Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Smocaine]

ebwop: boo vonflare, boooooooo

[RadiantCowbells]

I just want out of this game, replace me pls ):

if you make 300 posts calling for scum!GL's lynch I will get my partner to kill you tonight

[vonflare]

ebwop: boo vonflare, boooooooo

problemo?


I'll read up tomorrow morning. Anything I should know beforehand?

[RadiantCowbells]

Me and Katyusha are lovers.

[Errantparabola]

Sorry dudes. Still swamped. I have some thoughts from before that I might just throw out tonight before really reading hard, but in the meantime some combo of SS/BYF/Aneninen tell me what's been going on/thoughts/the plan. thx

[Aneninen]

Catching up later, but here's a short summary for Vonflare (and partly for Errant, too).

1. Mastina was lynched on Day1, she flipped scum.
2. Reckoner was Hider, targetted RadiantCowbells and died. Therefore (adding RC's posting style on Day2) RadiantCowbells is scum too.
3. We're lynching RadiantCowbells Today, but we need to decide who gets the next Invention, which is Vengeful (it works at Night as well).
4. The Vengeful will go to someone whom we find scummy and don't want to see at LyLo. So far the three scummiest-looking players are: Ghostlin, GuiltyLion, Aneninen (not ordered).

I think, that's the short summary, and I've tried to be un-biased.

[BigYoshiFan]

And I guess there's debate over whether we want to lynch the vengeful-target tomorrow. Someone had the alternative of giving the vengeful to someone we found scummy, AND lynch them today as to avoid the possibility of two town players dying, but RC is clearly scum.

[Aneninen]

When do you think it was "pretty much decided"?

Honestly, that's what I can remember. (It was about Reckoner's target.) It was a kind of process to decide the target, but it happened way before the lynch. (Even if I had ...not so good alternative ideas.)

I do not know what GL is talking about, and question it's RELEVANCY.

See above.

I think it's more likely the third scum bussed than counterwagoned

And I still think you're widening the lynch pool. (I'm not ruling that out completely, but I don't think it happened.)

I read it just now and have no clue what you guys are talking about aside from the fact that you hammered(?) mastina. I only know one thing, and that is LYNCH GL.

My chesskid programmed responses to your other post about me is as follows:
1. lynch GL
2. LYNCH GL
3. gl lynch

Was the first part for me? I'm a he anyway.
But okay, I believe you. If we want to get GuiltyLion lynched, shouldn't we give him the Invention?

it's mostly wagon position honestly. There was a swing towards my lynch and then a pendulum turbo swing back to Mastina.

Obviously mostly town drove that but I could see you as scum hopping on

, especially so you could make this exact post. "scum!me doesn't have an advantage of bussing my partner there" isn't really a defense I can agree with because if I agree with it then it did in fact give scum!you an advantage.

You're searching for scum among'st those who sped up the Mastina-wagon? That doesn't add up.

there was definitely a lot of read changes and re-evaluation going on under the hood in my ISO which I didn't lay out in thread

Need we believe this?

and I'm not trying to widen the lynch pool - I'm trying to take S_S/Ghostlin/BYF out of the lynchpool and replace them with singer I guess, mainly. You were trying to say anyone who voted Mastina is probably not scum and that's just kinda the exact opposite of how I feel here.

There were eight players on that wagon. Why Singersinger?
Also, if you say it was likely that the scum bussed, you're talking about more people, not only Singersinger.
Again, it doesn't add up.

There's a pretty major flaw in auto-lynching the

night-killed

vengeful if they don't shoot our target...
...I just really needed to comment on this point in particular, because, well...you know...well I hope you know by now...

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Mathdino suggested an alternative idea for today

That's a terrible idea.
We have a confirmed scum. Lynching someone who

may

be scum can never be better than lynching the confirmed one.

Sorry dudes. Still swamped. I have some thoughts from before that I might just throw out tonight before really reading hard, but in the meantime some combo of SS/BYF/Aneninen tell me what's been going on/thoughts/the plan. thx

I'm looking forward to reading some more content from you.

[Aneninen]

Let's see

Errantparabola

.

There's not much to say. In 2244 he had a townread on Mastina in the first part of his catchup. Which developed to a "not townreading" and a "somewhere in the middle, scummiest". I don't know whether it was genuine.

2248

"I think it's highly unlikely (maybe even impossible?) that reck + chess + RC + mastina is town"

, which isn't too informative in our current situation.

2251

"I wouldn't mind lynching you then mastina and it worries me that people aren't really considering that option. ... At this point I don't really have a read on mastina."

(The first part was for Chesskid.) Hmm...

2358

"My main pause on whatever chesskid plan goes through is I don’t know yet if the lines are as cut and dry as “rc and mastina are both scum.” It just seems unlikely to me... I’ll go back and read Hindu posts on the matter (why he’s town) before pulling through with a lynch on chess/mastina, whoever"

Hmmmmmm...
There's something else in the same post:

Spoiler:

4. I buy that RC is capable of confident reading mastina that quickly and that he’s capable of confident reading chesskid scum at this point in time. But back when I was reading RC fighting chesskid, oh, idk, about 60 pages ago, i felt like there was a distinct possibility that RC’s fight with chesskid was constructed, like he went and told his team that he needed to get rid of chesskid immediately (i know he’s basically admitted to doing as such for miscellaneous town perspective reasons). Because i felt like a lot of his fire didnt have fuel.

But I also do know I read a lot of RC posts and just went: there’s no way this isn’t town. a lot of my impressions are lost in the sheer amount of posts and maybe I might go back and check but let’s be honest, probably not gonna happen

5. Last point- mastina definitely isnt capable of catching up as fast as I did. Well, she is, but I read for like 5 total hours and collected my thoughts as fast as possible while doing it. Mastina, wallposter and overanalyzer that she is, i dont know. Like it’s humanly capable but I dont know if its realistic to expect it from her, town or not

I can imagine him as their partner after reading that above.

In 2860 Mastina ended up on the "People who would conceivably get lynched today" list, RC on the "People who I would be willing to say are town currently, just from a working perspective".

RC was townread by him in many posts. He had very little interaction with both RC and Mastina.

Checking his posts again, I can see that his vote was parked on Katyusha, and he seemed to try to get reads on other players... but most of these latter reads were never crystallized.

TL;DR – He could be the third scum. I'm not sure whether he's scummier than Hinduragi/Ghostlin or not. We definitely need more content from Errant.

[Something_Smart]

GL, how likely would you have been to take a scum role?

don't really feel like answering this is worth all the tiptoeing I'd have to do about ongoing games. If people say I'm the most likely to take a scum role PM on my team as a reason to lynch me then IMO you should evaluate that claim yourself without me arguing about it. my flip will be a better data point then anything I say while alive anyway

Just answer it as you would before the event started. i.e. you know your teammates but don't have role PM's yet... would you want to pick town or scum?

For instance, I can say, without risking violating any rules, that I wouldn't take scum unless I was pretty much forced to since my scumgame is way worse than my towngame.

[RadiantCowbells]

AND YOU WILL ANSWER TO THE NAME

[GuiltyLion]

I'll respond to the rest of Anen's post later but just want to quickly point out to Smocaine/Anenien that your criticisms of my lynch elsewhere and venge-RC plan today don't make any sense. There is a significant difference between lynching confscum RC vs venging confscum RC.

If we lynch elsewhere with the promise of the venge being used on RC, then between D2 and D3 we use the lynches collaboratively which is juicier for content and information. If we use one of the lynches on confscum RC then it doesn't tell us anything (because scum are absolutely "bussing" him here, if you can even call it that). And if town uses venge on another town that also doesn't really tell us anything as both of them will be dead. While the numbers work out the same by N3, we actually get more info out of taking out RC with the venge and using the lynch as a team tool, as it will require the last scum to take stances and push for/against wagons, even if they do wind up being mislynches. If we just give venge to a townie who's scumreading another townie, scum can sit back and play it safe.

does that make sense? IMO this is a pretty obviously superior plan so it's surprising that you guys don't see that.

[GuiltyLion]

Just answer it as you would before the event started. i.e. you know your teammates but don't have role PM's yet... would you want to pick town or scum?

I mean I always want to pick town because it's more fun to play, but my team agreed beforehand that I'm probably the second best scum player on our team after kmd. So I would have been somewhat likely to take a scum role if we got one, but it also would have depended on our scumpartner teams and the particular setup of the game involved.

[vonflare]

I'll respond to the rest of Anen's post later but just want to quickly point out to Smocaine/Anenien that your criticisms of my lynch elsewhere and venge-RC plan today don't make any sense. There is a significant difference between lynching confscum RC vs venging confscum RC.

If we lynch elsewhere with the promise of the venge being used on RC, then between D2 and D3 we use the lynches collaboratively which is juicier for content and information. If we use one of the lynches on confscum RC then it doesn't tell us anything (because scum are absolutely "bussing" him here, if you can even call it that). And if town uses venge on another town that also doesn't really tell us anything as both of them will be dead. While the numbers work out the same by N3, we actually get more info out of taking out RC with the venge and using the lynch as a team tool, as it will require the last scum to take stances and push for/against wagons, even if they do wind up being mislynches. If we just give venge to a townie who's scumreading another townie, scum can sit back and play it safe.

does that make sense? IMO this is a pretty obviously superior plan so it's surprising that you guys don't see that.

still catching up, but I speak from personal experience that leaving universally confirmed scum alive is always bad, they have no incentive to post whatsoever unless they feel like trolling. At best we get a 'prod dodge' every other day, at worst we get smart manipulative wifom. there is no situation where we get more information out of leaving RC alive.

and there's no distinction between the venge and the lynch. "If we just give venge to a townie who's scumreading another townie, scum can sit back and play it safe" is assuming we won't give it to a player who agrees to venge according to majority wishes. plus, I'd argue it's just as likely that we

lynch

town as it is that a random townie would

venge

town.

[GuiltyLion]

RC still dies at the end of today, so any point about "leaving scum alive" is completely irrelevant

on your last point - I disagree? A unilateral decision by a townie is more likely to be wrong than a consensus effort of all townies. We could force the venge onto a player by consensus, but mechanically that's no different than my plan at that point and we might as well just use the lynch instead so there are actual stakes and people are forced to use votes instead of pseudovotes

[GuiltyLion]

like are you guys just misunderstanding me? There's nothing that says we can't use the venge today. I'm saying whoever gets elected venge today is lynched today and uses it on RC today. So it's completely not cogent to say "leaving scum alive is bad!" like Anenien and vonflare just did.

[vonflare]

on your last point - I disagree? A unilateral decision by a townie is more likely to be wrong than a consensus effort of all townies

and the remaining scum, who also get input

.

[vonflare]

wait, how can we ensure the venge triggers today?

[RadiantCowbells]

you give me the venge

[GuiltyLion]

on your last point - I disagree? A unilateral decision by a townie is more likely to be wrong than a consensus effort of all townies

and the remaining scum, who also get input

.

the remaining scum gets input if you try to make it a consensus venge as well, so how is that different? The only way we are going to catch the scum is through their input. I think the scum's input will be more noticeably fake/scum-motivated if they are giving input on a consensus lynch rather than who a townie mislynch should venge.

[GuiltyLion]

like if nothing else, it will be easier to track votes later via the VCs than via some manually half organized "who is the venge today" discussion

[vonflare]

RC still dies at the end of today

how?

[vonflare]

and if you're suggesting we give the lynch target the venge and have them promise to use it on RC

that's either stupidity or scumclaim

if we actually do lynch scum, which would be the only good outcome of lynching anyone other than RC, then they shoot town.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm saying whoever gets elected venge today is lynched today and uses it on RC today.

[GuiltyLion]

if we actually do lynch scum, which would be the only good outcome of lynching anyone other than RC, then they shoot town.

and then RC is LITERALLY CONFSCUM on D3 and we win

shading this as being a scumclaim is really bizarre and dense. Please think about what I am posting before you post, thanks