Large Normal 207: Theatre Mafia

[mozamis]

maybe. i'm happy with either.

[Mulch]

Vote Jordan

[James Brafin]

Back that up. They weren't helpful last time in newbie, and they were scum.
Also, we have just 2 votes on Jordan, and now one on acid. Not much difference. I think maybe scum shifted from one town to another mislynchable town.

So, because they do something as scum means, they're willing to do it as town? That seems like fishy logic to me. I smell a Fallacy, can someone give me a hand?

[Not Known 15]

Back that up. They weren't helpful last time in newbie, and they were scum.
Also, we have just 2 votes on Jordan, and now one on acid. Not much difference. I think maybe scum shifted from one town to another mislynchable town.

Were they more active?

The round was smaller and less active at times but acid had about 10% of all posts including mod posts. Here they have less percentage but there are more players.

[James Brafin]

maybe. i'm happy with either.

Why are you happy with either? Do YOU know who the scum are?

[Not Known 15]

Back that up. They weren't helpful last time in newbie, and they were scum.
Also, we have just 2 votes on Jordan, and now one on acid. Not much difference. I think maybe scum shifted from one town to another mislynchable town.

So, because they do something as scum means, they're willing to do it as town? That seems like fishy logic to me. I smell a Fallacy, can someone give me a hand?

Yeah, you are missing the point that I want Acid to be voted, and Mulch says Acid is town. They(mulch) just stated something about meta and I brought up my last game with acid.

[James Brafin]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

[James Brafin]

Dang it, I found the Fallacy!

HITLER BUILT AUTOBAHNS

Hitler Built Autobahns arguments are a subset of the Correlation Implies Causation fallacy. It is exemplified by the following formulation:
Hitler built Autobahns (freeways). Hitler was evil. Therefore, building autobahns is evil.
Although Hitler was undeniably evil, his building autobahns was neither caused by, nor the cause of, his evil. Hence, it is unreasonable to assume that building autobahns is evil, and, in fact, it is a policy which has been espoused by many different political groupings.
Whilst pyschological and behavioural scumtells exist, a huge amount of things that players say and do as scum are not directly related to their alignment. An HBA argument in mafia would be along the lines of:
'You did X as scum in the last game I played with you, and you have done it here. Therefore, you are scum.'

Exactly what is going on here. This is beginning to look real shady.

[Not Known 15]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

Well, the argument Mulch gave to their idea of acid being town was "meta", without any further explanation. And meta is essentially based on what a player did in previous games, so...

[Mulch]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

Yeah, you are misinterpreting that. I told people that Acid is always town when they are useless like this, he provided a counterexample. He's not trying to say that because Acid was similar they are scum here, just that they aren't always town.

[Mulch]

Well, the argument Mulch gave to their idea of acid being town was "meta", without any further explanation.

How exactly do you want me to dscribe meta? It's a vibe thing

[Boonskiies]

Acid is town. Also boon that last post was shit, you just tried to undo a wagon by saying people on it are scum and then said the allignment of the person does not matter if they are scum.


Vote Jordan

I mean, I’d been saying I thought Jordan was a mislynch even before I went inactive. And I am one of the best people at reading massive, I feel, and i don’t think he’s scum this game. And if he is, I’ll be able to figure that out, but right now, this is pretty standard town massive.

[Boonskiies]

I feel I bring this up with you every game, Mulch...

[James Brafin]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

Yeah, you are misinterpreting that. I told people that Acid is always town when they are useless like this, he provided a counterexample. He's not trying to say that because Acid was similar they are scum here, just that they aren't always town.

I see. So you were using HBA.

[Boonskiies]

I said that even if Massive was scum, scum would still be busing in that scenario.

[Mulch]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

Yeah, you are misinterpreting that. I told people that Acid is always town when they are useless like this, he provided a counterexample. He's not trying to say that because Acid was similar they are scum here, just that they aren't always town.

I see. So you were using HBA.

not really, I've played multiple games with Acid and modded one of theirs too when they are scum. I'm drawing on many examples, not using one example

[Boonskiies]

Well, the argument Mulch gave to their idea of acid being town was "meta", without any further explanation.

How exactly do you want me to dscribe meta? It's a vibe thing

Meta isn’t really “a vibe thing”. It’s generally pretty standard to be able to explain meta, or else it’s just a familiarity with the player thing.faniliarity, I guess, is similar, though. I’ll give you that one.

[James Brafin]

I said that even if Massive was scum, scum would still be busing in that scenario.

Agreed. So right now we're looking for scum on massive. If Massive is the scum everyone thinks he is, then we can worry about him on Day 2; confirmed mafia is always better on a later date. If we're pretty sure he's mafia, the best idea is to leave him be and start looking at his wagon.

[Mulch]

I mean, I’d been saying I thought Jordan was a mislynch even before I went inactive. And I am one of the best people at reading massive, I feel, and i don’t think he’s scum this game. And if he is, I’ll be able to figure that out, but right now, this is pretty standard town massive

This has nothing to do with your scummy point. You thinking they are town separately from wagon construction is fine, but don't use that as an excuse for when you say:


"I think that there are people on Jordan's wagon that are scum (which honestly SHOULD have no influence on your decision anyway)",

but even if Jordan is scum they could be scum anyway

. So you basically just took 3 people and said they could be scum REGARDLESS of Jordan...so why did you bring up Jordan anyway? If it didn't matter?



Also Boon, your not the best day 1 player. So maybe sheep me for once??? And then I'll sheep you lategame if you are alive, unless ur scum ofc.

[Mulch]

Massive? I thought you said Jordan?

[Not Known 15]

Well, the argument Mulch gave to their idea of acid being town was "meta", without any further explanation.

How exactly do you want me to dscribe meta? It's a vibe thing

Well, you are one of my scumreads, and vague "gutreads", "vibes" and the like coming from a player can be extremely easily faked by scum.
You see the problem?

[Mulch]

Well, the argument Mulch gave to their idea of acid being town was "meta", without any further explanation.

How exactly do you want me to dscribe meta? It's a vibe thing

Well, you are one of my scumreads, and vague "gutreads", "vibes" and the like coming from a player can be extremely easily faked by scum.
You see the problem?

Yes, but can they also be done by town?

[James Brafin]

I said that even if Massive was scum, scum would still be busing in that scenario.

Agreed. So right now we're looking for scum on massive. If Massive is the scum everyone thinks he is, then we can worry about him on Day 2; confirmed mafia is always better on a later date. If we're pretty sure he's mafia, the best idea is to leave him be and start looking at his wagon.

Pardon me, I didn't finish my thought.
The same is true of Jordan or whatever. It doesn't matter WHO's wagon we're looking at, the important thing is that rather than looking at the wagon, we should be looking at potential bussers that don't want to get caught. BUt with Massive having half to lynch, I assumed there was a pretty large consensus that he looked bad.

[mozamis]

'You did X as scum in the last game I played with you, and you have done it here. Therefore, you are scum.'

It's more a case of probabilities than logical certainty. As you say, if someone does something in a previous game, and they do it here, it does not mean they are defintely the same alignment.
But in practice, because most epople aren't that good at playing as scum they tend to play in a SIMILAR way.

Anyway, I think Notknow was just making a "meta" point, that Acid looks similar here to how he did when he was scum. He might be wrong, but in this game, meta is just another word for experience, sometimes it's a good indication.

[Mulch]

Ok everyone let's stop this idiotic theory talk and vote Jordan