Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[GIEFF]

But who cares which lurker we lynch, right? Best to just trust Battle Mage's magical meta-read he can't tell any of us about.

[GIEFF]

Well, I was born in a fail town
And I live in a fail town
Prob'ly die in a fail town
Oh, those small communities

[jammer]

it is REALLY damn lame that TWO townies lurked so horribly that they both got policy-lynched. I'm pissed as shit about it, and will never play a game with these two idiots again. It shows a lack of respect, and 60 fucking pages might as well be wasted because they couldn't be bothered post ONCE in a week. Ridiculous. Screw you both.

Mastin was a policy-lynch to you?

[Kmd4390]

I get the sense that camn is just a small town girl, livin' in a lonely world, and would be prone to taking a midnight train going anywhere. Do you really think this fits her town meta?

Not sure what you mean by that. Maybe that she was willing to go with whatever wagon? If so, yeah, she does move around as town.

Yes, I don't see how a lurker-lynch could possibly go wrong, guys. It's been an excellent strategy so far.

Mastin ALWAYS lurks after a while. Ceph ALWAYS lurks. Black seems to be strategically lurking. Mastin and Ceph weren't that scummy. Black is. Mastin and Ceph were town. Black probably isn't.

[Battle Mage]

Great Job everyone... Nice quicklynch.

specially Camn and SensFan...

FoS: SensFan

Don't hide behind your scummy meta of hammering without reason.

Vote Battle Mage

It's him, bcc or maybe SensFan today.

Bye.

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-
Aside from that minor error, i totally agree with you. The Sens hammer was premature, and some of his comments at the end of day seemed really wierd. On the one hand, you could say he seemed pretty darn certain that he wasn't getting NKed. But then, perhaps this was a WIFOM ploy to get scum not to NK him. If so, it seems to have worked.

The problem with this game is, more than 50% of the players are good policy lynches at this point, and we cant deal with them all. We need to be lynching scummy players, but we dont want lurkers to get a free-ride either.

Camn getting killed is an absolute God-send, because she was both a policy-lynch, and a scummy player, who we now won't waste a mislynch on.

I'll be honest-i did pull a Benmage last night. Although not to the same extent. lol
Just a bit of analysis of the end of the day, which i missed, due to not being on this site 24 hours a day. -.-'

I was speaking to the Mod last night, and kinda realised that my position on BCC is pretty unclear. Cephrir was a necessary lynch, and sadly, i still can't clarify my thoughts on BCC. But, on more objective examination, they arent CONCLUSIVE enough for me to say im certain BCC is town. If i implemented a Vollkan-like system, BCC would be at about 40% scum.

So, whilst i am not CERTAIN BCC is town, you can understand why i do not think he is a great lynch when there are other people who i feel are more likely to be scum than town. I will oppose a BCC lynch today.

I'm perplexed by Gieff's continued existence in this game. If he's town, it should probably tell him something about his performance thus far...
That said, i agree with him regarding Camn's meta. She was not playing anything like the way i've seen her play as town before.

Regarding KMD's vote analysis, i dont think it's acceptable to conclude there was definitely scum on the Cephrir wagon. Cephrir was pretty much a certain lynch-and scum could quite easily have distanced from it. I was one of the prime lynch pushers, and i wasnt even voting for Cephrir by the end of the Day.

The Camn NK clearly implicates Gieff.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Kmd

He was completely absent for yesterday, bar 2 posts, where he criticised the activity, and attacked Gieff because he had on Day 1. Today he hasnt pursued Gieff again, and seems to want to play the game. I could see scum getting bolder with less townies to contend with, and i'm thinking it might be good to look at people who have been out of the spotlight till now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Reading DDD, didnt find much really. Nothing really off with his posting, except it has been infrequent, and his vote history isnt great. But i dont really get a scummy vibe. Also, now we're at the stage where a significant proportion of the players are scum, looking for anti-pairings could be useful. Due to the following:

Great, nine pages in twenty hours, that’ll really encourage me to participate more.

Despite the objections I’ve seen townies (possibly Benmage in other games, Ben links if so) prepare in such a fashion overnight. I think his choice of targets to ISO is strange and was more than a little influenced by the amount people posted. That was about the best use of a self-vote I’ve ever seen, though I doubt the wagon would’ve gained any more steam as different people came online.

I think Alex’s reaction to my behavior is hilarious and he can’t spell the word collaborate properly.

I’d usually object to lurker pressure/lynching, since the prod mechanism is supposed to make sure they post occasionally, but since that hasn’t worked I’d be fine with it in this case.

Vote: Cephrir

DDD is not scum with Benmage.

I think i saw another anti-pairing with Benmage earlier. Will look now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

damnit, that was with Camn. Not entirely helpful.

a Zach-Gieff pairing is very feasible, due to their reactions to me pairing them together yesterday.

But i'm thinking Zach is probably town. His starting post, inviting attention on himself, is protown, and stuff i picked up overnight. In fact, i'll post that now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

End of Day analysis.

1452 by Zach is very protown. He argued earlier that he preferred a BCC lynch to a Cephrir one, which could have been distancing from a mislynch, but he joins the Cephrir wagon at -3, i think,by which time it will almost certainly go to a lynch without his help. His attitude towards the lurkers is very bloodthirsty, and i dont see why he would choose to come across this way, if he genuinely wanted mislynches. His paranoia towards me is probably understandable, but if he uses it to push a lynch on me tomorrow, rather than BCC, he may need to be looked at again, because it isn't consistent with his own criticism of my play - namely that i didnt intend to run up BCC after Cephrir. For now, i'm going to say town, although his lying and apprehension havent escaped me.

SpyreX's 1451 is also highly protown. He even makes a big deal of a contingency in which Cephrir is scum. Absolutely no motivation to do this as scum, especially as it is likely to alienate Gieff-one of the...louder, players in the game.
Was a Cephrir hater from Day 1.

Gieff's play yesterday was far from stellar, and tbh, i'll be surprised if he isnt NKed tonight. That would suggest that either, he is WAY off with his accusations, or is scum. His stance on Cephrir was ridiculous in the face of the evidence, but this conflicts with my earlier town read of him. Reread would probably be helpful here. I wouldnt be at all surprised to see a Camn-Gieff scumpair, given their interactions, and the fact they are both still alive. Camn herself has been way off for quite a while now. Her stance on Gieff is so inconsistent, but im not sure if this is scummy. 1472 stands against my theory of a Camn-Gieff pairing. Like Gieff, i dont understand why Camn brought up the VP kill now. But unless Camn is playing the newbie card to try and survive longer, i think it can only be a towntell. I'm very perplexed as to why Benmage then says he doesnt understand the VP Baltar kill. VP was pretty obvtown by the end of that day, and he was annoying as hell. If i was scum, he'd have definitely been a potential target for me.

1437 shows Gieff shouldnt have had a massive aversion to a Cephrir lynch. Ah, i think im hitting my head against a brick wall. Gieff's mentality is pretty darn protown.

Jammer's play yesterday, by contrast, was good. He confirmed my meta on Cephrir, and he has pointed out obvious reasons for me being town. Of course, this could well be buddying, but if he's town, he's pulled his finger out. He's been protecting me all game, and i'm not entirely sure if thats normal. lol
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd still be happy to lynch Jammer at this point, if KMD doesnt go anywhere. I'm still not entirely sure what to do about Alex.

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?
Also, what kind of tell do you think the Camn-NK would be towards you?

BM

[Zachrulez]

Yes, I don't see how a lurker-lynch could possibly go wrong, guys. It's been an excellent strategy so far.

Mastin ALWAYS lurks after a while. Ceph ALWAYS lurks. Black seems to be strategically lurking. Mastin and Ceph weren't that scummy. Black is. Mastin and Ceph were town. Black probably isn't.

What exactly makes BCC's lurking strategic compared to how Cephrir's lack of posting yesterday seemed to be the same?

[GIEFF]

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

Ridiculous, Battle Mage. YOU are the main reason we lynched Cephrir over bcc. Not being on the wagon just makes you look scummier.

I'm perplexed by Gieff's continued existence in this game. If he's town, it should probably tell him something about his performance thus far...

Gieff's play yesterday was far from stellar, and tbh, i'll be surprised if he isnt NKed tonight.

I don't get it. If my play has been poor, why would I get NK'd? Looks like you're trying to use a NK IN ADVANCE to make me look scummy.

1437 shows Gieff shouldnt have had a massive aversion to a Cephrir lynch. Ah, i think im hitting my head against a brick wall. Gieff's mentality is pretty darn protown.

I did NOT have a massive aversion to a Cephrir-lynch. What I had a massive aversion to was people just blindly charging ahead and lynching one of two lurkers without thinking about it, just because YOU claimed to have some rock-solid meta read on bcc that you couldn't tell us about.

Why weren't you on the Cephrir wagon, Battle Mage? You worked for pages and pages and pages to get him lynched, but did NOT end up on the wagon, and are already trying to use that fact to make yourself look townie.


You say the camn kill likely implicated me, and that if I am NOT killed tomorrow, that also implicates me. But you squirm your way out of a commitment by then claming that I play pro-town. Trying to pull a Cephrir? Throw some NK-WIFOM crap my way, wait for people to come charging after you to "make you happy" and then claim you had nothing to do with my mislynch tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

Humorous that you attack me for the Quicklynch, when i...wasnt even on the wagon. -.-

Ridiculous, Battle Mage. YOU are the main reason we lynched Cephrir over bcc. Not being on the wagon just makes you look scummier.

Lol, you know my views on the length of days. You also know i was Pro-Cephrir lynch. My only issue is the speed with which it happened-i'd rather have seen more discussion beforehand.

Please feel free to tell me how you feel the speed of the lynch was my fault, when you were very keen to push a BCC lynch.

I'm perplexed by Gieff's continued existence in this game. If he's town, it should probably tell him something about his performance thus far...

Gieff's play yesterday was far from stellar, and tbh, i'll be surprised if he isnt NKed tonight.

I don't get it. If my play has been poor, why would I get NK'd? Looks like you're trying to use a NK IN ADVANCE to make me look scummy.

The second quote is unclear. If i worded it like that, i apologise. Your play yesterday was poor, but you did manage to stay well clear of the Cephrir lynch. True, you arent likely to help run up scum today either. But you are a loud player, that most of us had concluded as protown. Baltar was killed, and he wasn't as protown as you. It seems really odd that Camn was killed too-when if you were town, you'd have continued to exert most of your energy on him. The fact nobody has pointed this out makes it more valid imo. Your acknowledged this yourself.

So yes, i consider you a suspect now. But, i think we can afford to deal with you later. Jammer and KMD are my top priorities today.

What do you mean by the phrase "NK IN ADVANCE"?

BM

[GIEFF]

You are not responsible for the speed of the wagon, but you are responsible for the wagon itself.

What do you mean by the phrase "NK IN ADVANCE"?

You are saying that if I am not night-killed tonight (which I will not be), then I am scummy tomorrow. Controlling the NK-speculation before you even make the kill.

It seems really odd that Camn was killed too-when if you were town, you'd have continued to exert most of your energy on him. The fact nobody has pointed this out makes it more valid imo. Your acknowledged this yourself.

Well, one possible motive for killing camn could be to try to make me look scummy - can you think of anybody who has done that so far today?

What makes me know my play has been poor is not the fact that I am still alive, but camn's alignment.



Why weren't you on the Cephrir lynch?

[Battle Mage]

1437 shows Gieff shouldnt have had a massive aversion to a Cephrir lynch. Ah, i think im hitting my head against a brick wall. Gieff's mentality is pretty darn protown.

I did NOT have a massive aversion to a Cephrir-lynch. What I had a massive aversion to was people just blindly charging ahead and lynching one of two lurkers without thinking about it, just because YOU claimed to have some rock-solid meta read on bcc that you couldn't tell us about.

If you felt that was a concern, you should've sucked it up and voted for me. You werent voting for me, or expressing any concern about my affiliation. There was no reason not to trust me, or to throw a hissy-fit - UNLESS you knew that Cephrir was town, and wanted to play for town kudos.

Furthermore, don't even think about criticising people for lynching Cephrir over BCC, when you yourself showed us why Cephrir was more likely to be scum than town. Don't pretend everyone is stupid, when you can't see the consequences of your posts. If you didnt have some sort of aversion to a Cephrir lynch, and you didnt find me particularly scummy, why did you make such a big fuss about BCC? It seems markedly inconsistent, to me.

Why weren't you on the Cephrir wagon, Battle Mage? You worked for pages and pages and pages to get him lynched, but did NOT end up on the wagon, and are already trying to use that fact to make yourself look townie.

*facepalm*

I didnt use it to "make myself look more townie". Read again please.
I used it to point out that the QUICKLYNCH was not my fault, given i was not on the wagon. Before you come out here, guns blazing, please take a deep breath and think carefully about the accusations you are chucking around.

You say the camn kill likely implicated me, and that if I am NOT killed tomorrow, that also implicates me. But you squirm your way out of a commitment by then claming that I play pro-town. Trying to pull a Cephrir?

Pull a Cephrir? lol i dont get it.

Do you not think it's odd that you are still alive, and Camn is dead?
Who do you think the kill implicates?
Why did you feel the burgeoning need to apologise when the game opened?

I'm amused by your claim that

I

am avoiding a commitment. Ironic much? lol

Throw some NK-WIFOM crap my way, wait for people to come charging after you to "make you happy" and then claim you had nothing to do with my

mislynch

tomorrow?

Lol, have you got Jammer on your mind? xD

I think you might be getting a LITTLE over-defensive here.

Bolding mine. Already playing with the subliminal stuff...

BM

[Battle Mage]

You are not responsible for the speed of the wagon, but you are responsible for the wagon itself.

I never made any bones about that. It was the right lynch.

What do you mean by the phrase "NK IN ADVANCE"?

You are saying that if I am not night-killed tonight (which I will not be), then I am scummy tomorrow. Controlling the NK-speculation before you even make the kill.

Lol paranoia about strong players not being NKed is not a new thing for me. Again, i cant reference this, but you could always ask Yos. xD
It's a BM-towntell.

And it's fairly reasonable imo. Why are you so sure you won't be killed tonight? You really think the scum are gonna make their NK based on what I say? xD

It seems really odd that Camn was killed too-when if you were town, you'd have continued to exert most of your energy on him. The fact nobody has pointed this out makes it more valid imo. Your acknowledged this yourself.

Well, one possible motive for killing camn could be to try to make me look scummy - can you think of anybody who has done that so far today?

Just me? And i'm town. So, from my PoV, it's unlikely that the Camn-kill was to implicate you, given nobody has bothered to follow it up. But, i can understand a level of concern from yours.

Note also, that despite your anxious reaction to my comments on you, you arent my 1st of 2nd lynch candidate atm. Why would i have made a fuss of killing Camn last night, if i didnt really intend to pursue you straight afterwards - which would obviously be optimal.

What makes me know my play has been poor is not the fact that I am still alive, but camn's alignment.

Haha, not sure my flip is gonna make you feel much better. lmao

Why weren't you on the Cephrir lynch?

I'm not sure. lol
I dont think i moved my vote back from Zach, after i bailed to attack him for his comments on me and the Ceph/BCC discussion. If i'd noticed, i'd probably have switched back, but the day ended somewhat prematurely...
Does it really matter?

BM

[GIEFF]

I made a big fuss because it matters who we lynch.

My meta did NOT prove Cephrir scum - you keep claiming this, but I don't agree.

Do you not think it's odd that you are still alive, and Camn is dead?

I am not at all surprised to be alive, but I am surprised camn is dead. I think the kill implicates whoever tries to use it to their benefit.

[GIEFF]

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

[Battle Mage]

I made a big fuss because it matters who we lynch.

My meta did NOT prove Cephrir scum - you keep claiming this, but I don't agree.

Well, you're wrong. And i'm not the only one who has pointed this out. The only person here who had ANY meta excuse for thinking Cephrir was town, was Zach. All your evidence pointed to Cephrir-scum, and the fact you didnt pick this up, makes me wonder whether you are genuinely scumhunting, or just trying to distance from a mislynch.

Do you not think it's odd that you are still alive, and Camn is dead?

I am not at all surprised to be alive, but I am surprised camn is dead. I think the kill implicates whoever tries to use it to their benefit.

Of course you WOULD say that.

Maybe we should take a vote?

Comrades:

If you feel that Gieff is town, are you surprised that he is still alive?

Do you not consider yourself the most threatening player in this game? Because, frankly, i do.

Moreover, an interesting question for you:

If i, or anyone, was intending to use the NK to get a mislynch today, tell me- Why would we not NK you, and use that to implicate Camn?

Given there was already alot of support for a Camn lynch, that seems like a far more logical option, dont you think?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Newly-humbled GIEFF is going to take a backseat now to try to avoid way too many pages of text or steering the town in the wrong direction.

Lol! Might i speculate that this is another benefit to you killing Camn? You can become far less confident, and move your vote around more freely. With Camn alive, you had to stay consistent, and that meant keeping close tabs on her.

I'm feeling much better about this...

BM

[GIEFF]

No way. There was severe opposition to a camn lynch, and almost every player in the game has voted for me at one point or another.

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

[Battle Mage]

No way. There was severe opposition to a camn lynch, and almost every player in the game has voted for me at one point or another.

Don't play dumb. I suspect if Camn and you had both been alive today, she'd have been lynched-probably within 72 hours of the thread opening. -.-

I do not consider myself the most threatening player in the game. I think the reason I was not killed is that so many people find me scummy.

Lmao. I call BS. I don't think any scumbag seriously expected they'd be able to push a mislynch on you. One of the basic concepts of the Mountainous setup, is that scum dont need to look for power-roles, so they can concentrate on killing players that they cant lynch.

You fit into this category quite neatly imo. You don't seem quite as open to arguing today either. Tell me, what do you think of KMD?

BM

[GIEFF]

Lmao. I call BS. I don't think any scumbag seriously expected they'd be able to push a mislynch on you.

I appreciate your confidence that I am town.

I think KMD is scummy.

[Benmage]

I just got back, skimmed most of this day. Will go back and read but:

Lynch preference:
SF
DDD

[Benmage]

Ah yes,

Vote SensFan

[Benmage]

@MOD Did BCC pick up his prod?

Ben - What do you reckon we should do with Alex?
Also, what kind of tell do you think the Camn-NK would be towards you?

Alex…let me ponder him. However even if he is scum, there are still two other scum and I’ll feel more comfortable searching out them seeing as I find some individuals very scummy.
Camn NK, re-affrims me as town personally. I openly apologized to her (after first asking the mod to pm her, but was told he couldn’t allow the outside communication.) I came off abrasive and insulting to her, and plan to pm her once this game is over. I was trying to get her out of her defensive shell by D2. Why NK someone who attached their vote to your own.

Lol, you know my views on the length of days. You also know i was Pro-Cephrir lynch. My only issue is the speed with which it happened-i'd rather have seen more discussion beforehand.

I was pro the ceph lynch as well. But I wanted to wait for the prods to go through before hammering. That hammer was disgusting. Yes, gieff I too plan to avoid games with those two individuals. It is very frustrating and in truth I have difficulty comprehending why people sign up for a

game

and then don’t play it…only ruining others fun. If forced to play with them I will adamantly try and policy-lynch them.

I am not at all surprised to be alive, but I am surprised camn is dead. I think the kill implicates whoever tries to use it to their benefit.

I am surprised I am alive.