Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

I think that me and Raskol can't be scum, no?

One of Cyberbob/Socrates is scum, and it looks like one of DDD/Hoopla is scum.

I am pretty sure that we choose between Cyberbob/Socrates today. If we choose right, we should win. DDD will vig Hoopla tonight, and if Hoopla doesn't die (I'm certainly not protecting her) because DDD is scum and if he kills her, the jig is up, then we lynch DDD tomorrow.

Even if we choose wrong, if DDD is town, then he vigs the other one tonight, or if Hoopla is town, she roleblocks DDD or the one we don't lynch today and we pray.

Cyberbob, any breadcrumbs for your tracker there? Hoopla, any breadcrumbs that someone could possibly have picked out once you died? I must say, your crumbs look like you just made them up.

I'm pretty sure I know who the scum is just by these claims, but I'll wait until Socrates comes back and my breadcrumb questions is answered.

[charter]

Oh wait, there might be a roleblocker. My plan up there might need some reworking. I'll get on that.

[Raskol]

I agree that one of Cyberbob/Socrates is scum, but I'm not so sure about DDD/Hoopla. As much as I'd like to be cleared, there are a lot of very likely scenarios in which they could be town together.

I'll post more thoughts on that, but I want to hear DDD's extra info first.

[Raskol]

meh, simulpost.

Night three, Socrates. Was a toss up between mathcam and Socrates. Went with Socrates because I thought he was the obvious nightkill choice as NO ONE was considering him a suspect. I have more on this, but I'll wait until after claim.

While you're on, would you mind going ahead with this?

[Hoopla]

I've never breadcrumbed before - how exactly do my breadcrumbs look like they've just been made up?

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, any breadcrumbs for your tracker there?

Unfortunately no, I've never been one for breadcrumbing (you can check my meta on this if you like) and as much as I tell myself after every game in which I should have breadcrumbed but didn't I probably never will be.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: What was your reasoning for targetting mathcam last night?

Pretty sure that I made it clear that I though he was scum...

I believe SC and mathcam to be the most likely scum in this game.

DDD, I agree with you, but were you just reading along and decided to pop in just after Hoopla switched her vote to you? Any comment on anythign not directly affecting you?

Raskol is still town and you and mathcam still need killing.

DDD - is there anything I can do to allieviate suspicion, either now or tomorrow after a raskol flip? Anything I haven't explained or whatever?

And not to alleviate suspicion on you, but I'd like a mathcam lynch even more than yours so if it comes down to you versus him, right now I might go him.

~~~

Anyways, I want hoopla's explanations for night three since she claimed to try and kill me and yet I'm still alive. After that I think I'll have enough information to lay everything on the table.

[Socrates]

Well since I am vanilla, I know for a fact that cyberbob is lying, so he must be scum to me.

Interesting that he claims he tracked me to Hoopla, as this would mean he is implying that I am a scum roleblocker, or something.

If DDD and Charter are telling the truth, that would explain why Mathcam died and I lived BTW, though I don't think the NK choices was a clear cut as Charter says it is. I had already claimed vanilla town and I didn't exactly show myself to be a paragon of scumhunting yesterday. Better for the scum to go after someone much scarier than me.

This could be a calculated scum gambit by charter and Cyberbob to get me killed.

I need to go to class, so I will post later tonight.

I am going to go ahead and vote Cyberbob though, as I know he is scum.

vote: Cyberbob

[Socrates]

Hmmmm... Tracking me to hoopla would Oh so conviently explaim why Hoopla's vig didn't go through. This makes me think it is Cyberbob and Hoopla.

[Socrates]

WAIT! That doesn't necessarily incriminate Hoopla as since both DDD and Hoopla have claimed blocked actions, so even if one is lying there is still probably a scum roleblocker.

Scum probably DO have a roleblocker, and Cyberbob is trying to make me out to be him. Was anyone blocked night 1? That would shoot that theory down right now, as I was roleblocked myself then.

[Hoopla]

WAIT! That doesn't necessarily incriminate Hoopla as since both DDD and Hoopla have claimed blocked actions, so even if one is lying there is still probably a scum roleblocker.

Scum probably DO have a roleblocker, and Cyberbob is trying to make me out to be him. Was anyone blocked night 1? That would shoot that theory down right now, as I was roleblocked myself then.

Half the town is dead. Anyone could have been roleblocked on night 1 and taken it to the grave. Or a vanilla could have been blocked.

Anyways, I want hoopla's explanations for night three since she claimed to try and kill me and yet I'm still alive. After that I think I'll have enough information to lay everything on the table.

Are you wondering why I chose to vig you? Or why you aren't dead when I targetted you? If it's the latter, I can't answer you, but my best explaination is a scum roleblocker out there, which I'm starting to think is Cyberbob.

[charter]

meh, simulpost.

Night three, Socrates. Was a toss up between mathcam and Socrates. Went with Socrates because I thought he was the obvious nightkill choice as NO ONE was considering him a suspect. I have more on this, but I'll wait until after claim.

While you're on, would you mind going ahead with this?

I wish I wrote it down, cause I don't remember now. I think it was something to do with wondering if mathcam was targeted for a kill night two as well. When Sens died, and I realized what a coward was, I immediately thought mathcam was town (since I was relatively sure there couldn't be more than two doctors, but it seems I am mistaken). I believe I proposed some other reasons for having just one kill that night. I think I gave a vague other power roles suggestion, not wanting to suggest that there could be another doc (as that would point straight to me) and I thought I was probably the only power role left alive at that point (again, mistaken big time).

I've never breadcrumbed before - how exactly do my breadcrumbs look like they've just been made up?

Because if you were to have died, no one would ever have been able to find those. So, it seems like you could have planted them to bolster a claim later, since no one would ever notice and call you out on them. Not saying this is what you did, just a possibility.

DDD, why did you kill mathcam after you saw Serial flip town?

Cyberbob, you got some reasons for why you tracked who you did?

Hoopla, why vig DDD?

Socrates, I protected you since you were the ONLY person no one was considering scum. You seemed like the obvious NK, and you might have been if DDD is town.

Well, I think everyone should say what role they had last game, though it's probably too late now for this to be of any use. Like I said before, I was doc last time, same flavor and everything.

[Hoopla]

I'm worried about DDD's two kill attempts. Roleblocked N2 - unless there are multiple roleblockers out there (unlikely), both DDD and Cyberbob are claiming to be blocked then which is fishy.

Then claiming a mathcam kill when I'm almost certain the roleblock went on me. It rules out the possibility of DDD being blocked, and means he must have targetted mathcam. But then where did the scumkill go? It's possible it was on mathcam too (it really was only DDD finding him scummy) - or Socrates, which would mean charter was truthful. Or DDD is scum, and the mathcam kill was a scumkill.
--

I don't think Raskol is scum, and I feel okay with charter's claim so far, but I don't want to rule him out yet.

[Hoopla]

I wish I wrote it down, cause I don't remember now. I think it was something to do with wondering if mathcam was targeted for a kill night two as well. When Sens died, and I realized what a coward was, I immediately thought mathcam was town (since I was relatively sure there couldn't be more than two doctors, but it seems I am mistaken).

I protected Cyberbob Night 2, and after seeing Sens flip coward immediately came to the same conclusion as you did toward mathcam, because there was no other death.

Hoopla, why vig DDD?

He was my choice of target yesterday for lynch, despite settling for an SC in the end. That bolstered my suspicion of DDD mainly because for SC's theory to be true, it mean that you and Cyberbob had to be scum together, which I saw as exceedingly unlikely considering my save on Cyberbob N2 and a soft town read on you. I didn't think Socrates was scum, and I wasn't for a Raskol lynch - DDD was my only real choice. I'm still decently sure he is scum.

[Raskol]

Well since I am vanilla, I know for a fact that cyberbob is lying, so he must be scum to me.

How does the (supposed) fact that you're vanilla have anything to do with how

you

know that Cyberbob is lying? I mean, do you think people often think to themselves in their heads---"Wait, I'm vanilla! Cyberbob must be lying!" Or did you think: Cyberbob said I was at Hoopla's last night? Bullshit! He's lying scum!"

Also, the way you phrased this---"so he must be scum to me" is a little strange.

Overall, it sounds like you're trying to reason through what you would be thinking if you

were

a vanilla townie---not like you're reacting spontaneously

as

a vanilla townie.

IOW, you're approaching your vanilla-townie self as an outsider would. You posted something that I can see myself thinking

about

you---you know, from the outside. This is the kind of thought process people have when they're thinking about things they're unsure of, or that they know are fictional. It's probably my favorite "stylistic scumtell".

Interesting that he claims he tracked me to Hoopla, as this would mean he is implying that I am a scum roleblocker, or something.

I don't remember cyberbob saying anything like that, or even hinting at it. It may be implied by his posts, but he gave no sign that he recognized that.

The reason this is relevant is that of the two of you, you were the first to bring up the idea of a mafia roleblocker. You did it defensively, too. Not the greatest thing for you imo, though I don't find it as telling as the above quote.

[Raskol]

Okay, just throwing this out there:

I believe Hoopla's claim 100%---my town read on her is backed up by her breadcrumbs. Setting up a claim of a combination doc/cop isn't exactly a great move as scum, so the fact that she breadcrumbed both an investigation and a doc save, both on different days, is a towntell---unless she had simply breadcrumbed lots and lots of different roles so she'd be able to fakeclaim anything she needed to. But there are two reasons I find that unlikely: first, why would she claim JOAT when she could just have claimed a single-ability role, if she has set up breadcrumbs for many different abilities? It doesn't give us any incentive not to lynch her, since she's already used up all her good abilities. More than that, it doesn't incriminate anyone. It implies that there's a roleblocker if it's true (or else a mafia doctor), but says nothing about who that is. So her claim neither makes her less lynchable nor puts anyone else in the noose. Neither of those are characteristic of scum claims. Second, I just looked at her posts again in iso looking for breadcrumbs that follow vaguely the same sort of format as the ones she listed and couldn't find anything. Maybe there were some and I missed them, but overall I'm very confident she's telling the truth.

Okay, so let's assume there's either a roleblocker or a mafia doc (or both), because Hoopla's claim is true and for it to be true there has to be at leastone of those. This gives us some useful information. If there's a mafia doc, it means Danny is scum. So if we hit the scum out of Cyberbob and Socrates, and they flip mafia doc, we know who they protected and we've got our team.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, why did you kill mathcam after you saw Serial flip town?

My read wasn't dependent on them being teammates so SC's flip didn't alleviate my suspicions of mathcam at all, they were simply the most scummy to me, clearly I read that wrong.

~~~

Anyways, time to put this one away and apolgies to SC for not believing him, the scum team is Cyberbob and Hoopla because I was roleblocked BOTH night two and night three. I know what you're thinking, how do you know that you were blocked N3 when mathcam died and you targeted him with a vig kill? Because I recieved a PM from the mod stating that much and when I asked about le chat's night actions his night two kill had a note next to it that it was also blocked. The fact that Cyberbob and Hoopla both claimed to be roleblocked on seperate nights, but neither recieved confirmation tells me that neither of them was actually roleblocked. I'm 100% sure Hoopla is scum because of this and 99% sure Cyberbob is scum.

Vote: Cyberbob

[Raskol]

Reasons why I'm leaning towards believing Cyberbob atm:

---Cyberbob's slipup about the Vaya claim was a nulltell as far as I'm concerned. It seems like the kind of mistake that could only have been made in carelessness. Neither scum nor town would want to forget that kind of thing: no matter what Cyberbob's win condition is, it's more likely to be hurt by that kind of slipup than helped---since no matter what his goals are, he wants to get Socrates lynched today if he gets/fakes that result. This kind of thing is especially WIFOM-proof as no one would ever try to fake that kind of mistake.

---Given Cyberbob's slipup, Socrates' claim that Cyberbob is trying maliciously to paint him as the roleblocker makes no sense at all. If Cyberbob were trying to frame Socrates, he would have come out of the gate swinging. He didn't, though---he had to be

reminded

that his results incriminated Socrates. Even after that, he didn't even mention the word roleblocker. So Socrates' insistence that Cyberbob is trying to pin not just an alignment on him but a particular role makes me think more that Socrates has a "guilty conscience"---ie, that he

knows

he's a mafia roleblocker, and so he interprets the attack in himself in that light.

[Raskol]

Hmm---just saw that from Danny. Gonna take some time to think.

[Raskol]

In the meantime, please unvote temporarily, for my peace of mind's sake if for nothing else.

[Raskol]

K, thought it through.

Vote: no lynch

This absolutely needs to happen. I will explain tomorrow.

[Hoopla]

DDD, why did you kill mathcam after you saw Serial flip town?

My read wasn't dependent on them being teammates so SC's flip didn't alleviate my suspicions of mathcam at all, they were simply the most scummy to me, clearly I read that wrong.

~~~

Anyways, time to put this one away and apolgies to SC for not believing him, the scum team is Cyberbob and Hoopla because I was roleblocked BOTH night two and night three. I know what you're thinking, how do you know that you were blocked N3 when mathcam died and you targeted him with a vig kill? Because I recieved a PM from the mod stating that much and when I asked about le chat's night actions his night two kill had a note next to it that it was also blocked. The fact that Cyberbob and Hoopla both claimed to be roleblocked on seperate nights, but neither recieved confirmation tells me that neither of them was actually roleblocked. I'm 100% sure Hoopla is scum because of this and 99% sure Cyberbob is scum.

Vote: Cyberbob

Wow, I'm kind of surprised how brazen this is. You've essentially outed yourself as scum to me, and Cyberbob possibly (unless this is a scum gambit with a Cyberbob/DDD team) - although it makes me think the likeliest scenario is a DDD/Socrates scumteam, with DDD putting it all on the line for my lynch or Cyberbob's.

This narrows it down a lot for the town. I'm eager to see what everyone else makes of this.

[Raskol]

Less talking, more voting for no lynch.

Seriously. More information today will not help town---quite the opposite.

[Raskol]

srsly, everyone doit nao

[Hoopla]

K, thought it through.

Vote: no lynch

This absolutely needs to happen. I will explain tomorrow.

How is no-lynch going to improve our position?