Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #48=-

Ohio (3) - Virginia, Georgia, Colorado
Colorado (1) - Alaska
No Lynch (1) - Ohio

Not Voting (4) - Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Montana

5 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #48=-

Alaska (3) - Ohio, Virginia, Alaska
Kansas (3) - Virginia, Kansas, Alaska
Virginia (3) - Virginia, Kansas, Alaska
Iowa (2) - Ohio, Iowa
Florida (0)
Georgia (0)
Montana (0)
Ohio (0)

5 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
COLORADO = CrashTextDummie
FLORIDA = ortolan
GEORGIA = Socrates
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Knight of Cydonia
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

-=elvis_knits, Knight of Cydonia and ortolan have been prodded=-

[ortolan]

hello, very sorry about inactivity, reading this game tonight

[Knight of Cydonia]

Right now I'm for a KOC lynch today, although he has barely posted anything today. Wasn't he getting replaced? I'm not going to vote for him now because he already has 3 votes and another would put him a L-1, but more than likely that will be were my vote goes today.

You're willing to vote me, but essentially, you want the hammer, since you refuse to put me at L-1, is that it?

[elvis_knits]

KOC needs to die.

Pug is still doing barely enough to convince me they have a pulse. Not impressed.

[farside22]

KOC needs to die.

Pug is still doing barely enough to convince me they have a pulse. Not impressed.

I think koc is scum i'm torn mostly by what reck stated about if we mislynch at this point.

[elvis_knits]

Hmmmm

I guess I see what Reck means.

I'm not sure that we will learn that much considering last time we got (apparently) two vig imprints and one doc imprint, which told us nothing. But I guess it can't hurt. Well, unless we imprint scum.

Pretty sure KOC is scum though.

And let's not forget whose hammer saved KOC from lynch yesterday?

Reckoner.

And whose plan to no-lynch would save KOC today?

Reckoner.

[xRECKONERx]

Ill Lynch KOC tomorrow if we no lynch and imprint today

[farside22]

Ill Lynch KOC tomorrow if we no lynch and imprint today

What difference does that make?

[xRECKONERx]

Night actions

[farside22]

Night actions

Listen. I'm trying here. Really I am but your not making sense to me.
If lynching KOC is a good thing and you agree he is scummy enough to be lynched tomorrow. Why wait for night actions if your going to lynch him no matter what?

[Pug89]

You're willing to vote me, but essentially, you want the hammer, since you refuse to put me at L-1, is that it?

Vote: KOC

I was going to give you more time to respond, but clearly that's not going to happen and at this point your lynch is pretty much a forgone conclusion.

Also, why are you imprinting who you are? At one point you said you were for imprinting the same people who had been previously imprinted but you didn't vote to imprint either of the previous imprintees still in the game.

Listen. I'm trying here. Really I am but your not making sense to me.
If lynching KOC is a good thing and you agree he is scummy enough to be lynched tomorrow. Why wait for night actions if your going to lynch him no matter what?

I agree I don't see what difference waiting a day is going to make in regards to KOC, unless an investigation is used on him but there are better targets for an investigation. Also there is nothing saying we can't do both a lynch and imprint.

[xRECKONERx]

Because if we lynch him and we're wrong it fucks the numbers up... but I'm about 80% sure on him, which is more sure than I am on anything else. I have this creeping hunch in the back of my mind that farside is scum, but I keep shaking it out of my head and dismissing it as paranoia.

Vote: KOC

[Knight of Cydonia]

Dohohoh, way to go, idiots.

A townie lynch, AND no imprints to help you tomorrow. Good luck, especially Reck, Socrates and SC. You three seem sort of sensible, apart from your idiot hammer, Reck.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #49: The End of Day Five Vote Count=-

Ohio (5) - Virginia, Georgia, Colorado, Montana, Iowa

Colorado (1) - Alaska
No Lynch (1) - Ohio

Not Voting (2) - Florida, Kansas

5 to lynch.

-=Imprint Count #49: The End of Day Five Imprint Count=-

Alaska (3) - Ohio, Virginia, Alaska
Kansas (3) - Virginia, Kansas, Alaska
Virginia (3) - Virginia, Kansas, Alaska
Iowa (2) - Ohio, Iowa
Florida (0)
Georgia (0)
Montana (0)
Ohio (0)

5 to imprint.

ALASKA = SerialClergyman
COLORADO = CrashTextDummie
FLORIDA = ortolan
GEORGIA = Socrates
IOWA = xRECKONERx
KANSAS = farside22
MONTANA = Pug89
OHIO = Knight of Cydonia
VIRGINIA = elvis_knits

flavour flavour favour flavour

Ohio, Rogue Active - Sent to the Attic Day Five

No one has been imprinted.

-=It is now Night Five. farside, ortolan, as before; please send me a PM when you are ready for night to end (including your night action, if you have one, obv.)=-

[iamausername]

Again, nobody died.

-=It is now Day Six. Deadline set for Monday, 8th March. With 8 alive, it will take 5 votes to lynch or imprint.=-

[elvis_knits]

This post was funny.

Dohohoh, way to go, idiots.

A townie lynch, AND no imprints to help you tomorrow. Good luck, especially Reck, Socrates and SC. You three seem sort of sensible, apart from your idiot hammer, Reck.

Looks like it was perhaps designed to start some sort of WIFOM twilight discussion, but then iamausername came in an ended day like almost immediately, so nobody posted anything else. Which was funny.

Anyway...

I am thinking that reckoner and pug are the last scumzors.

I still think me, sc, and farside are town. (SC's little "vote CTD" episode is sort of bad, but I dunno, still thinking sc is town)

I think CTD is almost definitely town after KOC flipped scum. CTD never stopped pushing the KOC lynch, pushed it consistently during the buttonmen lynch. I don't think he would have pushed to lynch his buddy that hard and that consistently when there was a totally viable townie to lynch in buttonmen.

Which gives us:

me - town
SC - still town (I think)
farside - town
CTD(messiah) - town

So then we have two scum in the people left:
Ortolan/limerick

reckoner
pug

Socrates(plum)

I think reckoner and pug are the most likely candidates.

I felt mostly pro-town about limerick during the game, so those feelings give Ortolan a slight edge. Socrates I don't really see as so scummy... he did say he thought koc was scum and was voting him but eventually ended up voting buttonmen. It seems like he voted buttonmen out of frustration, but it's possible that he was avoiding going through with the buss on KOC, delighted he didn't have to. But the next day he went right back to KOC. I dunno. Socrates is probably my backup scum.

This was the buttonmen lynch:
elvis, farside, sc,

pug, soc, reckoner

It makes sense to me for the scum to be on the buttonmen wagon late, pushing the lynch through when they knew it was possible to do so, and saving KOC.

We all know reckoner's hammer was bad and at a time when we were just opening other avenues of discussion. But pug's vote also does not make sense since pug had voted to imprint buttonmen the day before. These two votes are the most suspect, the most opportunistic.

Pug and reckoner were also the last on the KOC wagon yesterday, only bussing when they absolutely had to, when several of us refused to compromise and give up on the KOC lynch.

Reckoner's hammer looks really weird to me since he was pushin the no-lynch idea all day, and then all the sudden hammers when I point out how all his actions seem to save KOC from lynch.

(I also suspect that pug/reckoner/KOC may have planned a little twilight discussion -- KOC would tell them how dumb they were to hammer, and then reck and pug pretend to feel really awful about hammering a townie. Then when KOC flips scum they think it makes them look like clueless townies. Except iamausername closed the thread immediately. lol.)

I want to go back and look at the imprinting votes from d1, because I remember VMD(KOC) almost getting an imprint. I think we can find some good info there.

I also think there are a lot of ties between KOC and reckoner. Reck hammered button, tried to get us to nolynch when koc was going to die. But he also had a funny relationship with vmd, iirc. I think he put her down as town right from the start with like no explanation. I am almost positive reckoner is scum.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh my god elvis if you don't stop randomly claiming that I'm scum with no real backing evidence I'm going to flip a fuck.

I wanted a no lynch and imprints to get more information then would've gladly lynched KoC the next day. After thinking about it, though, there'd be no harm in imprinting tomorrow and lynching today. I just really think we're underutilizing this imprint system.

Also, while we're doing wagon analysis: how about SC, farside, and ortolan

not being on KoC's wagon period

? I mean, too much wagon analysis leads to WIFOM. And, it's 6-2 right now, so if we were ever going to do some imprints and not really have to worry about a NK fucking us over that much, today would be the day.

[elvis_knits]

Randomly.

lol

Part 1: all these quotes are from d1:

Buttonmen vs. VMD is quite telling. Buttonmen's suggestion is a null tell: while, yes, it would probably end in a town win, it'd take a hundred days, and he had to know nobody would ACTUALLY go for that suggestion.

VMD voting Buttonmen, however, seems like a town tell. Imprint: VMD

DeathNote seems to be just rolling over and giving up right now. I don't get it, nor do I understand it.

I think it's a null-tell

at this point. Probably just tired of defending himself. I think he's an appropriate D1 lynch.

[mrow]Scum[col]IGMEOY[col]Neutral[col]Town DeathNote[col]TheButtonmen[col]farside22[col]Reckoner SerialClergyman[col]elvis_knits[col]Limerickx[col]Messiah ---[col]---[col]Starbuck[col]Vala Mal Doran ---[col]---[col]Pug89[col]Plum

And I'm imprinting VMD because she seemed the most townie to me in my re-read.

By about page four I think it was, I was thinking to myself "Well, there's at least one obvtown". That read may weaken over time, but for now, it's as solid of a town read I'm going to get on D1.

IMPRINTS, PLEASE. I think we should decide that before we lynch DN.

Also,

On VMD: why do you see her vote on buttonmen as a town tell?

I though I explained that already. Anyway, I guess I didn't... but it was during her back and forth with him. To be completely honest, I'm too drained from exams to go back and do

another

re-read, so you'll just have to accept the fact that I got a gut town read from her posts, and it has not been retracted yet. Though, her recent down-spike in activity is discouraging.

Oops, nobody bought that so:

Hmm, on second thought...

Unimprint: VMD, Buttonmen.

I backed off of you AND Buttonmen, VMD. I realized my gut reaction was logically incorrect.

So you thought I was obvtown solely based on my Button vote, I take?

That was the foundation of my argument, yes.

I formed my first opinion based on that original logic, then confirmation bias caused me to see everything you did as townie.

Not that I'm saying you're scum - I still have a town read on you

- it's just not as strongly town as it was before since the foundation was faulty.

I feel like we need to get people imprinted THEN decide on a lynch.

TLDR: for that section:
1)Reckoner reads VMD as town for her scummy vote on buttonmen
2)Reckoner says DN's giving up is a null tell
3)Reckoner wanted to make sure we imprinted d1

---

Part 2:

Look at these two posts... just look at them. One he defends starbuck and votes SC, and in the next he votes starbuck.

@SC: Why did you wait until the end of the wagon to hammer DN?

Vote: SerialClergyman

His ploy was that if he was town, then so was elvis... and if DeathNote was scum, so was Starbuck. IMO, it was a bus. He knew DeathNote would flip scum, therefore incriminating Starbuck and seemingly clearing both himself and elvis.

Vote: Starbuck

On second thought, lynching Starbuck is a better plan. Passively defending someone who flips scum is a no-no.

---

Part 3: Trying to get pug imprinted really badly. Imprinting buttonmen although he reads "neutral."

Imprint: Buttomen, Pug

All the way through the game he wants to imprint buttonmen, oh, until he hammers buttonmen's lynch. Also notice the pug connection.

...elvis is town, if you ask me.

We need to imprint people, otherwise we're just playing a nightless vanilla game.

Really wants imprints real bad.

I support myself, Pug, Messiah, and Plum.

Town reads, obviously. Messiah less so than the other three, but I think we could get info from his imprinting.

We should really imprint some peeps and go to night phase.

Let's imprint Pug and... well, shit, I guess I'll go with Imprint: Buttonmen just to get one out of the way.

Also, vote: no lynch while I'm at it.

I don't think I ever said Pug was CERTAIN to get an imprint. I suggested we imprint Pug, then reluctantly agreed that we should imprint Buttonmen. Not once did I say it was guaranteed.

Back off of too much of a connection with pug, even though he has been voting to imprint pug repeatedly for no reason.

KoC & Buttonmen both fall into the neutral range, as I keep flipping back and forth on them. Pug89 is in my "neutral-leaning-town" column... and elvis is in the WTF!? column.

Koc is neutral? Oh and then he wakes up the next day thirsting for KOC lynch.

---

Part 4: Juicy

We have reckoner pushing for a KOC lynch, and imprinting buttonmen... until he hammers buttonmen out of nowhere.

I say we imprint the same three people as yesterday and lynch KoC. Here here!

Imprint: Buttonmen & Limerickx

Vote: Knight of Cydonia.

Word dawg

KoC lynch > Buttonmen lynch

Buttonmen imprint round two is the way to go.

KoC is moderately scummy and a good lynch, we've already imprinted Buttonmen once, imprinting him again = autoinfo. If he's scum, then he'll probably kill eventually and we can pin it back on him or you or Lim. If he's town, then we're imprinting a townie again.

Have I done this yet, btw - Vote: KoC

I dislike this game. Can we please unimprint everyone and lynch KoC please?

Elvis, your plan sucks.

We lynch KoC and imprint nobody.

Who is scum with KoC? I dunno.

blah blah blah cop outs blah blah blah blah

koclynchplzthx

LYNCH KOC. NO IMPRINTS. THANK YOU.

Buttonman can be dealt with later. If there's a kill tonight, we lynch him, it's that simple

Oh, these next two posts are pure gold. REckoner saying "where did I say you were scum buttonmen?" And then two posts later hammering buttonmen.

Where did I say you were scum, Buttonman?

I just said you can be dealt with later, and if there IS a NK, then you are the autolynch.

Unvote, Vote: Buttonmen

---

Part 5:

Then yesterday we have reckoner arguing for a no-lynch. Even though he seemed to want KOC dead so badly yesterday, he's not really onboard for a KOC lynch. Until it looks like nobody is going for his plan, then he hammers out of nowhere again.

Ill Lynch KOC tomorrow if we no lynch and imprint today

Because if we lynch him and we're wrong it fucks the numbers up... but I'm about 80% sure on him, which is more sure than I am on anything else. I have this creeping hunch in the back of my mind that farside is scum, but I keep shaking it out of my head and dismissing it as paranoia.

Vote: KOC

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry that was ridiculously long.

I tried to make it reader friendly.

[xRECKONERx]

It wasn't. And, I can't defend my past reads in terms of flips. I was wrong about Koc: but obviously I was willing to lynch him... wasn't it me that was calling for a KoC lynch against a Buttonmen wagon? I mean, yes I hammered both... but you have to understand that I

wanted

to do this pattern of lynch-nolynch/imprint-lynch-nolynch/imprint and I was clinging to it.

So, what about those that weren't on the KoC wagon?

[elvis_knits]

Okay, this should be easier to understand

:

1)Your original read on VMD never made any sense. You called her town based on something people view as universally scummy.
2)You defended Starbuck and then in almost the next post voted her.
3)You advocated KOC lynch a million times while trying to imprint buttonmen. Then you hammered buttonmen.
4)You argued against lynching KOC in favor of your strategy, then threw THAT out the window and hammered KOC like you were afraid to be caught off the wagon.

Those are my main problems with your behavior. Not that your reads were wrong. It's the behavior that doesn't make sense.

---

Of people not on the KOC wagon:

Farside, I think is town. She wanted to lynch KOC but was waiting to vote because of the plan you suggested, RECk.

Ortolan, I don't know if he's read the game yet, which is a good excuse for not lynching KOC.

SC, I agree looks bad because he was voting CTD, who is basically confirmed town after KOC flipped scum.

[xRECKONERx]

1) Conceded.

2) I had a change of heart.

3) Because there was obviously not going to be another lynch, and I was tired of the day dragging on.

4) I argued against him in favor of the strategy, but after thinking further, I saw that the numbers would be the same with/without the imprints, and we could just do my plan today. I just flip-flopped the days in my plan. I'm still not lynching anyone today.

Vote: No Lynch

Imprint: xRECKONERx, elvis_knits

[elvis_knits]

Who do you think is scum?

[xRECKONERx]

Pug & [SC/ortolan/farside]. I'm not sure on the second one. Socrates is a tough read as well.

[CrashTextDummie]

Ahoy there. It's been a while since I've reread this game, and I think I wanna do that with the KoC-confirmation in mind before I decide where I'd like to go with this game. Some thoughts before I do that:

1. I'm not too keen about imprinting. The pool of players I trust enough has gotten pretty small. Aside from myself, it's basically Socrates and no one else, as I have some reservations about every other player. This might change upon my reread though. But at this point, I think we're in a strong enough position to win this game nightless-style.

2. I'm not sold on RECKONER, although Elvis presents a pretty strong case. This is in part because of VMD's behavior towards his predecessor that I already discussed in some capacity, and in part because although his play these past couple of days feels scummy to me, it's not the kind of scummy I'd expect from scum in this game, if that makes sense. I know this is sort of vague and I'm not sure if it makes sense even in my own mind, but I hope rereading will make it clearer.

3. I think I like Pug as scum better on Elvis' list. I still hate the fact that he was part of the Buttonmen lynch. Will keep a close eye on him as I reread.

4. I think I want to put more focus back on SerialClergyman. This is less because of his vote on me yesterday (although it was quite wtf-worthy) and more because of some things that caught my eye on a very selective read I did overnight (basically just my own posts). He defended VMD against my accusation in a way that didn't make sense to me then, doesn't make sense to me now, and altogether didn't feel kosher to me.

5. I don't really remember what happened to make me doubt Limerickx/ortolan, will hopefully get cleared up as I reread. He may be someone I'm still willing to imprint.

6. Elvis and farside I have mixed feelings about. I consider them the driving force behind the Buttonmen lynch (and consequently the KoC-save), and it bothers me a bit that they came out of it still completely buddy-buddy. Elvis is concentrating exclusively on the "scum latched on to the counterwagon when it became feasible" angle, which I'm not sure I'm buying. Elvis in particular I've kinda let slide after a certain point, where I took her off my list for reasons I don't really remember. Will also keep a close eye on her as I reread.

7. Socrates I've also payed little attention to, but I don't feel as uncomfortable with it. I have little memory of what Plum did, but I've just felt very good about him ever since he replaced.

Naturally, all of this will be a lot more fleshed out. I think it's time for another monster-analysis (so brace yourselves!).

One question for Elvis:
Did you reread the game overnight?