Kingmaker II-Game Over

[ThAdmiral]

I haven't done a full read-through yet, but I seem to remember that zindies play didn't strike me as overly scummy, just...unusual. He has his own style, and thats fine with me.

My thoughts on the loe:

SV - I wouldn't.

Vit - I've been coming round to this one, but I think...

Fritz - is probably the best option today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Cavane, the reason I didn't answer the first question is because I'm not sure what I think the answer is. I can't really defend myself any more than the answer I gave to that question and the comments I made that led to him asking the question, because if I say anything more, Thesp is just going to blame WIFOM on me, and you can't defend against that, so I'm not going to bother continuing that line of thought.

[RafK]

I like Cavane's views and wish to subscribe to his newsletter. It's nice to replace an uncertain (the perpetually lurking DH/Vaughn) with a presence. My view of the "battle lines" here is finally taking shape.

Much as I'm not 100% certain of Fritzler either way, at this point my main problem with a Fritzler lynch is we need a lynch that resolves some arguments once and for all. We need someone executed that will make some people put up or shut up. Fritz is starting to feel like mnowax was yesterday: a late target about whom there's not been a lot of discussion on previous days. The only difference is that whereas mnowax was not one of Yos' own targets originally, but rather a late switch, Zindy raised Fritzler as an option pretty much from the start of this day (if not for that, you'd better believe I would be chalking Zindy up as a definite scum king right about now, instead of keeping an open mind on the subject).

[Cavane]

Sorry about the lack of who was being quoted. My quote tags break whenever I include a name. In any case, I wasn't necessarily expecting responses from each of the people concerned. That was more for the benefit of the rest of the players, to know where I stand on recent events.

RafK: To begin recieving my newsletter, place $200 (A 20 year subscription) beneath the dumpster on Fourth and Main. You'll find your new issue in the same place bimonthly. Ask about our Gaurantee! Also, who do you think would be the most informative execution, not limiting yourself to the LoE?

mnowax and ThAdmiral: Listen to Yos.

[Mastermind of Sin]

To be honest, SV is probably our best execution today. I agree that Fritzler is starting to look like yesterday's lynch, even though I think he could be scum. SV is another possible scum, and there's been enough debate on her that we'd gain a lot of info from her execution.

[VitaminR]

VitR- I could go for his head. His tactics are a little shady when it comes to defense

I only defended myself yesterday. Today, no one has actually specified what they find suspicious about me. All that has happened is that I stated suspicions of PJ, part of which included disagreeing with his analysis of someone, and then people disagreed with my disagreeing.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Hammer Fritz or Mnowax, now.

[Thesp]

Vote: Fritzler, VitaminR

*gasp*

Now it's 4/3-3/2. I honestly don't see how 4 out of 16 means it's the "will of the people", or any more than Fritzler and Vitty are.

This helps. Thanks!

Why are you still side-stepping Mastermind of Sin? Why isn't he on there?

Also, lynching someone because it will give us information is a terrible reason to lynch someone.

[RafK]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Hammer Fritz or Mnowax, now.[/quote]

Worried about something?

There's definitely sides coalescing on this one. The people desperate for the execution to be Fritz or mnowax (anything but SV!), and the other people. Some of the other people want SV dead, some are looking all around, but there's definitely a bloc fixated on avoiding the execution of anyone who's been the focus of argument. I believe the name of that bloc is "all or mostly scum".

To answer Cavane's question: Yos2, hands down. There is still a slight possibility that SV is a townie being used by the mafia as a stalking horse, someone they defend to gain credibility if a townie executes her. SV has not on the whole, since about day 2, been heavily involved in arguing for and against executions. Yos is no-one's stalking horse. Execution of Yos would establish which "side" is the scummy one. However, of the LOE, I would still execute SV. I think it would be very difficult (especially with the million or so replacements) for the scum to try and set a townie SV up like that.

[Thesp]

There is still a slight possibility that SV is a townie being used by the mafia as a stalking horse, someone they defend to gain credibility if a townie executes her.

See, I though SV was mafia being set up as a speedbump for the rest of the mafia bus.

[Yosarian2]

To answer Cavane's question: Yos2, hands down. There is still a slight possibility that SV is a townie being used by the mafia as a stalking horse, someone they defend to gain credibility if a townie executes her. SV has not on the whole, since about day 2, been heavily involved in arguing for and against executions. Yos is no-one's stalking horse. Execution of Yos would establish which "side" is the scummy one.

:eyebrow:

I'm curious. What, exactally, would my death "establish"? Assume, for the sake of argument, that I ws executed and I came up pro-town. What would that prove, exactally?

[RafK]

Would prove I'm full of crap, and probably lead to the execution of myself and others you have been against.

However, I am very very very confident that you would come up scum- knowing that I am town, if you're town as well then the scum have an easy win here by getting you killed (whether by execution or nightkill) and then me executed in retaliation. Or alternatively me nightkilled, and you executed in retaliation. The scum are avoiding this confrontation- there hasn't been a massive chorus of support either with me or directly against me. Instead, time and again the thrust of the support goes to a target off to the side.

[Yosarian2]

Would prove I'm full of crap, and probably lead to the execution of myself and others you have been against.

However, I am very very very confident that you would come up scum- knowing that I am town, if you're town as well then the scum have an easy win here by getting you killed (whether by execution or nightkill) and then me executed in retaliation. Or alternatively me nightkilled, and you executed in retaliation. The scum are avoiding this confrontation- there hasn't been a massive chorus of support either with me or directly against me. Instead, time and again the thrust of the support goes to a target off to the side.

How would me being town prove you were scum and get you executed? It would prove that you were WRONG, of course, but I've never argued that you're especally scummy; I tend to thing you're most likely a misguided townie, personally. And I'm not surprised the scum haven't "gone after you"; so long as you continue your crusade against me, you help keep the focus off the scum, and your incorrect assumption that I'm scum could be very dangerous for the town if we both make it to endgame.

[spectrumvoid]

I thought the reason would be pretty obvious for me not getting into the arguments for who's to be lynched today...

I'm one of the execution-candidates. As such, I will obviously be saying the other 2 are scummy. So I don't see how my input will add much to the game.

I'm not getting why Fritzler is 'yesterday's lynch' though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The comments and actions regarding a possible Fritzler execution are seeming a lot like those regarding Mnowax's execution yesterday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Fritzler, VitaminR

*gasp*

Now it's 4/3-3/2. I honestly don't see how 4 out of 16 means it's the "will of the people", or any more than Fritzler and Vitty are.

This helps. Thanks!

Why are you still side-stepping Mastermind of Sin? Why isn't he on there?

Also, lynching someone because it will give us information is a terrible reason to lynch someone.

Thank you for completely ignoring the fact that I think SV is scummy and sidestepping that issue to try and twist my words into something bad.

[Cavane]

Also, lynching someone because it will give us information is a terrible reason to lynch someone.

And I disagree with that, in any case. Especially in a game with no investigative roles, lynching for information is perfectly valid.

[Thok]

I'll politely remind people that Thesp and Thok are different people. Only Thok has the power to modkill people in this game.

Official vote count

King Zindaras (1):

Fritzler, VitaminR

List of Execution:

SV, VitaminR, Fritzler

Cavane (2):
Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Fritzler (2):
KaleiÐoscøpe (0): mnowax, Fritzler
Lowell (1):
Mastermind of Sin (4):
mnowax (3): (MOS)
petroleumjelly (1): mnowax, SV, VitaminR
RafK (0): Yosarian2, SV
spectrumvoid (6): MOS, Fritzler
ThAdmiral (0):
Thesp (0): MOS, SV, Cavane, Zindaras
Toaster Strudel (0): MOS, SV, Cavane, VitaminR, mnowax
VitaminR (3): SV, PetroleumJelly
Yosarian2 (1): Lowell

[Cavane]

Ack, sorry about that. That was Thesp's quote, obv. You can fix it, if you like Thok.

[RafK]

FWIW, Zindy, SV has the highest number of votes too. Just saying

[Thesp]

Vote: Fritzler, VitaminR

*gasp*

Now it's 4/3-3/2. I honestly don't see how 4 out of 16 means it's the "will of the people", or any more than Fritzler and Vitty are.

This helps. Thanks!

Why are you still side-stepping Mastermind of Sin? Why isn't he on there?

Also, lynching someone because it will give us information is a terrible reason to lynch someone.

Thank you for completely ignoring the fact that I think SV is scummy and sidestepping that issue to try and twist my words into something bad.

I'm confused. How did my attack on Zindaras here have anything to do with what you're suggesting?

(reads back)

Ah, you're upset that I think lynching someone to gain information is a terrible, terrible idea/strategy/way of doing things. If you think SV is scummy (and it seems you do), all power to you. However, when you say, "SV is another possible scum, and there's been enough debate on her that we'd gain a lot of info from her execution", I have to take issue with that. If you list 5 good reasons and one "suspect" reason, it seems absurd to me that I oughtn't call out the "suspect" reason (which is what you're suggesting here).

And I disagree with that, in any case. Especially in a game with no investigative roles, lynching for information is perfectly valid.

We're going to get information no matter what. We should lynch someone because we think they're scum. Lynching scum gives us a heck of a lot more info than lynching a random townie because lots of people have weighed in on said random townie.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Thesp, it's not a bad reason

unless

you don't think the person is scum. Taking two relatively scummy people and lynching one because they give you more information to act on the next day is a

good

thing, not a terrible thing.

[Fritzler]

See the vote count - You and mnowax have 4 & 3 votes respectively, while Fritzler and VitaminR have 2 and 1 respectively. For a king who seems to be not participating very much in his own reign, I find it especially odd he glossed over some apparent will of the people without so much as a word.

Vote: Fritzler, VitaminR

*gasp*

Now it's 4/3-3/2. I honestly don't see how 4 out of 16 means it's the "will of the people", or any more than Fritzler and Vitty are.

forgive me for not taking this seriously

[Zindaras]

Sorry about the lack of who was being quoted. My quote tags break whenever I include a name. In any case, I wasn't necessarily expecting responses from each of the people concerned. That was more for the benefit of the rest of the players, to know where I stand on recent events.

Put " " around the names.

This helps. Thanks!

You're welcome.

Why are you still side-stepping Mastermind of Sin?

I ain't side-stepping no one, dear Thesp. He isn't on my LoE, so I believe he's not a good execution. I believe that the huge amount of flak he got for his unorthodox playstyle in this game is an indicator of being town. Your case is reasonable, but I do not believe it makes him a better execution than others.

Why isn't he on there?

Because I don't believe he's a good execution. Also, for your information, I will not be coerced into executing anyone.

I thought the reason would be pretty obvious for me not getting into the arguments for who's to be lynched today...

I'm one of the execution-candidates. As such, I will obviously be saying the other 2 are scummy. So I don't see how my input will add much to the game.

Yuck. This looks scummity scummity scum to me. But, my dear voidybuns, you're not getting away this easily.

What amazes me, time and time again, is the value people place in the LoE. Essentially, an LoE is intangible, irrelevant. It says very very little. Now, voidybuns, all that your strategy accomplishes is that it makes you look even scummier because you look frightfully opportunistic.

[Zindaras]

forgive me for not taking this seriously

Hey Fritz. I love you.

Who's the play?