Thespival Mafia (Denouement)

[Beep! Beep!]

Since I am looking at being deadline lynched, time is short, and self-preservation an issue. Therefore I will prioritize analysis the following players:

Monkey, al_kohaulec, and Sarcastro

Only because they each have two votes.

Please give me a few hours for each.

[Beep! Beep!]

ANALYSIS:

Monkey

Lurking and non-committal, overall. Nothing jumps at me. Therefore, Mastermind's vote, and Sarcastro's votes are suspicious, like they are hiding behind a dark horse rather than compromising themselves on the lead wagon, which would be me.

al_kohalek

Very active, positive contribution. Seems even more pro-town than Monkey. So I have to wonder why Battle Mage and curiouskarmadog are voting for him, and these two are suspicious for the same reason Mastermind and Sarcastro are voting for Monkey.

Sarcastro

In contrast to the other two players, Sarcastro is all over the place, and strikes me, alternately, as manipulative, stochastic, buddying, etc. Since his Monkey vote is suspicious, I will vote for Sarcastro.

vote: Sarcastro

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep Beep seems more suspicious of the people who are voting for the players who aren't her than she is of the players who are voting for her. This doesn't seem naturally town-like to me.

vote: Beep! Beep!

CLAIM: Vanilla.

So no big deal if you lynch me, because I am not a power role, and no power role is being outed.

My wagon is not so big that I think there is a lot of scum on it. This being said, I do believe that Pooky's vote on me IS scummy. Less so for the others.

I looked at the other lynch candidates to figure out what the best strategy is to place my vote.

Yes, I am more suspicious of people voting for players that I see are very pro-town. I don't think my predecessor was especially pro-town.

Just being coldly objective here.

[Beep! Beep!]

Greasy Spot(town) WAGON
curiouskarmadog, mith(town), PookyTheMagicalBear, petroleumjelly,
Captain Bandwagon/farside, Cult of the Couch (1), Iammars, Mastermind of Sin

RossWilliam WAGON
petroleumjelly, PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro(town), al_kohaulec(town), Battle Mage

JDGA(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, petroleumjelly, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22

Beep! Beep!(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22, Talitha(town), PookyTheMagicalBear

Monkey(town) WAGON
Mastermind of Sin, Sarcastro(town), Holy, MeMe, PookyTheMagicalBear, al_kohaulec(town)

Pooky was on FIVE of these wagons
Farside/CB was on THREE
Pj on TWO
Mastermind on TWO
hasdgfas on TWO
RossWiliam on TWO

Pooky's bandwagon vote on me yesterday was very suspicious. I also see the case against farside. Farside might only be more careful than Pooky. I would be willing to vote for wither Pooky or farside today.

I want Pooky to explain in detail why he joined every wagon. Can scum be that brazen and in-your-face?

[Beep! Beep!]

I thought that Monkey was the Doctor. Monkey's card had Star Trek's Doctor McCoy.

[Beep! Beep!]

Did farside actually claim Doctor? Is farside referring to this game, or an actual Thespical RL game? The wording is too strong to be a breadcrumb. Was Monkey at rish of being lynched when she made that statement?

I'm asking this because I checked Monkey's posts, and nowhere does Monkey vote against farside. Nor did Monkey counterclaim.

Something is not making sense, and I don't know what it is.

[Beep! Beep!]

yeah he claimed, but in a game this size having 2 doctors (or a back up) is not that uncommon.

Would they have the exact same card, though?

There is no indication from Monkey's card, or from farside's claim, that either was a backup.

[Beep! Beep!]

Sorry, I missed that farside wagon. I have revised my analysis.

Greasy Spot(town) WAGON
curiouskarmadog, mith(town), PookyTheMagicalBear, petroleumjelly,
Captain Bandwagon/farside, Cult of the Couch (1), Iammars, Mastermind of Sin

RossWilliam WAGON
petroleumjelly, PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro(town), al_kohaulec(town), Battle Mage

JDGA(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, petroleumjelly, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22

farside WAGON
PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro(town), Talitha, RossWilliam, al_kohaulec(town), MeMe, curiouskarmadog)

Beep! Beep!(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22, Talitha(town), PookyTheMagicalBear

Monkey(town) WAGON
Mastermind of Sin, Sarcastro(town), Holy, MeMe, PookyTheMagicalBear, al_kohaulec(town)

Pooky was on SIX of these wagons
Farside/CB was on THREE (out of 5 because one wagon was on her)
RossWiliam on THREE
Pj on THREE
Mastermind on TWO
hasdgfas on TWO
MeMe on TWO

I don't believe in the "two doctor" theory.

vote: farside22

[Beep! Beep!]

Just a memo:

al kohalec only had one investigation. Since he voted/FOS'd the below players, none of these were the one cleared innocent. I reckon it doesn't give us much information, but here it is.

farside
Ross William
CKD
Sarcastro
Monkey

This is jumping the gun a bit. But assuming that Pooky is town (I have a hard time to believe that scum would be so blatantly wagonny) and that farside is scum, I have looked back at the previous days wagons:

Scum Scores:

With farside as unknown alignment

95 PJ
91 RossWilliam
88 hasdgfas
78 farside
53 MoS
50 BM
33 MeMe
33 Holy
33 karma
20 Iammars

With farside as scum

116 RossWilliam
108 PJ
83 hasdgfas
66 MeMe
58 MoS
58 karma
50 BM
33 Holy
25 Iammars

[Beep! Beep!]

but you think farside is the scum based on what?

Based on a combination of wagoniness and the redundant doctor claim.

I think you are deliberately misrepresenting the numbers here. You talk about the JDGA and Beep Beep wagon like they are two different people.

You're correct, I am going to have to redo all my calculations.

Why is it you deliberately take wolf out of the line up on this wagon? Maybe because you replaced in for wolf/jdga?!

I must have grabbed a different votecount. But since I know myself to be a townie, it doesn't change anything.

Also in your first analysis you didn’t even include the farside wagon?

An oversight I have since corrected.

[Beep! Beep!]

Actually, the JDGA and Beep Beep wagons were two independent wagons, even if on the same player. My calculations hold.

[Beep! Beep!]

For those saying the mafia didn't kill me last night, why would they when Monkey came up doctor.

Please provide a link to the post where a player is pointing out that you should have been nightkilled las night. I am not seeing this post.

But now that you mention it, if you are a second doctor, the scum would have killed you rather than take a chance on some other player that might be doc-protected.

Vote stands.

[Beep! Beep!]

I can't even defend myself against your numbers cause you don't give me any way to do so.

That's unfortunate.

So you've conjured this information out of thin air, and than you left me of the greasy spot wagon.

If you were on the GS wagon, then I should add a few points to your score. Since you are in the lead, it makes no difference.

If I vote you, I look like I'm bussing.

That sentence is not something a townie would write.

So please, explain yourself. What the hell are scum scores?

It is a system. If you notice, each score can be made up by adding the numbers 20, 25, 33, and 50. It is not abitrary.

[Beep! Beep!]

@ farside

, in this post :
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 815#925815
you voice a short a analysis of a number of players.

These players are:
Sarcastro(town), BM(unknown), Talitha(town), Alko(town), MeMe(unknown), CKD(unknown), Wolfcrier (town), Holy(unknown), and Pooky(unknown).

Players that you have omitted from your analysis: WHY???

RossWilliam
PJ
hasdgfas
MoS
Karma

If you turn out scum, I would bet that at least one of BM, MeMe, and CKD is your buddy. I'm not putting Pooky on the list for unrelated reasons. I cannot give them an actual score number for this increased suspicion, because it's different from the other system.

@hasdgfas

- Since I think you are scum, I'll wait until a player that is more likely to be a townie asks me. I am sorry, but I am going to have to ignore your questions if I think my answers might give scum some hints.

[Beep! Beep!]

elaborate

suspicions

Terrific! The scum has a sense of humor.

My answer is no.

[Beep! Beep!]

I didn't realize that hasdgfas had a post restriction. Could he be faking it?

@farside

It is interesting that you find all the players on my list to be either neutral or pro-town. Not a single one even slightly scummy.

When I make my analysis, I try to find scum. I know my own alignment and make use of that information. If I don't, I will be less effective. The rest of you are free to make your own analyses, peg me as 'unknown alignment' and yourself as whatever alignment you know yourself to be, and draw your own conlusions.

[Beep! Beep!]

I don't think this game is so flavorful and need to have 2 doctors able to save at night at the same time, I'm not ignoring the possibility of a backup doctor in large game, but it's more likely there's a doc and a nurse than 2 docs since the beginning.
Are you trying shifting suspicion to me, there? ~.^

Both claimed Doctors claimed Star Trek's McCoy. There is no indication that either is a backup, or that one is a nurse.

Both claims are for full Doctors, same character, same card.

Do you believe the game has two full powered Doctor McCoy's?

[Beep! Beep!]

I thought about what people said about protecting those who were not an obvious target.

I am intrigued by the strategy of a doctor deciding not to protect the most obvious, and therefore most valuable targets - choosing instead a peripheral player that is unlikely to be targeted, and who might be scum (not cop-cleared, claimed, or the like).

Should all doctors do this all the time? If not, what percentage of the time? Does the number of killing factor influence this number? If yes, in what way?

If the doctor is to protect a target that is not obvious (claimed cop for example), should the doctor choose a player that

defends himself

well, or a player that

scumhunts

aggressively?

[Beep! Beep!]

Error...

I meant killing FACTIONS, not factors.

[Beep! Beep!]

It's not me, being vanilla and all.

Pooky, have you weighed in on the farside issue?

[Beep! Beep!]

she's scum

duh

i said it yesterday

Great. With farside and Talitha's killer, we should have two scum to lynch/vig tonight and/or tomorrow. I'm looking forward to the new developments.

[Beep! Beep!]

I am not a Harley Davidson nor am I in High Definition.

[Beep! Beep!]

ooi, Pooky, do you think it is worthwhile for the town to lose 2 power roles at this stage of the game when things are already looking grim, in exchange for 1 scumbag?

It's important that we get rid of some scum today, so that we can have scum alignments confirmed, and we have some material to look back upon to find more scum.

With whomever Pooky points to, and farside, we might have two scum hits very soon.

Pooky's decision to out himself is correct. With 3 nightkills per night, he shouldn't wait to die with his information, which is a very likely scenario. Since Pooky himself came out, I am free to point out that I noticed that he was cleared by the dead cop. Pooky is a dead teddy bear walking.

[Beep! Beep!]

unvote

Note to self:

Farside claims Doctor #2, but doesn't get nightkilled.
Farside claims having targeted Ross Williams for protection because he was not a likely target.
Ross Williams shows up in my analysis as likely scum.
Ross Williams unecessarily rushes to unvote Farside in anticipation of Pooky's information.

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep Beep, your theory is that because the mafia didnt kill farside this proves that he is scum?

My argument is three-pronged. You are ignoring 2 other important reasons why I believe that farside22 is fakeclaiming.

(1) A second full doctor with the same Star Trek character is unlikely.

(2) farside22's choice to protect a player that would be unlikely to be targeted sounds like scum. Three people died Night 1. Three people died Night 2. With so many nightkills, you protect the player you find most townie, and most likely to be nightkilled. That's common sense.

(3) The fact that farside22 was not one of the three nightkills lends credence to the above two points.

[Beep! Beep!]

I am free to point out that I noticed that he was cleared by the dead cop.

Where?

Thy scum wants to know? Here you go:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 726#929726

Pooky, why are you town?

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep Beep, your theory is that because the mafia didnt kill farside this proves that he is scum?

My argument is three-pronged. You are ignoring 2 other important reasons why I believe that farside22 is fakeclaiming.

(1) A second full doctor with the same Star Trek character is unlikely.

(2) farside22's choice to protect a player that would be unlikely to be targeted sounds like scum. Three people died Night 1. Three people died Night 2. With so many nightkills, you protect the player you find most townie, and most likely to be nightkilled. That's common sense.

(3) The fact that farside22 was not one of the three nightkills lends credence to the above two points.

Question for #2. Didn't only 2 people die night one?

You are correct, I have miscounted the NKs on Night 1.

It does not invalide point number 1, which is how unlikely it is to have a full second doctor.

It does not invalide point number 2, which is that a claimed doctor protecting an "unlikely target" like Ross Williams - when we already have a dead doctor - is extremely scummy.

It does not invalide point number 3, which is, why weren't you nightkilled?

[Beep! Beep!]

There's no way that means "I investigated Pooky and found him to be innocent." Check the very

next

post al_ko submits...

Why wouldn't I be town?

Because you enjoy slaughtering your sheep.

I don't know. Maybe to make it less obvious, so that Pooky wouldn't be too obviously a nightkill? It sounds like a joke. If I were cop, I would never write a sentence like "Pooky, why are you town?" unless I wanted it to be interpreted later as a breadcrumb. As far as I can see, there was no hint of al_kohaulec clearing anyone else on Day 2.

And an earlier one (still Day 2) that questions Iammars' clearing of Pooky.

I fail to see how that makes Pooky protown. MoS can back me when I say we played a (I think it was C9) mafia game where he, though town, formed an elaborate plan that did not help the town. In all honesty though, I was scum that game and because of the information I derived from day, Pooky's plan would have been best for the town in that situation . Town still won nonetheless.

Why twice publicly question the alignment of a player he knows to be town?

OK - Just going out on a limb here, and bearing in mind that I don't expect a cop to write: "Pooky, why are you town?" without specifically intending it to be clearing Pooky, it is possible that he is merely questioning Iammars' logic. And he's still saying that Pooky's plan would have been best for the town... I'm not sure what he means there.

So it's not so clear cut. But then again, Pooky has claimed a information role, one that might have a very good chance to lead to a scum lynch... so far, it seems to support that al_kohaulec left a breadcrumb. Would al_kohaulec have targeted Pooky as a player whose alignment very much needed to be confirmed? That would make sense to me.

More sense than farside22 protecting Ross Williams because he was an unlikely target, if you don't mind my riding the cute streak.

[Beep! Beep!]

Unvote: Farside22

.

Please provide reasoning for your unvote.

[Beep! Beep!]

@hasdgfas - Your attempt to cast aspersions on me will fail, because I have provided plenty of reasoning for everything I have done, including my vote. Casting aspersions on players for reasons that are demonstrably misleading is scummy. Your claim doesn't give you a free pass.

@petroleum - Since you your name has floated on top of my scumlist following voting analysis, I rather you not get away with unreasoned votes and unvotes. This is the kind of strategy that you may employ in order to avoid later scrutiny. Is it not customary to provide reasons for votes or unvotes? Your asking this questions is a transparent attempt to get yourself out of a defensive position, into an offensive position. Fail. Fail, and please justify your farside22 unvote, there should be no need for other players to have to make special requests.

[Beep! Beep!]

scum scores?

My vote on farside22 is independent of the scum scores. I've explained my vote for farside22 in detail.

Hence your comment that I am "a pot calling the kettle black" when asking that petroleum explain her unvote is misleading. I did explain my vote. Many times, in fact.

I hold the high ground when I ask for petroleum to explain her unvote.

[Beep! Beep!]

^ Additionally, you claim that with Farside22 as unknown alignment, I am the top of your list; assuming that you do not know Farside22's alignment, your vote on Farside22 (who is fourth on your list) over myself (who is first) does not even make sense.

That scumlist ONLY looks at voting patterns.

My vote for Farside22 is clearly based on the unlikelihood of a second full doctor claim, a claim identical to that of a player confirmed by death, a very odd night choice, the so-called doctor surviving a night with 3 kills, AND to some extent, farside22 showing up on my scumlist.

I am quite certain that you realize this, and that you realize it fully and completely.

Have I not explained my vote at length, and repreatedly?

Thank you for explaining why you unvoted, though your answer was quite vague, especially weighed against the detail of your attempt to discredit me.

[Beep! Beep!]

I already know that no matter what I say I'm being lynched I have nothing to lose.

Please provide us with a list of your top 7 suspects, with rationale. Three full sentences per candidate minimum.

[Beep! Beep!]

Please give three more. There are reasons why I asked for seven.

[Beep! Beep!]

If you had 3 more to pick from the 10 players that didn't make your list, who would they be? It's not that hard.

[Beep! Beep!]

I already know that no matter what I say I'm being lynched I have nothing to lose.

Please provide us with a list of your top 7 suspects, with rationale. Three full sentences per candidate minimum.

look forward to reading yours as well

I've made my list of suspects plenty clear and abundantly detailed.

I don't mind doing it again.

But farside goes first. 'Cuz I asked first.

[Beep! Beep!]

no you have not...you are asking far to provide a scum list of 7 people with 3 sentences each..which is ridiculous, and you have done nothing close to what you are asking of him...he has provided 4, you can provide just as many, and remember no less than 3 sentences...

You haven't read my posts. Three sentences is peanuts, BTW. I note that you are trying to discredit me by making it sound like an unreasonable demand.

^^^^^
Three sentences, and four counting this one, woot! I'm exhausted, I think I'm going to sleep for a month.

[Beep! Beep!]

note whatever you want. your request was unreasonable...there are 14 people left in this game and you wanted him to provide a scum list of 7 (that alone is just silly). And you want 3 sentences each why he thought they were scummy..he provided 4, but you are trying to make him look scummy, because he doesnt have any other suspects.

Yep. And that's the only thing that makes farside22 look scummy?

I reiterate. I have asked for 7 for a good reason.

[Beep! Beep!]

AFTER farside.

Not a minute before.

Like I said. There is a reason.

[Beep! Beep!]

I wanted to compare with what you wrote on Feb 8. I didn't like that post much, because it lacked clarity; purposely?

Sarcastro

-

How is it that someone can come in and hammer without suspicion just so they can have time to read? Joins bandwagon saying he agree with Pooky.

Disagrees with Monkey about what I thought as well seeing his voting pattern. Seems people think he is just that way.

Sarcastro is dead, and was town. These comments try to make Sarcastro look just a bit suspicious, but a excuse for Sarcastro is made at the same time.

BM:

How do you know Sarc is the jester? What lead you to that thought? Scummie looking is hard to ignore. Someone taking him seriously is nothing to be harsh about.

Tries to make BM suspicious for "looking like he knows Sarc is the jester" - BM, or any other player, couldn't "know" Sarc is the jester. Take home message from farside: it's not a bad idea to take Sarcstro seriously. This says absolutely nothing about BM, or anyone else, really.

Talitha

- Out often. Checks in. Hasn't offered anything. Posting just enough not to be replace. Blah. Wait finally got something. Not really getting everything she is saying, but mostly good comments made overall.

Talitha is dead, and was town. Pretty much an activity report, and little more than a vague approval.

Alko:

Why was RW wrong for attacking Sacro? He voted really without much of a reason. Post 577 trying to justify comments about RW was not answered well. Looks like he got trapped by his own comments and has no way to really get out. I just feel he is getting off too easy and CKD allowed him to.

Alko is dead, and was town. Farside disapproves for Alko's attack on RW. That one rare clear message here. Chides CKD for letting Alko easy on what he describes as a failed attack on RW by alko.

MeMe:

Post 567 sounds more like she is lying back and watching then playing. Less talk from a player mean less information. Lurkering without comments are thoughts leads to thought of you being scum. Few other comments. Pretty much called Holy out for what she is doing too. Blah.

MeMe who is on my scumlist, was also mentioned today in farside's shortlist. Pretty much a report on activity and little else. Approves of MeM attacking of Holy. Holy is also on farside's shortlist today.

CDK:

What part of Al-Ko post 577 was adequate? Really the only one to say it was adequate and joined this game of Pooky's. Really don't get the game.

Disapproves of CKD's approval of Alko. Noticed that CKD has contrary opinions. One of whom seems to be to find farside town. Any read on CKD being the jester perhaps?

Wolfcrier:

Post 586 offered next to nothing in scum hunting or pro-town. Wait I see he is new. Maybe he just doesn't know how to look at things all around. Replaced so will wait to see what replacement says before coming to any real conclusions.

That's the guy I'm replacing. Basically saying nothing in 4 sentences. See, it's not that hard...

Holy:

not much offer. Best thing she did on her own was note Monkeys comment. Seems to lay low and not say much of anything.

Report on activity only. Approves of Holy's attack on Monkey (town) and Holy is also named on farside's suspect list.

Pooky:

I'm confused by your game. How does lynching me show who is town and who is scum? How is sarcastro pro town for voting with you? How do you gain information from the people you chose. It seems very random way to do things.

Seems most upset with Pooky, mostly based on self-defensiveness.

From my read it seems so people were just let off the hook without really any follow thru. Most of my read I felt 3 people really stood out for different reason's. However my top suspect is al_kohaulec

Unvote: Vote: al_kohaulec

From farside's comments, the worst thing Alko did was to attack Ross William.

Farside say he has top three suspects

but only names Alko

, and follows through with a vote.

My conclusion is that the above is not truly an analysis, but obfuscation. Also, Alko, who attacked Ross William, was not lynched, but was nightkilled, though it's hard to speculate about nightkills. Farside names a lot of players (about half the living players on that day, which is why I wanted half the living players today). A couple of recurring players (for no apparent reason) are MeMe and Holy. These two players should be watched, along with Ross William - if farside turns out to be scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

Was I supposed to mention people that were dead.

Of course not. But I am comparing, and I am analyzing the type of comment you were making on players whose alignment we now know for certain.

Yesterday, you seemed to have no trouble making a long list of players, and writing up 3 sentences. Today, it seems a difficult task.

Your vote smells of desperation. Your claim that I asked that you include dead players in your list is transparently preposterous.

Again you mention Holy and MeMe. But you end your post entreating us only to look at Holy. I'd bet a dollar that if you're scum, MeMe is your buddy. Could be Holy, though. But I'd lean towards MeMe, and RossWilliam.

[Beep! Beep!]

But the more I reflect on it, the more I realize that I might just be projecting ill-will on Beep Beep because she keeps targetting me. I'm gonna keep my eye on her, and try to determine if the gut objection i'm feeling towards her is tactical or emotional, because it wouldn't be smart or fair if it's the latter. I'll be careful, I promise. For now, farside will do.

No need for you to come hard against me, you can always nightkill me! Try to make yourself look good now, for when I turn up a dead townie tomorrow morning. Good strategy!

[Beep! Beep!]

exactly.

Why are you voting for farside22 if you think that the wagon is full of mindless zombies?

Or did I misunderstand you?

[Beep! Beep!]

in addition to the last post. Yes, you mistunderstood me, Beep-Beep. I was saying exactly, as in posts like that are exactly why she's hurting her cause. She was proving my point.

Alright...

[Beep! Beep!]

Although I'm quite sure Farside is scum

Is there a strategic reason for you to hold you vote right now?

BeepBeep might be a jester that finally decides to help us hunting scum.

Were my predecessors Jester-ish? Is there not a more efficient way to have oneself lynched, than to hunt scum? But thank you for recognizing that I am hunting scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

Holy, why do you feel that Beep Beep could be the jester?

I have an inkling that the Jester might be you, as you seem to hold many opinions contrary to logic, common sense, or going straight against the grain of the majority thinking in the game.

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep, were is that scum list you said you would post?

I want to do a good job. Later today.

[Beep! Beep!]

Iammars, I agree with BM, the doc claim saved his ass, I doubt a Jester would have wanted to save his own ass.

Not if he expected to be counterclaimed. Then he would have expected to be lynched on that day, or the following day. Although - he'd have a 50-50 chance of being nightkilled or vigged, so it's a gambit he wouldn't try unless very close to being lynched.

[Beep! Beep!]

Iammars, I agree with BM, the doc claim saved his ass, I doubt a Jester would have wanted to save his own ass.

Not if he expected to be counterclaimed. Then he would have expected to be lynched on that day, or the following day. Although - he'd have a 50-50 chance of being nightkilled or vigged, so it's a gambit he wouldn't try unless very close to being lynched.

what do you care, you think he is the lynch for today...

I have to give the Jester possibility the consideration it deserves, as well as the possibility that YOU may be the Jester. I interpret your post as an attempt to make it look like I am not giving this game any thought. I have to wonder why you'd even try, since there is no chance of you convincing any townie.

also, still waiting on you to address the rest of my post.

The rest of which post? As for the list, I've already mentioned that wanting to do a good job, I cannot do it until tonight.

[Beep! Beep!]

Let's see, Jester about to get lynchced on day one, what should jester claim?

OOH OOH I KNOW

JESTER SHOULD CLAIM DOCTOR.

What if he counts on being counterclaimed?

It wouldn't be a

brilliant

strategy, but it wouldn't be the first half-baked idea in the history of mafia. Or the last.

[Beep! Beep!]

this was the post...please address the rest of it.

you mean the "majority thinking" and "common sense" that lynched Monkey? Please Beep, what opinions do I hold that are contrary to logic? That we had a claimed doc yesterday. That doc wasnt killed last night by mafia OR the vig OR the SK, so that means he has to be scum? If indeed farside is the doc and the mafia didnt kill them last night, what arguement do you think they would be using today to get him lynched? I believe the claim, he knew about the McCoy card before the McCoy card was shown...I know some link has been shown where you can see the card, but how did he know where to find that link? I didnt even know there was a link that had cards. Please explain your theory on this Beep (and anyone else).

There is plenty of scum in this game, which taint the "majority" opinion.

That's a pretty boring exercize but I'll humor you.

There wasn't a solid case on Monkey as there is on farside22, and there was a deadline looming. "

That doc wasnt killed last night by mafia OR the vig OR the SK, so that means he has to be scum?

" Yeah, pretty much it does, since the cop wasn't dead yet. Extra incentive to kill the doctor.

The "all-out" way you defend farside22 appears increasingly Jester-like to me. Your "arguments" are not cogent, but un-focused bluster. It's as if you are trying to get a reaction, more than you are trying to convince. I don't believe you are actually trying to persuade anyone of anything, other than yourself being a good lynch. Only a Jester would do that.

And only a Jester would keep on attacking a player (myself) who has shown herself to be on the aggressive side.

The links to find the images could possibly be figured out by looking up the image's properties (right-click on mouse) and find where the image is hosted. Then find the root directory. Piece of cake for a web-savvy player. I don't know if that's the case here, but there has ways that have nothing to do with one's alignment. I don't understand what you're suggesting.

[Beep! Beep!]

1. Farside22

Second full doc claim. Was not nightkilled. Chose to protect a player unlikely to be targeted. Badly playing his Jester role?

2. CKD

More and more, I suspect may be Jester. See post above.

3. Ross Williams

On account of vote analysis. Also: Ross William wrote the following: "Yes, I am interested in hunting scum. But other than pressuring has to break his post restriction, I haven't done much yet" on Jan 28. His excuse is noobness. Connecting the dots: "i'm curious about your findings on

Holy

,

Meme

. I had kinda been overlooking her, and now" Two players (Holy and MeMe) also named on farside's short and recent scumlist. Didn't do much except to vote and unvote hasdfgs, JDGA (me), Greasy Spot, yesterday, and try not to offend anybody. Today, mostly arguing with me, seemingly shocked that my analysis picked up his name, saying that we could have another doctor. And coincidence, farside claims to have protected Ross William. Why, oh why???

On Feb 22: "I'm very much against a farside quicklynch now. "
On Feb 23: "don't get cocky now, farside. I'm wavering on you, but you're definately not off the hook yet. Far from it."

3. MeMe

Wishy-washy, lurkerish, keeps being mentioned by Farside22. They also mention Holy a lot along with MeMe, but Holy seems rather noob town, so I believe they are draggin her in the mud as an easy target. Deadline voted Monkey no explanation given. Talitha wrote: "So my vote is staying on farside - my gut just says she is scum. The way MeMe is flirting with voting her, but really doesn't want to be voting her, is suspicious to me too, but that could possibly be paranoia on my part. " Maybe that's why Talitha had to die. Note to self: MeMe also mentioned QuickBen, like RossWilliam did. MeMe seems to think that there was a possibility that Farside22 may be the Jester.

PJ:

Made some well worded, but logically incoherent arguments against my list here. Strong sense of self-preservation. Challenged the Ross William wagon: "For those of you voting RossWilliam, please explain to me why you are voting for him – and then explain to me why you are voting RossWilliam over wolfcrier. " Interestingly, mentions in the following posts how he expects the town to

distance

. To

distance

. Right after he

defended

a buddy? I wonder. Earlier still, PJ defended Ross William against al_kohalec (town).

hasdfgs:

Post restriction screams town. Behavior screams scum. Though he showed up pretty high on my scum score list, ill have to go along with town.

MoS:

A fluffy flurry of fluff posts. Made excuses for RW, approved something against Holy. Unreadable. Doesn't strike me as pro-town, just striving to be neutral.

Iammars:

A follower, not a leader. No significant contribution beyond agreement with the general sentiment. Flails in the prevailing wind.

BM:

I get a solid town vibe from BM. He's been focused, and paying attention, and he's not taking guff from anybody.

Pooky:

I get a solid town vibe from Pooky. His trap didn't work, but only townies would pull that kind of gambit.

Holy:

Though she keeps getting mentioned by players I believe may be scum, I get a town vibe from her.

Summary:

95 # PJ - scum
91 # RossWilliam - scum
33 # MeMe - scum
================
78 $ farside - scum/jester
33 $ karma - scum/jester/jester/jester
================
53 ? MoS - uncertain
20 ? Iammars - uncertain
88 - hasdgfas - town
50 - BM - town
33 - Holy - town

[Beep! Beep!]

also, if Farside is indeed a doc, what case would mafia use to attack him today?

None. Mafia wouldn't care to attack claimed Doc #2. Because they can always NK him anyway, they don't need to compromise themselves during the lynch. And the cop is dead. Mafiosi don't have to worry about an unknown doctor protecting an outed cop with results every day.

You are scum, you are scum pushing an easy lynch.

If I wanted to push a real easy lynch, I would pick YOU, not a player that has claimed Doctor. Especially since you are actively trying to provoke me, which I understand would be top priority for you if you were Jester. It's not going to work.

...maybe Holy is right and you are the jester hoping that farside is indeed the the doc, so you take the blame tomorrow...if farside turns out scum, it is no skin off your teeth either.

If I were the Jester, why would it matter whether farside is the doctor? With 3 nightkills, I wouldn't wait until tomorrow to engineer my own lynch. I'd be lynched already. I might find an aggressive player, and try to antagonize him/her. I might also try to avoid making sense, and defend players that others agree are scummy, and have fakeclaims.

Have you actually tried finding the cards yourself?

No, I never bothered, because I assumed that Thesp would have fixed the loophole by now.

[Beep! Beep!]

so if you think that PJ, RW, and Meme are scum, and farside might be a jester...what is the wisdom in lynching farside when you have three other scum suspects?

I am more certain that Farside22 is scum on account of the claim, his night choice, and the fact that he wasn't nightkilled.

I am also more certain that you are the Jester, and not Farside22.

[Beep! Beep!]

it worries me that Beep Beep seems to think Farside being a Jester supports the lynching case.

At this point, I believe that CKD is Jester much, much more than Farside.

However, I would appreciate some other player's insight on the matter. We do need to consider the possibility, until we reach a majority opinion.

Perhaps we might indicate our position like this:

Jester: CKD

[Beep! Beep!]

3. Ross Williams

..
Connecting the dots: "i'm curious about your findings on

Holy

,

Meme

. I had kinda been overlooking her, and now" Two players (Holy and MeMe) also named on farside's short and recent scumlist.

You do understand that RW was asking about my findings on Holy -- not someone's findings on Holy and me both, right? Because that makes your "two players

also

named on farside's scumlist" point oddly made since I'm

not

on RW's scumlist here.

I do understand. But scum often pay attention to each other, positively, or negatively. It's not a huge tell, just something that I note.

3. MeMe

...
MeMe seems to think that there was a possibility that Farside22 may be the Jester.

Back this up, please.

Of course. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 948#930948

[Beep! Beep!]

I thought you meant farside22. I was confused for a minute because you also mentioned QuickBen, but then I read again, and I thought you did mean farside after all. So who did you believe was the Jester then? My predecessor?

[Beep! Beep!]

MeMe, I hope you are not hanging on a small detail that was unclear to dismiss the entirety of my case. If we take away my misconception that you might have thought farside22 was a Jester, we are still left with the following:

"Wishy-washy, lurkerish, keeps being mentioned by Farside22. They also mention Holy a lot along with MeMe, but Holy seems rather noob town, so I believe they are draggin her in the mud as an easy target. Deadline voted Monkey no explanation given. Talitha wrote: "So my vote is staying on farside - my gut just says she is scum. The way MeMe is flirting with voting her, but really doesn't want to be voting her, is suspicious to me too, but that could possibly be paranoia on my part. " Maybe that's why Talitha had to die. Note to self: MeMe also mentioned QuickBen, like RossWilliam did. "

[Beep! Beep!]

Farside22, to whom I ascribe a small probability of being Jester, can be taken care of tonight, or later.

MeMe's analysis is so obviously far off the mark, it gives her away. For instance, I asked Farside22 to list 7 players she felt were suspicious. I never rushed her, or gave a deadline. She could have taken a few days too, if she needed it.

The take home message is that MeMe is giving the scum (a group I believe she might belong to) an "excuse" for the nightkill she might be planning as scum, i.e., by painting me as the Jester. Painted as the Jester, no one would look back at my posts after my death, and wonder if the scum feared I might have hit too many bullseyes, and had to kill me. *Maybe*

Is she considering the possibility that farside22 or CKD might me Jesters? No. Just me. Because I'm in the spotlight, scumhunting to the best of my abilities. It should be clear what is wrong with that.

unvote, vote: MeMe

[Beep! Beep!]

Now farside is a jester who was almost lynched, but claimed Doc to stop the lynch which would have won the game for him.

You bring up a good point, one that I should have thought of, which is, CKD could have claimed a more immediately lynchable role than Doctor. My earlier thought was that farside22 would have claimed Doctor knowing fully that she'd be counterclaimed by the real Doctor.

If she's not Jester, she's just plain scum, maybe she simply hoped to out the real doctor.

[Beep! Beep!]

MeMe, do you always tend to keep out of the limetlight, and if attacked, respond by attacking back? Is that your modus operandi?

Because you weren't so aggressive until I pointed out that I found your behavior scummy. And then, the only person you find worthy of attacking is your attacker, that would be me, at the moment.

saying my case is "so far off the mark" and then only addressing the farside portion is pretty funny -- especially since you did so

incorrectly

.

No, I did not do so incorrectly, even taking your post as evidence. I did ask repeatedly, within minutes, after each of farside's refusals, and CKD's approval of the refusals. But never, ever, did I impose a deadline. Never. If you wanted to refute my point, you had to look to find the post where I demand that farside produce a list within a definite period of time. You did not. Therefore, your refutation is a failure, but I commend you for trying.

I'd appreciate anyone clearly explaining to me why this plan won't work. And, no, saying "she must be scum for suggesting it!" isn't the same thing as disproving its value.

One utterly suspicious aspect of your plan is the timing. Until now you were kinda coasting, sipping margaritas, throwing the occasional pebble at one player, and a softball at another. But now that you are on the hyper-defensive, you are counter-attacking, and proposing plans that depend on night actions, while singing the value of town lynches. Naturally, you have to expect players to be worried.

[Beep! Beep!]

So, you have no problem with the plan? Just with the fact that it's being proposed by me at this time?

It is a HUGE problem though. Besides, I'm sure the scum and the vig are on the lookout for Jester behavior, and don't need to be directed. I don't think it's useful, and as you point out, "roleblocker."

Concerning the case you've made against me, I'll leave it to the other players to decide whether or not it's worthwhile. I trust their judgment.

Let the others weigh in on the value of its content, your timing and choice of target, your change in behavior when one player begins to cast doubt on your townieness, and your sudden urge to coordinate night choices.

[Beep! Beep!]

So, you prefer that the mafia decide its own kill.

THEY WILL.

[Beep! Beep!]

Note to self:

pj or Pooky maybe?

You are asking a player whom I think is your buddy (PJ), and one player whom I think is a townie (Pooky).

[Beep! Beep!]

Note: explain concept of "to self" to B!B! after the game.

LOL

[Beep! Beep!]

Amen?

I was trying to come up with some funny little thing about "the day BM beats MeMe in logic is a sad day indeed..." but I'm just so embarrassed.

One theory is that your logic fell below BM levels.

Another is that you knew what you were doing.

I don't know which to choose.

[Beep! Beep!]

Pooky:

Pooky is an obvious target for investigation, and I do believe that he's been cleared by the dead cop via what seems to be a pretty obvious breadcrumb mixed with some obfuscation to me. It's not impossible, but I doubt scum would be on every wagon. They would pace themselves a little bit more. And he's acting town, IMO.

BM:

Has been useful, passionate, and pro-town. He's on the ball.

Holy:

The length of her posts and their relative infrequency is a little weakish, however, she's blessed with honest common sense, and seems town. She doesn't stand out, except the players I believe are sum keep bringing her up.

PJ:

Scum with a keen sense of observation, attention to detail, and a fluent debating style. Seems to give everyone on my scumlist a free pass. Seems to think everyone I think is town, is scum. How cool is that?

MeMe:

Scum that ran away.

Farside:

Still scum, keeping low profile hoping other wagons will take off.

Ross William:

Still scum, trying hard to be non-confrontanional. Which is effectively working, good strategy. He sure isn't scumhunting.

CKD:

Still Jester. But PJ doesn't want to worry about Jesters, that's OK. CKD is not looking for scum, he's all over the map with contrary opinions, trying to get himself lynched.

[Beep! Beep!]

{Beep! Beep!, Holy, Pooky} all seem intertwined to me – and not in a good way. I would not be surprised one iota if this threesome is all scum together. I do not understand how Beep! Beep! goes from mentioning Pooky has been on "five wagons" to not even giving him a "scum score" based off the voting system.

I continue to believe Pooly is cleared by the cop.

You know why Holy, Pooky and myself might seem connected (I find it odd that you're not including BM, but hey)? Maybe we're all town, how about that? You complain that we're all on the farside22 wagon, and that gives you bad vibes. You know who else voted farside22, by your own account? Yourself, MeMe, and Ross William. By your own logic, all three of you are similarly connected.

Holy has been implicitly defending wolfcrier/Beep! Beep! all game on the basis of "gee, it looks like he is the jester".

Not recently, has she?

Holy is the contingency

There is no reason whatsoever to lynch Holy.

I am honestly not sure what to think about Farside22 at the moment. I am not particularly inclined to believe a second Doctor, but I am becoming less and less enthused by those people who have been attacking her.

But does that mean farside22 is more likely to be town? Remember that MeMe, Ross William and YOURSELF have voted Farside22. You sound like you make sense, but your scum agenda is showing.

The biggest problem with this game is that I do not think anybody is particularly town-looking.

Now, that's something a scum would say: "I do not think anybody is particularly town-looking." I personally think a lot of players are pro-town.

Unvote, vote: petroleumjelly

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep, again, where am I contrayy?

Look at your own posts! You're defending farside (pretending that you deem my case is crap, as if I'm the genius behind this case, when I am simply putting together what others have said.

You keep saying I'm the Jester, when YOU are the Jester.

You said Ross William's play was SO OBVIOUS AS SCUM that he had to be the Jester, then you unvote Ross William "now I cant be sure his horrid play is not purposeful" - But then later you agree with Ross William, who is also defending Farside22 today, like you are. You can't even defend Farside22, he's pretty indefensible, so you attack me instead.

That's right, you come after me... which is totally what a smart Jester would do. Come after a very aggressive and active player, agree with the nonsense arguments made against that player, etc. I told you it's not going to work. Aren't you afraid you're going to be nightkilled, and lose? Hurry up and find some other player that will bite.

Uhh, CKD... grow a brain. Or something.

nice... am I wrong?

Next thing you do is to vote Talitha.

Nice OMGUS vote on PJ too...

It's NOT OMGUS. I've had a hunch PJ was scum, and his recent posting leads me to believe I might be on the right track.

PJ, you dont think Beep is the jester?

To believe that I were the Jester, PJ would have to believe that yesterday, when my predecessor was about to be lynched (and win gloriously, if he were the Jester), that he just gave up. He'd also have to believe that I managed to get myself out of a lynch, being the Jester and all.

[Beep! Beep!]

CKD, PJ just stated how he's gonna play like there's no jester in this game. Even if he thinks Beep is the jester, it's not gonna make him change his opinions on her.

PJ thinks I'm scum, so that PJ's opinion my my being the Jester or not is not relevant.

RW, you have to read between the lines.

CKD is only trying to steer the discussion away from his own Jesterness. That's the reason why he's asking another player to discuss whether or not I'm the Jester. CKD wants to be lynched, but so he needs us to suspect some other player of being Jester. Also, CKD needs to rile up an aggressive player to think he's Mafia and go after him, but not too much that he'd be suspected of being the Jester.

I'm ten steps ahead of CKD.

[Beep! Beep!]

How is Holy town. She was on day 2 talking about the doc. (aka me) still being alive and looking at me the next day, that is so full of WIFOM it isn't even funny.

How is she scum exactly?

[Beep! Beep!]

PJ: yes

Amen! Yes what?

[Beep! Beep!]

How is Holy town. She was on day 2 talking about the doc. (aka me) still being alive and looking at me the next day, that is so full of WIFOM it isn't even funny.

How is she scum exactly?

I pointed out her WIFOM from the day before and her lack of scum hunting in all. Now how is she town because you haven't said why.

WIFOM isn't scummy when you're talking about a player with a redundant Doctor claim, with full doctor powers, that hasn't been nightkilled. That doesnt' mean that Holy is scum, it means that YOU are scum.

Lack of scumhunting? She's weak in that department, but her judgment has been sound. I see weak townie where you see something deserving of a full blown vote.

You're giving me Jester vibes again. You haven't been lynched yet. That in itself is interesting. Either you're scum, or the scumbags want to take out the Jester at night. Other players may have other interpretations.

We should lynch PJ, MeMe, or Ross William.

[Beep! Beep!]

know power

Amen, whaddya mean? In two words or less.

[Beep! Beep!]

1.)

It is possible that we have multiple Doctors with multiple abilities; anybody who was at Thespival probably remembers the "Doctor" game where we had 'sane' and 'insane' Doctors.

That doesn't explain why Farside is still alive. Nor does it explain why he chose to protect a player that was AN UNLIKELY TARGET.

And PJ, of course Pooky isn't talking out loud about his alignment. Of course. We have 3 kills every night. Besides, he'd say "town" no matter what, so I don't get that "point" you believe you are making. You KNOW that Pooky is a good target for cop investigation. You KNOW that a cop will leave breadcrumbs, especially with so many nightkills. Can you find another breadcrumb? Good luck.

You also completely misunderstand my scum points, which is normal, because I don't want to go into details. But it's not based on how many wagons people are on, though it does have some bearing. It's more subtle than that.

And I still don't believe that Pooky pulled that gambit as scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

PJ good point, I just see the jester as an obstacle, but you are right if we kill scum and the jester is still around, we still win.

says the Jester ^^^^^

[Beep! Beep!]

Pooky [...] Not once does he say head-on "I am not scum" or "I am town" when put to the flames. He has done this to me before as well.

If Pooky didn't say: "I am not scum" that doesn't mean Pooky is scum. Statements like "I'm not scum" are totally worthless.

Very strange that you'd make a issue of something so blatantly misleading. It's akin to political spin.

A.)

Both games Pooky has tried a 'gambit' dealing with investigation results;

Pooky didn't accuse anybody in THIS game, so the comparison doesn't hold.

B.)

Both games Pooky has avoided direct questions about his alignment

That is so totally meaningless. If every player in the game was asked whether they're scum or town, they'd all say "town." Do you seriously think that they would be scum if they "hesitated???" That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

C.)

Both games Pooky has had waste of space posts to 'make the game fun' (in this game, his 6 minions, or whatever he is calling them)

Isn't this true in every game Pooky plays in? That's my impression.

I do not know that if alky had a result, he would even breadcrumb it.

It's common sense that a cop would leave breadcrumbs.

[Beep! Beep!]

unvote, vote: Beep Beep

Until she goes into intense detail about how her goddamn scum scores work. I'm tired of her not explaining on the basis of them being too subtle for us to understand. Give us exactly how you formulate. Once I'm satisfied I'll unvote.

No - the reason why I tally these numbers is to find scum, not to show scum how I find them. You want to know how I caught you and your buddies?

Your pressuring me over this is scummy. It is anti-town.

I totally don't mind getting lynched over this. Lynch me with 500 votes if you want. And I'm not even the Jester.

[Beep! Beep!]

OK.

You said that your card had McCoy on it. However, you are a Quack Doctor, unlike the dead McCoy, who was the real McCoy, and the real Doctor. Same card, different roles.

Before, you said that you targeted PJ Night 1, and Ross William Night 2.

But now you say that you targeted mith Night 1, and he died. Night 2, you targeted Sarcastro and he died.

I don't know if you're a Jester, or scum faking Jester.

Coincidentally, the lies you made up about your targets involved two people atop my scumlist, petroleumjelly and Ross William. Or is it a coincidence?

And now you want us to lynch MeMe (yet another player atop my scumlist) and Holy (who keeps getting thrown in for some reason - maybe she is scum after all, I don't know, but if she is I need my scumdar recalibrated).

[Beep! Beep!]

withholding information

Sure is. That's how I find scum, and how I want to be able to continue finding scum. Nobody but me needs to believe in my method. I don't need to make converts. If you don't trust it, that's fine.

Vote me, lynch me over it. I don't care.

[Beep! Beep!]

withholding information

Sure is. That's how I find scum, and how I want to be able to continue finding scum. Nobody but me needs to believe in my method. I don't need to make converts. If you don't trust it, that's fine.

Vote me, lynch me over it. I don't care.

I am sure you would love that

AGAIN, hinting that someone else but you might be the Jester?

Look no further than farside22 for an accusation that might actually stick.

[Beep! Beep!]

vote Beep Beep

, I dont think you are the Jester now.

That's absolutely corect, the Jester is still you (or Farside22), and I'm still not going to go after you.

Farside22 recent claim change is a prime Jester move.

I keep wavering between CKD and Farside22... It's one of these two.

Scum is still PJ, Meme, and Ross William (and CKD or Farside22 maybe too, whichever one isn't the Jester).

[Beep! Beep!]

I disagree with Drip...err, Beep!Beep!

I so called it

I can run but I can't hide, haha. Good job.

[Beep! Beep!]

I am town.

That should be good enough for PJ.

[Beep! Beep!]

Farside22, I would like you to ask the mod whether or not -- if you were a hypothetical Quack Doctor -- you would be able to

kill

scum if you were to protect them.

You're not serious, are you? You think we're going to trust a player with a dubious second doctor claim, that wasn't nightkilled, that lied about night choices, and might as well be the Jester at this point???

confirm vote: PJ

[Beep! Beep!]

battlemage scum too btw

Why, seriously, I've never seen BM make such a positive, and common sense contribution.

[Beep! Beep!]

I hope you know that if you're lying to me, Pooks, my heart will be broken; crushed like a Fabergé egg under a steel-toed boot...

If that's your litmus test for finding scum, you've lost the right to make fun of my scum scores.

[Beep! Beep!]

I think that farside's claim clip flops have been so preposterous that I smell a Jester.

I anyone able to confirm that Farside22 has killed mith and Sarcastro? Because if he truly did, then we know he's not the Jester, and we can just lynch the scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

I anyone able to confirm that Farside22 has killed mith and Sarcastro? Because if he truly did, then we know he's not the Jester, and we can just lynch the scum.

EBWOP

IS

anyone able to confirm that Farside22

[Beep! Beep!]

Farside22,

You are so Jesterishly giddy with your impending lynch, it's gushing through my computer screen like water through a hole in Hoover Dam.

Beep! Beep!

[Beep! Beep!]

If I wanted to get myself lynched.

An Essay by Beep! Beep!

I would claim cop because I am not a cop, or any other role that exists, so that I would be counterclaimed. I would make dubious statements about my own sanity. I would give conflicting information about my night choices. I would try to provoke aggressive players.

Like this: Most Glorious Jester Performance, Lifetime Achievement Award

A+

[Beep! Beep!]

Ross William here is a man of his word, he won't hammer his buddy!

[Beep! Beep!]

scumbiddies = the female form of scumbuddies.

LOL, I like mafiababe quite a bit too, haha.

Ross, you seem to think farside22 is not mafia.

How can you be so bloody sure she's not the Jester?
How can you be so bloody sure she's town?

I am intrigued.

Let see if you can convince me.

[Beep! Beep!]

Ross William,

I'm not arguing with your conclusion, but I would like to understand how you arrived at it a little better.

Is there anything farside22 has done that seems Jester-ish to you?
Is there anything farside22 has done that seems particularly townie to you?
Is there anything farside22 has done that seems particularly scummy to you?

[Beep! Beep!]

yes to all three. still not enough to hammer.

that's no-o-o-o-ot helping...

Can you provide say, one or two examples of specific behavior for each question? It doesn't have to be a long, tedious essay or anything.

[Beep! Beep!]

vigged yesterday

Amen, who vigged who?

[Beep! Beep!]

Amen, but what?

[Beep! Beep!]

has, yes or no?

Are you saying that you know that Sarc was targetted by a vig power?

[Beep! Beep!]

Do you have any indication that he was vigged, or killed by an insane doctor?

[Beep! Beep!]

Ross, I still really want you to answer my questions. Will you? Don't make me start thinking you're scummily evasive.

[Beep! Beep!]

I

vigged.

If a player claimed an already existing role.
If a player claimed another player's kill.
If a player lied about his night choices.
If a player switched his claim from Doc to Quack mid-day.

How much more would he have to do to convince you he's a Jester?

[Beep! Beep!]

Why did hascow say anything earlier when people were confused?

Are you suggesting that hascow may be mafia, jesterside22?

[Beep! Beep!]

Post 1339:

farside scum

vote: farside22

I still need to understand what his motivation may be.

I am not forgetting that Ross William hasn't answered my questions, and I hope he does before the day ends.

[Beep! Beep!]

PJ: Answer this:

If a player claimed an already existing role.
If a player claimed another player's kill.
If a player lied about his night choices.
If a player switched his claim from Doc to Quack mid-day.

How much more would he have to do to convince you he's a Jester?

(I do realize that you'd want him lynched regardless, but I still want your opinion)

[Beep! Beep!]

Farside22 has been on her way to being lynched multiple times; changing her story has been completely unnecessary if she has wanted to be lynched.

I agree, but the changes in the story have been truly preposterous, haven't they? That's where I get hung up. The claim is so humorously outrageous. What do you think? Again I realize does not influence your vote. But I'd like your opinion.

Additionally, you have been accusing CKD of being jester for quite a while. Not sure when you flipped.

Yeah, I keep flipping between CKD and farside22. What am I going to do?

[Beep! Beep!]

Come on peps on to lynching since you will only believe me when I'm lynched.

Jesterlicious, baby.

[Beep! Beep!]

A Vig with a ridiculously hindering PR?

Bullshit.

BM

Hasdagas is not a vig, he gets a surprise power depending on his ability to get players to shout Amen.

I guess he got vig last night. Surprise! He shot a townie.

[Beep! Beep!]

Any particular reason why you're not re-voting Farside22, Battle Mage?

[Beep! Beep!]

At one time I found farside's revelation of quack doctor to be townie, now I find it scummy with has. There's only so much i can believe

I have not made any effort to notice what she's doing thats jesterlike. I'm not letting the jester keep me from hunting scum. The only thing I can think of is when she's constantly throwing up her hands in defeat. That could be jester or scum.

And I'm ready to lynch farside. I was really digging my heels trying to look for some reason not to lynch her, but it's all just too unlikely. It just doesn't seem possible. I'm amazed she's still alive. Remember how close we were to lynching wolfcrier?

Thanks, now I understand your thinking.

[Beep! Beep!]

Since it's likely that hasdagas is town, and there is some controversy as to whether Pooky is cleared or not, I have prepared two more sets of scum scores:

hasdagas as town, Pooky as unknown alignment:

130 PookyTheMagicalBear
100 petroleumjelly
97 RossWilliam
86 MeMe
80 Captain Bandwagon/farside
79 curiouskarmadog
73 BattleMage
45 Holy
40 Amelia
39 Mastermind of Sin
34 Iammars

hasdagas as town, Pooky as town:

149 RossWilliam
119 petroleumjelly
99 Captain Bandwagon/farside
91 MeMe
90 BattleMage
66 CKD
53 Holy
49 Mastermind of Sin
34 Amelia
30 curiouskarmadog
30 Iammars

If anything it will be fun to see at endgame how accurate it was.

[Beep! Beep!]

...unless anyone has anything else pressing to say.

I do!

Do it.

[Beep! Beep!]

Greasy Spot(town) WAGON
mith(town), wolfcrier/BB(town), Sarcastro(town), Monkey(town), Captain Bandwagon/farside(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester), RossWilliam(town)
petroleumjelly
curiouskarmadog
Iammars
Mastermind of Sin

Greasy Spot(town) OFFWAGON
Dani Banani(town), hasdgfas(town), Greasy Spot(town), alko(town)
MeMe/mathcam
BattleMage
petroleumjelly
Holy
QuickBen/ASlay

RossWilliam WAGON
Sarcastro(town), al_kohaulec(town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
Battle Mage
petroleumjelly

JDGA(town) WAGON
Monkey(town), hasdgfa (town), farside22(town), RossWilliam(town)
petroleumjelly

farside WAGON
Sarcastro(town), Talitha (town), al_kohaulec(town), RossWilliam(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
MeMe/mathcam
curiouskarmadog

Beep! Beep!(town) WAGON
hasdgfas(town), Monkey(town), Talitha(town), farside22(town), RossWilliam(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)

Monkey(town) WAGON
al_kohaulec(town), Sarcastro(town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester),
Mastermind of Sin
Holy
MeMe/mathcam

Monkey OFFWAGON
Sarcastro(town) Beep! Beep!(town)
Battle Mage
curiouskarmadog
QB/ASlay
Iammars
petroleumjelly

farside22 (town) WAGON
hasdgfas(town), RossWilliam(town),
Holy
MeMe/Mathcam
Mastermind of Sin
curiouskarmadog
Battle Mage

farside22 (town) OFFWAGON
Beep! Beep!(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
Iammars
AmeliaSlay
petroleumjelly

SCUM SCORES, hasdagas as town:

248 petroleumjelly
123 MeMeMe/mathcam
115 curiouskarmadog
110 BattleMage
78 Mastermind of Sin
78 Iammars
75 CKD
73 Holy
73 Amelia

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep Beep- could you please explain your scum scores in more detail.

Yep.

Example:

RossWilliam WAGON

Sarcastro(town), al_kohaulec(town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
Battle Mage
petroleumjelly

I assume that there was some scum on the RossWilliam wagon. Although - I know see that we've had some wagons in this game that were made up of only townies. That's rare, but nothing is impossible, I am looking at probabilities, not absolute, despite accurate-lookingi numbers.

In the above example, we have a wagon on a townie with 5 players. Not a huge wagon, may or not have scum on that one, but I assign the unconfirmed alignment players on that wagon 50 points each (1/2 * 100)

What this method emphasizes is that scum is expected to "distribute" itself on wagons, and points to unconfirmed-alignment players that remain after the other players have had their alignments revealed as town. PJ's sin is to be much too often one of the few remaining players on wagons where most other players have been confirmed town.

Since you know your own alignment, I can make the same exercise, marking you down as town, and the scores would change. See:

Assuming BM is town:
283 petroleumjelly
108 MeMeMe/mathcam
100 curiouskarmadog
83 Iammars
83 Amelia
58 Mastermind of Sin
58 Holy

What if PJ was town?
145 BattleMage
128 MeMeMe/mathcam
103 curiouskarmadog
86 Mastermind of Sin
83 Iammars
78 Holy
75 Amelia

[Beep! Beep!]

We have now lost 10/21 players. We got rid of the Jester, but we have no scum so far.

We have also lost mucho power roles.

I'm just vanilla, and I'm expendable, so lynch me today if that's what you think is best. But we are now 11, and there may be up to 3 kills per night, so that tomorrow me might be as few as 7 players, against possibly 4 living scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

so basically it punishes people who vote alot?

Occasionally the pool of "off-wagon" voters can be used, because one would expect some scum to hid in there.

What is does punish, say, on Day 4, is the sole remaining unconfirmed-alignment player on a given wagon. Or the sole remaining unconfirmed-alignment player voting OFF a wagon.

It only works when there has been a large enough number of wagons, that's why I like to replace, it's the best situation to use this method.

[Beep! Beep!]

probable scum

vote: CKD

What are your reasons? Please explain in two words or less.

Amen!

BTW, please don't break your restrictions, the town is pretty power-poor and outscummed at the moment.

[Beep! Beep!]

Tracked or watched? Amen! Ahem!

[Beep! Beep!]

At last, a breakthrough!

Amen, and I mean it!

I looked through CKD's posts to see if he might have been a vig. If he was a vig, he would have shot me down, not Pooky. Pooky was killed by scum.

vote: CKD

[Beep! Beep!]

you broke your PR once before..I think it is time to break it again.

NO. He'll have to make do with two words. No way we're going to waste a power role. Amen!

[Beep! Beep!]

As for MeMecam, I've read through all of their posts, and I honestly don't see anything scummy about them. However, I am horrible at analyzing posts for such things, due to the unfortunate curse of being able to see most arguments from both sides.

Even I agree with you on that question; however, some players that may be clever that way, can still be caught by voting pattern.

[Beep! Beep!]

C) Telling has to break his pr, well, I think it's pretty much been said by cam and pj.

It should be pointed out that PJ preferred that hasdagas break his PR today, while mathcam and myself were adamant that hasdagas should not break his PR. Small detail.

[Beep! Beep!]

I can go with this today, but tomorrow we defo kill Beep Beep, k?

Thanks, you're a pal!

(In fact, the only way it becomes skewed is if somebody relies on voting patterns way too much. And yes, this is a direct reference to Beep! Beep!).

You are wrong. Yesterday I voted forfarside22, a player who was not particularly high on my list, on account of role claim and role name information.

I can definitely see CKD as scum; and it certainly is not inconsistent with being scum

with

Beep! Beep! They have each called each other the Jester, and essentially avoided commenting on each other in detail by falling back on this.

That comment is vastly misleading. He called me Jester because he was scum, it turns out; but I called him Jester because he was soooooooooooooo scum I thought he might have been doing it on purpose. Especially towards the end of the day. In fact I was hoping CKD would be vigged, or caught in crossfire, from my having pointed out his Jesterishness.

I also agree with mathcam that you laid pretty sweet and low most the the game, until I started to suspect you, PJ. And this morning, you come out of the barn kicking and shouting orders, trying to gain control of the populace, and trying to appear pro-town.

However, you slipped up quite a bit on your own banana peels, encouraging hasdagas to break his PR, pointing your guns at me (for having dared to find you scummy), and demanding that 3 people analyze Amelia, but not asking anybody to analyze YOU.

[Beep! Beep!]

Well, you are about ready to lose a power role...so I suggest you calm down and remove some votes and actually have conversation today?

Not unless you claim.

[Beep! Beep!]

Show the breadcrumbs.

I don't believe has would pull this off. Because we'll hang him tomorrow if he's wrong, and he knows it. So I don't believe you, and I believe has.

[Beep! Beep!]

R

W, I agree.

B

eep Beep, your theory is that because the mafia didnt kill farside this proves that he is scum?

R

eally?

B

ecause wouldnt it be a good idea for the mafia to target someone else and push to kill farside today?

R

ight, why are you dismissing that fact?

B

etter to wait a bit to see what information Pooky provides, for a have a feeling my vote is going to change.

That's a pretty late game breadcrumb. Do you have breadcrumbs for other roles scattered in your posts? You've given yourself a pretty wide time frame for breadcrumbing. I suspect you might have some backup plans.

[Beep! Beep!]

Why RW?
Why Talitha?
Why Talitha?

Why not me?

[Beep! Beep!]

2.)

Despite you claiming to not rely on your scum scores, you sure go out of your way to post them. You are relying too much on them both for your suspicions so far as I am concerned, as well as to make it seem like you are putting effort into the game.

Seem? Seem??? Seem like putting effort into the game???

It takes me hours to make these calculations, thank you very much.

And I don't need to show and tell how you've been laying low. Everyone has noticed that you totally changed tone since I pointed to you as possible scum.

Regardless of CKD's alignment, I do not think his breadcrumb was particularly weak.

The weakness is in the TIMING of the breadcrumb. Why was it not early in the game? Who breadcrumbs on Day 3? Scum. Why did he choose to roleblock Talitha??? She wasn't scummy at all. But she is dead, and she cannot contradict. Ross William is also dead.

Day 3 breadcrumb and all dead targets = scum.

hasdgfas just solidified the lynching of Farside22 yesterday by claiming to have killed Sarcastro last night

Actually, hasdagas seemed to be very conscious of the possibility of there being a double-kill.

If he thought he were going to come under pressure today with the off-chance of being lynched, he really might as well

take down another player in the process

.

But hasdagas is in no such danger - not even close.

[Beep! Beep!]

1.)I have been even more vocal today because I have been particularly pissed at how terribly the town has been doing

Maybe. But the coincidence casts doubt on your affirmation.

2.) hasdgfas being "open" to double-kills is only natural if he is scum.

Unless I don't understand what you are saying, you appear to be incorrect. hasdagas said he had a one-shot vig. I see no contradiction.

3.) Putting "effort" into making scores for voting patterns is not effort towards finding scum

It is very labor-intensive, and it IS effort in finding scum. I don't think you'll recruit many players to your opinion.

4.) I completely agree that the weakest portion of CKD's claim is his timing, and the fact that he has claimed to have targeted dead people. The point of my post was to attack what I considered to be bad reasoning: namely, that his method of crumbing was "weak", something I very much disagree with.

You choose to attack BM's crap argument, which is that the breadcrumb itself might have been faked. It's preposterous, and I ignored it for the red herring that it is. The core of the argument, and that's the only part you should discuss instead of BM's non-issue, is that he claimed to have breadcrumbed on Day 3, having roleblocked dead, non-scummy players.

5.) hasdgfas is in "no such danger" precisely because he claimed before anybody could put him under pressure.

That is patently absurd.

[Beep! Beep!]

I will be away from March 13 - 17. By the time I return (March 18), I fully expect everybody to have finished the assignments I have given.

I agree that people should give their opinion and that discussion is desirable.

However, we have caught CKD scum.

And your list of assignments is quite simply ridiculous.

(1) You have omitted yourself from the list of persons to analyze.
(2) Amelia gets special treatment and needs to be analyzed by two different players.
(3) Holy and Battle Mage have no assignment.
(4) My opinion is expressly not sollicited, and you know that I think you are scum.
(5) Your distribution of task is uneven, biased and has no rhyme or reason.
(6) If people follow this list of assignments, it is my belief that they are playing in the hands of PJ-scum.
(7) mathcam is completely justified in refusing to participate.

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep! Beep!, since when did you go from claiming mathcam and I were scum together to defending mathcam from me? Then give me your reasoning.

mathcam's decision is the correct one to take if he is a townie. Therefore I cannot be said to be defending mathcam from you. Additionally, you are scummier than mathcam. More so since the day started.

[Beep! Beep!]

As PenguinsoftheSerengeti in Lights Out 2, you actually played a more thought-out game, and you were town.

Was I not lynched very early in that game, like the 3rd lynch on day 1? That means that a lot of players found me very scummy. And they were wrong, as you are now, but then again, now you are very likely scum.

mathcam is absolutely

not

justified in not giving his opinion. In fact, if he does not have his analyses done by the time I return from Arizona, I will make it my sworn duty to attack him at every turn in an attempt to lynch him.

That would be very clever bus'ing, haha, I look forward to seeing it. I hope players won't be fooled at endgame.

[Beep! Beep!]

Gawsh, I just keep forgetting how incredibly

scummy

it is to ask people to

give opinions

.

The unfair, biased, uneven, and bossy manner of your proceeding is what makes it scummy.

You give a very strong impression of carrying out, perforce, some agenda on the rest of the players, rather than looking for scum. Your list of assignments is not what I would call looking for scum.

Promising to hound mathcam (whether or not he's your buddy) for his very reasonable refusal to cooperate with your orders is also indicative of you carrying out a scum agenda, trying to cow us into submissiveness, or bus'ing or framing mathcam. It's not a good sign.

[Beep! Beep!]

Amen!

I believe hasgfas, I don't believe CKD, can we lynch him please?

[Beep! Beep!]

The kind of frustration that CKD is experimenting appears genuine. I have done exactly that myself, several times, out of frustration.

I will give him breathing room.

Also our replacement hasn't read yet.

unvote

[Beep! Beep!]

mathcam is acting protown, but that doesn't mean that he is.

CKD, mathcam is not voting for you, nor has he unvoted for you, unless I missed something somewhere. I'm the one that unvoted you.

I still doubt that has is scum, though, I have a hard time reconciling the two players' contradictory accounts.

[Beep! Beep!]

I am hugely impressed with the depth and apparent accuracy of PJ's post.

I agree with the MoS kick in the pants, he should be looked at with a fine tooth comb tomorrow.

Having seen CKD go down the drain as an innocent in Heroes Smalltown, I see a repeat performance here.

I'm going to do something brazen.

vote: hasdagas

[Beep! Beep!]

Opportunist.

vote: mathcam

[Beep! Beep!]

The opportunity may not be new. This sentence caught my attention:

"Maybe I've just fallen into a self-fulfilling prophecy with ckd's posts"

Care to explain in more depth? What is it about his posts?

[Beep! Beep!]

mathcam, PJ, is there no scenario where the two players may be town?

I feel pretty strongly that CKD's reaction is town, but I reckon this is only on account of meta information from Heroes Smalltown.

No other reason.

[Beep! Beep!]

NB: Voting scum is not a scumtell. Or do you think Mathcam is bussing?

Actually, no. Or maybe. I don't know.

PJ's meta-mod-analysis makes sense. However, I have a problem believing hasdagas would invent such a preposterous role.

My own meta on CKD is that I think he might be town. I may be wrong, he might be faking it.

But I don't think things are as clearcut as they were this morning.

Since the line that separates hasdagas from CKD has become more fuzzy, I find that mathcam's revote is somewhat tainted by a possible agenda to take off the fuzz, and lead the town one way, rather than another.

I may be wrong, but I thought I should point out the possibility.

[Beep! Beep!]

I thought there might be a bus-driver or some other mechanic that screws up results, and I'm more than a little embarrassed that I had not considered the possibility of 2 scumgroups, perhaps because we have caught no scum so far.

[Beep! Beep!]

Anything else?

[Beep! Beep!]

I looked up MGIA.

MGIA Michigan Green Industry Association
MGIA Multi-Grid Iterative Approach

Which is it?

[Beep! Beep!]

player Michigan Green Industry Association

-or-

player Multi-Grid Iterative Approach

[Beep! Beep!]

My scumdar swings like a pendulum in this game.

unvote, vote: CKD

[Beep! Beep!]

need Amens.

You do? Mazel Tov! Amen!

[Beep! Beep!]

If CKD is town, mathcam and PJ must die.

[Beep! Beep!]

Only scum is ever really sure.

[Beep! Beep!]

Amen!

Yeah you're right, mathcam, thanks for pointing it out. You are, in fact, scummier than PJ.

If CKD is town, I willkick myself for not having more faith in my meta of the guy. Kick myself really hard. Dang it.

And if he's town, we have to look at who was firmer in wanting to lynch him, who gave him the least chance, etc., keeping their play style in mind.

I will look more carefully later, I have RL things to tend to, but right off the bat, I would say that you were, in your usual self-controlled, logical manner, the player who most stood out of his own playstyle to make sure that CKD was lynched.

[Beep! Beep!]

needs posters

You need more post? Amen for that. If I'm correct.

[Beep! Beep!]

FOS Holy, BTW. Not as sure she's town as I once was.

[Beep! Beep!]

Amen!

unvote

[Beep! Beep!]

I bet that NEITHER hasdagas or CKD are scum.

vote: mathcam

-

He's a very analytic player. I bet this guy has no scumtells. Only very subtle ones, and I think I detected one. There is no hope that I could ever convince anyone. No one will follow me on this wagon, not the town, not the scum - but that's what I truly believe. You heard it from me first. MeMe's voting pattern was scummy, and now mathcam is "mathcam-scummy." This player slot is scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

Ummm... Uhhh... Amen?

still got nothin

What are you talking about? Your lack of paying attention is passively, but distinctly anti-town.

[Beep! Beep!]

I wonder how many votes it would take to make a gnome sing... Amen!

[Beep! Beep!]

You have now gotten the opportunity to see CKD's reaction upon thinking he was lynched.

What is your opinion now?

[Beep! Beep!]

If you could believe that, you should be able to believe he can post a fake bah post.

CKD sounds sincere. You do not.

[Beep! Beep!]

If you thought his rant was sincere, why did you vote for him?

I vacillated in my conviction.

[Beep! Beep!]

I am not liking the timing and lack of reasoning of Holy's vote.

Mod, can we please prod CKD? Thanks

[Beep! Beep!]

DGB, why do you want CKD prodded?

I want CKD to give us his input about the players on his wagon, and the timing of their votes.

[Beep! Beep!]

But I didn't vote before now, because I wanted to know more about others stance regarding CKD vs Hasd case, so they cannot twist it tomorrow...

Please elaborate. What do you mean, know more about the others' stance? It sounds like you wanted to follow the majority on purpose. If you took a firm stance early, why do you fear twisting? What kind of twisting did you expect?

[Beep! Beep!]

I very much doubt this. If you

actually

endorsed this, you might have bothered to take note that CKD thinks I am town -- however, you instead conclude that "PJ and mathcam are scum"

Yeah, that's the kind of comment that he made that led me to believe that he's town, that that you're scum. In other words, he's wrong about your alignment. And if he's wrong about your alignment, you want him lynched. And since I believe that both CKD and hasdagas may be town, your analysis can look good because you don't care which townie goes down the toilet.

Yes I am changing my mind a lot. But we have not hit a single scum yet, and tonight, we're probably losing another 3 townies.

[Beep! Beep!]

Having one's vote taken away makes the game very boring for the robbed player.

Have fun...

[Beep! Beep!]

Your persistent efforts to discredit me are transparent, scumbag. I believe some of the nightkills were specifically made to show me wrong... so that the remaining scum on my list looks good.

[Beep! Beep!]

But hey, I have to admit I let CKD play with my heartstrings. Never again. My wounded soul will forever be deaf to his cries of agony.

[Beep! Beep!]

You calling everybody who calls out your logic a "scumbag" is only shooting yourself in the foot.

Lynch me. That way, we can BOTH be pathetically wrong.

[Beep! Beep!]

1813 scummy

OK, vote for me and lynch me.

[Beep! Beep!]

The problem, my dearest goofball, is that I may need to lynch MGIA first. If he is scum and steals another vote overnight, then the town could easily be put into a {3 votes} v {3 votes} situation, or worse.

Then nightkill me. Please.

[Beep! Beep!]

The problem, my dearest goofball, is that I may need to lynch MGIA first. If he is scum and steals another vote overnight, then the town could easily be put into a {3 votes} v {3 votes} situation, or worse.

Then nightkill me. Please.

I'll put it on my "list of things to do", then.

Thanks. Don't disappoint me.

[Beep! Beep!]

ZzZ

zz

zzz

zz

z

Z

Z

Z

ZZzzZzZ

z

zZ

z

zZzz

no vote

no night action

Z

Z

ZZ

Z

Z

ZZ

Z

Zz

ZzzZzzZ

zzz

Z

Zz

z

zZ

[Beep! Beep!]

BEEP: Man, it must have taken forever to size and color those z's the way you wanted to. Maybe you could devote that greater than or equal to that much time to sharing your thoughts on who's scummiest? Look at this way -- if you can convince MGIA to listen to your choice of targets, you have double the strength of your vote from yesterday!

I already said how I thought was scummy but I can't get anything right, right?

I don't think MGIA asked for my opinion. I don't think he cares. He's on his own.

Coloring z's is more fun.

[Beep! Beep!]

EBWOP of boredom:

I mean WHO not HOW.

[Beep! Beep!]

Lynch PJ for crying out loud.

[Beep! Beep!]

Knowing others' stance (their analysis) regarding "hot" issues or any issues, basically means knowledge about their process of thinking, in the end it's quite helpful when we need to compare which player likely pro-town or actually deceitful when re-reading them.

I've made my views known aplenty. Go back and read.

There was a thread somewhere about broken roles... I think vote-stealer should top the list.

Greasy Spot(town) WAGON

mith(town), wolfcrier/BB(town), Sarcastro(town), Monkey(town), Captain Bandwagon/farside(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester), RossWilliam(town)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
Mastermind of Sin(SCUM)
*** petroleumjelly
*** Iammars

There is already 2 scum on this wagon. Unlikely that there would be a third or fourth.
Therefore, PJ and Mars get fifty townie points each.

Greasy Spot(town) OFFWAGON

Dani Banani(town), hasdgfas(town), Greasy Spot(town), alko(town)
*** BattleMage
*** MeMe/mathcam
*** Holy
*** QuickBen/ASlay

A lot of the voters off the GS wagon are not alignment-confirmed. Twenty five scumpoints a piece.

RossWilliam WAGON

Sarcastro(town)
al_kohaulec(town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
*** Battle Mage
*** petroleumjelly

Small wagon on a townie. There may be one scum there. Fifty scum points each.

JDGA(town) WAGON

Monkey(town), hasdgfa(town), farside22(town), RossWilliam(town)
*** petroleumjelly

Last remaining player, no known scum. A hundred points to PJ.

farside22 (town) WAGON

Sarcastro(town), Talitha (town), al_kohaulec(town), RossWilliam(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
*** MeMe/mathcam

There is already one scum here, twenty-five points to mathcam.

Monkey(town) WAGON

al_kohaulec(town), Sarcastro(town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester),
Mastermind of Sin(SCUM)
*** Holy
*** MeMe/mathcam

There is already one scum here, twenty-five points to Holy and mathcam.

Last minute townie wagon, I bet there is one other scum there, but because it was deadline, I will lower the points. Fifteen points each to Holy and mathcam.

Monkey OFFWAGON

Sarcastro(town) Beep! Beep!(town)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
*** Battle Mage
*** QB/ASlay
*** Iammars
*** petroleumjelly

Offwagon... one scum already. My gut tells me more scum off the wagon than on the wagon. Deadline and all.
Twenty points to all four players.

farside22 (town) WAGON

hasdgfas(town)
RossWilliam(town)
Mastermind of Sin(SCUM)
***curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
*** Holy
*** MeMe/Mathcam
*** Battle Mage

Two scum here. Thirty-three townie points each.

farside22 (town) OFFWAGON

Beep! Beep!(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
*** Iammars
*** AmeliaSlay
*** petroleumjelly

No known scum hiding off wagon? Fifty scumpoints each.

petroleumjelly -50+50+100+20+50 TOTAL=170
Amelia +25+20+50 TOTAL=95
BattleMage +25+50+20-33 TOTAL=62
MeMeMe/mathcam +25+25+25+15-33 TOTAL=57
Holy +25+25+15-33 TOTAL=32
Iammars -50+20+50 TOTAL=20

You can just ignore the above, or shoot down. What's your pleasure?

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep: I think there's some pretty good info there, even if I find the numerical assignments somewhat arbitrary. How come only 6 people got rankings, and one of them is dead?

Yes, they are somewhat arbitrary and colored by my own experience playing scum. Which one is dead? Amelia is replaced, not dead. Is that who you meant or someone else?

I consider hasdagas town so he's not included. I know my own alignment, so I include myself as town.

[Beep! Beep!]

Hey PJ, you've said a million times that I am scum.

You've looked at my analysis and you get all retentive, pretend not to understand it, and completely miss the point. You are obscenely misrepresenting the reasons why you got scumpoints.

Put your money where your mouth is and demand that other players lynch me.

Why aren't you voting for me?

Come on, lynch me. What's another townie lynch for you?

[Beep! Beep!]

PJ makes a really good point that Beep should have looked at his post and re-evaluated her numbers...I see no reason not to. That's what I would have done, anyway. If I screw up and someone points it out, I fix it.

Yeah, but PJ is scum. Why should I listen?

[Beep! Beep!]

You missed people voting on the RossWilliam-wagon, including CKD-scum, which is pretty damned important.

It wouldn't change the conclusion from that wagon, maybe the amount of scumpoints, but they'd still stick to the same players.

You give people "scum points" for not helping lynch Monkey and Farside22 without considering that it may be because they are actually voting scum instead of a townsperson

No, you just don't get it. They don't get points for not lynching Monkey. Everything stems from my belief that you'll almost never have a wagon without scum, and that you'll almost never have a whole scumgroup loading itself on a wagon, especially a townie wagon.

your "numbers" has no way to account for competing wagons.

More blahblah about motives for joining a wagon.

All of this is irrelevant f what I am looking at is the tendency for scum to distribute itself evenly on-wagon and off-wagon. The reasons they give are fluff.

Additionally, you are trying to portray your numbers as objective...

They are.

you being town to begin with.

Because that's MY way for ME to find scum. Note that I also put hasdagas in the town column, and removed him from the analysis, too.

I am striking the bulls-eye

You are more clever than me. But you are scum just the same.

I made it clear quite a while ago why I am not voting for you right now. I should not have to repeat myself.

You should. It's ridiculous for you not to.

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep! Beep!, that is such a terrible post. Things you need to do before anybody should even consider your "scores" (and this is not even bothering with the more substantive critiques about your

method

, just the information you are clearly omitting):

1.)

Include MGIA/tyhess.

Pointless, I assume he's town.

2.)

Include Battle Mage as dead and town.

Adjusted and done, but it does not change conclusions.

3.)

Show the RossWilliam off-wagon.

No, it was too small a wagon. The net is too wide here.

5.)

Show the JDGA off-wagon.[/quote]No,

4.)

Show that the

RossWilliam wagon had CKD-scum and wolfcrier (you).

Adjusted, conclusion unchanged.

5.)

Show the JDGA off-wagon.

No, it was too small a wagon. The net is too wide here.

6.)

Show the Farside22 off-wagon.

No, it was too small a wagon. The net is too wide here.

7.)

Splitting 100 points for every wagon without a scum on it is loading the game; not all wagons are equal. You are willing to adjust for the "deadline wagon", why not other wagons?

You do your own analysis and draw your own conclusions. I don't have INFINITE time.

8.)

I do not agree that you should even split

less

points for the deadline bandwagon.

This game has different deadline wagons because we do not need to reach any number of votes to lynch; we only need somebody to have the "most" votes.

If it were necessary to reach a certain amount of votes, it would be understandable, but

not

in this context. A last-minute deadline wagon is the best way for a scum to help one of their partners avoid being lynched. If anything, your analysis ought to give more scum points for hopping on a deadline wagon.

I disagree. If you're scum, and there are enough townies on the wagon, you don't bother compromising yourself. And the scum knows that the townies will lynch at the end of the day.

[

9.)

Make a separate "analysis" without the assumption that you are town.

That's YOUR job, not mine. I found my scum, which is you. You find yours. If it's me, have my lynched.

1. Farside22
Second full doc claim. Was not nightkilled. Chose to protect a player unlikely to be targeted.

2. Ross Williams
On account of vote analysis. Also: Ross William wrote the following: "Yes, I am interested in hunting scum. But other than pressuring has to break his post restriction, I haven't done much yet" on Jan 28. His excuse is noobness. Connecting the dots: "i'm curious about your findings on Holy, Meme. I had kinda been overlooking her, and now" Two players also named by farside. This is why he voted farside: "pooky, i get what your saying, and i'm glad you spelled it out, because i wouldn't have thought of that, and now that I see it, it's enough to make me vote farside. I feel really bad cause you just replaced into a really bad spot, and didn't really have much chance to change things, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Sorry farside." This post: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 260#929260 also very strange.

Greasy Spot(town) WAGON

mith(town), wolfcrier/BB(town), Sarcastro(town), Monkey(town), Captain Bandwagon/farside(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester), RossWilliam(town)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
Mastermind of Sin(SCUM)
*** petroleumjelly
*** Iammars

There is already 2 scum on this wagon. Unlikely that there would be a third or fourth.
Therefore, PJ and Mars get fifty townie points each.

Greasy Spot(town) OFFWAGON

Dani Banani(town), hasdgfas(town), Greasy Spot(town), alko(town), BattleMage(town)
*** MeMe/mathcam
*** Holy
*** QuickBen/ASlay

A lot of the voters off the GS wagon are not alignment-confirmed. 33 scumpoints a piece.

RossWilliam WAGON

Sarcastro(town)
al_kohaulec(town),
Battle Mage (town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
CKD (SCUM)
*** petroleumjelly

Small wagon on a townie. Twenty-five scum points to PJ.

JDGA(town) WAGON

Monkey(town), hasdgfa(town), farside22(town), RossWilliam(town)
*** petroleumjelly

Last remaining player, no known scum. A hundred points to PJ.

farside22 (town) WAGON

Sarcastro(town), Talitha (town), al_kohaulec(town), RossWilliam(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
*** MeMe/mathcam

There is already one scum here, twenty-five points to mathcam.

Monkey(town) WAGON

al_kohaulec(town), Sarcastro(town),
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester),
Mastermind of Sin(SCUM)
*** Holy
*** MeMe/mathcam

Last minute townie wagon, I bet there is one other scum there, but because it was deadline, I will lower the points. Fifteen points each to Holy and mathcam.

Monkey OFFWAGON

Sarcastro(town) Beep! Beep!(town), Battle Mage(town)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
*** QB/ASlay
*** Iammars
*** petroleumjelly

Offwagon... one scum already. My gut tells me more scum off the wagon than on the wagon. Deadline and all.
Twenty points to all three players.

farside22 (town) WAGON

hasdgfas(town)
RossWilliam(town)
Battle Mage (town)
Mastermind of Sin(SCUM)
curiouskarmadog(SCUM)
*** Holy
*** MeMe/Mathcam

Two scum here. Thirty-three townie points each.

farside22 (town) OFFWAGON

Beep! Beep!(town)
PookyTheMagicalBear(Jester)
*** Iammars
*** AmeliaSlay
*** petroleumjelly

No known scum hiding off wagon? Fifty scumpoints each.

TOP THREE:

petroleumjelly 178
Amelia 103
MeMeMe/mathcam 40

[Beep! Beep!]

Furthermore, a question on your method:

Do you believe that every wagon has a scum on it? Your analysis certainly seems to assume as much.

Every wagon *tends* to have some scum on it, yes. There are no absolutes, I think of it as a bell curve.

[Beep! Beep!]

10.)

Include the CKD-wagon.

11.)

Include the CKD off-wagon.

Well. That's a tougher one because it's recent and fewer of the players have had their alignments revealed.

curiouskarmadog - 5 (hasdgfas (1) (assumed town), Battle Mage (2)(town), Mathcam (5), petroleumjelly (7), Holy (9)).

AGAIN, I believe that at least one scum jumped on that bandwagon. Maybe even two, since the scum is doing so well, they can afford to bus big time to earn some late game town cred. And guess what, it's my top three acting up again, mathcam, PJ and Holy.

Off-wagon, we have Iammars voting for a towne, CKD(SCUM) voting for a townie, me voting for a presumed scum (mathcam), MOS (SCUM) and Mizzy.

We have TWO known scum off wagon, and no player that I consider scummy off-wagon. So I'm edging my bets that the rest of the scum, is on the CKD wagon. No way in the world that CKD wasn't bus'ed by a least one buddy.

It's between mathcam PJ and Holy. Which one (or two?) bus'ed CKD?

[Beep! Beep!]

PJ, are you getting it all wrong on purpose?

Say, no one pays attention at all to my analysis. Why do you spend so much time debunking it? Am I influencing anyone? Er, last I checked, I wasn't.

Is it because I am right? If I were right, would it bug you? Like, a lot?

Why don't you ignore me, and find your own scum with your superior means? That would be fine by me. I am influencing no one. I am sure that you, being the cleverer of the two of us, will influence the rest of the players far more effectively than I could ever hope to, especially since I don't have a bloody vote.

Show me how it's done.

[Beep! Beep!]

I am not so much claiming that she is "doctoring" her numbers as she is clearly omitting particular things which ought not be omitted. And in a very real sense she

is

doctoring her numbers;

So I am, but I am not? Exactly, but completely different?

I get "100 scum points" because I voted for Beep! Beep! and everybody else on her wagon was town.

Exactly! That's how it works. As scum, it's safe to join a wagon when you have a great bug bunch of townies on it. In insist that this is largely true.

Also, I very much

do

want to lynch Beep! Beep! today. I've wanted wolfcrier/JDGA/Beep! Beep! lynched since about Day Two. (...) if there is some compelling reason to believe Beep! Beep! is town.

There is no compelling reason NOT to lynch me, and there are none marching over the horizon. I am vanilla, so I'm screwed. I have no night action to prove myself or to be proven by others. I don't even have a vote. I am a completely useless player, everything I say is wrong anyway, the way I find scum is utter and complete rubbish and there is not value to it. I am the PERFECT lynch for today. No better alternative will show up. So why not stop waste everyone's time, scumbag, and lynch me? Are you gingerly waiting for others to be swayed by your arguments before considering it safe to put me at minus one or hammer me?

I think a large reason people are not listening to Beep! Beep! is that myself and others have so strongly objected to everything about it...

Good job scum in the discreditation department. Scummie nominations forthcoming.

I also make a case for exactly why I believe Beep! Beep! is scum.

It's funny. All I see is a scumbag exploiting a vulnerable, vanilla, voteless townie.

In conversing with her, my chances increase that if she is in fact scum, that I will be able to locate her partner(s)

Yeah. That is BS. I am town, you in fact KNOW it, and you know that the only scum revealed by my lynch is going to be YOU.

Amen!

[Beep! Beep!]

And PJ I can just see you at night, deciding who to kill. I couldn't help but notice how every kill was designed to knock a player off my list. Why NK Ross Williams, for example? Was he a threat to the scum? No... but he had been topping of my list. Why didn't the scum kill PJ instead, if they wanted to prove me wrong - PJ is much more active and dangerous than Ross Williams? Because PJ IS scum.

The scum has been setting it up at night to prove me wrong.

Now you're doing it in broad daylight.

[Beep! Beep!]

CKD waffling.

Vote: Beep! Beep!

Seiouisly, you think I would have waffled like this if CKD had been my buddy?

But thanks for the vote.

I expect Holy and matchcam to finish me off. And why not MGIA with my own vote.

Come on. Amen. More votes please.

[Beep! Beep!]

4.)

Suggesting that I would have killed RossWilliams simply to discredit you takes the cake. "Conspiracy theories" are complete crap.

Why hasn't hasdgfas died when he has claimed a JoaT many days ago? Why is the vote stealer still alive? Why is mathcam/MeMe still alive?

Answer:

who cares

? The scum kill somebody every night, and we largely don't know why until after the game is over.

And why not. Why are you suggesting that we ignore this information?

Your painting it as a "conspiracy theory" is just another way to discredit me. I'll be sooooooooo happy when I'm dead, and everyone can see that I am town, and that you are soooooooooo scum.

Please hurry and do not delay my lynch.

[Beep! Beep!]

giving up?

Please lynch PJ tomorrow. Vig him if you can. I can see right through what he's doing. I hope you will, too.

[Beep! Beep!]

How many amens do you need to get a vig kill?

[Beep! Beep!]

Your known views will be read again, don't worry

I'm pretty sure they will be completely ignored after you lynch me as much as they are now while I am alive.

Where's your vote, Holy? Come on, vote to lynch me. Show us that you're scum as my model predicts.

[Beep! Beep!]

There's one out of 5 votes on you, Beep. This last-ditch appeal to sympathy is even less believable than ckd's.

I don't care, the scum won. Lynch me and find out just how spectarly. BTW there are 2 votes on me, not one. Three more are needed. Hurry please.

Hey mathcam I hope you are getting accustomed to my unique playstyle, too.

[Beep! Beep!]

Hm, I guess your formula based from 100/players. Have you proven your theory on your other games? I don't think your formula is effective to detect scum though, because I don't remember you ever mention MoS as your suspect based from your calculations before this. It proved fails, don't you think?.

It has, but the games are ongoing, though I am dead in them. I reckon MoS was a middle pack suspect, CKD was higher on the list. But MoS is like PJ. Them both are slippery ones.

If you think it proved "fails" do show everyone that you are scum and vote for me without further ado.

MGIA can then drop in and hammer me with my own vote.

BTW Holy, how is YOUR method for finding scum? Is is better than mine? Do you think that anyone that doesn't find scum in a manner that is approved by PJ is scum? It's my method, I like it, and I believe it to be effective.

Lynch me for it, scumbag. I dare you.

[Beep! Beep!]

Harumph, why I am still alive?

Come on people, you all want to see PJ being dead wrong, don't you? The faster you lynch me the faster it's going to happen!

I would have voted myself already if I had a vote.

[Beep! Beep!]

Harumph, why I am still alive?

Because there's not a general consensus that you're scum?

There should be a concensus to prove PJ wrong.

I have to admit that the two possible outcomes being that we either get rid of scum or get to see PJ being dead wrong has some appeal.

You're going to see PJ dead wrong. Since I'm bored voteless vanilla, proving PJ dead wrong is my own personal win condition.

Well, this was a pretty worthless post

And here's another!

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep! Beep!, if you are town, I am going to ask that you ask to be replaced. If you are scum, feel free to flail around some more.

No, I will disobey your orders, and I am going to flail around some more. I do want to see you being proven wrong quite badly.

[Beep! Beep!]

But after that last post by Beep! Beep!, she can just go ahead and die. When you put other factors over your win condition, you should not be playing in the game.

That's because you do not understand that while you play mafia like it's a chess game, I play mafia like it's theater. I think you actually do know this. But as scum, you have to pretend that you don't. And that way, you are playing like it's theater, also.

Maybe I *am* playing for my win condition, even if I may profess not to. You decide.

And since you are scum, and I am town, you will be proven wrong if I am lynched, and I will enjoy it very much. More than you will enjoy lynching a townie.

[Beep! Beep!]

If I were a second Jester, would I drop hints? That statement of yours is nonsensical. You are grasping at straws to discredit me.

I am mystified by your urge to prove my scum hunting methods wrong, since no one but me believes in them, and your repeated attempts to discredit me, given the indisputable fact that I have no credit whatsoever.

[Beep! Beep!]

It will be a pyrrhic victory I know, but I really look forward to proving you wrong, PJ.

My play is terrible? You bet it is. I totally suck at the art of persuasion.

You are the absolute, master of all scumbags. I've been spending hours running vote counts through the scumputer, and lo and behold, your name always floats to the top like cream! I would have wasted this many hours as scum? I don't think so, but I'll let you and your probable second partner discredit this statement as WIFOM.

You SAY my play is terrible. But is it, really? Maybe by your obsessive-compulsive standards, but by most normal standards, it is not. That's what makes you a superior scumbag pitted against a lousy, voteless, role-less townie. You plow and plow the same row, you repeat the mantra until it becomes the truth. You're far better at it than I will ever be or even care to become.

But tomorrow, when I'm dead, and I at last have the satisfaction of having shown you to be completely, utterly and hopelessly wrong, I hope that it is clear for the rest of the town, if we survive, that those that understood the depth and intensity of my frustration were not scumbags, but fellow townies.

To be freakin' vanilla and have one's vote stolen after having wasted countless hours trying to find scum, only to be outscummed, is the absolute height of frustration, thank you very much. And then I get berated for complaining that the day is going to be a bore-fest for me, and that vote-stealing should not be part of the Mod's dictionary, and when I do freakin' spend another few hours re-hashing the freakin' data, I get berated for that because PJ pretends not to understand how it works, and a couple of clerical error on my part that don't change the freakin' outcome anyway, and you all freakin' vote for me. And I can't even freakin' hammer myself, because that idiot MGIA thought it would be fun stealing my pathetic vote, instead of that of a freakin' lurker that contributes nothing, and everybody knows who these are.

[Beep! Beep!]

I have been wondering off-hand about something that I would like people's opinions on (and this is largely influenced by the notion of Beep! Beep! being scum). Do people think the scum-group was told in advance that Pooky was the Jester?

Hrm, interesting question...but I doubt that would have happened. I have never heard of a game in which the scum knew the Jester's identity before-hand. Though, just because I haven't heard of it doesn't mean it couldn't happen but I would say it's highly unlikely.

WOW!!!!

Hey, how about finding scum, Mizzy? Care to take a closer look at PJ and Holy, maybe???

[Beep! Beep!]

If you are trying to imply you are a second Jester, I do not believe that.

For Pete's sakes, only a scumbag would make that kind of statement. Doesn't anyone see this???

[Beep! Beep!]

I have been wondering off-hand about something that I would like people's opinions on (and this is largely influenced by the notion of Beep! Beep! being scum). Do people think the scum-group was told in advance that Pooky was the Jester?

Hrm, interesting question...but I doubt that would have happened. I have never heard of a game in which the scum knew the Jester's identity before-hand. Though, just because I haven't heard of it doesn't mean it couldn't happen but I would say it's highly unlikely.

Oh yeah, sorry, you're Amelia's replacement the other scumbag. Never mind.