Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Something_Smart]

I agree that we should give the vengekill to a scumread. We're on the same page in that regard.

Okay so why aren't you electing me?

Because you're too towny.

[GuiltyLion]

Also, as far as I can remember, Reckoner's target was pretty much decided.

When do you think it was "pretty much decided"? I haven't bothered to go back and reread a lot of D1, but just looking at a few posts as a snapshot:

-The VC where I was a leading wagon was 2768
-Prior to that by half a day, RC and Reck were arguing about the hider and Reck posted this:

I WILL GO WITH WHATEVER SIDE MAKES THIS END THE QUICKEST JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

i want to hide behind mastina but chess is being a bitch

So I would say that at least as of 2616 as an early bound, 2768 as a later bound, the Mastina lynch was not decided and the hide behind RC was not decided.
Even as of 2874, you yourself did not think the hider had been decided:

(3) We still need to decide whom should Reckoner target.

so it's "pigeon poop" to suggest that the lynch!mastina-hide!RC plan was decided up until significantly late in D1. You are implying that it was obvious mastina was going down and so both scum must have fought against it, but it's entirely plausible if not likely that RC took on that duty while the other scum tried to position themselves to look good in the twofer worst case scenario - especially since that's probably the only way they win the game at this point.

[Smocaine]

I do not know what GL is talking about, and question it's RELEVANCY. IT APPEARS YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOUR BUSSING STANCE THO.

[GuiltyLion]

How do you have me lower than Yoshi?

I don't see many reasons other than the bussing possibility to nullify my reasons for townreading BYF yesterday. I still don't feel like you ever took a proactive role in sorting/game-solving yesterDay, holistically I haven't had many "this is town" pings from your ISO

p-edit: Smocaine - how am I contradicting my bussing stance?

[Smocaine]

Tell me why what you are saying in 3301 is pertinent to the ongoing discussion of tomorrow's GL lynch first.

[GuiltyLion]

guilty why are you null on creature btw

I'm not null on him, my readslist is a descending order of "likely to be town". Since there's only one scum after RC pretty much everyone is a townread at this point. He's in the tier of "could be scum playing a strong game but not worth looking at", just below the above tier of "I'd really only consider these slots at LYLO"

Smocaine - it's not at all pertinent to me being a lynch? I'm trying to both get a better read on Aninien, push him towards looking at people I'm looking at, and generate useful dialogue. I think it's more likely the third scum bussed than counterwagoned here so I don't like him ruling it out. Has absolutely nothing to do with me being lynched.

[Smocaine]

Smocaine

.
Can you take a look at my post about ghostlin? (Or have you read it yet?) Please, tell me, do you still think GuiltyLion is scummier?
Yes or No?

I read it just now and have no clue what you guys are talking about aside from the fact that you hammered(?) mastina. I only know one thing, and that is LYNCH GL.

My chesskid programmed responses to your other post about me is as follows:
1. lynch GL
2. LYNCH GL
3. gl lynch

[GuiltyLion]

@GuiltyLion...what makes you group me into potentially bussing Mastina? What makes you think my vote was out of "inevitably happening"? After only two votes on Mastina, I said I was good with her lynch, and both Creature and BigYoshi voted pretty quickly and consecutively after that. With no momentum for a lynch, as a motherfuckingreplacement, I had no reason to vote there yet. I would very much disagree that the three of us, as the votes shook out, have any advantage of placing them as we did.

If anything, I think it's more likely that Srceenplay and Mastina counter voted and Srceenplay practically voteparked/tunneled Mastina all game. This could easily be scum placing a "safe vote" before a lynch was inevitable, and lacked a valid reason to prevent it from happening to hop off later. I DO NOT THINK THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED BUT FOR PERSPECTIVE'S SAKE.

it's mostly wagon position honestly. There was a swing towards my lynch and then a pendulum turbo swing back to Mastina. Obviously mostly town drove that but I could see you as scum hopping on, especially so you could make this exact post. "scum!me doesn't have an advantage of bussing my partner there" isn't really a defense I can agree with because if I agree with it then it did in fact give scum!you an advantage.

I also agree with the perspective in your second paragraph, I'm not ignoring that possibility. Why'd you bring it up - did you think that possibility would make me decrease my perception of the odds of scum!singer bussing?

[GuiltyLion]

still catching up, I don't think Ghostlin is scum but it looks like there's a lot of people scumreading him (page 126) so I'm also fine with giving him the Venge

elect: Ghostlin

[Smocaine]

still catching up, I don't think Ghostlin is scum but it looks like there's a lot of people scumreading him (page 126) so I'm also fine with giving him the Venge

elect: Ghostlin

[GuiltyLion]

GL, how likely would you have been to take a scum role?

don't really feel like answering this is worth all the tiptoeing I'd have to do about ongoing games. If people say I'm the most likely to take a scum role PM on my team as a reason to lynch me then IMO you should evaluate that claim yourself without me arguing about it. my flip will be a better data point then anything I say while alive anyway

[GuiltyLion]

Now, let's see GuiltyLion.

Spoiler:

1066 – Looks like a big null on both RC and Mastina.

1515 – He votes for Chesskid, RC is harder, Mastina is softer townread in his readlist, without any more content. (I wonder why I ended up at the list as softer town. He had been voting for me earlier and said nothing about the change. Meanwhile, my wagon died out...)

In 1802 he doesn't believe the Elli-tell.

2089 is worth reading for everyone. Especially the part where he's calculating how many votes Mastina could get. 2091 is weird, too.

2636 is a kind of defence on Mastina.

By 2661 both RC and Mastina have been moved to his scum-list. I wonder, why...

In 2946 he tells he will hammer Mastina later. It never happened. (That may be a null, because I did so.)

Keep in mind that he had NO direct interaction with Mastina.

More interaction with RadiantCowbells, remember, RC moved somehow from his townlist to his scumlist. (Maybe around 2639 there was a change on RC???)

2089 may be an attempt on suggesting Reckoner picking another target than RC! 2102 is similar in many ways.

I don't know whether 2648 is genuine. If they have met in-game before, it might not be.


Also, as I said, I didn't like his 3086. Besides, I think he was trying to widen our lynch pool instead of narrowing it.

TL;DR – I can imagine him as the third scum. His interactions and attitude towards Mastina and RC are not as scummy as Ghostlin's, but I can find scummy things there too.

there was definitely a lot of read changes and re-evaluation going on under the hood in my ISO which I didn't lay out in thread, I'm happy to explain them if you want to ask me further questions about them. I will say my read on RC nosedived as soon as he started pushing me as a counterwagon to Mastina, I got a lot of the same vibes I got in Word Sneak 2 where scum!RC (Halos & Horns hydra) death tunneled me.

and I'm not trying to widen the lynch pool - I'm trying to take S_S/Ghostlin/BYF out of the lynchpool and replace them with singer I guess, mainly. You were trying to say anyone who voted Mastina is probably not scum and that's just kinda the exact opposite of how I feel here.

[singersigner]

so they don't get accidentally killed since a venge kill is the only thing they can't control...

According to the Setup there may be some PR-s around. Those might mean some more threat, I guess.
Also, we can decide whom the Vengeful should target if they happen to get Nightkilled. Not obeying could be an auto-lynch. (But that doesn't mean much, they get lynched most probably on Day3 anyway.) Point me out if my train of thoughts is flawed.

There's a pretty major flaw in auto-lynching the

night-killed

vengeful if they don't shoot our target...

I know you said a bunch of other stuff and there's been a lot of other posts but I won't have the time to flush it out until tomorrow...I just really needed to comment on this point in particular, because, well...you know...well I hope you know by now...

[GuiltyLion]

Mathdino suggested an alternative idea for today

what if we give the venge to someone we think is scum, lynch them today, and have them agree to kill RC?
- if we lynch scum, they shoot someone else but we autowin D3 with RC lynch
- if we lynch town, they kill RC and we get more associatives/information today than just kinda spinning wheels until tomorrow
- this also prevents the worst case scenario of town lynched and using venge on another town D3.

so we'd be guaranteed to go to odds with one scum down

thoughts?

elect: singersigner

[Creature]

Sounds fair.

[Something_Smart]

there was definitely a lot of read changes and re-evaluation going on under the hood in my ISO which I didn't lay out in thread, I'm happy to explain them if you want to ask me further questions about them. I will say my read on RC nosedived as soon as he started pushing me as a counterwagon to Mastina, I got a lot of the same vibes I got in Word Sneak 2 where scum!RC (Halos & Horns hydra) death tunneled me.

If you remember that game you should have me as locktown, lol.

[Smocaine]

Mathdino suggested an alternative idea for today

what if we give the venge to someone we think is scum, lynch them today, and have them agree to kill RC?
- if we lynch scum, they shoot someone else but we autowin D3 with RC lynch
- if we lynch town, they kill RC and we get more associatives/information today than just kinda spinning wheels until tomorrow
- this also prevents the worst case scenario of town lynched and using venge on another town D3.

so we'd be guaranteed to go to odds with one scum down

thoughts?

elect: singersigner

I'd rather give rc the venge and lynch you today holy fuck. This reversal of the order of operations doesn't matter in the slightest.

[Smocaine]

Sounds fair.

PEMDAS MOTHERFUCK

[RadiantCowbells]

Mathdino suggested an alternative idea for today

what if we give the venge to someone we think is scum, lynch them today, and have them agree to kill RC?
- if we lynch scum, they shoot someone else but we autowin D3 with RC lynch
- if we lynch town, they kill RC and we get more associatives/information today than just kinda spinning wheels until tomorrow
- this also prevents the worst case scenario of town lynched and using venge on another town D3.

so we'd be guaranteed to go to odds with one scum down

thoughts?

elect: singersigner

I'd rather give rc the venge and lynch you today holy fuck. This reversal of the order of operations doesn't matter in the slightest.

YOU HEARD HIM BOYS

GIVE THE MAN HIS GUN

[Smocaine]

RCutie acknowledged me

[Smocaine]

rc pass this on to someone for me

[Smocaine]

boo titus, boo

[RadiantCowbells]

I happen to have a great deal of appreciation for Titus as both a player and a person so I'm not likely to do that.

[beeboy]

Vonflare replaces Tchill13

[Smocaine]

I just want out of this game, replace me pls ):