but grain of salt

[Ydrasse]

what makes you sure?

[Ydrasse]

........

[Ydrasse]

soooooo want to explain yourself ?

[Ydrasse]

theres a lot to explain imo!(:

[Ydrasse]

you should just read when you have your coffee

there is something Very Interesting! to me but as a whole just read and go from there

[Ydrasse]

read the last page for me tanner

that is all

[Ydrasse]

what do you mean finally, did you before?

[Ydrasse]

well now i feel dumb

[Ydrasse]

hahahahaha holy fuck imagine saying that you thought i would be afraid of your role instead of calling it out as fake which it was

like jesus christ i don’t even have words right now

[Ydrasse]

i’m going back to work holy shit

[Ydrasse]

if he’s town and he’s skewed the game like this it’s actually infuriating alongside the fact that like. stop saying you’re a terrible player over and over genuinely no one is viewing you like that except yourself and you’re being too harsh on your own play and it’s uncomfortable to have to interact with someone bashing themselves like that because then i feel like an asshole for even pushing you if you are town and that upset and if you’re scum you’re just gross for using that sort of ate and it’s like. that sort of stuff shouldn’t really be said in a game context imo if you think you’re not great try to improve instead of repeating it idk. it makes the game just not fun for interaction and i really wish that wasn’t what we had to contend with this game

a vig claim is a bit scummier and necessitates revealing because he knows there’s no shot to come tomorrow whereas a tracker lie is as simple as a fake report. idk.

[Ydrasse]

like genuinely my fun has been sapped away 100% from this wooooo let’s goooooo

[Ydrasse]

it's more the fact that i do not have the emotional energy to engage with the qualms that come w someone calling themselves a terrible player and how to deal with that in a game sense when i wish it wasn't a thing that was repeatedly stated. it's just added an unpleasant element for me, but i also don't feel good today so i'm just kind of whatever

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: nakata

i still can’t fathom whatever happened yesterday and i don’t feel good enough to try rn

[Ydrasse]

in royalty they thought they had roles iirc but didn’t

i need to pay attention to my nullzone more either tonight or tomorrow because the more i think abt it i don’t get it being infinity/flea/nakata because like yes i know scum don’t always have plans but infinity was dead on arrival and flea doubled down on mech and nakata is actually wearing a jester cap atp to the point i’m worried he is one because he’s saying the most like... shallow surface level lies that are fact checked within minutes and he has to know that won’t work? like these are very obvious things that are contradictions but like. idk. does he want to die without spewing stuff more by just being so scummy he’s focused on on ? that makes no sense

i kiinda feel like there’s 1 scum in clidd/pooky/chara right now bc they’re not as strong as tweet/amy for me. I will die before i consider tanner scum for the sheer amount of samebrain this game even with the robertflip (i’m gonna be honest by the end i didn’t really believe in him being scum half as much as i did but like i was so upset with his play that i didnt want him to live despite my doubts because for the love of god don’t claim vig ever like that but i shouldn’t say more than this)

[Ydrasse]

actually amy is probably at the same level as tanner for me at this point

[Ydrasse]

i’m just spewing my thoughts right now but i think that i can probably leave my mt paranoia behind too bc we are also samebraining as of e last few hours

[Ydrasse]

Morning, Ydrasse, Amy, Pooky and Ircher are my townpool.

Flea, Nakata, Chara and Tanner are PoE. I can see any of them being scum.

tanner?????

[Ydrasse]

why is he scummy?

[Ydrasse]

okay i guess, imo tanner and i have had... the exact same trajectory this game with how we’ve thought/approached ppl so i guess to me it’s like, if people townread me he should be up there too? like above the poe at least because he’s been pivotal to get done the same things i have and if you’ve liked me well then. yeah.

if it’s an energy thing i can’t argue but i don’t think you should be looking there

[Ydrasse]

as in: i guess i have more ~fire~ but even then i’d be like ehhh

[Ydrasse]

SO TRUEEEEE

[Ydrasse]

i think that it’s probably less effective to share “mind meld omg” as a reason for someone being town unless you’re the person who is like feeling it

p-edit what do you mean reflect on you as one?

[Ydrasse]

ohhhh okay i thought that about you so i was confused ok ok

[Ydrasse]

can someone just hammer

[Ydrasse]

i'm just bored of this dayphaseeeeee

[Ydrasse]

at this point p sure he pulled the ol infinity incognito

and is there anything that he could actually say that would change the collective minds of his wagon enough to not vote him

[Ydrasse]

[Ydrasse]

assuming scum did pick amy, what does that say about pooky's alignment

like she's been hard townreading him all game and i know she says that he wouldn't say/do the things he's done as scum to her but... imo he would entirely and beyond taking away an easy sentencing for town this feels like it benefits him more than anyone else

[Ydrasse]

i really want flea to talk about... anything right now because fae sitting on tanner/the yin stuff all game feels like a good way to distance from infinity/nakata without it being obvious? like there's little association that comes with that tunnel vision to them and if they were both acting super scummy and letting themselves get wagoned. yeah.

[Ydrasse]

[tanner, me, morning (?)]

i'm starting with this for who i want but i need to actually do legwork for once and go back to check but i think tanner has passed the breakpoint for me of "is this all wifom and he's been masterminding this all along"

we should also decide the order before we start voting but i agree with mt i think

[Ydrasse]

i think that of the 'towniest' people whoever thinks they can get amy to look at pooky critically with the most success should stick around

even if she is right on her townread there i don't want it being pushed through because she said so

[Ydrasse]

assuming scum did pick amy, what does that say about pooky's alignment

like she's been hard townreading him all game and i know she says that he wouldn't say/do the things he's done as scum to her but... imo he would entirely and beyond taking away an easy sentencing for town this feels like it benefits him more than anyone else

i totally could see scum!pooky doing that... amy was generally townread, no? maybe i'm bised because you were my strongest townread going into the night and if anything i'd expect you to be conftown'ed, but i'm probably biased by not townreading amy that strongly myself.

i think amy was one of the top townreads? i also think (and no offense amy i don't mean this meanly) she gets really stubborn on her reads sometimes which makes her a perfect candidate if her reads are good for scum.

[Ydrasse]

pooky ily but... *smiles*

[Ydrasse]

do we think that scum knew from the start who they were going to try and kill? or do you think they tried to feel things out to see what people were thinking and roll with whoever was doing good as scum to keep and the ones that werent doing good to kill

like i think? infinity was gunning to be killed early on but im unsure on nakata. infinity caved early on but nakata was trying for a good while so im unsure if he was actually /supposed/ to die until people starting going more on him

[Ydrasse]

i love how many people are trying to shade me when im amy's top townread and she's conftown

if this is how you play when you're town rofl just throwing rn

poooooooooooky

p-edit: do you think mt's mafia?

[Ydrasse]

[Ydrasse]

the vibes are fucking atrocious right now

[Ydrasse]

for a hot minute there i thought it was morning/pooky doing theater together but i think that at least mt is still town after reading it through again

[Ydrasse]

I feel bad now, i want to clarify to the thread that im not actually angry i was just having fun

i don't think mt makes this post if the team is exactly mt/pooky so if we sentence one and they flip mafia it's probably safe to get the other one

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: tanner

this is the Move let's go gamers

[Ydrasse]

yeah but it's the perfect cover for you two if you're teamed >_>

that post though would be too like. idk. i don't think you could fake that guilt and you don't drop the act midway through

[Ydrasse]

if yin is contradicting himself and lying i don't think we should care about the criminal thing anymore like. at this point we have no reason to reckon that it's helpful when he Killed A Confirmed Townie. basing reads on it and reaching conclusions of "one of x/y" using it as a hallmark seems really dumb and i'm sorry if that's mean but it's true

[Ydrasse]

...

oh

[Ydrasse]

well i am dumb as bricks and we're pretending this didn't happen

[Ydrasse]

These last few pages are not very promising

[Ydrasse]

let's get to 126

it was all just a dream

[Ydrasse]

really?

i don't think that infinity enjoys playing scum a lot and if that's the case she might've just bit the bullet for scum early on

[Ydrasse]

my perception is that flea has the wim to go to endgame over infinity especially in a setup where things are wacking having had to beat down flea in royalty

i think that infinity getting wagoned often and early in games probably didnt hurt her going down fast either

[Ydrasse]

yeah uh

my tinfoil on flea probably doesnt hold weight or matter but i feel like im pointing at the whiteboard going "fae is ACTING SO STRANGE BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD EXPECT IT WITH THE TEAM FAE HAD"

[Ydrasse]

do we have confirmation yin could’ve blown up ircher whenever he wanted or am i missing something

[Ydrasse]

oh my god flea like

i’m genuinely trying to understand right now but why do we care about a poe given to us by someone who is evil?

[Ydrasse]

because yin didn’t give us our wincon either

[Ydrasse]

do you genuinely think that we would be handed a poe just like that?

[Ydrasse]

i promise you i’m not condescending to you right now when i ask do you think that the mods of this game would make a game that could be cracked open that easily knowing people would engage with the mechanics?

[Ydrasse]

okay like

i just fundamentally disagree with how you’re approaching this game right now but i don’t think that’s gonna go anywhere

flea who do you want to vote as town the most?

[Ydrasse]

i’ll accept that you’re not gonna vote for tanner/chara rn but at least knowing what you think outside of that like. i’ll drop the questions about the yin stuff if you can give me that

[Ydrasse]

can you answer my question please?

[Ydrasse]

e_e

[Ydrasse]

let me out

[Ydrasse]

assuming you’re not gonna be around at all / much who do you wanna vote today tweet?

not to like rush you for content but if you vanish and it all goes to shit i’m blaming you (joke)

[Ydrasse]

i’m gonna kill your wagon by voting for myself tanner

[Ydrasse]

i’m gonna kill your wagon by voting for myself tanner

and yet she has not!!

actually what are your reads rn Ydrasse?

i couldn’t do that to him at this point.... also if he flips and flips town this game will be a lot smoother

tanner
mt

pooky
flea

you
clidd

something like this without a reread? no one is especially scummy in the present but i only remember the good things that stick out about people which has been tanner and then most of what mt’s posted. like.

i can’t remember anything you’ve said this game for the big wagons which is kiiiind of on me because i think of your posts as... quieter? not as bombastic as like a pooky or tanner having a breakdown over a wagon lol. but you didn’t? have any stances that jump to mind for me.

i’ll probably just slap a vote down on flea as my final town because fae is frustrating but if tanner is town i don’t think fae doubles down and hopes this is how the town flips and goes “yes fae is town”. which i know i could be falling for the wifom if flea is scum but like. you have to win somehow and refuge in oddity and audacity isn’t it this game with people who are all receptive of /each other/ and not the yin-takes. or pooky i guess but i still have yesterday in mind with those mt interactions

why are you town, chara?

[Ydrasse]

please appreciate me writing that on my phone

[Ydrasse]

I’m lowkey kind’ve wondering why Tweetie wasn’t IC’d instead of me, because I haven’t been doing as much.
I’m feeling kind’ve of frustrated with Ydrasse for totally dismissing my theory because I’m not 100% confident in wroting it off just yet. That doesn’t however change my read on her.

i'm not feeling good at all so don't expect a lot from me tonight but, what theory do you mean?

also @tanner with my dying (living?) breath i will tell these people to vote you next if i'm heading out you are my top townread and i do not think you could fake this game as scum

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: ydrasse

there you go

[Ydrasse]

i cant skulk away into the night

i really think that tanner is town that's my strongest read and i know that like, amy has some doubts but i really think he should be next. it will also give context finally to the criminal thing and since i think he's gonna flip town it should help people recalibrate from the criminal stuff, do mt next after him and then from there hopefully people will have posted enough to have ironed out the final townie who will probably be like you or flea

[Ydrasse]

Can anyone explain to me why Chara is scum because it sounds here? It’s play here reads
very much like its play in FL v Hectic and nothing at all like in Pokemon Battles.

Well at least I’m getting listened to on my Pooky locktown read.

Fwiw @Flea, I doubt Yin laid out the entire mafia team. Scum designated two of their members to sentence, so I think either both Tanner/Chara are town or just one of them. If only one is town, I still feel the best aboutChara.

Yin also told Pooky that there were an even number of scum in Pooky/Clidd/Tweetie, which contradicts his Tanner/Chara reads.

My theory and (feel free to call this “dumb” Ydra - I really don’t believe it is ) - is there is possibly one scum from each group, Pooky excluded.

So, one scum in Tweetie/Clidd and one in Tanner/Chara.

I’m not wedded to this but I really think it’s extremely silly to outright dismiss it. If this is totally wrong, then browbeat me post-game.

Wifom isn’t complete meaningless.

People should seriously think what it means, that everyone but me thinks Chara is scum. I’m also not convinced on Clidd!scum either. Infinity’s ISO looks somewhat antipartnery for Clidd and then Nakata kept trying to tie him to him but my read on Clidd is not very strong. I think at least one town between Tweetie/Clidd.

i dont think that chara is especially scummy (i havent reread and only have its word for things atm though) but there are townier people; i feel chara is doing more that i can recall lately but that's recency and there's nothing Bad in what it's saying it's just like... blending in for me in a way that feels beneficial to scum trying to eek in that final place versus towny slots but idk. it could also just be town that just hasn't done as much, but i don't have a scumread on chara

if your theory is the case though, it's probably clidd/chara which...? i know you don't have the same read on tanner as i do but i really, really think he's town and i hope you listen to me if you send me out? like of all the reads i have this game this is the one i am most confident on like. i'll even give you my Blessing to send out pooky if you send out tanner for me lol. but he's done the same things i have all game, the same pushes, and i know that some of your read on me is meta but i'm confident that tanner's been samebraining with me too much for him to be scum

[Ydrasse]

kinda worried there's not a lot of meat on those reads Ydra ngl -.-

i haven't reread so i'm going a lot off of memory right now; tanner's pushes being the exact same as mine all game and having the same sort of turns when i do; mt's emotional reactions; your interactions, also with mt; and then the rest is like... flea which is town (?) for *hand waves* whatever flea is up to, and then clidd and chara who i am still rolling around over

if you want me to provide more 'meat' for you on a reread it probably isn't going to be tonight because i have a splitting headache though

[Ydrasse]

i am convinced that tanner + mt are town and i have been solid on the former all game though? and mt not as much but pretty damn certain

the rest i'm not as sure on though, yeah. but is that a problem when i'm saying "yeah this is 3/4 and then you guys just need to find 1 more and this is what i think probably wins for us anyways"?

[Ydrasse]

PLEASE

we've played the exact same game and i would rather die than assume he's flipping red when we have been hand in hand all game pointing out people together which like... to me having the same progressions in a game like this also makes me feel like he's uninformed. he isn't doing this as some performative masterpiece and he's noticed the same things i have about infinity, thought robert was uh... yeah. yeah. and then nakata as well, it just feels like there's too many similarities for him to be faking it and he's done the legwork as well to back it up (that bigass wallpost on daystart of day...2? comes to mind immediately), it doesn't feel like he's jus going through the motions throwing out the reads that'll carry him. also the fact that he's had some of his emotional flailing is something i don't think he'd try to channel into his game as scum given that it would probably look a lot weirder when he's faking it. i've been tricked by tanner before when he's scum but i don't think he's tricking me this game

[Ydrasse]

you can reread like, i'm not gonna hammer myself clearly

i'd offer to unvote so no one /else/ can hammer me but i think you'd like that less

[Ydrasse]

and if you're town i'd rather work with you if/before i get sent out so we can figure out who should be in that last place and like, get to the point where i believe as confidently in the other two that someone is Actually Flipping TOwn

[Ydrasse]

i know you're not doubting tanner you're doubting my reasons /for/ reading tanner like i do and i'm just trying to word vomit at you why i have them

and yes i know that that's why i was being silly because you're gonna worry regardless

[Ydrasse]

okay that's fair

i'd say i'd do the same but 134 pages when i wanna vomit does not feel like the Move right now so i'll be around skulking in the night

[Ydrasse]

by progressions i meant like... the wagons that we ended up on/going for, if that makes sense, like ending up on infinity + robert, even if it took me time to come around to thinking robert was actually scummy and not just limbait; we ended up at the same places, readwise.

i also stand by ircher not playing to his scum meta at all from the experiences i've had with him, even if he was intentionally changing his style

[Ydrasse]

(the ircher meta i'm using for reference is titus v nancy drew where he was obvscum on the first day)

[Ydrasse]

@pooky if you want to talk to me about stuff just lmk but yell at me if i try to reply tonight i feel like i'm gonna puke

good night everyone

[Ydrasse]

i can't sleep don't yell at me but i don't feel as much like puking

the thing with my laptop was that i had spilled something on my main one so it was drying out and i brought out my old one but not the charger like a fool. if i am lying about that in a game i am fucking hopeless LMAO

and as for the nakata thing, pooke, if i wanted to have a better stance on nakata i would have actually written the case. like if i am informed, and i know my partner is doing a ton of scummy things and i know what the wincon is going to be later, i don't just go "yeah i was doing this case but now i can't remember so i'm just gonna not bother with it right now." i want to have good reason to push him through later on so that people will actually be on board and i don't pitstop for robert on the way going "yeah this dude sucks let's get him instead". like i even admitted i thought the reasons i had for nakata weren't the best so i slowed my roll there

like the entire goal at that point would be for me to produce a case for tanner that he wanted to reassure him instead of handwaving it

[Ydrasse]

also: i feel pretty ill right now so my brain is shut off but i have more reasons to think that flea could be town than i do robert. i'm willing to give nakata some time but he's quickly falling into the same pattern for me as robert: not around a lot, feels like he's around a bit more when he's talked about? he's at least done some solving. not sure if infinity's voting on nakata clears him necessarily but robertvote is goodvote

VOTE: robert

infinity re nakata

Spoiler:

VOTE: nakata I like this

I agree, nakata's theory seems like he just tried to come up with a justification for TRing ydrasse and SRing the others on his wagon and it at least doesn't seem thought through.

Ok but can we elim nakata? The whole interaction with Amy looked like he wanted to maintain his scumread without having to argue about it. I do feel like Amy was overreacting to his scumread, and I understand why he wanted to avoid that argument, but I'd expect town who believed in their read to at least push on it, or like give reasons, or something.

-Nakata said that the people on his wagon were trying to get ydrasse to look bad after he flipped town, that seems like something scum would never do and seems made up

-Nakata's SR on amy had like no reasoning and it felt like he was trying to appease amy in their interactions which he wouldn't do as town

PEdit: I don't know, maybe he thought I was limbait anyway

Nakata is saying that Amy Dunne is telling a lie by saying that Nakata was hardpushing Robert M Hunter when Nakata has done no such thing!

Nakata would appreciate Amy Dunne not taking personal insult, Nakata has no problems with anyone in this playerlist, Nakata simply thinks that Amy Dunne is scum. Nakata doesn't know what Amy Dunne is expecting him to say when she says "tell me why I'm wrong on you". Nakata has already told you that he is town!

Nakata does not believe Amy Dunne. Nakata thinks that if Amy Dunne is scum, that's exactly what she'd say, and that her attempts to push Nakata while not being accurate in her depiction of what Nakata has done this game show that her primary interest is in limming him and not sorting him, whereas if she were town Nakata thinks she'd be more interested in the sorting part.

@amy He's spending more time talking about how you shouldn't be upset that he's scumreading you and saying that he scumreads you rather than explaining his actual reasoning. The reasoning itself has a lot to do with you saying he was hardpushing Robert instead of just pushing Robert. It's all very fake.

Nakata does not understand getting upset with someone because they may be misreading you. If Amy Dunne is a friend and Nakata is wrong, then Nakata is not upset with Amy Dunne for misreading him. Nakata wishes Amy Dunne all the best. However, Nakata does not believe Amy Dunne to be town and does not think asserting that she is town is enough reason to believe this, especially given that Nakata knows she is pushing someone who Nakata does know is town.

Infinity, how do you get “appeasement” from this?

He's not trying to push you, he's just repeating that he scumreads you and saying that you shouldn't get upset over it.

We should lim nakata

VOTE: nakata

Ircher is confusing, nakata is scummy

infinity only votes nakata when he's beginning to receive votes from amy and clidd. it's actually the first time that infinity mentions nakata at all and then spends a good amount of time fixating on him. idk if that means that infinity was trying to distance from nakata for towncred or to try and protect top wagon at the time (robert, on 3 and then chara on 2). it feels like infinity put like, all her effort into this one read so like, can someone smarter figure out what was going on here.

nakata actually doing stuff would make this a lot easier to solve him i think but we don't always get what we want i guess

if robert scum, nakata town: robert was at that point at 3 votes, but with amy + clidd voting nakata infinity throws one down making it top wagon over robert, trying to protect partner

if nakata scum, robert town: trying to get town credit by throwing partner under the bus, which i think is not entirely unlikely because of the attention to detail infinity gave nakata compared to her other reads

if nakata scum, robert scum: lol

looking at it like this though, i'm inclined to believe the first choice makes slightly more sense. this requires a metacheck though to see how into bussing infinity is

like @pooky it feels like you're ignoring the parts where i am going ??? maybe town nakata maybe not??? and wavering back and forth /because/ i wasn't as positive in my reasons and you're trying to case me like this is a a normal game of mafia instead of realizing that this is actually clearing for me lol

[Ydrasse]

i was actually so mad at the time i didn't want to engage with it much / go back through to put in the time and it would have been the same things i had already said about him so far

and then after the fact i actually couldn't remember what i saw that was So Bad in the moment of writing the case, and trying to rekindle it wasn't working so i dropped it

which sometimes does just... happen for me. i don't go back a lot so if i have it in the moment and don't get it down it gets lost

[Ydrasse]

i've forgotten important things before and just left them be, if you want an example i can think of at least 1 off the top of my head

but like, even so i think that if i am scum with nakata i... definitely don't forget, yes? i just write something for tanner to appease him and move on?

[Ydrasse]

at that point i had been saying "oh robert shouldn't be voted for now he's definitely limbait it feels lazy to give into that" and also defending ircher because he was playing unlike his scum meta

and then robert comes in and stomps all over that by doing a scummy vote on someone i townread so of course i am going to be like "well fuck am i wrong"

[Ydrasse]

i don't think me having caught ircher almost immediately for him playing a certain way and seeing him /not/ play like that is a bad defense by any means and i believed it. especially when he made that one longer post that felt like he was actually thinking about this game rather than ignoring it/giving reasons not to solve and hiding behind those all game.

the robert one wasn't the best but i changed my mind on that because the dude was playing uh. i want to be nice but *smiles at his play*.

[Ydrasse]

(1) What do you think about Nakata voting Ircher?

Probably town. I think 946 is the more telling post though whereas the vote itself is kinda null.

(2) Assuming an Ircher scumflip, which hypothetical partners would you have in mind?

If I flipped scum, I would look in the people defending me. That being said, I'm not, so this question is rather pointless for me to answer.

(3) What do you think about Nakata?

Overall, it's mixed signals, but it is that aspect that makes me lean more towards town.

Let's take for instance his recent pivot back to Tweet. 1481 is a comment about Tweet being under the radar. I buy that actually, but you have to be careful with how you interpret that. By under the radar, we aren't talking slipping by snd coasting like lazy scum. No, the way to interpret this is that Tweet isn't receiving a lot of attention; instead, people are more or less dismissing her as town. Whether this dismissal is justified is not relevant.

1548 is a bit hypocritical and Tweet called him out for it, but it makes sense with the current trajectory that Nakata is pushing. 1550 rings as town to me; it has the right level of conviction to it, yet at the same time, he acknowledges his own biases/limitations. While individually not distinctive, it's the combination that stands out. Scum are either lacking in conviction (because they want to keep their options open) or don't admit the limitations of their reads (because they want them to go through, especially if it is for a mislim).

1558 is based on what I'd consider accurate facts and is a fair analysis. Despite the number of times my name has come up, it is only very recently that any real wagon has formed on me. Both the Nakata and Infinity wagon built up in a much shorter period of time.

Last thing to note is that the pivot though maybe ill-timed, didn't come from left field. Nakata has expressed a pretty consistent stance with regards to Tweet; it's only the relative strength of the read that has wavered some.

(4) What do you think about Nakata' initial paranoia on the players who were inside his wagon?

I assume you are referring to roughly 851 and nearby posts here. I think it's a natural reaction pretty much everyone initially has to their own wagon. It's just the nature of one's personal bias.

(5) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Nakata's iso?

I'm not paying enough attention to give a definitive worst/best post. I think many of the posts I've linked above go towards towniness (though some are more neutral/nai). The posts like 903 where Nakata seems worried about how his posting style is perceived strike me as his worst posts.

(6) What do you think about Robert?

His vote was the worst of the six I quoted. Most of my views probably align with Tanner's on this slot. I do think he is doing what is most convenient for his survival, and I wasn't a fan of 738 or 741 where he basically says everyone is scum. I don't think he did a good job responding when I tried to get some insight into his thought process around 1222 and later. Also in response to 1240: I don't have a read on Ydrasse and probably won't have one. Her playstyle is not the kind that "fits" so to speak to my scumhunting sensitives. 1244 by the way was an irrelevant remark made in an attempt to dismiss the question.

That being said, I do have reservations of going flat out "Robert is scum." The low hanging fruit argument is one of them. I also think that string of posts that I called him out for (for complaining about others thinking he would get replaced) may come from town even though it reflects poorly. That is, I think the frustration Robert has shown is potentially town.

(7) Do you see scum motivation in Robert's actions?

Depends on how you look at it. Survivalism does seem to be a theme, and that has clear scum motivations.

(8) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Robert's iso?

1244 and 1188 are the worst. I'm not sure there is a best one from him.

(9) What do you think about Chara?

I have no initial thoughts. Glancing through its ISO, 617 and 633 kind of stands out. Chara is very keen on emphasizing 611 is a joke. Idk what to think about it from an alignment standpoint; it just strikes me as weird that Chara feels Ydrasse was offended by it. Maybe I am not reading carefully enough (and Ydrasse was actually offended). 843 and 845 is a respectable analysis of Robert's posts, but I don't think that directly leads to a town read. Overall, no real red flags, but I don't have a read one way or another.

(11) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Chara's iso?

I pretty much answered this, but I'll add the caveat that I've not been exerting much effort or exercising much analysis on Chara's posts in general.

(12) What do you think about Infinity?

Her posts have more or less escaped my notice so far. Take that as you will. Looking through her ISO, she mentions Nakata a bunch. Notably, she is pushing for a Nakata fade. Other than that, I don't really see her pushing much of an agenda. Comparing this to two relatively recently games I've played with Infinity, I'm kind of inclined to say this one actually matches the town one more, but that's a rather shallow meta comparison.

my read on ircher was more meta-based before this but this was the post that made me not want to vote ircher because this isn't the sort of post scum!ircher makes, having seen how he likes to approach it (politically/with a hint more of playing the room as he did on war & peace), here he was actually proving that he had been following the game and considering it even if he wasn't sharing it all at the time. i didn't agree with everything but i had no reason to believe at that point that he was hiding/lying

[Ydrasse]

>_> i don't know

i have three people i want to leave two if you don't want to include me

before this i've erred towards clidd/chara because i don't actually think anyone was playing an especially scummy game. the closest i have to thinking someone is 'scummy' is flea but the reasons that i would think fae is scummy in a traditional game don't make sense for this one.

i've started getting this sinking feeling that you are because you're going after me and given the fact that amy townreads you the second most and puts a lot of stock in you not doing things as scum (which i do still disagree with) it feels like the best chance you have is to go after me right now because if you're scum your partner couldn't do it. and taking out me who i think is pretty solidly a confirmed slot to leave in the moment does wonders for you to win. that and i think the things that you're saying about my game making me bad are things that aren't actually bad

so ya

[Ydrasse]

as for who else it could be fuck if i know but i also don't really care if i'm trying to get 1 more town player and we just throw in flea

[Ydrasse]

i’m going to be the first to admit i don’t remember what you were doing early game pooky but i also have the sense you’re only now kicking it into gear by going after everyone

[Ydrasse]

also if you were actually paranoid about me this would have been closer to the reveal of the wincon

[Ydrasse]

and also the fact that you literally watched me play a setup where the goal was to be the towniest player and you haven’t seemed phased by that or like..: done anything with the knowledge of it

[Ydrasse]

i've started getting this sinking feeling that you are because you're going after me and given the fact that amy townreads you the second most and puts a lot of stock in you not doing things as scum (which i do still disagree with) it feels like the best chance you have is to go after me right now because if you're scum your partner couldn't do it. and taking out me who i think is pretty solidly a confirmed slot to leave in the moment does wonders for you to win. that and i think the things that you're saying about my game making me bad are things that aren't actually bad

if you think scum me tries to get you left behind you don't have any idea how I play trust fall type games as scum.

I usually try to get townies out and target down LHFs. I don't go after the highest townread player.

you only need one person to trust you in trust fall

in this game you’re trying to get everyone to trust you and your partner more than the towniest people, and i’m gonna assume you’re not partnered with mt/tanner, so like of course you don’t get to play this setup like trust fall? what?

[Ydrasse]

also if you were actually paranoid about me this would have been closer to the reveal of the wincon

?

what do you mean?

I had no reason to be paranoid of you until the wincon was revealed.

The reasons I'm using right now are all counter intuitive based on D1 play with the knowledge of what the scum wincon truly was.

I wouldn't have any reason to suspect you prior to this wincon reveal.

yes i’m saying the start of day would’ve been like, an oh god moment for you not before it

[Ydrasse]

and also the fact that you literally watched me play a setup where the goal was to be the towniest player and you haven’t seemed phased by that or like..: done anything with the knowledge of it

?

I don't understand this line, what's your reasoning?

“huh, a setup where scum are trying to look town. i got bodied in this game by someone who i suspect whose goal in that game was to be... a scum who looks town”

there’s a disconnect between your experiences with me and what you’re suggesting to the thread and given that no one else in this game was in that idk why you don’t recall this

[Ydrasse]

i’m going to be the first to admit i don’t remember what you were doing early game pooky but i also have the sense you’re only now kicking it into gear by going after everyone

I am not going after everyone.

I am going over the D1 wagons on Robert/Ircher which fizzled out and reading what happened, who was for, and who was against.

You and Clidd feel very bad to me based on my re-read whereas Datisi/Tweet feel very town to me. I've cited the screenshots that show my line of thinking.

mt + me + clidd so far, even if you were being silly about it with the former

[Ydrasse]

yes i’m saying the start of day would’ve been like, an oh god moment for you not before it

?

You mean yesterday(Sunday) ?

I was at the beach and I didn't have access to a computer, that's why I said repeatedly that you guys shouldn't rush and should let me get a chance to re-read.

I got back home and as very tired so I slept. Then I had time this evening for my re-read.

okay it’s just that you were actually around so i feel like you would have had some mental connection between point a and b but that’s just how i react even if i’m out i think about stuff

[Ydrasse]

you only need one person to trust you in trust fall

in this game you’re trying to get everyone to trust you and your partner more than the towniest people, and i’m gonna assume you’re not partnered with mt/tanner, so like of course you don’t get to play this setup like trust fall? what?

In Trust Fall as well as this game, the only thing the scum have to do is make sure the bottom 2 least trusted people are town.

I don't have to make anyone doubt you to win, I can just target the LHFs in this town if I am scum. For example, Clidd/Chara/Flea are all easier targets for scum!me than you. Even if you assume one of them is my partner, I can simply target the other two.

oh your partner is chara

[Ydrasse]

if nobody else is resetting that majority is still nobody and people /are/ reconsidering. it’s just that we’re coming to the same conclusions because they’re what’s obvious

[Ydrasse]

you only need one person to trust you in trust fall

in this game you’re trying to get everyone to trust you and your partner more than the towniest people, and i’m gonna assume you’re not partnered with mt/tanner, so like of course you don’t get to play this setup like trust fall? what?

In Trust Fall as well as this game, the only thing the scum have to do is make sure the bottom 2 least trusted people are town.

I don't have to make anyone doubt you to win, I can just target the LHFs in this town if I am scum. For example, Clidd/Chara/Flea are all easier targets for scum!me than you. Even if you assume one of them is my partner, I can simply target the other two.

oh your partner is chara

Kind of having trouble believing you believe any of what you're saying to me at this point.

i don’t believe that it’s tanner/mt/probably not flea

you don’t bus anyways and you can’t at this point so clidds out

i think that it’s an easy conclusion to reach

[Ydrasse]

if nobody else is resetting that majority is still nobody and people /are/ reconsidering. it’s just that we’re coming to the same conclusions because they’re what’s obvious

who else is re-reading?

I feel like I'm the only one going through what happened D1 ?

Everyone else feels like they just want to stay static in their views and just get out of the game?

mt wants to but hasn’t yet / is busy
i want to but haven’t yet / is busy
tanner has been

like you keep saying that everyone’s staying static like it’s a bad thing that their minds aren’t changing to include you 100% of the time

[Ydrasse]

i’m going to be the first to admit i don’t remember what you were doing early game pooky but i also have the sense you’re only now kicking it into gear by going after everyone

I am not going after everyone.

I am going over the D1 wagons on Robert/Ircher which fizzled out and reading what happened, who was for, and who was against.

You and Clidd feel very bad to me based on my re-read whereas Datisi/Tweet feel very town to me. I've cited the screenshots that show my line of thinking.

mt + me + clidd so far, even if you were being silly about it with the former

no I am not going after MT.

I in fact said in my re-read that she was +++town for moving her vote from the (4)-vote Nakata wagon to the (3)-vote Ircher wagon and making Ircher the lead wagon, this caused Ircher to go to 6 and was the first real threat the scum faced all game after Robert hit 4.

you literally did an entire spiel towards her yesterday going ARE YOU SCUM hello?

[Ydrasse]

i’ll reply tmrw i just threw up

[Ydrasse]

i am just

if you are too let’s reset tmrw i’ll reread afte work right now i’m can’t see you as town but shitfighting riine this game

goodnight

[Ydrasse]

you think who’s pocketing me, tanner??

[Ydrasse]

also @pooky sorry for last night; by the end of us talking my migraine was to the point that it made me sick but i also don’t know how to just not reply when we’re going back and forth like that so it made it a bit like “oh my god i have to keep going going going”. i was the one who forgot that we weren’t playing regular mafia lmao.

[Ydrasse]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

[Ydrasse]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

ok but you should recognize I don't have any necessity to sink you.

I only need to keep

one

townie behind to win if I'm scum. I wouldn't target the highest UTR, that makes honestly no sense as a play to me, especially one who is a top townread of the IC.

That's not wifom to me, that's just playing the game correctly.

Amy knows because she has seen me play trust fall, my entire game plan was making people not trust Jake the Wolf and trying to get the "obvtown" people paired off early.

I'm not stupid enough to attack you as scum unless

I have no other choice

and when i was replying my viewpoint was that your partner was potentially getting iced out; even if you get through you still needed to make room for them and one option is to create doubt because even if amy thinks something you still need a wagon blah blah. in my head it was like, pooky is doing these weird things and he’s trying to get support now on his not-townread partner to get them voted in today while he can or something by taking down the cred of me

[Ydrasse]

if me and pooky are both town fighting i’m going to be zzzzz post game

[Ydrasse]

before anyone goes “NO RUSHING” i am not trying to rush here but amy, could you pick either me or pooky to leave today? if you townread us both and think we are tvt i’d rather have it settled so it doesn’t eat up everything, i’m not sold on pooky being locktown but i’ll vote him if you’re absolutely confident

[Ydrasse]

will you at least give me some good faith and work with me through things?

[Ydrasse]

on that note i ate a sandwich feel sick again and have to go back to work WOOOOO

if i don’t show up tonight i’m dead from whatever is plaguing me

[Ydrasse]

i am still feeling Pretty Shitty so tomorrow when i am hopefully not on the verge of vomiting, but i can do that

the term mindmeld might've been a bit too strong. there haven't been a lot of the small moments that i think usually constitute it but given that we've ended up in the same places more or less at least for the beginning of the game made me comfortable with you being town, i'll go through your iso tomorrow and outline the why but beyond even that i do think you've expressed certain emotions that you can't fake as scum (or maybe you could actually? the only time i've seen you do it i think was theater in that one normal game) and weren't ingenuine about the pushes you made which basically... by mindmeld it's like, we're playing the Same Game and not the one that scum were playing before the reveal: pushing people who are scummy/doing weird things. one thing in particular i found the point where you didn't believe robert was scum nearly as strong to resonante a lot with me because i also was like.. well at this point what the fuck is he doing as scum but also just shrugging at it going through because he needed to go. that big wallcase was something you definitely didn't need to make at that point and maybe it was to like, get some early towncred if you are scum but also i think that you'd be saving that energy for post-reveal? i know you're good at being townread when you are town so, if you are scum i think it's likely you'd want to try and have a big burst later into the game if you're the person going deep. also (and this isn't a dig at you) idk why you would be the person to go deep into the game, i don't think you'd actively want to do it if you had a choice? that's a personality read though becuse i know you're capable but you'd also be dying.

i hope that makes part of it clearer but i am making a vested effort to try not and post as much when i feel bad e_e even if haha here i am. i know that's more or less the same thing i've said before but with a touch more added onto it, tomorrow will be the feast because i do want to actually reread but not while i feel like this

[Ydrasse]

the forbidden silent star mechanic where if you're in the game too long hectic poisons your reply box and kills you with ticking damage

[Ydrasse]

the emotions i recall vividly from that game are you being very irritated/angry but knowing now that /that/ sort of thing you do fake; i was using it as a a gauge of, "i don't think he does the smaller irritations and petty things"; there was one post it hinka bout voting robert ? or infinity d1 that was what i was using as a good baseline for "things tanner doesn't need to post if scum at all and runs the risk of being seen as fake if he doesn't /actually/ feel those things"

i also do think i have mentioned at least part of this before? the emotional aspect i'm positive i have because that's like, one of the main pins in how i read people

[Ydrasse]

clidd seems apathetic but idk if it's really fun if he's got slim odds of actually getting voted which is worse if he is scum..

[Ydrasse]

ahhh

yeah i haven't mentioned it at all because it doesn't have a lot of ~substance~ but i'm posting the things that don't have as much right now and it does influence my impression of you this game. it's not the thing i'm betting on to win tho

[Ydrasse]

basically me playing mafia is an exercise in 'i think a lot of things and never post them' and then i gamethrow

[Ydrasse]

dont feel like engaging w this game atm, low energy + sick, tweets a fine vote

VOTE: tweet

[Ydrasse]

v/la few days

[Ydrasse]

i have no energy at all for anything right now so just point me wherever to vote

if pooky stops his tunnel on me cool if not and i’m iced out hope we can hit town i’ll answer like minimal whatever

sorry for dropping off

[Ydrasse]

flea if it’s wearing you down/you don’t have the energy you don’t have to post

i am learning this lesson as well

[Ydrasse]

speedrun emerald instead
blue i think is easier but gen 3 goes wild

[Ydrasse]

i should do a nuzlocke

[Ydrasse]

UNVOTE:

there you go

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: mt

hammer test yourself

[Ydrasse]

have we asked if yin was scum to yin

i assume so

[Ydrasse]

The endless day is over at last. But the acrid smell still burns in the man's nostrils. The heat hasn't left, it just has a new shape.

"You didn't need me at all, did you? Thats what you wanted to say." He spits out the words, knowing he won't get an answer. The show goes on and he's left standing on an empty stage.

Yin

, why did you detonate Ircher?

Birds fly. Fish swim. Worms wiggle in the dirt.

no he answered this...

[Ydrasse]

who’s playing yang, isis?

[Ydrasse]

fair

i had a dumb theory going on for a moment in my head but i don’t think it matters if yin is bad anyways

[Ydrasse]

who’s playing yin then, pj?

[Ydrasse]

when i am home i will pour my energy into it. by that i mean a trickle

i don’t think pj writes like that but she could also be trying to blend in and not be picked out? idk it’s what makes sense if isis is playing yang

[Ydrasse]

i don’t think hectic would play any npcs

this felt more important in the moment i thought about it but now ifk where i was going

[Ydrasse]

the energy trickling into replying later yes

[Ydrasse]

hectic isn’t as self serious when he writes and would be sillier i think

it’s probs just pj pulling wool

[Ydrasse]

LMAO

you’re right actually it’s him

[Ydrasse]

idk it felt strange for me to not identify pj immediately as yin when we know yang but also it’s just like

do i care if yin is scum ignoring us

my brains mush today

[Ydrasse]

hmm

i guess to me i have ~familiarity~ with hectic and it’s like

it’s not as bombastic as i think he’d be when i think of “things hectic likes to write story wise” maybe he wants to blend in but it’s also bastard to have a mod helping the scum team

[Ydrasse]

is isis playing them both LOL

[Ydrasse]

i’ll go... ask him

[Ydrasse]

maybe i’m wrong and it is hectic but i just don’t get the “i am most inspired by undertale and lighthearted stories with good humor” feeling from him

i know he can be serious and maybe i’m not giving him credit but idk

[Ydrasse]

after ss3 i would actually believe hectic would make a game thats more fun/better for scum and something like that fits right in lol

[Ydrasse]

yin is hectic there is only one scum left other than him this is the game we're supposed to vote the mod

[Ydrasse]

im gonna be real with you i want to be doing things but i am sick and very much just not in a place where i want to be posting much at all beyond meme/low effort, i know chara wanted me to reply to its towncase but mafia isnt doing me wonders rn

[Ydrasse]

its shitty but after the other night im kind of backburnering everything

[Ydrasse]

if i have the spoons ill post some stuff =) we're not in a rush though so maybe the weekend will be kinder

[Ydrasse]

:> i think he's town so it'd be fine but uh

i feel like if you put tanner at e-1 he hammers himself to get out of this mess

[Ydrasse]

e_e

[Ydrasse]

sorry @pooky

[Ydrasse]

i think we have to figure out flea Now, which is obvious but it didn't feel as urgent to me before we had a bit more breathing room, but i don't know if fae is going to like... cooperate? like

@flea this is very much a plea for you to, at least for a bit, play 'traditional mafia' to sort you because all i have right now are speculations on your motivations and like, "oh would flea do this as town or scum?" and no reads or actions to judge you off of and if youre town that fucking sucks!! i can look at everyone else here and see they have tried to solve and figure out something and i go back if i want to and read these things and draw conclusions but with you you've dug your heels in so much like, do you actually /townread me/ or does it just fit within the yin thing?

[Ydrasse]

like genuinely my impression at this point is that you want to be RIGHT about things more than you want to actually solve and that doesn't help anyone except scum which if you are, kudos to you i guess?

[Ydrasse]

:/

[Ydrasse]

okay i guess. lol.

[Ydrasse]

part of me really wants to go "flea doesnt say That as scum" but i dont fucking know

[Ydrasse]

ehhh

physically yes emotionally... getting there?

[Ydrasse]

you mean the person whom my townread on has kind of fallen off in the last day phase? i'll pass, thanks.

@ydra, i feel like we had ~unfinished conversations~ on your read/mindmeld on me throughout the game, which is why i asked - don't wanna be making you push yourself (god knows this game is a headache) but i feel like that might be useful to talk about in more detail.

idk how long ill be sticking around this afternoon but i'm here now so what's the most like, important to answer immediately?

[Ydrasse]

oh and for the record ydrasse, you are obvious town here for me.
Your approach this game just has the purest townie vibes.

...okay like, if you think im town

you should assume im asking you in good faith to explain why so i can sort /you/? because if youre town i cant read your mind and figure that out from the yin stuff, it doesnt work for me

[Ydrasse]

@tanner

i didn't start off townreading you and your read at me at the start of the game was shitty and i even pointed that out in 193/194; at this point in the game i wasn't really doing anything but you trying to frame me voting someone for having fun felt dumb (192), because i did not think anything at that point in my game was remotely close to solving, and even if it was tongue-in-cheek, i think 197 best conveys the feelings i had towards you at that point (skepticism and irritation)

i pointed out that 344 was something i thought was towny from you which like, is dumb of all the things that i could interact with given you had outed a decent amount of stuff at that time but it felt like... a surprising amount of confidence from scum!tanner given the way i perceive you in my head would be more nervous/unhappy with being scum. i know that that's something easily fakeable but to me (and this is mean maybe? sorry) i do see you like a hand-wringing woe is me sort of scum player who like, even on an alt doesnt just come out and post something like that at all when you don't have to even acknowledge it imo? like if i'm scum i'm just ignoring that sort of post because it's obvious that no one wants to die. that and i think at that point i had mentally went "yeah, i can't really blame him for not liking me being boring" (328) but i wasn't willing to try harder until i wanted to/reach this... level of coherency?

the first time we like, actually 'mindmelded' i think was over infinity sounding weird which... she did to me, and having hindsight now i think she was intentionally trying to make a bad/faulty meta comparison? idk if that makes sense lol but you were the only other person who also went "hmm" over her. like mt + pooky interacted with her read but it wasn't really seen in an AI sense to anyone else but you which made me feel less insane because i wasn't just reading too much into what someone else was saying. retrospect again you /could/ have been scum egging me on but honestly it's relieving when someone agrees with me, even over something small because i don't always have a lot of faith in what i think in games unless someone else is going along with it which is when i start going "okay let's DO THIS."

and also the ircher wagon uh, you actually backed up how i felt about him? like, even if we weren't expressing it the same way i very much thought ircher wasn't being scummy and you were like, "no this feels like it was on town." (in the 573 area), which was also something i appreciated a lot because i was getting frustrated with people not like... listening to me i guess and then the chara vote that pissed me off after kind of made me go back mentally like "fuck these people at least i have one person in my field". even if you didn't think i was town at the time like... we had the same things going on. which is also part of why i was pissy about you not being able to see that i was town immediately because to me we were trying to do the same things and for some reason you didnt get it and i felt like you knew what town me looks like? but also if you were pushing things that i was also confident in i have no reason to doubt you in return early on because like, we'll get there eventually with reads if something's fucked? idk if that was me being gassed up because i felt good and a return to fey's Sheer Correct Energy but i didn't feel the need to reconsider you being like, a decent townread d1. also going back and seeing the consistency that you were pushing robert with feels like... reassuring in the present even if id on't need it now, posts like 796 are actively against wincon unless you feel a need to set yourself up perfectly for this point which i don't think anyone actually does honestly? which sounds dumb but it's a lot of work to put in//a long investment that might end up fucking you over.

you did lose me for a while in the robert area v satoru area but i just didn't agree at the moment, there were times where i went like "what is he doing" and i wasn't like, 100% sold but i felt good about you still? your actions didn't feel like they added up to something scum wanted to do because you were kind of like, a bit all over the place and the robert thing was going on too and it didn't make sense for you to scream about that compared to other stuff you could have been doing like letting the ircher wagon just go through and not make people pay attention to you (which i don't think you'd want as scum because as town you admit that you're fairly obvious town) but you sort of like. idk. over time it also did become easier because i felt a little bit of the 'tanner' persona drop which helped me because i rely on tonal familiarity a lot when im trying to solve things (see: ircher not being a Friendly Agenda-Driven Dude)

and then infinity flipped scum at the end and that's d1. going through all of this was tiring so i'll save the rest for later probably but, i hope that you can understand that at least the core of how i've read you + the samebrain things to some degree. the end of this is a bit of a mess but trying to reconstruct exactly what i would have felt weeks ago also feels like a jigsaw puzzle with a third of the pieces missing anyways, i can elaborate more later if i feel up to it