@Narration: Can we use our personal abilities to self-target, to give a flyer to myself or to redirect to or from ActionDan?
Unfortunately, no. Though, if you gave a flyer to Keeper and AD redirected all actions from Keeper to you, then you would technically self-target. (i.e. with the exception that your action was redirected to self, self-targeting is not allowed.)
Okay then. That simplifies our planning, since it is presumably the same for everyone else as well.
I realized that we have been mixing up terminology here, and your and Hugir's roles are not the same. Hugir is a redirector, while you are more properly known as a deflector. Hugir may have told the truth about their actions, since they do want one of us to die. But if that is so, we're almost safe. If Hugir targets you while you target me, nothing really happens. If Hugir targets me, you will deflect that. IceDragon targeting Hugir would be the only way to make me kill myself.
I had a crazy idea of claiming Benediction scum tomorrow, because town absolutely needs to execute Malediction tomorrow and hope for scum to crosskill. If they execute Benediction, it is all over. We could actually end up in the totally weird situation where Hugir would have to counterclaim us as scum.
Our actions should be pretty straightforward. You deflect actions from me to IceDragon I guess, while I kill Furtive. I can give a flyer to Flavor Leaf, because if Hugir tries and fails to stop me, it may cause the town to turn on Hugir. Investigation may be too risky. Question is, would Hugir try to kill someone as well? If they did, it would likely be Enchant. They can't afford to let a cop live any more than we can.
I'll need to think more on this. This is a right mess we're in, we haven't won yet.
No I agree with you. In fact off hugir survives tomorrow then they can redirect our kill and there's nothing we can do.
I guess the question is, if you were green scum what would you do tomorrow? Would claiming as lone green scum virtually guarantee a loss for them as well?
In post 102, ActionDan wrote:
No I agree with you. In fact if Hugir survives tomorrow then they can redirect our kill and there's nothing we can do.
Not sure what you mean? The way I interpreted it, you could deflect Hugir away from me, unless they had help from IceDragon.
In post 102, ActionDan wrote:
I guess the question is, if you were green scum what would you do tomorrow? Would claiming as lone green scum virtually guarantee a loss for them as well?
If I were to claim Benediction, it would be to surrender. I've done something similar twice as a serial killer, once winning with town due to a strange win condition, and once being totally doomed but motivating myself by playing as if I was a town vig. I could make that part convincing. What I might not succeed at is explaining why I pushed Abnegation yesterday.
In post 104, ActionDan wrote:
I also need to figure out if I claim visited or not. I guess we could use cop power on me? Dunno.
Being suspected for self-targeting is already a point against the Keeper. It might do you more harm than good.
I guess ill just randomly claim scum visited me for the lolz.
Sorry I just meant I agree our actions are pretty straightforward. We cannot afford your kill to be messed with so my deflection will always keep you safe.
Another strategy that came to me - we could continue to play this as if we were town. Instead of claiming Benediction, we could ask Benediction to claim. We could genuinely promise that Benediction would not be executed for doing it, because town simply cannot do that, or we would all be endgamed and Malediction would win. We would propose a truce in order to prevent that, but odds are Benediction won't take the offer. If not, we could suggest that we all vote no execution and leave the outcome up to night actions, and that threat might actually force the Benediction to claim, because they know they could never win that way. That is what I would do here as town - try to blackmail Benediction into helping town.
This could lead to two outcomes - either we execute Keeper or Flavor Leaf and win, or one of us gets bussed, but leaves the other looking a lot townier. After that, the outcome is left to night actions, and depending on those, everyone still has a shot of winning.
I actually like this plan a lot more than abusing my meta to false claim Benediction, and I think the odds of success are higher too.
If one of us gets executed, there are some outcomes, which depend on us and Benediction outguessing each other.
If both target and poison each other, town wins.
If we target Benediction and Benediction targets town, we end up in 2-1-1 with Benediction dying from poison. Then we would just need one town execution to win.
If we target town and Benediction targets us, we would be dying from poison and lose. Benediction would have to come up with something very good to force town to finish us off to win, otherwise they lose.
If both we and Benediction target town, the standoff continues and could lead to a draw.
We do have an advantage here because Benediction does not know who we are, unless they have investigated you before. So even if they target us, they could miss.
There is very little incentive for Benediction to go along with this though. If they don't, we vote to not execute, and another round of night actions decides the outcome.
Okay. I'm changing my flyer target to Hugir then, continuing to tie the investigation and flyer together would be bad.
@Narration: Actions
Feysal kills furtiveglance.
Feysal uses Sedition to give flyer to Hugir.
Feysal uses Malediction to cop/poison doctor Flavor Leaf.
ActionDan uses Deviation on Feysal deflecting to IceDragon70.
@Narration: Actions
Feysal kills furtiveglance.
Feysal uses Sedition to give flyer to Hugir.
Feysal uses Malediction to cop/poison doctor Flavor Leaf.
ActionDan uses Deviation on Feysal deflecting to IceDragon70.
The delay makes me wonder if we have actually managed to break TAR with our actions. If Hugir redirected my actions back to me, you deflected that from me to IceDragon, and IceDragon targeted Hugir and made that action impossible to deflect, we would have a loop of actions which all affect each other. If that is so, I could be waking up in the dead thread. Never seen something like this happen before.
In post 115, ActionDan wrote:
I bet it's more like Hugir directing me to you if anything. I think your kills will still go off hopefully.
True, that is another potential source of ambiguity. Your ability has two targets, so would redirection apply to them both, and if not, which one?
Just saying it here, if we truly have entered a grey area with actions interfering in an unanticipated way, I would not object to calling the game a draw.
Ok Hugir got the flyer... thus you weren't redirected? thus you shot furtive he isn't dead, thus you copped FL no result? THUS FL green? same target? uggg. WHAT IS THIS
My best guess is our kill failed, because Furtive is bulletproof, and left that out from his claim. The delay last night must have been about whether both your targets were affected by Hugir. If it had only been one, Enchant would have gotten a result from IceDragon instead.
Maybe your only chance now is to claim Benediction, though odds of it working are pretty dismal. Or you could do what Rautherdir did and give the town some information about the poisoner, and admit that you don't know either who Benediction is or what is going on.
