Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Aneninen]

I find it hilarious and amazing that no one pointed out that I tried to get Hindu to be the one that hid behind Mastina.

I haven't caught up and I don't have time to do so but we should check this whether it's true. RC has all the motivation to lie.

[Aneninen]

Hold up— why arent we lynching RC? What the hell is this setup? 12 - 3 and one scum is traitor?

Also that. It sounds unbalanced.

[Aneninen]

Whom are we lynching?
If RC, Ghostlin should target GuiltyLion or me at Night if he gets shot.

[beeboy]

Day 2, VC 5

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Radiant Cowbells (7)

- GuiltyLion, Smocaine, BigYoshiFan, Something_Smart, Errantparabola, Ghostlin, singersigner

Ghostlin (3)

- Vonflare, Katyusha, Creature

Aneninen (1)

- RadiantCowbells

Not Voting (1)

- Aneninen

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-02-13 23:59:00)

[beeboy]

RadiantCowbells was lynched day 2 he was a

Spoiler:

Mafia Goon

You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partners, [Team Name] and [Team Name].

Abilities:

For the first 4 days you may vote for a player to receive an invention.
You may vote for a player to by lynched.
Factional Communication: You may communicate with your partners during the day and night here

Win condition:

You win when your faction controls 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.

The inventors mafia game thread and mechanics can be found here

(expired on 2018-02-07 23:59:00)

[beeboy]

Katyusha died night two she was a.

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Abilities:

For the first 4 days you may vote for a player to receive an invention.
You may vote for a player to by lynched.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

The inventors mafia game thread and mechanics can be found here

[beeboy]

Day 3, VC 1

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Not Voting (12)

- Aneninen, Katyusha, Ghostlin, Something_Smart, singersigner, Errantparabola, Vonflare, Smocaine, GuiltyLion, BigYoshiFan, Creature

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-02-22 08:59:00)

Invention Vote

1-shot Doctor: During the night you may target another player and protect them from being killed during the night.

Not Voting (10)

- Aneninen, Katyusha, Ghostlin, Something_Smart, singersigner, Errantparabola, Vonflare, Smocaine, GuiltyLion, BigYoshiFan, Creature

[Something_Smart]

My first thought was that that kill probably comes from someone who was calling Kat strongly town. (Although I didn't say anything I was actually starting to not like her posts near the end of the day.)

However, I think it's more likely that RC just told his partner who to kill.

[Smocaine]

I killed Katyusha for being openly anti-communism.

[singersigner]

My first thought was that that kill probably comes from someone who was calling Kat strongly town. (Although I didn't say anything I was actually starting to not like her posts near the end of the day.)

However, I think it's more likely that RC just told his partner who to kill.

What makes you think this? For either theory.

[singersigner]

@beeboy...is the doctor self-targetable?

[Aneninen]

I strongly think that in this situation analysing the Nightkill is a WIFOM goldmine.
If anyone happens to be interested in my opinion, I'll say Katyusha got Nightkilled because she wasn't in the lynchpool. That's all we know.

We need to decide the following:
(1) Either we lynch Ghostlin and decide whom he shall Vengekill or
(2) We lynch someone else and save the Vengekill ability for later.

Also,

@beeboy...is the doctor self-targetable?

This is an important question.
I think if self-targetting is allowed we should pick the most commonly townread player. If not, we should pick one of our scumreads.

There's another question for everyone. Should we massclaim Today or not? My opinion on this topic is clearly irrelevant.

[Creature]

I guess 2, because scum!Ghostlin would've conceded.

[vonflare]

I guess 2, because scum!Ghostlin would've conceded.

either way and regardless of anything else we lynch ghost in lylo if we get there

[beeboy]

@beeboy...is the doctor self-targetable?

No

[GuiltyLion]

@Ghostlin

- who do you currently want to venge?

Since the doctor can't self-target, I think we should elect a scummier player and make them promise to protect Smocaine or Creature.

I'm actually thinking now that Anenien is the last scum. The way he formulaically stuck to his "scum didn't bus Mastina" gamestate view on D2 and shaded my slot throughout while still pushing Ghostlin - essentially putting us on the same tier - feels like scum that needs a bunch of mislynches. Add in the repeated "I shouldn't live until LYLO" mantra for WIFOM, his reluctance to conftown the Smocaine slot (also saying that the slot shouldn't be alive in LYLO?), and his general "lynchpool" approach and it doesn't feel to me like genuine sorting, more like trying to establish a favorable chain of lynches and encourage town infighting.

@Anen - can you break down why you keep saying Smocaine shouldn't be alive in LYLO? what difference does it make lynching him earlier rather than later, and isn't that dependent on his alignment? What is gained by lynching him at 5p rather than 3p?

[Aneninen]

I guess 2, because scum!Ghostlin would've conceded.

either way and regardless of anything else we lynch ghost in lylo if we get there

Creature, we can not be sure. It's not over 'till it's over.
Vonflare: in this game, Vengeful doesn't work in LyLo.

@Ghostlin

- who do you currently want to venge?

Ghostlin, do not answer this yet!

Since the doctor can't self-target, I think we should elect a scummier player and make them promise to protect Smocaine or Creature.

The question above and this makes me feel that you want to know what the PRs are doing. Why?

As for the election, that was my first thought too. We definitely shouldn't choose a generally townread player. If we did so, the scum would simply Nightkill them. Choosing a scummy one would be better... unless we elect the remaining scum.
What if we elect ErrantParabola? He may or may not be lynchable, so not an obvious Nightkill. (So if the scum targets him we won't lose an obv-town player out of the lynch-pool.) However, he may pick someone who's widely townread. But, he's still not as scummy as some of us.

I'm actually thinking now that Anenien is the last scum. The way he formulaically stuck to his "scum didn't bus Mastina" gamestate view on D2 and shaded my slot throughout while still pushing Ghostlin - essentially putting us on the same tier - feels like scum that needs a bunch of mislynches.

Remember, I examined not only the posts themselves but all the interactions with Mastina and RC (and the other way around too).

Add in the repeated "I shouldn't live until LYLO" mantra for WIFOM, his reluctance to conftown the Smocaine slot (also saying that the slot shouldn't be alive in LYLO?), and his general "lynchpool" approach and it doesn't feel to me like genuine sorting, more like trying to establish a favorable chain of lynches and encourage town infighting.

So many things to answer.
Firstly, I still don't think I should be here in LyLo.
Secondly, Smocaine can not be called conf-town. Chesskid's Elli-tell and the whole push might have been artificial too. And the whole Day1 with all the fight, the walls, the spam might have been planned by the scum team.
Thirdly, I think you were the one who wanted to widen the lynch-pool on Day2. My "chain of lynches" was merely a suggestion and it's obvious that it won't happen if all the others are disagree with my reads.
Forthly, what "town infight" are you talking about? Every single scumread on a townie is a "town infight".

@Anen - can you break down why you keep saying Smocaine shouldn't be alive in LYLO? what difference does it make lynching him earlier rather than later, and isn't that dependent on his alignment? What is gained by lynching him at 5p rather than 3p?

Partly, see above!
Also, if Smocaine were here in LyLo, we'd end up in a WIFOM. (It's on the Wiki page too.)

[Something_Smart]

My first thought was that that kill probably comes from someone who was calling Kat strongly town. (Although I didn't say anything I was actually starting to not like her posts near the end of the day.)

However, I think it's more likely that RC just told his partner who to kill.

What makes you think this? For either theory.

Scum aren't going to kill people who they think might be lynched, exactly as Anen said. Therefore the scum didn't think that Kat was going to be lynched. If the last scum decided on the kill on their own, then that person believed that Kat would not be lynched and therefore probably had her as a solid townread.

Of course, it's likely that it was not entirely the last scum's decision but instead was RC's idea-- in which case it was HIS opinion, rather than the last scum's, that she would not be lynched.

[singersigner]

Ok but you realize that you don't have to call someone town to think they won't be lynched, right? That's where my confusion is. Your speculation makes no sense because scum can make up whatever reads they want and try to justify them however they can, because they'll know the outcome.

Like, as scum, I could easily night kill Aneninen, someone I've been calling scummy for a while, simply because I don't think I'll ever get him lynched based on everyone else's town reads of him.

Saying she would only be killed by someone who called her town is dumb speculation for the sake of speculation. Furthermore, it sounds like a premeditated statement that you are preemptively defending with your "well I know I called her town but I didn't actually think that towards the end so please believe me so it doesn't look bad."

[GuiltyLion]

@Ghostlin

- who do you currently want to venge?

Ghostlin, do not answer this yet!

why can't Ghostlin answer this??? Either we lynch him today and he venges, or it doesn't matter who he currently wants to venge. If we're lynching him today I'd like to know this answer so people can discuss it. You can't have a "consensus venge" without Ghostlin's choice as a starting point. There's literally no issue with him answering it.

Since the doctor can't self-target, I think we should elect a scummier player and make them promise to protect Smocaine or Creature.

The question above and this makes me feel that you want to know what the PRs are doing. Why?

uh, what? What PRs are you talking about, the venge and the doc? What I said is no different than what you said, I was agreeing on that point.

Secondly, Smocaine can not be called conf-town. Chesskid's Elli-tell and the whole push might have been artificial too. And the whole Day1 with all the fight, the walls, the spam might have been planned by the scum team.

Yeah but both Smart and Ghostlin have already pointed out succinctly why this is pretty much impossibly unlikely in 3427 and 3430. And yet you keep riffing on this. FMPOV there's no reason to even consider a world of scum!Smocaine until you basically get to 3p LYLO and he's not dead yet. So I don't understand why you've been bringing it up and it looks far more like you're trying to plan for some long term gamestate where Smocaine is still a potential lynch than gain anything that benefits town from it. Looks to me like "widening the lynchpool".

and you didn't answer my question:

ASSUMING WE ARE TO LYNCH SMOCAINE

, what exactly is gained in your view by lynching him prior to LYLO (i.e. post 3087)?

Thirdly, I think you were the one who wanted to widen the lynch-pool on Day2. My "chain of lynches" was merely a suggestion and it's obvious that it won't happen if all the others are disagree with my reads.

Okay, if you're going to again accuse me of "widening the lynchpool", then please explain:

1) Who is in Anen's lynchpool
2) Who is in GL's lynchpool
3) Why set 2 is larger than set 3

Forthly, what "town infight" are you talking about? Every single scumread on a townie is a "town infight".

see above re:Smocaine. I'm not seeing why you say the things that you say

[Something_Smart]

Ok but you realize that you don't have to call someone town to think they won't be lynched, right? That's where my confusion is. Your speculation makes no sense because scum can make up whatever reads they want and try to justify them however they can, because they'll know the outcome.

Can? Sure. Are likely to? Doubtful.

I don't see why scum would fake a scumread on someone they believe to be widely townread. (Unless they're making a refuge in audacity play which I'm reasonably certain does not apply to anyone here.) The whole point of playing scum is to get townies mislynched and to not get lynched yourself. If you claim to scumread someone who is widely townread, (a) you're going to have to push them even though you know you'll never mislynch them, and (b) you're going to look suspicious for attacking someone whom everyone trusts.

[Errantparabola]

Really dont think scum doubtcasts smocaine here but i could be mistaken

[singersigner]

Ok but you realize that you don't have to call someone town to think they won't be lynched, right? That's where my confusion is. Your speculation makes no sense because scum can make up whatever reads they want and try to justify them however they can, because they'll know the outcome.

Can? Sure. Are likely to? Doubtful.

I don't see why scum would fake a scumread on someone they believe to be widely townread.

(Unless they're making a refuge in audacity play which I'm reasonably certain does not apply to anyone here.) The whole point of playing scum is to get townies mislynched and to not get lynched yourself. If you claim to scumread someone who is widely townread, (a) you're going to have to push them even though you know you'll never mislynch them, and (b) you're going to look suspicious for attacking someone whom everyone trusts.

Congratulations. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

Like, if it was that binary this game would be a whole lot easier, don't you think?

[Smocaine]

anemone stop tinfoiling and go drink some tap water.

[vonflare]

Is everyone like VT or something?

weird post, not sure if townslip or 'townslip'

did you intentionally softclaim vt?

I think we should elect a scummier player and make them promise to protect Smocaine or Creature.

why these 2?

which one in particular?