Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[Arakorn]

Hello, I'm Arakorn and I'll be replacing McStab. As there's already 11 pages here I really don't feel like thoroughly reading through them all, so could someone just quickly sum up what actions have been taken so far? (Like, which day and who were lynched and who night killed etc?)

Or, we haven't started yet? There's nothing in the first post at least...

[Arakorn]

OK, I've decided not to trust you guys.

[Arakorn]

[quote="Jenter Brolincani"]
Mod Vote Count:
Selande (1): Arakorn
/quote]

Just noticed this,

Unvote

.

[Arakorn]

Sorry guys, but I didn't remember that I will be away for a week or two, however I will be coming back before the deadline. (7.1 as latest).

[Arakorn]

I'm going to Sweden, will be back on Friday.

[Arakorn]

Isn't the deadline today? Don't think we will be able to make a "top3" today... I really have no larger suspicions, as there has been so little analysis so far (on my part too, but those from TWC will know that I usually dont' do it either! )

[Arakorn]

3- Arakorn?- This guy is new, so I don't know what to make of him, but he hasn't done much to be helpful. My best guess is that this is a newbie thrown into a scum position and doesn't know what to do. This is just a guess. If I'm wrong, Arakorn, you may want to start participating to prove it to me and the others.

Sorry, I'm having like 5 schoolprojects that needs to be completed within a week, but I will read through every post and try to contribute. (I am usually quite quiet, which makes me stand out here in a Mafia-dedicated community. ) Anyway, I still have no suspects at this moment...

[Arakorn]

No, I just read on from where it had started (all players had joined).

No one stood out in particular, but at this point I'm far too busy with schoolwork to read through the whole thread in deep, maybe in a week I'd be able to do it.

[Arakorn]

I will wagon whomever needs to be wagonned to lynch. At this point, I just want this fucking game to go to night so that something will happen.

Enough said.

Vote: Gorckat

Note to all: I am still here, it's just that until wednesday next week, I can't be that active, alot of goddamn schoolwork.

Tally:

soupfly (3) - Archaist, SirWario, gorckat
Gorckat (2) – Tarhalindur, Arakorn
Guardian (1) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien
neko2086 (1) - soupfly
Sikario8 (1) - neko2086
SirWario (1) - Guardian
Arakorn (1) - MeMe

not voting (2) - Gorgon, Rikimaru

[Arakorn]

So the only reason you voted for me is because I didn't nominate a candidate for lynch (my most suspicious person)? BTW, I just quickly read throught the thread from the point the game actually started, so I missed quite a few pages.

[Arakorn]

I think it was something under 10, I was reading posts where people said "so should we start now?". (It struck me how the game could have been several pages of spam though...)

Unvote

[Arakorn]

Yes, after Tuesday/Wednesday I will have more time again. For the rest of this weekend though, until late Sunday, I will be away, ie I don't even have access to internet. But I promise that I will read whatever new posts has been made by then.

And just a note regarding my newbieness, I've been involved in a couple of games, the last one was me being one of 3 mafia's and not a single mafia was killed in that game. It is true that my skills can be considered noobiness, but I do have experiences from playing these games. Ask the mod or Pra though, been playing with them. (I am known for not being so contributive though...)

[Arakorn]

After last night, I'm pretty damn sure that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon.

Just to be clear, do you mean that both who voted for me are scum?

[Arakorn]

Well, basically as I said I didn't think anyone was suspicious enough to motivate a vote for me, secondly, I thought it was going to get me suspicious. And with results at hand, it wouldn't have helped (lynched with 4, secondary candidates at 2).

Is it an unwritten rule here (Mafiascum-forums) that everyone should vote? Because in my past games, there has always been several who hasn't voted. (Partially because of inactivity, but even active players have decided not to vote).

[Arakorn]

I also think it's worth to give this a shot and lynch Meme, at least we'll get a confirmation on his role next morning... That is unless someone has protective powers to protect Tar.

Vote: MeMe

Tally:

MeMe: (3) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn)

[Arakorn]

Oh and with 10 players left, 6 to lynch. We've got half, maybe we should discuss this a wee bit more before we go off lynching? At least we should hear MeMe, but having a base of votes could be good...

[Arakorn]

So you want (assuming Tar is right) expose another powerful townie for nightkill? My opinion is (still) that we lynch MeMe today, and if he isn't scum, we lynch Tar next time instead.

[Arakorn]

Uhm, can you vote for yourself? In that case we have 5 votes for MeMe, otherwise:
Tally:

MeMe: (4) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, mikeburnfire)

[Arakorn]

Well yes but self votes don't count, or do they? Damn, must've missed Neko's vote...

[Arakorn]

mikeburnfire and Arakorn, by a quick skim, are at the top of my list. Srakorn was really worried about MeMe's self-vote counting, and mike didn't make any case on Tar before flipping on MeMe.

I like a

vote: Arakorn

right now.

I wouldn't say that I was "really worried", I just wanted to be sure that it was a real lynch, I've been involved in one game where 7 votes were needed for a lynch and then we thought we reached seven, but we had only 6 (I knew about this, but couldn't post before it). After having read about the 7th vote claim the target then started "crying", and everyone unvoted because they thought that if he was scum and had gotten the necessary votes, he would have admitted.

Don't remember if that guy turned out to be scum in the end, but I feel he had a special role...

Anyway, that's not the point, my point is that I just wanted to ensure that the necessary votes have been collected, and my previous experience says that self votes are not allowed.

BTW, I believe Soupfly.

[Arakorn]

I still don't understand how me checking the rules is scummy? I mean if she already confessed, why - if I were scum - would I try to keep defending her???

[Arakorn]

Hold on, how do we know Neko is town? Otherwise I'm fine with Soupfly's idea.

[Arakorn]

I think we should kill Javert. If he is scum, then he will never forget the town that destroyed him and his scumbuddies in a perfect volley of lynches. If he is town, then he will never forget the first game in which he got lynched as town. Either way this will be an epic game for him.

Is that supposed to be a joke. Because it is funny, but scummy. (Hey, a rhyme!)

Seriously though, I wouldn't put too much confidence in the inventions as their names are pretty vague and so it is quite hard to guess their real effect. I'm still all for Tar deciding on who to lynch.

[Arakorn]

I don't think soupfly should use his rocket tonight. He could easily do so tomorrow night, if the remaining scum is still alive by then.

And if he's dead by then...?

[Arakorn]

Vote: gorgon

Following Tar's lead..

Anyone know the tally?

[Arakorn]

Did they know they were "lovers"? Shit.

FoS: Arakorn

and

Javert

I think our (hopefully) last scum is one of them.

Oh, why is that?
Just the same reasons Soup stated? Then that makes your post pretty useless

I am too 99% sure that either Javert or Gorckat is scum, myself I'm just a regular townie.
Gonna try to read a bit back in this thread, see what I can find from Gorckat's and Javert's posts...

[Arakorn]

Arakorn made a less-than-impressive entrance into the game, and has contributed very little. In his last post, he got defensive and also decided to share with us that he's a townie, neither of which is helpful.

Well none of those lines makes me scum either. About saying I'm town, it wasn't entirely to deny that I'm not a doctor, although it was partly. I guess I just wanted to say that I had no special role, and well, also to tell you that I'm not scum...

[Arakorn]

Would MeMe have voted for me, along with another scum (can't remember the name) if I was also scum?

[Arakorn]

To add to that, I'm 99% sure that we should lynch Javert or Gorckat, but of course you others are only 66.

Of those two, I'd rather lynch Gorkcat, but I have no particulare evidence against him, just felt that he was a bit suspicious the previous day.

[Arakorn]

Yes, still here.

Should probably announce that Ill leave this Sunday and will get back (late) the next Sunday.

[Arakorn]

No, no evidence, and considering that amount of post (since the last time I posted) I personally wouldn't be surprised of that...

[Arakorn]

Again, why would Neko vote for me if we both were scum???

[Arakorn]

Vote:Gorckat

Seems like there is nothing I can do to stop a lynch on me, but when it's revealed that I am town you might want to take my vote into consideration. But just consideration, as I'm not sure at all who (of gorckat and Neko) are scum..

And yes, I meant Meme and not Neko earlier.

[Arakorn]

Less than I have of Gorckat to be honest. Why??

[Arakorn]

Calling a 50% suspicion to a 60-70& suspicion is a major swing?

[Arakorn]

Bllaaargh, never play Mafia with a hangover!

I meant Neko, not Javert...

[Arakorn]

Arakorn, do you mean that you've always suspected me and not Javert? Maybe to alleviate confusion, could you point out which posts you mistook me for Javert or vice versa?

Just the ones on this page (page 24 with 20 posts per page I believe).

My suspicious-list:

1. Gorckat
2. Neko
3. Javert

[Arakorn]

Arakorn- do us a favor- quote and correct all the posts where you mixed up neko and Javert. I'm not understanding what mistakes you made.

Sure.

Post number 576: (In response to Gorckat's "Arakorn- you have no suspicion of Javert?")

Less than I have of Gorckat to be honest. Why??

And then post 578:

Calling a 50% suspicion to a 60-70& suspicion is a major swing?

In both those posts I thought you were talking about Neko and not Javert, don't ask me why.

Votecount;

Arakorn (2) soupfly, gorckat
gorckat (1) arakorn


Not voting; The rest of you

[Arakorn]

I have personally not mixed up any names. I just read wrong or misunderstood, don't ask me how, when you (Gorckat) asked me about Javert. I thought you meant Neko.

[Arakorn]

Oh, didn't remember that. Well certainly my view has changed since that, I'll try to read back to see why.

[Arakorn]

Right let's see then...
(Sorry lost interest as it was a bit quiet and that's why I didnt check until now.

1.)

Arakorn, have you 'thoroughly' read the game by now?

To be honest, no. Not the part in the beginning.

2.)

You claimed at one point that the game 'could have been several pages of spam'. Do you find spam easier to read through, or posts of substance?

-->

a.

If you answer 'spam', then the game should have been fairly easy to read through when you replaced on the top of Page 11. Why then did you appear to avoid reading the game for so long?

-->

b.

If you answer substantive posts, then why have you not commented on those posts which are actually substantive? I would very much like your commentary on the gorckat-Javert discussion on the last few pages.

If by "posts of substance" you mean posts like your analysis, then I'm not sure; both are equally hard. While spam are very annoying, huge analysises can be hard to read (maybe for someone with English not as his/her's first language).
As to why I didn't respond to the analysises, it was probably because I felt that I wouldn't have anything that would be considered good and informative posting, and I've experienced games in which posts like that, posts that contain no real information, are considered scummy.

3.)

After returning from Christmas break, you enter the game claiming to think that day was the deadline day. If this is true, why weren't you compelled to read the game and vote as soon as possible? Deadlines, in my experience, tend to

spur

activity.

To my knowledge, deadlines are good for the scum, who wish to get the day over ASAP. Why would I vote for someone if I had no suspicions, at least not enough to warrant a vote for someone?
I really don't remember much from this time though, it is 3 months ago, but was the deadline moved a week further? That's the only reason I can think of as the reason why I thought it was the deadline...

4.)

Why did you vote for gorckat near deadline only to unvote him soon thereafter?

I voted for him because of his scummy post, as seen in

my

post. Wanted to pressurise him, then later unvoted. I realise now it was stupid of me not to motivate this unvote.

5.)

Would you have voted for MeMe if Tarhalindur had not claimed? Would you have voted Tarhalindur if he had 'refused' to claim? Try to answer honestly, and with reasoning.

No, I thought his claim had enough proof. (BTW it would have helped had you linked to Tar's posts, "claims", too...)

6.)

Why did you claim that you wanted the town to

wait

to lynch MeMe while you were still

voting

for her? Do you agree that if that was your intention, you would have been better off

holding off

voting for MeMe?

I held my vote there as a pressure vote. Don't have anything more to say to my defense here.
Would a scum have lynched his scum-mate, or wouldn't the scum after having urged for more discussion actually unvote too? This would avoid suspicion very much.

7.)

I would also like you to clarify, once and for all, exactly who your suspects are, and in what order. You switched from the beginning of Day Four from {gorckat and Javert} to {gorckat and neko2086}, and I would like to make sure this is – in fact – what you are intending to do. Once you have clarified, I would like reasoning as for why this is where you are placing us, and what caused you into making this switch.

My top suspect remains Gorckat. Second comes Neko, then Javert, but the difference between these is minimal.

[Arakorn]

Yeh I'm here, but I'm seriously beginning to lose interest. I just don't want to put as much time into these games as you guys, and I am not nearly as skilled as you.

Let me ask my same question in a different way. If you thought that day was the deadline day, why were you not spurred to read the game to

find out

who you were most suspicious of so that you could give a warranted vote?

Since it was a deadline, a player would have gotten killed with or without my vote. I'd rather trust in your votes, (the more experienced player's) than in my own "feelings".

If Tarhalindur never claimed his role at all or that he had an investigation (but instead just went after MeMe), would you have voted MeMe alongside with him? Or would have done something else?

(You mean if I wouldn't have known he had a special role?)
Probably not, as I would have had significantly less evidence against MeMe.

Response: In my experience, if a townsperson wants more discussion, they should take away the avenues for

stopping

discussion (which means they should unvote somebody, especially if they are anywhere close to being lynched).

Here is an example of what I am getting at from another game (which is pretty famous and everybody on the site should read it, in my humble opinions): Post #157 from Axelrod-scum in Worst Role Evar Mafia. He claims he does

not

want a player lynched while putting them at Lynch-1, and then that player is lynched anyways immediately afterwards (by a townsperson, no less). If Axelrod had

really

not wanted that player lynched yet, he would not have

voted

for him – as you may notice, he actually

did

want that player lynched. His actions and his words were contradicting each other.

As it is, scum had a vested interest in making Day Two in

this

game go as fast as possible; the sooner MeMe was lynched, the less information the town could actually get from the lynch; this is an excellent reason for scum to (for example) claim they do not want the day to end yet while keeping their vote on MeMe (in hopes she actually is lynched all the sooner). This is why I am poking you about this subject.

I see now. Well, I guess I did wrong then... (ehm, was there a question somewhere...?)

Please

go into detail. The

point

of me asking you questions is because

I do not know your alignment, and I am trying to figure that out

. The longer your response, the more likely I am to judge correctly. Point to posts you don't like (or do like), make a case, tell me where you get particular vibes: do whatever you need to do so that I can see you have

some

reasoning behind why you are placing players where they are on your suspicions list.

Well, I have throughout some of Gorckat's posts "sensed" some offensiveness against me, as well as something that I consider scummy. No examples currently...

My "problem" with neko is how easily he got away. (Known townies: Neko).
I later then asked why he was so certainly a townie, and Soup replied that he had investigated him. (the Forged Money-printer, which really had an unclear function).

[Arakorn]

I would guess not, given I still haven't provided any valid reasons for my suspicions.
Well go ahead, sacrifice me, I aint of much use anyway. And I can get out of this troubling game...

[Arakorn]

I think this is the current tally...

Javert (1) gorckat
Arakorn (1) soupfly
gorckat (1) arakorn

[Arakorn]

I will be away 'til Monday, but might be able to check in on Saturday. (Unlikely though)

[Arakorn]

Shit. Well, I guess I'm going to die now but I am town. I'll go against my instinct and vote Javert as I believe he has played very well and it could be masked as a scum. Not that my vote matters anyway, the town is doomed now.

(I won't vote yet though, there should be at least some discussion).

[Arakorn]

Very well then.

Vote: Javert

Neko, you decide the game. Either Neko is scum and we (Javert and me) have gifted the game to them or then Javert is scum and Neko will (probably) vote me to give the scums the win.

[Arakorn]

To me it seems pretty clear now that Javert is mafia, because if Neko was mafia he would've finished the game already. Thus I won't withdraw my vote. (And to Neko it is obvious that either Javert or me is scum.)

Neko, the reason I voted for Javert was that had you been scum it would have made no difference who I would vote for, you could easily enter the game and "seal the deal". That is unless you want to play around but I find it highly unlikely as you would have a certain win in your hands. If you would be scum and not vote yet then if Javert and I would vote you you would lose.

Yesterday (IRL) when I posted I still thought that Neko was scum, but because Javert already voted for me the only chance of survival I had was to vote Javert and hope that Neko did the same, which has kinda come true, at least Neko didn't vote for me (again, giving me reason to believe that Javert is scum).

So we're at a point then when Neko needs to decide who to vote for. Take your time...

Just want to admit that all the suspicion Javert has for me is valid. I just hope that Javert's decision to vote for me straight away will turn Neko over to my side.

[Arakorn]

Yes. You were always a bigger suspect to me than Javert, mainly because of Javert's analysises and such that were supposed to help the town. But because you didn't vote for either of us, I am almost 100% certain that you aren't scum after all, thus it must either Javert or me.

[Arakorn]

Great. That's it then

[Arakorn]

Congrats on your play Javert, you were very good.