Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[Arakorn]

I also think it's worth to give this a shot and lynch Meme, at least we'll get a confirmation on his role next morning... That is unless someone has protective powers to protect Tar.

Vote: MeMe

Tally:

MeMe: (3) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn)

[Arakorn]

Oh and with 10 players left, 6 to lynch. We've got half, maybe we should discuss this a wee bit more before we go off lynching? At least we should hear MeMe, but having a base of votes could be good...

[neko2086]

I agree that Meme needs a chance to say something. I do think though, that we can pretty safely lynch Meme and have a confirmed cop or a confirmed scum D2. Scum would not likely fake-claim when we're not at lylo, so I think this is probably a safe move.

I still don't see why you wouldn't have voted either gorckat or myself instead of Guardian, but if you are indeed a mason-cop, I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore.

vote: Meme

soupfly, I may have exaggerated that a bit, but I can come up with at least one other instance:

vote: neko2086

Quick re-read and I think this is a good start.

after his latest post i see something.

unvote: sirwario

vote: neko2086

and don't ask for an explanation this time. that's getting old.

I originally thought that I had remembered another instance, but it was a random vote on archaist you placed right after my vote on archaist, and I was asking you if you were going with the flow as a sort of a poke and prod to get things going... the game was kinda dead then.

Still, I'm pretty concerned about you. If Meme is indeed scum, then I just have to wonder why she was so adamant that you not be lynched D1.


In the meantime, that would be something good to hear from Meme. Why didn't you like the idea of a soupfly lynch?

[MeMe]

I have to admit, if I were anyone but me, I'd advocate my lynch today as the most useful. Mason with a "confirmed" innocent partner and "confirmed" sanity is easily disproved with my death.

However, I simply cannot just roll over for the "good of the town" since 1) I'm not scum and 2) for scum to try a gambit like this -- they must be close to being able to win this thing.

My thought process right now: Tar's claimed role (confirmed sanity AND someone who can confirm his innocence) is

so

strong that a mafia group would have to be equally strong -- four "regulars" in a night start...probably four with added powers (i.e. no goons -- tracker, role cop, doctor, vote controller, double night-killer, etc.) in the day start we had. I'm having a hard time buying that scenario.

So, what I advocate is that the "partner" exposes himself now so that, if I do wind up today's lynchee, at least there are two scum outed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

To answer neko: the very first note I made on this game was that vellon (soupfly) was probably not scum based on the fact he'd not confirmed AND he'd been completely absent from the site since the roles went out. If I were scum, I would've demanded replacement for a non-responsive partner pre-game. Since Jenter started the game without vellon even (apparently) getting his role, I think he's more than likely town.

[mikeburnfire]

You assert that Tar's role is so powerful that the mafia would have to be amped up for balance purposes. I disagree, as the mechanics of the game make things unpredictable-- it's why I didn't immediately vote you. I think that judgment is this game is off because we're all drunk. Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

However, it bothers me that you immediately assume he's a lying scum and are trying to predict the mafia's setup based on it. I'll probably end up voting for you.

[Arakorn]

So you want (assuming Tar is right) expose another powerful townie for nightkill? My opinion is (still) that we lynch MeMe today, and if he isn't scum, we lynch Tar next time instead.

[soupfly]

So, what I advocate is that the "partner" exposes himself now so that, if I do wind up today's lynchee, at least there are two scum outed.

i don't agree because tar's claim is pretty sound when you consider that 1) he wasn't in danger of being lynched 2) there's no cop counterclaim and 3) the timing doesn't fit a scum play.

i wouldn't out the mason in this case, though i also don't think somebody calling for the other mason to come out is necessarily scum. i think its all a matter of how much you believe tar's claim.

You assert that Tar's role is so powerful that the mafia would have to be amped up for balance purposes. I disagree, as the mechanics of the game make things unpredictable-- it's why I didn't immediately vote you. I think that judgment is this game is off because we're all drunk. Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

However, it bothers me that you immediately assume he's a lying scum and are trying to predict the mafia's setup based on it. I'll probably end up voting for you.

you realize this isn't alcoholics anonymous mafia!? i think you got the two games convinced cause we're not all supposed to be drunk.

[soupfly]

final though on the second mason, if tar has a dual role (cop+mason) then it stands to reason that the other mason may also have a dual role making them all the more valuable. so again, i don't want the second mason to claim.

[mikeburnfire]

you realize this isn't alcoholics anonymous mafia!? i think you got the two games convinced cause we're not all supposed to be drunk.

Sorry about that. I replaced into this game and that game at the same time and they're mixing together in my mind.

[Javert]

Bonjour!

I am replacing Archaist. I shall read the game tout de suite.

[MeMe]

Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

I am a Mason-Cop (mod-confirmed Sane, and my masonry is mod-confirmed innocent).

So you want (assuming Tar is right) expose another powerful townie for nightkill? My opinion is (still) that we lynch MeMe today, and if he isn't scum, we lynch Tar next time instead.

Well, like I said, I'd probably agree with this if I didn't know he was lying. But, since I do, I have to give my opinion as to what's the best way to get as much information as possible.

i don't agree because tar's claim is pretty sound when you consider that 1) he wasn't in danger of being lynched 2) there's no cop counterclaim and 3) the timing doesn't fit a scum play.

Which is precisely why I pointed out...

for scum to try a gambit like this -- they must be close to being able to win this thing.

i wouldn't out the mason in this case, though i also don't think somebody calling for the other mason to come out is necessarily scum. i think its all a matter of how much you believe tar's claim.

And I, of course, disbelieve it 100%.

[MeMe]

And, actually, we haven't had everyone check in to see if there's "no cop counter-claim" yet.

And, actually, I'd prefer a cop NOT counter-claim. No reason for him to out himself when my death (or Tar's) will show up the lie.

[Javert]

First things first.

Mod

, what kind of Godfather was Dead Rikimaru / Sikario8? Did he have investigative immunity? Nightkill immunity? Something else?

Based on the information in the front post that Guardian was a Townie and Dead Rikimaru / Sikario8 was a (the) Godfather, my gut was telling me through Day One (alphabetically):

Likely Town

neko2086
gorckat

Middle

Arakorn (McStab)
Gorgon (Deathguise)
MeMe
Pra a Funkee Homo Sapien (Sammich)

Scummy

mikeburnfire [SirWario (The Jester)]
soupfly (vellon)
Tarhalindur (Selande)

~~~~~

Naturally, my view on Tarhalindur has just completely flipped itself. His actions at the end of yesterday – which were to protest the Dead Rikimaru lynch and to vote Guardian (townie) certainly did not look good to me, as well as his list of three players he thought were scum: {neko2086, Archaist (me), and gorckat}. Seeing as how I thought both neko2086 and gorckat were town, and I know I am town,

everything

he was doing seemed completely wrong.

Although that still weighs on my mind, I will give him the benefit of the doubt today for a few very simple reasons.

1.)

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

2.)

He has claimed to be part of a Masonry – and not just any Masonry, but a mod-confirmed innocent Masonry. This means that if Tarhalindur were lying, he would be banking on not

only

there not being a Cop, but

also

in there not being a Masonry.

3.)

If

he is lying, the town is not put very far back from one mislynch. Assuming this game has 3 mafia and no other scum (although it is too early to tell if that is the case), the town already has a substantial lead in that the GF is dead, and we have only lost a townie. The town loses little by playing a war of attrition: if we trade town for scum at a 1:3 ratio, we still win the game.

4.)

We can be absolutely sure that at least one of {Tarhalindur, MeMe} is scum. Of the two, the more useful role to keep alive if one of them is town would undoubtedly be Tarhalindur.

I will vote MeMe after I feel we have had enough discussion. I also agree that at this time, I do not feel it is necessary for Tar's Mason partner (should one exist) to claim.

[petroleumjelly]

And naturally I err in alphabetizing. That first portion should read:

Likely Town

gorckat
neko2086

[petroleumjelly]

And more naturally I forget I had logged on to this account. What a day.

[MeMe]

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

Absolutely. And don't anyone

dare

let him. I can just envision a "she must have been a miller!" defense tomorrow. I've confirmed with the mod that I should turn up town to any sane investigator.

I will reiterate my concern that the attempt at using this gambit at this time indicates a boldness that only a player close to winning should have.

[Javert]

Your concern is noted, but with the current state of the town -- that being a dead Godfather and a dead Townie -- I find it difficult to believe any faction besides the town is "close to winning".

[MeMe]

~shrugs~

Things look waaaaaaayyyyy different from my chair.

[gorckat]

Checking in. One of my dogs died so I haven't been up to playing, but wow. I hope to be on either tonight or sometime tomorrow.

I'm inclined to believe the cop claim and MeMe's guilt, but haven't done that re-read yet. I'll be back soon, I hope.

[mikeburnfire]

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

Absolutely. And don't anyone

dare

let him. I can just envision a "she must have been a miller!" defense tomorrow. I've confirmed with the mod that I should turn up town to any sane investigator.

Death-Miller-Scum? A scum that appears innocent upon investigation and death? And wants to get lynched so we lynch our cop? That's the feeling that I get. But that would be silly. And bastardmodding.

vote: MeMe

[MeMe]

Well, I had to try.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope this is clear -- don't act until you've talked it out, please!

M1: rudni
M2: rudni+
S: nk

bump merge to 3 (think).

vote: MeMe

[Arakorn]

Uhm, can you vote for yourself? In that case we have 5 votes for MeMe, otherwise:
Tally:

MeMe: (4) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, mikeburnfire)

[soupfly]

Uhm, can you vote for yourself? In that case we have 5 votes for MeMe, otherwise:
Tally:

MeMe: (4) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, mikeburnfire)

i believe its a lynch with 6 votes:

Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, neko, mikeburnfire, meme

besides, meme just admitted she's scum.

[Arakorn]

Well yes but self votes don't count, or do they? Damn, must've missed Neko's vote...

[neko2086]

self votes count. tAre there any rules for talking during twilight in this game? I'm not sure Jenter ever gave us clear rules.