Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[neko2086]

unvote; vote: Xtoxm

The town should feel inclined to always share as much information as they possibly can. They should also invest at least a little bit of interest in finding scum. So far, you've done neither, even when given the chance.

When you voted malthusis, you did so only after I had already criticized his post. You added absolutely nothing and voted for him. This, to me, looks like a diversion. After you have been criticized by a few people, you've taken the opportunity to keep attention shifted to somebody else who might possibly be scummier than you. This makes me much more nervous about you than him.


Marmalade, I'm still looking forward to hearing more from you.

[Xtoxm]

I think he's scum cos of the post specified.

There nothing more to say.

[Cephrir]

I think he's scum cos of the post specified.

There nothing more to say.

There has to be more to say. Why do you find it scummy? If it's gut, then it's gut, but at least tell us that.

[Xtoxm]

I don't like the way his case against Near is for being "too sarcastic". And his case against me is "posting for the sake of posting", that's not how I see it. And with Neko it seems like he's just throwing suspicion back, Neko is doing the most work to move town forward and I think he is pro-town, not scum trying to lead the town.

[Peers]

Neko and Xtomx are starting to feel more and more like scumbuddies to me...

[neko2086]

Hm. What leads you to that conclusion?

[ThAdmiral]

That's only what you say. Scum will hop on wagons and hope that it leads to a lynch eventually. And what better way to do it than to vote the players with more votes than others and call it an experiment?

So essentially because I was specifically the

third

person to vote I am to get all the suspicion for the wagon, and the person who stated that they wanted to start a wagon, the person who followed that person and the person that put the

fourth

vote on the wagon (while also calling for other people to vote) gets no suspicion?

I think you are being a bit to caught up in mafia lore (i.e. third on a wagon is scumzors) and also being a bit single minded.

[YvonneSeer]

They get

less

suspicion than you, who also bandwagoned earlier.

And take a look at your post.

I doubt it will work

now that you've basically admitted you are doing it as a somewhat of an experiment...

but what the hey!

unvote, vote: scigatt

"Hey I doubt your experiment will work but I will still vote and hope that it will lead to a lynch!"

[klebian]

Vote Count

, powered by The Count-Counter 2000

near- 2 (malthusis, jester)
thadmiral- 2 (yvonneseer, scigatt)
xtoxm- 1 (neko2086)
snix- 1 (near)
malthusis- 1 (xtoxm)
neko2086- 1 (marmalade)
cephrir- 1 (snix)

Not voting (3): cephrir, thadmiral, peers

7 to lynch.

[malthusis]

I don't like the way his case against Near is for being "too sarcastic". And his case against me is "posting for the sake of posting", that's not how I see it.

If this makes you so mad as to vote for me, why didn't you attack everyone who originally said those in the first place? I'm not exactly bringing anything revolutionary to the table, other people have stated these as well, just not in the same words.

[ThAdmiral]

They get

less

suspicion than you, who also bandwagoned earlier.

And take a look at your post.

I doubt it will work

now that you've basically admitted you are doing it as a somewhat of an experiment...

but what the hey!

unvote, vote: scigatt

"Hey I doubt your experiment will work but I will still vote and hope that it will lead to a lynch!"

Well you've chosen to interpret it that way and I guess I can't change your mind.

[Peers]

vote: xtomx

Call it a gut instinct.

[Xtoxm]

Gut = Random.

[Jester]

Yes, I can agree with ridiculous. But since when does ridiculous = mafia?

Hm. Your defense seems to be, "I'm not scum. I'm sarcastic!" In another game I'm in, we had a whole page of discussion about how sarcasm doesn't travel well over the Internet. And yeah, my initial take was that your 63 was trying to make neko look bad. My second take is that you were making fun of him. That seems to fit into your... aheh... sarcastic play style. To answer your question, though, I find that sarcasm is sometimes an excuse made by scum who are caught out early. They then claim to have been "making a joke," same as you.

In your case, though, you're being consistent so it's a decent defense. I'll go with an

unvote

combined with a

FOS: Near

for now. If you're a naturally sarcastic player, you'll be naturally sarcastic throughout the game into days 2 and 3 and beyond. If your sarcasm is just an act to hide scummish behavior, then you'll forget to be sarcastic, even with this little post to remind you.

Jester's few posts were very informative, but I'd like to see him post more.

As I said, had an event at work I was assisting with. I should be more active from here on out. As neko says, though, this opinion was ironic coming from you. I have my own opinion about Near. Otherwise, your 111 is pretty good. It's interesting that you don't post your own opinion about scigatt in all that text, though. You commented on just about everyone else who's been active.

Snix has a been another big contributer to the thread. He seems to be totally convinced by neko, and they seem to be working together (expecially on the wagon).

I don't see that at all. What brought you to that conclusion?

You didn't see this? Heh. How about all of pages 2 and 3, neko? malthusis is right. Snix was following you around like a puppy, following your opinions and answering all of your questions and ignoring everyone else's. It's in my notes, too. I just didn't want to comment on it yet.

I don't like his analysis either.

Which part? Yes, I realize that you said, "I just don't like it..." in your 124. Which

part

do you not like?

I don't like the way his case against Near is for being "too sarcastic".

As I said above, sarcasm is sometimes a mask that mafia use to hide scummish behavior. They claim to be sarcastic or to make jokes or to be just kidding... and meanwhile, they're instrumental in getting townie after townie lynched. It's always worth watching.

[Cephrir]

Gut = Random.

No. No, it really isn't. Some players play almost entirely based on gut, and some of those players are very good.

@Jester: i think you're overreacting to Near a little bit. Sarcasm as a cover-up for scummy behavior? That's one of the strangest attacks I've heard recently.

[Near]

Jester, I am not a sarcastic player. You can check out my posts on other games. You will see that I make sarcastic posts once in a while, i write most of my posts seriously.

One thing I want to make sure tho: I didn't claim sarcasm on this post. I said it is "ridiculous". I think this distinction is important.

let's get scigatt to -2.
then we lynch the last two people to put the hammer down on him!

vote scigatt

I conceded that the way I made the proposal could *sound* ridiculous. You judge for yourself. I guess there are two options: 1) I am scum and I am trying to explicitly get a bandwagon going on scigatt or 2) I am townie and I am trying to apply pressure to someone I find semi-scummy.

I'll go with an unvote combined with a FOS: Near for now. If you're a naturally sarcastic player, you'll be naturally sarcastic throughout the game into days 2 and 3 and beyond. If your sarcasm is just an act to hide scummish behavior, then you'll forget to be sarcastic, even with this little post to remind you.

Jester, your post sets me up for the future indictment. The truth is, it's not that I will "forget" to be sarcastic but it is that no one is sarcastic all the time. In fact, I don't even consider myself more sarcastic than average.

[Cephrir]

I conceded that the way I made the proposal could *sound* ridiculous. You judge for yourself. I guess there are two options: 1) I am scum and I am trying to explicitly get a bandwagon going on scigatt or 2) I am townie and I am trying to apply pressure to someone I find semi-scummy.

You forgot 3) You are scum trying to apply pressure to someone hoping they slip up. Not that I subscribe to that opinion, but scum don't always act like scum. That's the idea, at least.

[neko2086]

Snix has a been another big contributer to the thread. He seems to be totally convinced by neko, and they seem to be working together (expecially on the wagon).

I don't see that at all. What brought you to that conclusion?

You didn't see this? Heh. How about all of pages 2 and 3, neko? malthusis is right. Snix was following you around like a puppy, following your opinions and answering all of your questions and ignoring everyone else's. It's in my notes, too. I just didn't want to comment on it yet.

Page 2, ok, I can see that, but starting page 3 he avoided the scigatt wagon like the plague.


Yvonne, thAdmiral, do you have opinions on anyone besides each other?

Peers, while gut voting might work for you, it's really not going to fly as a valid excuse (for me, anyway). If you'd like to contribute to an argument against xtoxm, that would be helpful, which is something you should try to be if you're town. Right now, we have no way of knowing if you really are going off gut, or if you're using that as an excuse to wagon without explanation. Also, when it comes down to it, a 'gut' scum read usually stems from a general playstyle that seems scummy for an initially unnamable reason (which is then called gut), but when analyzed, can usually be credited to specific things. Does that make sense at all?

[Jester]

Jester, I am not a sarcastic player. You can check out my posts on other games. You will see that I make sarcastic posts once in a while, i write most of my posts seriously.

One thing I want to make sure tho: I didn't claim sarcasm on this post. I said it is "ridiculous". I think this distinction is important.

That was your initial take? How about now? When I consider it, if you thought my post was a

sarcastic post making fun of neko's 47

, I wouldn't find it ridiculous at all. Do you disagree?

The truth is, I went with the badwagon. I hoped to get some reactions from scigatt. Random and maybe ridiculous? Maybe. Counterproductive? I don't think so.

As for #15, what hostility? It was a random voting stage, dude. Yes, perhaps I tried to look semi-smart by

being sarcastic

, but it was 90% joke and 10% trying to get a response.

Emphasis mine. Obviously, I did think those things. I did think you were being overly sarcastic, and I did think you were making fun of neko (who I'm finding townish so far, if sometimes over-zealous). I dunno. Maybe I'm over-reacting, and I do have a weakness in mafia: I don't react well to people who play the game in an emotional way. People that play logically, I get along with fine. People who play by making fun of other players, calling them names, or trying to harass them into a reaction? I understand this is sometimes a valid mafia tactic, but I sometimes misinterpret it as scummy behavior. So there's my little meta for the day, I guess.

I conceded that the way I made the proposal could *sound* ridiculous. You judge for yourself. I guess there are two options: 1) I am scum and I am trying to explicitly get a bandwagon going on scigatt or 2) I am townie and I am trying to apply pressure to someone I find semi-scummy.

It's too early in the game for me to feel very strongly about anyone, so either of these options is still valid. If you don't think you're sarcastic by nature, fair enough. I have to admit, I threw the paragraph about you being sarcastic later in the game to see if you'd react to it, and you did, and in a townie way. So, that makes me feel better. Your 63

did

sound way over the top, though, particularly for so early in the game.

For the record, I currently believe scigatt's claim in post 9. So far, he seems to be trying to scum-hunt to the best of his ability. I don't think he's done anything that's particularly scummy.

[Xtoxm]

Hi. I haven't posted in a few days, but I haven't posted for a while, and will try and post at some time this afternoon, but otherwise it may be tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Posted on saturday 8th, before that the 2nd.

So what are your opinions right now?

[ThAdmiral]

Yvonne, thAdmiral, do you have opinions on anyone besides each other?

Yep.

I also don't like peers "gut" vote. It seems to me that he can't think of anything to say and is just using this as a cover to vote for someone without having to back up why.
It is also interesting to note that he chose to vote for the same person neko is voting, given that neko (more than anyone else) appears to have been accepted by most as town.
This is even more interesting given that his post prior to his vote he mentioned something about a possible scum-pair of neko and xtomx. Which he also didn't feel the need to elaborate on.

out of interest - @Cephrir: can you name a few of the players that play with their gut?

@ jester: can you point to a game where a mafiate has been sarcastic and at the same time been "instrumental in getting townie after townie lynched"?
I'm not the biggest fan of sarcasm on the internet either (although I find that clever people generally can pick it up) but I don't really think it's a scum tell.
Reckless behavior (which near has displayed) is somewhat of a scum tell, and covering the real reason of a vote (with jokes or manipulated analysis) is definitely a scum tell, but I don't really think near has done this.

[klebian]

Vote Count

, powered by The Count-Counter 2000

near- 2 (malthusis, jester)
thadmiral- 2 (yvonneseer, scigatt)
xtoxm- 2 (neko2086, peers)
snix- 1 (near)
malthusis- 1 (xtoxm)
neko2086- 1 (marmalade)
cephrir- 1 (snix)

Not voting (2): cephrir, thadmiral

7 to lynch.

Corrected

[Xtoxm]

Um I seem to be listed twice and i'm voting for myself in my 2nd vote I think that might be wrong.

[neko2086]

OK, this game is starting to lag. Let's not let it die, ok?

Mod: prod malthusis, yvonneseer, scigatt, and marmalade

please, as they haven't posted in over a week.

Prodded

Cephrir and thadmiral, do you have any thoughts on where you might place votes?

I'm thinking it might be helpful for us to start narrowing down lynch candidates. This should stimulate discussion enough to keep us moving along. I personally think the case against thadmiral is one of the weaker ones, as I don't think he joined the scigatt wagon under

any

sort of impression that it would lead to a lynch.

Peers on the other hand, doesn't have any votes on him, whereas I think he merits some. He's drawing a connection between myself and xtoxm without backing it up at all, and voting for xtoxm without any sort of reasoning. I almost want to switch my vote to him, but xtoxm's play still bothers me. After doing a quick meta on him, I see that he doesn't always make such short, contentless posts. I'm going to keep my vote where it's at for the time being.

[ThAdmiral]

Well at the moment i may have to vote for near to ensure my own safety. I wouldn't be that unhappy with a vote on him though.

I'd probably like to vote peers if I could.