Mini 574: Portal Mafia: HUGE SUCCESS

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Machiavellian-Mafia's posting bothers me a bit; he's pushing the fourth-vote-is-scum-and-everything-now-is-purposeful thing too much. But I'll save some complaints until he gets back.

I think M-M is starting to overdo the 4th vote is scummy thing. I can see him using it as a way to kick things off even if I don't agree with it, but he hasn't talked about anything else. And again, unless there's any practical chance whatsoever of it leading to a speedlynch, I don't see how a 4th vote on a wagon made of random votes can be a danger.

Relative to everything else that had happened in the game at the time, and especially because there is a 14-day deadline, that 4th vote by flameaxe was what I found to be scummiest and thus I went after the hardest. Now on top of that, flameaxe continues to post mostly fluff and be unhelpful in scumhunting, so I still like my flameaxe vote.

My current positions on all players:

Flameaxe - Explained above, still like my vote

Your Worst Nightmare - Leaning slightly protown with adequate defenses against accusations

Sir Tornado - Neutral, insufficient posts to get a read

Patrick - Most protown, very helpful in scumhunting and thorough reasoning.

populartajo - Neutral, none of his posts stood out as scummy or protown

Gorrad – Suspicious, seemed like he tried extensively to twist YWN’s posts to make him an LAL lynch target.

FoS: Gorrad

Miztef – Protown, contributed sufficient analysis on game situations and scumhunting

The Jester - Neutral, insufficient posts to get a read

Akonas - Leaning slightly protown with helpful contributions in recent posts.

Incognito - Protown, contributed sufficient analysis on game situations and scumhunting

scotmany12 - Leaning slightly protown with some good reasoning in most recent posts.

[Flameaxe]

Machiavellian-Mafia's posting bothers me a bit; he's pushing the fourth-vote-is-scum-and-everything-now-is-purposeful thing too much. But I'll save some complaints until he gets back.

I think M-M is starting to overdo the 4th vote is scummy thing. I can see him using it as a way to kick things off even if I don't agree with it, but he hasn't talked about anything else. And again, unless there's any practical chance whatsoever of it leading to a speedlynch, I don't see how a 4th vote on a wagon made of random votes can be a danger.

Relative to everything else that had happened in the game at the time, and especially because there is a 14-day deadline, that 4th vote by flameaxe was what I found to be scummiest and thus I went after the hardest. Now on top of that, flameaxe continues to post mostly fluff and be unhelpful in scumhunting, so I still like my flameaxe vote.

My current positions on all players:

Flameaxe - Explained above, still like my vote

Your Worst Nightmare - Leaning slightly protown with adequate defenses against accusations

Sir Tornado - Neutral, insufficient posts to get a read

Patrick - Most protown, very helpful in scumhunting and thorough reasoning.

populartajo - Neutral, none of his posts stood out as scummy or protown

Gorrad – Suspicious, seemed like he tried extensively to twist YWN’s posts to make him an LAL lynch target.

FoS: Gorrad

Miztef – Protown, contributed sufficient analysis on game situations and scumhunting

The Jester - Neutral, insufficient posts to get a read

Akonas - Leaning slightly protown with helpful contributions in recent posts.

Incognito - Protown, contributed sufficient analysis on game situations and scumhunting

scotmany12 - Leaning slightly protown with some good reasoning in most recent posts.

Sorry for attempting to prove a point. I wasn't aware that was impossible.

[Glork]

Vote Count:

Your Worst Nightmare 2 (Gorrad, Miztef)
Flameaxe 2 (Akonas, Machiavellian-Mafia)
Sir Tornado 1 (Incognito)
Machiavellian-Mafia 1 (scotmany12)
Gorrad 1 (Patrick)

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, Flameaxe, populartajo, Your Worst Nightmare, The Jester

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[Incognito]

I read over Patrick's case against Gorrad and found myself nodding along with his interpretation of events. I won't be moving my vote to Gorrad just yet but it does bother me that Gorrad set up things so simply as "Who lies? Scum lie. I could feel the lynch unfold." when things aren't always as clear-cut as the way he seemed to portray. It also bothers me that he hasn't bothered to comment on anything else since the YWN discussion died down dramatically despite the fact that other events have happened since that point.

@Incognito, to discern if my actions

now

are suspicious or not, you need to know how I've played in

past

games? Games that I've played with different roles, with different moods, together with different people, and with much more free time than I have today?...

Not your total actions, no. The meta would be used more to help me determine if your feelings that "L-3 is always bad" went across the board no matter what game you were playing in or if you were trying to make a big deal out of nothing earlier.

@The Jester:

Not to rush you or anything, but I'm guessing you'll be providing some sort of a wrap-up of your interpretation of events sometime soon?

[Gorrad]

Been playing Brawl, and have only skimmed the last bit. I'll try for a reread in the next day or so, but no promises. My schedule's mostly full till Sunday.

[Akonas]

[snip]
Sorry for attempting to prove a point. I wasn't aware that was impossible.

Explain.

[The Jester]

@Incognito: Jasi//Yes.

Just working on other things, and what not. I should have one up in a day or so...hmm hopefully.

[Incognito]

Been playing Brawl, and have only skimmed the last bit. I'll try for a reread in the next day or so, but no promises. My schedule's mostly full till Sunday.

Good try.

Unvote; Vote: Gorrad

[Sir Tornado]

Do you have reasons to doubt that Incognito? Activity in other games?

[Incognito]

Do you have reasons to doubt that Incognito? Activity in other games?

Yes and yes.

[Incognito]

You should join the wagon. This vote is good through his lynch.

[Gorrad]

Copied from V/LA:

Brawl. OMGWTFBBQAWESOME!

Distracted until Sunday. Expect daily reads but not much more.

[Miztef]

I'm going need some evidence to the contrary of Gorrad's statement, because I think it's very viable. (I have access to brawl myself, and would be playing all the time if it was actually mine, but alas, I'm playing on a friend's wii)

I'm not sure I like the YWN lynch anymore, but a Gorrad lynch definately hasn't caught my eye yet... I just don't see that much evidence against him.

[Miztef]

sorry for double post, I'm just gonna go over the Gorrad case:

1)

Here's my understanding of the alt business. I get the impression that in Post 75, and then in Post 99, Gorrad is saying that Nightmare lied, by contradicting himself over whether or not he's an alt, and that Gorrad is using that as a reason to be suspicious of Nightmare. I don't like this, because it seems pretty clear to me that in the second quote of post 75, Nightmare is joking around, and his response has confirmed that. I also don't like the way Gorrad is lurking to avoid answering my questions about it, in the context of this game which is speed mafia.

Unvote, Vote: Gorrad

First, I'd like to mention that I didn't think it was a joke right away, some people just aren't good at picking up those kind of things. Even with the joking, YWN's posts have been convoluted at best, I don't understand what he's saying about a lot of issues. Gorrad took the LAL posistion, which is at least acceptable imo. Could he be scum pushing a bandwagon? possibly, but my point of view tells me it's just a townie trying to build a case. (with the massive distraction of Brawl looming)

As for the lurking. There is really no doubt in my mind that Brawl is an acceptable reason for not posting, especially with the addition of his announced absence in the V/LA thread.

Out of all the players in this game, I'd say yes, Gorrad is top 3 suspicious, which is not enough for a vote from me.

[Patrick]

Ok, Miztef, you're saying that the following quote wasn't pretty clearly a joke?

Your Worst Nightmare wrote:

Also, joined in 2006 and 7 game posts? I'm calling alt here.

Well, you found me. Congratulations. Was it worth it? Because despite your violent behavior, the only thing you've managed to break so far is my heart. Maybe you could settle for that, and we'll just call it a day.

The addition of, "the only thing you've managed to break so far is my heart" is what made me think so. At the very least, I think he needed to clarify rather than just assuming it was serious and calling LAL.

Even with the joking, YWN's posts have been convoluted at best, I don't understand what he's saying about a lot of issues.

You've repeated this kind of thing several times now. I haven't found his posts

that

hard to follow or convoluted. Could you point me to parts of his posts that you think are convoluted and explain why those would be more likely to come from scum than town? Thanks.

As for the lurking. There is really no doubt in my mind that Brawl is an acceptable reason for not posting, especially with the addition of his announced absence in the V/LA thread.

I don't know what Brawl is or anything, but I'm assuming from the posts here that it's a video game. If so, then no, I don't think it's a good enough excuse to duck out of answering, with the deadline looming. Further, the lurking I'm pointing to has been over the past few days, at a time when he was clearly posting in other threads, so I don't see how Brawl can be an excuse for that. I felt like he started avoiding the thread as soon as I questioned him about his case on YWN, and when he did give an answer it was fairly unhelpful (just referring me back to post 99, which I'd read already).

Could he be scum pushing a bandwagon? possibly, but my point of view tells me it's just a townie trying to build a case. (with the massive distraction of Brawl looming)

Out of all the players in this game, I'd say yes, Gorrad is top 3 suspicious, which is not enough for a vote from me.

These are not contradictory in the strictest sense, but they give me two different impressions about your feelings on Gorrad.

Who are your top 3 suspicions at the moment, and what is causing you to waver on YWN?

[Incognito]

I see where Patrick is going with this so I'll prematurely

FoS: Miztef

. I've been getting some strange buddy-up vibes from him anyway.

I'll go into a more thorough case against Gorrad later today.

[Miztef]

I'll just start from the top of your post and work down:

Ok, so his line may be clearly a joke, but a joke from what angle? Does he or does he not have an alt, he never actually answers the question here. That is what I am talking about with convoluted.

And you ignore post 75. Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a core point making a post on you?

As part of a required test protocol, our previous statement suggesting that we were an alternate account was an outright fabrication. Good job. As part of a required test protocol, we will stop enhancing the truth in three, two, o--

Take that as you will.

What? Where? What's this? Who are you?

Your Worst Nightmare.

Also, welcome. We hope your brief detention in the relaxation vault has been a pleasant one. Your specimen has been processed and we are now ready to begin the test proper.

those are just some things I find slightly convoluted, but alas, I concede that this is more of my misunderstanding and not really YWN's fault.

Brawl refers to "Super Smash Bros Brawl" one of the most anticipated games of... well a long time, especially for a nintendo system. I myself am heavily distracted by it, and I can't even play it very often. So, I guess it's a personal bias on my part.

well, I understand the contradiction, but basically, the first part is what I thought when I began writing the post, and by the end, I concluded that he is pretty suspicious. The arguements you have presented, and a reread of YWN's posts have made me realize the convution is to a lower extent then I orginally thought, and his behavior is more humor based then scum based.

My top 3 are Gorrad (even more so now, after these arguements), Scotmany (for his lack of overall content, and "active lurking" as I like to call it, basically posting but not being helpful), and YWN (but his suspicion level is sinking fast).

In light of this, I will

unvote vote: Gorrad

. You've convinced me enough to at least prompt some content from him.


There are a great many other players that have caught my attention for other reasons as well, so I post on that soon too.

[Miztef]

oh and @incognito: I think I have a large bias towards gorrad because of our connection with brawl. I understand where he is coming from. But I will follow the gorrad bandwagon for now because I believe it may have some promise, and my opinion is too influenced on it to be trusted alone.

[Sir Tornado]

Miztef, do you think LAL is really applicable here? How could lying on whether or not one is an alt possibly be a scum tell?

Gorrad, I think we have a sunday deadline here. Do you intend to not post at all hence forth on D1.

[Sir Tornado]

@Patrick: I have to agree with Miztef on YWN's convulted posts part. I too find myself unable to understand what YWN says at times.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

Sir Tornado: I still have not seen you express your thoughts on your suspicions.

Gorrad: It would be very detrimental to the town if you are going to be away until one day before the deadline while you are the current focus of suspicion.

[Patrick]

@Patrick: I have to agree with Miztef on YWN's convulted posts part. I too find myself unable to understand what YWN says at times.

Of the two quotes Miztef gave on this, I thought the first one was YWN making fun of Gorrad, the second was just a welcome of The Jester. I suppose maybe some people find it harder to understand so I won't argue this point any further, but it didn't seem scummy to me.

Akonas:

@Akonas, you seem to have based part of a FoS of Miztef for caring about whether or not Nightmare is an alt. Did you read any of the discussion between me and Gorrad, which shows why it's important? Why are you only targetting Miztef with this when both Gorrad and I have made a bigger deal about it than him? I'll reiterate that I don't think Nightmare is an alt.

Question still stands.

Flameaxe, populartajo: Who do you guys suspect? Who would you be happy to lynch?

[Miztef]

LAL applicatable here, no, I think not. I think it's a good basis for suspicion, but not an absolute rule. It's not the explicit lying about alt that bothers me, it's causing confusion and not be clear which makes me think it's a type of scum strategy.

I think if Gorrad does not wish to post until after deadline, I'd be a bit more inclined to lynch him. It doesn't take that long to post a few lines, even if it isn't too much it's better then none.

[Incognito]

Copied from V/LA:

Brawl. OMGWTFBBQAWESOME!

Distracted until Sunday. Expect daily reads but not much more.

Just because it's written in the V/LA thread doesn't make it biblical or written in stone. In fact, you posted the above in the V/LA thread on Tuesday about two days and 25 out-of-our game posts after suspicions of you began to arise from Patrick's questions. One of these out-of-game posts included you /in-ing for another game. I highly doubt you're so busy that you can't give this thread some attention but have enough time to potentially take on another game. It's also quite convenient that this absence of yours extends up until the point of our deadline. Were you just going to leave your vote on Your Worst Nightmare and hope that the "lynch unfolded" while you were away being non-contributory? Tunnel-visioning on one player and assuming that your first non-random vote is absolutely correct is not pro-town behavior.

Confirm vote: Gorrad

OMGWTFBBQAWESOME!!!!!11111111111111

[populartajo]

Sorry for not posting before, this game goes too quick for posting with the same rate I was used to in newbie games.
Anyway, it seems that many people like the Gorrard lycnh, but to the promoters of this event, besides the V/LA situation and the YWN discusion, do you see any other particular scummy action?

I still don't get why whether he is an alt or not is all that important. I think that people generally create alts because, more often than not, they want to try out a new style of playing. So, even if he is an alt, it doesn't help us too much to find out how his original account played.

Why do I have the feeling that everyone has alts?

populartajo - Neutral, none of his posts stood out as scummy or protown

Yey, neutral!

Sorry for attempting to prove a point. I wasn't aware that was impossible

Have you ever proven one?

I read over Patrick's case against Gorrad and found myself nodding along with his interpretation of events. I won't be moving my vote to Gorrad just yet but it does bother me that Gorrad set up things so simply as "Who lies? Scum lie. I could feel the lynch unfold." when things aren't always as clear-cut as the way he seemed to portray. It also bothers me that he hasn't bothered to comment on anything else since the YWN discussion died down dramatically despite the fact that other events have happened since that point.

Totally agree. The only thing I dont like about this is that you and Patrick seem to be strangely connected and pretty active lately with this lynch. You could be active townies, but if Gorrard is town then IWGMEOY.

Been playing Brawl, and have only skimmed the last bit. I'll try for a reread in the next day or so, but no promises. My schedule's mostly full till Sunday.

Hey, you can love Brawl, but mafia is pretty jealous, you see?

see where Patrick is going with this so I'll prematurely FoS: Miztef. I've been getting some strange buddy-up vibes from him anyway.

Again?

I think if Gorrad does not wish to post until after deadline, I'd be a bit more inclined to lynch him. It doesn't take that long to post a few lines, even if it isn't too much it's better then none.

Add this guy to the list of suspects if Gorrard comes up town.
............
Basically I agree with a Gorrard lynch. I havent liked for a while and his buddys (Flameaxe and scotmany) seem to have taken a vacation to brawl lands.

But, I'd like a VC before, please.