Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[Pug89]

@Pug: Who do you think is the last 2 scum in this game and why?

ortolan obviously, he seems to be desperately trying to find anything to deflect suspicion from himself, but his reasoning is based on little more than some weak accusations of distancing. Other than that, my next highest suspicions are Reck and SC. SC did some things early in the game( late D1 and D2 mostly) that I don't like and I'm not really sure why ortolan is convinced he is town. Reck's attitude towards yesterday's lynch (NL and then switching to hammering when KOC's lynch was assured) as well a few accusations he has made that had little or no reasoning behind him (at one point he insisted farside was digging herself a hole and he said he thought I was scum but I think I asked for an explanation on both and didn't receive an explanation for either.)

looked up, sure enough farside replaced Jason. Blatant distancing.

This isn't the first time you have said something is distancing when there is little to indicate that is the case. Jason didn't make a single post in the game it isn't unreasonable to ask were he is.

elvis and SerialClergyman are incredibly obvious town. I would say CTD is too but I'm sure he's capable of being sneaky too so I wouldn't commit him to a town read just yet. He would of course have to be revisited when Pug and farside are lynched and flip town, but I somehow doubt either of them would flip town.

You're quick to say a large chunk of the players left in the game are town and you seem very confident in your reads in general, but I'm not seeing a lot to back them up.

I know (and already claimed) that I got a vig ability from imprinting- getting this over and over again would be useless, seeing as we already agreed not to vig. So I can only assume elvis (not that I doubt she is town) doesn't have a vig (she either has something else that she claimed, or something else that she didn't claim). I am wondering if she has claimed what ability she has. There is no point imprinting someone who is "obv-town" unless their ability has some use.

This post confuses me. Do you understand how the imprints work exactly? Elvis has never been imprinted so she doesn't have an ability and as I understand it imprints would be different every time.

Yer so basically farside claimed a practically useless doctor ability in contrast to the (proven) vig claim by thebuttonmen and the (subjectively proven) vig claim by me.

How are either of your roles proven?

I'm a little unsure as to why yesterday started with a vote on KoC instead of waiting for claims though, CTD.

Claims on what exactly? We didn't imprint last night so there isn't anything to claim.

[ortolan]

. I agree with you that elvis is town, that's the only other read I feel confident of atm.

Basically I would also really not want to imprint anyone else unless we are certain beyond reasonable doubt they are town. The current game state is biased, some would almost say broken in town's favour- the only surefire way of getting the scum back in the game is by empowering a bunch of them.

He think elvis is town and is confident but doesn't want to imprint her.
Obvious scum.

Imprinting leads to more WIFOM. They shouldn't imprint anyone after the lynch me. Then they know the only living person imprinted was you, and you're not going to be able to pretend the nightkills are coming from someone else.

[ortolan]

You guys are missing the point, I literally don't see how the setup can be anywhere close to being balanced if elvis-town would in fact get anything useful out of being imprinted. A sane cop would just be ridiculous. Tracker/watcher is useless when scum can't target anyone until they're empowered. At best she will probably get another vig, which she won't use (or will claim not to use if she is in fact scum). There is literally no foreseeable town benefit to imprinting. You are confusing the mere fact that a feature is present with there being a good reason for using it.

[ortolan]

The way elvis and Pug so unswervingly stay on my wagon is so obv-scum.

How are either of your roles proven?

Well Buttonmen flipped town so you know he was telling the truth, and I'm about to flip town so you know I was telling the truth.

[ortolan]

Imprint: Virginia

By all means imprint elvis to see what she gets and see how it interacts with the other claimed abilities so far. But make sure you lynch farside in the same day. Leaving two people with imprints alive into the late game is...irresponsible and imprinting even more will be disastrous.

[farside22]

. I agree with you that elvis is town, that's the only other read I feel confident of atm.

Basically I would also really not want to imprint anyone else unless we are certain beyond reasonable doubt they are town. The current game state is biased, some would almost say broken in town's favour- the only surefire way of getting the scum back in the game is by empowering a bunch of them.

He think elvis is town and is confident but doesn't want to imprint her.
Obvious scum.

Imprinting leads to more WIFOM. They shouldn't imprint anyone after the lynch me. Then they know the only living person imprinted was you, and you're not going to be able to pretend the nightkills are coming from someone else.

I don't have a kill ability. I don't have anything. No one has killed but thanks for the WIFOM .
Koc scum didn't try to imprint me can you explain why that is?

ort now trying to outguess the mod and calling EK scum in the same breathe.

Well Buttonmen flipped town so you know he was telling the truth, and I'm about to flip town so you know I was telling the truth.

AtE much here. Lets see you lynch me and you see I'm telling the truth about my imprint. Look what I did.
Either no scum was imprinted day 3 since I know I'm town..... but 2 vigs.....I really would have a serious chat with the mod if he game 2 players that are town a vig ability why did I get the doc ability then? Makes no sense to vig those abilities only to 3 town. There should be something more.

[ortolan]

Koc scum didn't try to imprint me can you explain why that is?

Because you instructed him in your quicktopic not to in order to minimise connections between the two of you?

[farside22]

Koc scum didn't try to imprint me can you explain why that is?

Because you instructed him in your quicktopic not to in order to minimise connections between the two of you?

So if believe pug is scum then your saying no scum was on my imprint then?

[ortolan]

Farside has barely been attacked all game. As far as I remember, xRECKx is the only person to express strong suspicion of her. It would have been easy for any other player to join her imprint wagon without betraying any previous stance they took. Instead, mostly everyone is refraining because of weak strategic reasoning. Socrates is the only one who's apparently paranoid that SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one. If more people were against her imprint because of legitimate doubts of her being pro-town, I'd be much more inclined to believe that the anti-farside-imprint sentiment is pro-town driven.

This is an interesting take. In fact I agree that I don't think the "anti-farside-imprint sentiment" was pro-town driven, because I think everyone on her imprint wagon except herself was town.

[elvis_knits]

Why is ortolan calling me scum and voting to imprint me?

Is this the part where scum try to confuse us by acting crazy?

[ortolan]

hey hey hey, you could at least oblige me by reading my posts

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry I just saw you call me obv-scum and imprint me so I thought I could logically skip the rest.

[ortolan]

the post I guess you're referring to should have read "farside", which I would think would be obvious from the context if you read any of my other posts.

[elvis_knits]

I feel like you don't understand how the imprints actually work.

I'm not sure if this is because you haven't read the rules or any of the game, or if this is because you are scum and the scum imprints work differently than the town imprints.

For example, you keep talking about how an imprint will work with the claimed imprints or something...

Town imprints give a one-night power. Scum imprints happen over and over once they get the power.

[ortolan]

yes, I am aware of how they work, which is why I said imprinting multiple people is stupid when the two protown people who've been imprinted so far merely obtained vigs, which are useless for confirming them or anyone else. I wonder what you expect to get which is so protown, as something like a cop investigation would just make the setup completely broken; whereas no alternatives seem to be of any investigative use to me.

[farside22]

Farside has barely been attacked all game. As far as I remember, xRECKx is the only person to express strong suspicion of her. It would have been easy for any other player to join her imprint wagon without betraying any previous stance they took. Instead, mostly everyone is refraining because of weak strategic reasoning. Socrates is the only one who's apparently paranoid that SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one. If more people were against her imprint because of legitimate doubts of her being pro-town, I'd be much more inclined to believe that the anti-farside-imprint sentiment is pro-town driven.

This is an interesting take. In fact I agree that I don't think the "anti-farside-imprint sentiment" was pro-town driven, because I think everyone on her imprint wagon except herself was town.

So in your view to make yourself look better is to throw WIFOM on the one player that was imprinted and didn't have scum imprinting me.
Even though we showed VMD imprinting KOC.

[farside22]

Farside has barely been attacked all game. As far as I remember, xRECKx is the only person to express strong suspicion of her. It would have been easy for any other player to join her imprint wagon without betraying any previous stance they took. Instead, mostly everyone is refraining because of weak strategic reasoning. Socrates is the only one who's apparently paranoid that SC and farside are trying to pull a fast one. If more people were against her imprint because of legitimate doubts of her being pro-town, I'd be much more inclined to believe that the anti-farside-imprint sentiment is pro-town driven.

This is an interesting take. In fact I agree that I don't think the "anti-farside-imprint sentiment" was pro-town driven, because I think everyone on her imprint wagon except herself was town.

So in your view to make yourself look better is to throw WIFOM on the one player that was imprinted and didn't have scum imprinting me.
Even though we showed VMD imprinting KOC.

I should say so far as we know know no scum imprinted me. I'm sure ort will say this was a slip and make a big deal out of it.

[SerialClergyman]

I remain convinced elvis and farside are town. I don't see anything to this push.

[SerialClergyman]

Although I do think farside you're totally off base iwth the 'vig vs doc' imprint thing. I think they're probably random.

If we hit scum with our next lynch we could go imprint crazy and imprint everyone, that's be 6 town imprints to 1 scum.

Even 6 town imprints to 2 scum isn't terrible, but losing 2 mislynches is too hefty a price, I think.

[ortolan]

summary: farside and pug are scum, this is obvious if you read my posts

I have explicit town reads on everyone else except Plum/Socrates however I would reexamine CTD if either of farside or pug turned out to not be scum

imprinting has no foreseeable protown benefit

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #55=-

Florida (4) - Alaska, Kansas, Montana, Virginia
Montana (1) - Florida

Not Voting (3) - Colorado, Georgia, Iowa

5 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #55=-

Virginia (4) - Iowa, Kansas, Alaska, Florida
Kansas (2) - Kansas, Alaska
Iowa (2) - Iowa, Kansas
Colorado (1) - Iowa
Georgia (0)
Alaska (0)
Florida (0)
Montana (0)

5 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
COLORADO = CrashTextDummie
FLORIDA = ortolan
GEORGIA = Socrates
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

[farside22]

Although I do think farside you're totally off base iwth the 'vig vs doc' imprint thing. I think they're probably random.

If we hit scum with our next lynch we could go imprint crazy and imprint everyone, that's be 6 town imprints to 1 scum.

Even 6 town imprints to 2 scum isn't terrible, but losing 2 mislynches is too hefty a price, I think.

You could be right but I hope not.

Ort the only thing you have been saying is trying to paint me as scum do to the fact that KOC didn't imprint me nor did VMD. KOC imprinted me and then back tracked.
I even am looking to clear people so town is more known. All you have done is say look I'm telling the truth because of buttonman. It's bs anyone can claim what you did. I could have claimed vig being the last to claim and would have been smart for a scum move but you dodge my questions and use strawman to answer others.

[SerialClergyman]

Well - you weren't given a choice, so it's not a scum choice. Buttonman wasn't scum, so it's not scum=offensive (vig), town=defensive (doc). I don't know what further evidence suggests it's anything but random.

[xRECKONERx]

CAN YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY PLEASE IMPRINT ME

[farside22]

CAN YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY PLEASE IMPRINT ME

Don't look at me I'm imprinting you and according to mister let me make a case on nothing there I'm scum.