Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[Elmo]

The boundary between 24 hour blocks is 3am GMT. (You can check what the time in GMT is here, if needed.) We went into deadline starting at Wed Mar 19, 2008 3 am. I'm just going to use letters for the blocks, which so far are:

Block A: Wed 19th 3:00 am - Thurs 20th 3am
Block B: Thurs 20th 3am - Fri 21st 3am

We're now in block B. The first post is in this block B was at March 20th 4:28 am, which was my post 259. I posted zomg post something in post 261, at March 20 11:51 pm, which is a little over 3 hours until deadline. Since then, a bunch of people have posted, such that me, Skruffs, Capricious, Zindaras, Y, and eldarad have posted in Block B, so we're okay for now. But for example Andy hasn't posted in this 24 hour block, no; Ether's post 250 concerned Block A, and was posted at March 19th 2:25 pm.

The next block will be what I'll call block C, which is Fri 21st 3am - Sat 22nd 3am.

Maybe that makes it clearer? I am still somewhat scared by the prospect of a no lynch.

[hasdgfas]

No lynch would definitely be bad, but the only person I'd be happy lynching is Capricious because he hasn't really contributed as much as I think he's capable of.

[Mizzy]

Wow, nice posting guys! *cheers*

Okay, anyway, it doesn't look like I have anything more to respond to but I might have missed something. Does anyone have any unanswered questions for me?

[Ether]

3 Capricious (eldarad, hasdgfas, Capricious)
2 Andycyca (Elmo, Zindaras)
2 Skruffs (Y, Mizzy)
1 Mizzy (Skruffs)
1 Rotten Snitch (Sir Tornado)

2 Unvote (Andycyca, Rotten Snitch)

11 alive; 6 to lynch.

8/6 - Elmo, Skruffs, Capricious, Zindaras, Y, eldarad,

hasdgfas, Mizzy

1 hour and 0 minutes until the next block.

[Skruffs]

Unvote, Vote Andycaca

[Elmo]

No lynch would definitely be bad, but the only person I'd be happy lynching is Capricious because he hasn't really contributed as much as I think he's capable of.

What makes you think that? That is a weak, weak reason for a vote, no? Have you played with him before?

[Andycyca]

I still don't see a real case against me. Capri votes himself and then points at me (for no reason, whatsoever...

again

)

I mean, if you really think I'm that scummy, you should at least put your vote where your mouth is.

[Y]

I played with Capricious once, and if I rely on that game, his logic isn't conventional (If he actually posts big, detailed posts). We were mafia together on that game and he was trying to bus me (Which got him killed), so I'm not sure how representative it is as an example of his style.

[Mizzy]

It really feels like our accusations/focus are/is all over the place and we're having a lot of trouble agreeing on anything. This is just my opinion, but I do think we need to work together instead of having everyone kind of pointing fingers in different directions.

Several people have said they see certain folks as obvtown...but I don't see a lot of explanation as to why, and that makes me kind of suspicious. That feels more like townhunting than scumhunting, but again, just my opinion and I could be incorrect.

hasdgfas

: I can certainly see why you'd think that he can contribute more than he is/has, but can I ask why that makes you feel okay with lynching him? Seems like a bit of a cop-out lynch. Granted, any lynch is better than no-lynch, but I would seriously prefer going for a lynch and not a mis-lynch. Do you feel Capricious is scum? If not, why are you willing to lynch someone you don't think is scum?

I am still highly suspicious of Skruffs and Rotten Snitch...the dynamic between the two of them is not something I have seen before and it makes me very, very wary of both of them. The Snitch <--> Skruffs dynamic could be a form of bussing. I'll leave my vote where it is until someone tells me WHY Skruffs is obvtown, because honestly, I don't see it. He does a LOT of role speculation and it feels a lot like rolefishing to me.

Capricious also pings my scumdar a great deal because he hasn't contributed a lot lately and is hiding behind other people to fight his battles. He also used the "I'm stoopid" reason for not contributing, which I ALSO don't like. I realize anti-town != scum, but damn, he sure doesn't help us much.

I guess my focus is on those three. I'm willing to listen to other cases, though.

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas

: I can certainly see why you'd think that he can contribute more than he is/has, but can I ask why that makes you feel okay with lynching him? Seems like a bit of a cop-out lynch. Granted, any lynch is better than no-lynch, but I would seriously prefer going for a lynch and not a mis-lynch. Do you feel Capricious is scum? If not, why are you willing to lynch someone you don't think is scum?

I'm okay with lynching him because from his posts, what I've gathered is that he tries to say as little as possible while seeming to contribute. Let me pull out some examples:

Sir Tornado is in this game?

I am confident RS and Mizzy are town

Skruffs is also solid town

hi

Then there are a bunch of posts that are, to me, full of crap:

Elmo is a good town for defending someone (me) for their vague comment:
"feel is the best and only basis there is" in spite of some lumped together turtles.

Someone is

town

for defending someone else's vague/strange comment?

Unvote, Vote: Capricious

need a lynch, but come to your senses and lynch Andycyca day 2

A self-vote in addition to saying we should lynch Andy day 2, but he doesn't give any reasoning.

"feel", what more is there?

"feel" is the best and only basis there is.

This just makes no sense at all. Sounds like a scum cop-out to giving reasons to me.



So basically: Yes, I feel he's scum. He's been pushing an andycyca lynch without explaining why andy is scum. (A relatively common scum tactic from what I've seen, argument through repetition). Many of his posts have been extremely contentless when he could easily have contributed more in many of his posts. When he does contribute, his logic seems more like scumlogic than townlogic.

vote: Capricious

[Mizzy]

So basically: Yes, I feel he's scum. He's been pushing an andycyca lynch without explaining why andy is scum. (A relatively common scum tactic from what I've seen, argument through repetition). Many of his posts have been extremely contentless when he could easily have contributed more in many of his posts. When he does contribute, his logic seems more like scumlogic than townlogic.

Okay, now that I can understand and I feel a lot better about you now. Your post of "I'd be good with a Caprilynch" had kind pinged my scumdar, which is why I asked about it, but now I can see exactly where you are coming from.

Capricious:

Would you mind responding (in more than 2 sentences, please) to the case against you? I want to see your side of it.

[Mizzy]

Oh, and hasdgfas, I think you were already voting for Capri.

[eldarad]

Why do you like Capricious? What posts, specifically, do you like?

This looks really scummy to me. Why are you trying to set up Day 2 already? Why criticise the Capri wagon if you're willing to lynch if pushed?

Elmo, could you answer this please.

It really feels like our accusations/focus are/is all over the place and we're having a lot of trouble agreeing on anything. This is just my opinion, but I do think we need to work together instead of having everyone kind of pointing fingers in different directions.

Why do you think this is a bad thing? I'd have thought that having multiple leads was a good thing for the town.

Several people have said they see certain folks as obvtown...but I don't see a lot of explanation as to why, and that makes me kind of suspicious. That feels more like townhunting than scumhunting, but again, just my opinion and I could be incorrect.

I don't really have a problem with townhunting as a process of elimination. My problem here though is that the townhunting has been really superficial, almost like it's an excuse not to pursue someone any further.

[hasdgfas]

Oh, and hasdgfas, I think you were already voting for Capri.

haha, whoops, misread the previous VC

[Mizzy]

Why do you think this is a bad thing? I'd have thought that having multiple leads was a good thing for the town.

It can be, yes, but in this game's case, it feels like there's no reason to be pointing in some directions other than to just point (Andy and Zin are good examples of that in my eyes) and when someone says NOT to point at a specific person (I think people have called Skruffs, myself and Capri townies for sure) they fail to say

why

. It seems to lack the substance that would help town in most cases here.

[Skruffs]

So wait, mizzy:
You go out of your way to deflect or criticize lines of talk that involve zindaras not being town, and then to the exact opposite in regards to me and rotten snitch?

You have made it abundantly clear (to me) that you have a vested interest in protecting zindaras, over other players. Why?

[Y]

Skruffs, I can't see the connection you're doing there. Care to explain?

[Mizzy]

So wait, mizzy:
You go out of your way to deflect or criticize lines of talk that involve zindaras not being town, and then to the exact opposite in regards to me and rotten snitch?

You have made it abundantly clear (to me) that you have a vested interest in protecting zindaras, over other players. Why?

You know, Skruffs, you don't get to make things up. You also don't get to selectively drop out parts of my posts.

Firstly, I haven't gone out of why way to do anything (you want to accuse me, then show some proof.) In my opinion, the cases against Andy AND Zin are empty. No one has shown anything to change that since I last said so even though I have asked.

Secondly, I didn't mention Snitch in that last post at all.

What is your obsession with constantly pairing the two of you up?

My point is that

no matter who

you accuse of being scum or exonerate as being town, you need to say WHY or your words can only be ignored at best and scrutinized as being scummy at worst.

Oh, and you have yet to provide specific posts and quotes from me that show I do what you accuse me of doing. I suggest you do it or shut up.

[Capricious]

pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concluders

[Mizzy]

pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concluders

That epiphany of yours a) doesn't seem to be directed at anyone, b) is not helpful and c) shows that

you're

scummy, if anything.

Can't you do any better than that?

[eldarad]

pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concluders

Are you actually playing this game?
It's just that you haven't posted any content yet...

[hasdgfas]

pro-town people are creators, scum play tag-along/ are concluders

But you're not creating

anything.

You're the one tagging along. Your big comment here just says that you're admitting to be scum.

[Capricious]

Sure, why not... Why do you think any one would even think about suspecting you due to Capricious' post, when he didn't even mention your name, nor the fact that some one posted something similar to his post already?

It's happened to me before that I post some sort of question or logic or possibility or what-have-you and someone who's been in the limelight in a not-so-good way has used that post of mine to divert attention off of themselves and onto me.

I suppose I wouldn't be so bothered about his "Let's discuss this" if he had actually discussed it soon after without prompting. It came off to me as
insincere.

Like when?

Seriously, I don't see where Capri connects you, and the divergence of opinions between Capri and Y looks like distancing as much as the Capri/Cow pair.

However, arriving to a NoLynch could, in fact, help scum in more than one way by moving the game to Night. Now that many players are scanning each other, an auto-night ends discussion, which is good for scum.

@Elmo: About 123: I meant that both {Capri, Y} and {Capri, cow} were discussing against each other and the supposed case on {Capri, Y} being distancing scumbuddies was as good as {Capri, cow} being exactly the same. In other words, the supposed distancing was as good for one pair or the other and was just based on the fact that their opinions weren't the same.

My reasons for voting RS have been discussed and the reason he isn't on my "obv protown list" is because I don't know anything about anyone's alignments.
----------------------------

Andy's unvote worked just fine, I see. And I don't like the wagon on him, by the way...

it's all fluff and no nutter.

Exactly my thoughts
----------------------------

...AND you can't even spell my name right? It's 5 letters! ><

Don't worry, it's common for him to mistype

My username is spelled with 2 "y" istead of 3 "a"

But it's a lot easier for you to type Andy

I'm no longer sure of Andycyca being scum, primarily because of these two posts, as he did create something with these posts. His creations don't have to be correct, they just have to be debatable and can be scrutinized by the town-as evidenced by people calling Andy out for them.

mod

- can you prod Capricious please.

Also, a vote count would be quite nice too...

I am here, it is nice to know that you keep me in your heart when there are others who have posted less than me.

Unvote, Vote: Andycyca

I'm sure he "kept you in his heart" because there's a wagon on you...

Not many scum keep quiet about the subject when people vote them

[Capricious]

Elmo is a good town for defending someone (me) for their vague comment:
"feel is the best and only basis there is" in spite of some lumped together turtles.

Someone is town for defending someone else's vague/strange comment?

This is correct, he voiced his opinion in a position where he could've very well come under fire from a decent portion of the players for stating his opinion.

[Rotten Snitch]

I still want to know about Sir T. Where ya at buddy? I want to know what you thought was scummy considering you jumped on to try to keep the wagon on me going and used this as your reason. (edited to just have my issues)

I think RS is pretty scummy at the moment. I especially don't like his responses.

Before the RS wagon started, I was leaning towards a Capricious/Mizzy scum. Not sure about Mizzy anymore since I agree with her about RS.

Still, happy with my vote.

Er... Wait. Not happy with my vote.

vote RS

I have already asked you what you thought back in post 242 so I'm asking again.