Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

blackcatcontract (2): Kmd4390, jammer
SensFan (2): GIEFF, Benmage
Battle Mage (1): alexhans
Kmd4390 (1): Battle Mage

Not Voting: SensFan, Debonair Danny DiPietro, blackcatcontract, SpyreX, Zachrulez

6 to lynch

blackcatcontract is still in, yes. I confirmed with Kairyuu via AIM (Kairyuu knows him personally).

[alexhans]

My reads

GIEFF: Town
jammer: Town
Benmage: Almost town

Zach: neutral, leaning town
SpyreX: neutral, leaning town

DDD: neutral. leaning Scum
bcc: neutral, leaning scum
Sensfan: neutral, leaning scum
KMD: neutral, Leaning Scum.

BM: scum

I know there can't be that much scum... But I'm not really sure who is really scum. BCC, I have no reads but Kai's exit + gut makes him look scum. DDD's lack of scumhunting is scummy. KMD's attitude towards Camn is scummy. KMD's play so far is scummy. SensFan is anti-town to the max. He may be hiding behind his meta.

We need some BCC, DDD and SensFan input ASAP

We have 3 scum in that 5 person pool. We have at least 2 more lynches. So there's no way we can fail to lynch scum. But we should try to lynch right today. I'm very confident BM is the right lynch. I'm gonna think a bit about pairings but I'm not sure how much can I trust that.
-------------------------------

GIEFF:

What do you think about your Camn+Alex theory now?

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

Good. That will be healthy for the game.

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

And probably because your massive rain of posts pulled this game into a bloody confusion that helps scum.
-------------------------------

Battle Mage (this is all for you)

:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I didn't vote you for that waggon. I vote you because you're scum and you supported a quicklynch but tried to stay off it...

The problem with this game is, more than 50% of the players are good policy lynches at this point,

Bullshit. Stop talking like SensFan. There's no GOOD policy lynches. We have to lynch scum not people that we dislike for some reason.

Camn getting killed is an absolute God-send, because she was both a policy-lynch, and a scummy player, who we now won't waste a mislynch on.

IIRC, you said she was town...
regarding GIEFF's performance... there's 2 choices... he is scum... or he is town and is hurting the town with his enormous quantities of posts where he just tunnel visions on someone and keeps trying to find reasons to call them scum. I think the latter.

I was one of the prime lynch pushers, and i wasnt even voting for Cephrir by the end of the Day.

Wich is inconsistent... Why did you derail the bcc waggon but then didn't take responsability for the Cephir one?

The Camn NK clearly implicates Gieff.

This is bs. You're night speculating when you voted Mastin for it.

1508: shows why you're scum. Now you say that the Cephir vote had evidence that indicated he was scum? And you call Camn scummy NOW? And VP Baltar obv town? This is all designed to make you look good.

Do you realize that scum can buss each other? If you do... then you'll see that anti-pairing is not so effective.

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?

Huh? Are you looking to see if you have support for a mislynch?

Why do you keep asking who does the kill implicate when we all know that scum has 100 % control over it? Didn't SensFan and DDD said that? Didn't you agree? Why do you use it when it's convinient to you? (That was rethorical, the answer is because you're scum)

Just me? And i'm town. So, from my PoV, it's unlikely that the Camn-kill was to implicate you, given nobody has bothered to follow it up. But, i can understand a level of concern from yours.

Note also, that despite your anxious reaction to my comments on you, you arent my 1st of 2nd lynch candidate atm. Why would i have made a fuss of killing Camn last night, if i didnt really intend to pursue you straight afterwards - which would obviously be optimal.

It's amazing how you try to look town and buddy GIEFF in every post but still want others to pick on what you say and make him look scummy.
--------------------------------

[GIEFF]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

[Battle Mage]

Lmao. I call BS. I don't think any scumbag seriously expected they'd be able to push a mislynch on you.

I appreciate your confidence that I am town.

I think KMD is scummy.

Dont understand the first bit. Simply spin?

Was hoping you'd agree on KMD. Even if he isn't your top suspect, i figured you might be amenable to a wagon to test him.
Carefully monitored, i'll add.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it.

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@MOD Did BCC pick up his prod?

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?
Also, what kind of tell do you think the Camn-NK would be towards you?

Alex…let me ponder him. However even if he is scum, there are still two other scum and I’ll feel more comfortable searching out them seeing as I find some individuals very scummy.

That's pretty much my stance tbh. Annoying as he is, i still look at him and think "newbie" moreso than "scum". The problem is, he isn't the kind of issue that will resolve itself. Unlike Gieff, there's little chance that the scum would NK Alex-town, so at some point we need to look at him. If you have some more detailed thoughts, they'd be useful.

Where did you (and Alex) conclude 3 scum from? Looking at the numbers, i'd have leaned more towards 4. *Shrug* maybe i'm wrong.

Camn NK, re-affrims me as town personally. I openly apologized to her (after first asking the mod to pm her, but was told he couldn’t allow the outside communication.) I came off abrasive and insulting to her, and plan to pm her once this game is over. I was trying to get her out of her defensive shell by D2. Why NK someone who attached their vote to your own.

In the interest of balance, i have to point out this is scummy, for the same reasons as Gieff's comment. PMing her in private is ok, but making a show of apologising and acting surprised, seems more likely to be a scum-endeavour than a town one.

Your last point is a valid one, and one i was expecting you to use.

I don't see why people would apologise to Camn now she is dead. If you were rude, you were rude, REGARDLESS of her affiliation. Her coming up town doesnt make it any more wrong.

Lol, you know my views on the length of days. You also know i was Pro-Cephrir lynch. My only issue is the speed with which it happened-i'd rather have seen more discussion beforehand.

I was pro the ceph lynch as well. But I wanted to wait for the prods to go through before hammering. That hammer was disgusting. Yes, gieff I too plan to avoid games with those two individuals. It is very frustrating and in truth I have difficulty comprehending why people sign up for a

game

and then don’t play it…only ruining others fun. If forced to play with them I will adamantly try and policy-lynch them.

Policy lynching them is a poor idea. Instead, make good use of your read on them. They should be far easier to meta after this game. Then, when they are replaced, you should know whether that player is town or scum, and can act accordingly. Notifying mods of their past activity is probably a better idea.

I am not at all surprised to be alive, but I am surprised camn is dead. I think the kill implicates whoever tries to use it to their benefit.

I am surprised I am alive.

So was i tbh. But not really logically-there wasnt much cause for scum to kill me. I'm just paranoid.

BM

[GIEFF]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it. :P

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence. :P

BM

It is not stupid at all. You used your absence from the Cephrir-wagon to defend yourself:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

[alexhans]

^^ Wich is exactly what everyone blamed Mastin for... Auto-clearing himself.

[alexhans]

Where did you (and Alex) conclude 3 scum from? Looking at the numbers, i'd have leaned more towards 4. *Shrug* maybe i'm wrong.

-----------------------
Some post to show you that BM doesn't even know what he is saying and is trying to BS everyone everytime.

113

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

------------------------------------
142

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution, but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me. What annoys me is, i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

I never concluded there was 3 scum... I just went along with everyone because everyone kept telling me that 4 was improbable. Wether it's 4 or 3, There's still 3 scum in that pool.

[Battle Mage]

My reads

GIEFF: Town
jammer: Town

Benmage: Almost town

Zach: neutral, leaning town
SpyreX: neutral, leaning town

DDD: neutral. leaning Scum

bcc: neutral, leaning scum

Sensfan: neutral, leaning scum

KMD: neutral, Leaning Scum.

BM: scum

I know there can't be that much scum... But I'm not really sure who is really scum. BCC, I have no reads but Kai's exit + gut makes him look scum. DDD's lack of scumhunting is scummy. KMD's attitude towards Camn is scummy. KMD's play so far is scummy. SensFan is anti-town to the max. He may be hiding behind his meta.

(Colouring mine)

Why is Kai's exit a scumtell? Gut won't fly.

I pretty much agree on DDD, but again, lack of posting isnt really enough to lynch at this point. I agree on Sensfan hiding behind his meta. Not sure what to make of him atm.

Wanna elaborate on your KMD suspicion?

We need some BCC, DDD and SensFan input ASAP

Why do you want more input from 3 people who you think are more likely than not to be scum?

We have 3 scum in that 5 person pool.

Why 3? And whats with the confidence? I've seen cops with more caution than you! I doubt you consider your scumhunting to be THAT impeccable.

We have at least 2 more lynches. So there's no way we can fail to lynch scum. But we should try to lynch right today. I'm very confident BM is the right lynch. I'm gonna think a bit about pairings but I'm not sure how much can I trust that.

Thinking about pairings is a good idea. But i'm a terrible lynch. You should just NK me and be done with it. In fact, if you're town, i bet good money that if you stopped attacking me for 1 day, i'd be killed that night. So, thanks. xD

-------------------------------

GIEFF:

What do you think about your Camn+Alex theory now?

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

Good. That will be healthy for the game.

You HAVE to be kidding me. You think we need LESS participation!? 0.o

Also, ^ Motive for Alex-scum to kill Camn.

[quote-"Alex"]

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

And probably because your massive rain of posts pulled this game into a bloody confusion that helps scum.[/quote]

This is a terrible stance. I know you won't take anything i say seriously at this point, but for future reference, you should heed well- High levels of posting like we have seen in this game is PROTOWN. Simple spam is NOT. But posting here is actually productive-for those of us who are playing, anyway.

Battle Mage (this is all for you)

:

Woop Woop! xD

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I didn't vote you for that waggon. I vote you because you're scum and you supported a quicklynch but tried to stay off it...

My comment to Gieff needs amending to you. Because clearly i can't expect the same level of rationality from you as town. Suffice to say, my play regarding the Ceph wagon cannot be attributed a scum motive. I'm pretty sure your vote on me is just because, for the last 40 pages, you cant be bothered to actually analyse this game. There isnt anything i can say to change your mind, so tell me-what's the point us even talking?

You need to open your eyes, comrade.

The problem with this game is, more than 50% of the players are good policy lynches at this point,

Bullshit. Stop talking like SensFan. There's no GOOD policy lynches. We have to lynch scum not people that we dislike for some reason.

A policy lynch in this case is not somebody i dislike. It's somebody that hasnt committed conventional scumtells, but we can't really deal with, and we certainly dont want to give a victory to. Lurkers like Ceph and BCC fitted that category for most people. Sensfan fits it, because he's hiding behind a scummy meta, and we cant get a read on him. You fit it, because you've been

worse

than useless, and aren't participating in anything remotely like a protown manner. DDD also fits it, for active lurking, and displaying an open willingness to participate the bare minimum.

Sometimes SensFan talks a lot of sense, i guess.

Camn getting killed is an absolute God-send, because she was both a policy-lynch, and a scummy player, who we now won't waste a mislynch on.

IIRC, you said she was town...

Really? I recall my public stance being pretty torn. In any case, i looked at the game in a different light overnight-hence my changing opinion on Zach.

regarding GIEFF's performance... there's 2 choices... he is scum... or he is town and is hurting the town with his enormous quantities of posts where he just tunnel visions on someone and keeps trying to find reasons to call them scum. I think the latter.

I don't even want to dignify the last bit with a response. I suspect Gieff will probably punish you accordingly. How can YOU call somebody on tunnel-visioning? lmfao

And, frankly, your list above, had Gieff in the "certain town" category. So why are you sounding less confident now?

I was one of the prime lynch pushers

, and i wasnt even voting for Cephrir by the end of the Day.

Wich is inconsistent... Why did you derail the bcc waggon but then didn't take responsability for the Cephir one?

Did you not read what you quoted? I'll highlight it for you.

That's me taking responsibility. What's your prob?

The Camn NK clearly implicates Gieff.

This is bs. You're night speculating when you voted Mastin for it.

Night speculating on Night 0 is foolish. Night speculating on a player whose presence was dominated by another, is perfectly reasonable. Whether Gieff committed the kill or not, is to be determined. But, the obvious conclusion we are expected to draw is that he did, or scum want us to think he did. I was leaning towards the former, but hearing from you and Benmage has swayed me back to the latter.

1508: shows why you're scum. Now you say that the Cephir vote had evidence that indicated he was scum?

Would be helpful if you quoted 1508. Anyway, i said at the time my Cephrir vote was a well-reasoned one. If you were following yesterday, you would know this. Why do you find it surprising now?

And you call Camn scummy NOW?

Yep. But, again, i'm pretty sure i voiced my doubts on her yesterday as well. I'm not the master at this game, and i'm not afraid to admit when i'm wrong. I was wrong to doubt Camn. But not as wrong as the Mafia were for NKing her. xD

And VP Baltar obv town? This is all designed to make you look good.

You do realise that Camn was town? And so was Cephrir? How does me thinking they could both be scum, correspond with me being CORRECT about VP Baltar?

I seriously doubt you even know what you are arguing anymore. You're just twisting anything you can to try and make a case, however illogical. But you give me lol's, i guess. It's just frustrating when i think you might be town, and if so, i honestly dont know what we can do with you...

Do you realize that scum can buss each other? If you do... then you'll see that anti-pairing is not so effective.

Which Anti-Pairing?

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?

Huh? Are you looking to see if you have support for a mislynch?

Yeh, thats right. You got me.

I think, if you're town, you getting lynched is the second best thing you can do for your chances of winning.

Why do you keep asking who does the kill implicate when we all know that scum has 100 % control over it? Didn't SensFan and DDD said that? Didn't you agree? Why do you use it when it's convinient to you? (That was rethorical, the answer is because you're scum)

Lmao. I don't really see what you're getting at here. Firstly, you were pro-kill speculation. Secondly, how does scum having control over the kill mean we cant speculate? :S

Just me? And i'm town. So, from my PoV, it's unlikely that the Camn-kill was to implicate you, given nobody has bothered to follow it up. But, i can understand a level of concern from yours.

Note also, that despite your anxious reaction to my comments on you, you arent my 1st of 2nd lynch candidate atm. Why would i have made a fuss of killing Camn last night, if i didnt really intend to pursue you straight afterwards - which would obviously be optimal.

It's amazing how you try to look town and buddy GIEFF in every post but still want others to pick on what you say and make him look scummy.
--------------------------------

Why do you draw a parallel between "looking town" and "buddying Gieff"?

Seems like you might be referring to your own play here. Iirc, this post started with you claiming that Gieff was definitely town.

I'm not interested in a Gieff-lynch at this point. Nor do i really want an Alex-lynch. I actually just want you to stop posting.

Ftr, i think you might confuse me "trying to look town" with me "actually being town". Just a thought. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it.

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence.

BM

It is not stupid at all. You used your absence from the Cephrir-wagon to defend yourself:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I used it to defend myself from your apparent accusation that i was a quicklyncher. I can tolerate you calling me scum, but when you call me anti-town, that's pushing it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

^^ Wich is exactly what everyone blamed Mastin for... Auto-clearing himself.

Damn, you really loved Mastin, huh? Shame you didnt do more to keep him alive, really.
What was this post linking to?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yes alex, that is what I meant by BM "pulling a Cephrir." Ensuring a lynch goes through, but staying off the wagon to try to avoid suspicion.

That's ridiculous. It can only really apply to someone who never votes for the person-not someone who starts and pushes it.

It's so stupid, i don't believe for a second that you yourself give it ANY credence.

BM

It is not stupid at all. You used your absence from the Cephrir-wagon to defend yourself:

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

I used it to defend myself from your apparent accusation that i was a quicklyncher. I can tolerate you calling me scum, but when you call me anti-town, that's pushing it.

BM

Note the "you" in this is referring to Alex's original point, rather than Gieff, who has apparently felt the need to give him cuddles.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Where did you (and Alex) conclude 3 scum from? Looking at the numbers, i'd have leaned more towards 4. *Shrug* maybe i'm wrong.

-----------------------
Some post to show you that BM doesn't even know what he is saying and is trying to BS everyone everytime.

113

I don't feel like researching too much right now about numbers... I still stick to my 4 scum theory (And it's practically a wcs that we could use as guideline if we mislynch 3 times in a row... we'll assume lylo).

It's really wierd how you are desperate to push the 4 scum theory, but it is in the interests of the town anyway to promote cautiousness.

------------------------------------

That was in reference to your shouting at everyone about the number of scum, on Day 1. If you believed there were 4 scum, why are you now assuming 3? Personally, i still think 4 is more likely. My attacks on you early in the game were not because what you were saying was wrong, but because you seemed so keen to argue about it, when it was utterly irrelevant.

142

I'm usually told that setup-speculation is bad, but here we are, wondering how many scum there is and no one has said anything there was anything wrong about it.

Because it's totally and utterly, IRRELEVANT. Commenting on the number of scum we might have on Day 1, is the most pointless exercise i can imagine. Maybe look at it lately, and by all means, err on the side of caution, but your attempts to bully everyone into believing there are 4 scum, when there is no way in hell you could know that as town, have not gone unnoticed by me. What annoys me is, i cant even see a logical reason to make that argument as scum, unless you are just deliberately out to mislead at every turn, or you wanna get your chips in quick, so you can later cry "I told ya so!"

I never concluded there was 3 scum... I just went along with everyone because everyone kept telling me that 4 was improbable. Wether it's 4 or 3, There's still 3 scum in that pool.

Where's the 4th scum then, smart guy?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Responses to 1517 would be appreciated. Gieff especially, as he has apparently avoided it.

BM

[GIEFF]

Stop with the large quotes, please. I agree activity is pro-town, but you and alex quote-war-walling goes beyond that, and gives those who are NOT active a better excuse for their anti-town behavior.

[Battle Mage]

Stop with the large quotes, please. I agree activity is pro-town, but you and alex quote-war-walling goes beyond that, and gives those who are NOT active a better excuse for their anti-town behavior.

Haha, if at some point either you or Alex come to be potential lynches, these quotes will come in handy. I don't see why i should neglect to respond to attacks against me-no matter how illogical they may be.

Why did you feel the need to argue, alongside Alex, that i was trying to pretend i wasnt attacking Cephrir, when i think i already pointed out how ill-considered such a comment was?

BM

[GIEFF]

Because you used your absence from a Cephrir-lynch as a defense.

[Battle Mage]

Because you used your absence from a Cephrir-lynch as a defense.

i'm not saying it again. If you werent listening the first 2 times, you wont now.

BM

[alexhans]

until 1537:

short answers to BM's bullshit are...

* You twist things and forget the game's events
* I suggest you read back.
-------------------------

Why do you want more input from 3 people who you think are more likely than not to be scum?

WTF? When did I say they were not likely to be scum? As far as I know... leaning scum means that they are likely to be scum.
STOP... TWISTING... MY... POSTS!!!

mmm... fluff... fluff... idiotic fluff that tries to say I'm scum without commiting yourself.

I've been worse than useless? You're being totally wrong.

I didn't tunnel vision on you. I gave you a fair chance to prove me wrong. But you proved me you were scum.

You DISTANCED from Cephir's mislynch. Why push so hard and not vote him? When I thanked everyone and voted you, you defended yourself saying you hadn't been on Cephir's waggon.

There's probably no point on you talking. Because you keep fencesitting and trying to buddy people into not suspecting you but you still try to get them lynched.

fluff... you keep trying to misinterpret what I say... You ad hom me trying to discredit me... You go on a tangent. You keep trying to make me look scum but not actively push my lynch because when I flip town it will probably bite you in the ass.

Lmao. I don't really see what you're getting at here. Firstly, you were pro-kill speculation. Secondly, how does scum having control over the kill mean we cant speculate? :S

You're wrong. Read back.

I'm not interested in a Gieff-lynch at this point. Nor do i really want an Alex-lynch. I actually just want you to stop posting. Razz

Doesn't look like it. You continue asking BS questions. Misreping what I say.

@Everyone:

Read Battle Mage in ISO so you can understand why you need to vote him. Then do it, please. He has been the Prince of Bullshit all game long. To that we can add the Mayor Fencesitter title.

He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.
He continues to suggest that


@Benmage: I know what BM really stands for: Bullshit Master.

[Battle Mage]

lol. i cant even be bothered to reply. If someone else wants to do it for me, that'd be very nice.

BM

[alexhans]

Where's the 4th scum then, smart guy?

sigh... If there IS a 4th... it's there too... duh...

GIEFF: I know we should stop. He is doing this on purpose. I have to give some kind of answer. He will try to portray non-responses to idiotic questions as scummy. I've gotten to know him.

Not gonna respond more idiotic questions from BM for a while. I'll answer them In a notepad and store them. If people feel they should be posted then I'll do so.

In the meantime. Vote BM for lynchee 2009.

[Battle Mage]

joy. This game really wears on me when Benmage isn't here.

[alexhans]

shhh... you're voting KMD... You've had your say. Now shhh... Let others speak. Go play some other game...

[Battle Mage]

lmao. Lesson i've learnt-do the exact opposite of what Alex says. Because usually he gets his meaning wrong anyway. xD

BM