Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!


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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:44 am

Post by Arakorn »

gorckat wrote: Arakorn- do us a favor- quote and correct all the posts where you mixed up neko and Javert. I'm not understanding what mistakes you made.
Sure.

Post number 576: (In response to Gorckat's "Arakorn- you have no suspicion of Javert?")
Me wrote: Less than I have of Gorckat to be honest. Why??
And then post 578:
Me wrote: Calling a 50% suspicion to a 60-70& suspicion is a major swing?
In both those posts I thought you were talking about Neko and not Javert, don't ask me why.

Votecount;

Arakorn (2) soupfly, gorckat
gorckat (1) arakorn


Not voting; The rest of you
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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:28 pm

Post by neko2086 »

Javert, you are working on your other two summaries, yes? I think we're kind of at a standstill here until you do.
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:10 pm

Post by Javert »

Yes, I still try to put aside a little bit of time each day to read a few pages. Hectic schedule lately, but I certainly am not avoiding the game.

In the meanwhile, I would appreciate it if gorckat would respond to whatever he feels necessary to respond to in my summaries about him. Alternatively, there is nothing stopping any of you from making cases / commentary on the game.
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:19 pm

Post by neko2086 »

Much of what I have to say highly depends on what you and gorckat have to say. I agree that gorckat should respond, and had you had any specific questions for him, I would have pressured him to do so. I'd think that he'd have something to say about your post, though.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:07 am

Post by gorckat »

Honestly, I have nothing to say.

I refuse to try and justify every single post I have made. If there is something specific to question, ask it and I'll respond.

I'm torn between what I feel is Javert's attempt to overload us with info and Arakorn's flat refusal to list a concrete reason why he thinks I'm scummy.

Arakorn's "clarification" doesn't clarify things for me. Not to be a dick, but Arakorn- can you actually replace the names you confused? Copy the whole post, use a strikethrough and put the name you meant or thought was there?

All your last post did was restate that you got people mixed up which, at this stage of the game, is hard to fathom.
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:30 am

Post by Arakorn »

I have personally not mixed up any names. I just read wrong or misunderstood, don't ask me how, when you (Gorckat) asked me about Javert. I thought you meant Neko.
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:42 am

Post by gorckat »

This:
Arakorn wrote:To add to that, I'm 99% sure that we should lynch Javert or Gorckat, but of course you others are only 66.
and this:
Arakorn wrote:My suspicious-list:

1. Gorckat
2. Neko
3. Javert
beg to differ that you haven't mixed up any names. Unless your views have changed, which you haven't indicated.
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:59 am

Post by Arakorn »

Oh, didn't remember that. Well certainly my view has changed since that, I'll try to read back to see why.
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:42 pm

Post by Javert »

All right, a few questions I that have precipitated from my the second half of my commentary on gorckat:

1.)
Was there a particular reason you did not vote Gorgon (on Day One) until a deadline was placed, when you had three other posts where you could have done the same?

2.)
Why did you vote for soupfly on Day One after the deadline was placed when you had at least four other people you found to be more suspicious? (Note: I believe you may have explained this before, but I am making this question based solely on my summary).

3.)
Did you feel 'pressured' on Page 14? I would like as much detail as possible for this particular question. Thoughts, feelings, plans, etc.

4.)
Did you feel that your exercise on the beginning of Day Two (looking at voting patterns) was self-serving?

5.)
Why did you not advocate vigging Arakorn over vigging MBF?

6.)
Why did you hammer Gorgon when it was fairly clear not everybody in the town (including Tarhalindur, easily the most important person in the game at that point) was not showing complete
comfort
with the plan?

~~~~~

I do not believe I will be finishing my Arakorn summary this weekend; looking at my schedule, I expect (hope) it will be done around this Wednesday to Friday. Real life is
such
an obstacle sometimes...

I will note, however, that if Arakorn's suspicion list has me
below
neko2086, I would like him to explain his reasoning for that
before
I make my summary of neko2086; the last I want is for him to cherrypick things from
my
eventual commentary as reasoning for
his
list.
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:32 am

Post by gorckat »

Javert wrote:All right, a few questions I that have precipitated from my the second half of my commentary on gorckat:

1.)
Was there a particular reason you did not vote Gorgon (on Day One) until a deadline was placed, when you had three other posts where you could have done the same?
Not that I recall. It looks like I hadn't picked up on his sikario worries, which I noted at the time I voted.
2.)
Why did you vote for soupfly on Day One after the deadline was placed when you had at least four other people you found to be more suspicious? (Note: I believe you may have explained this before, but I am making this question based solely on my summary).
To put someone at risk of getting lynched.
3.)
Did you feel 'pressured' on Page 14? I would like as much detail as possible for this particular question. Thoughts, feelings, plans, etc.
Pressured by the deadline to get a lynch. I wish I could recall my exact state of mind from 2 months ago, but I can't.
4.)
Did you feel that your exercise on the beginning of Day Two (looking at voting patterns) was self-serving?
In the sense I thought it would help others and myself find scum. I guess I could have done it privately, if that's what you're getting at.
5.)
Why did you not advocate vigging Arakorn over vigging MBF?
me wrote:I like lynching Gorgon first and offing mbf at night, but really, either way we proceed the same if neither one is scum.
I was fine with either one.
6.)
Why did you hammer Gorgon when it was fairly clear not everybody in the town (including Tarhalindur, easily the most important person in the game at that point) was not showing complete
comfort
with the plan?
Point me at a post showing dissent. I skimmed back and I didn't see any. I saw a string of "vote: Gorgon" and Arakorn's "let Tar decide".
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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:01 pm

Post by Javert »

Arakorn (McStab) Analysis


Hunh, this analysis should be fairly quick. I have no commentary on McStab; he was replaced after a mere two in-game posts in Post #248, on page 10. During these 10 pages, there is nothing in either MeMe's or Sikario8's posts which really suggest a connection (although this is to be expected given his absence and need for replacement).

Annoying that Arakorn asked for somebody else to 'summarize' the game for him, because he did not want to 'thoroughly' read through them all. At the very least not reading the game is bad play, but the use of the word 'thoroughly' makes his request scummier than it otherwise would be, since I
have
seen townspeople ask for games to be summarized for them due to a
lack of time
. I believe all other replacements – except for Dead Rikimaru -- in this game have read the game almost immediately and gave their own commentary. In this case, Arakorn indicated that he
could
have read the game, just that he did not want to do so
thoroughly
. This only serves to give him leeway if he happens to 'misinterpret' something based off some summarization given from another player. Upon being told to read the game himself, he claims that "I've decided not to trust you guys".

Near Christmastime, Arakorn mentions he'll be gone for a week or two. Nothing wrong with this, clearly. I can be pretty sure he must have sent a note to the mod to the same effect given the mod's Post #299, where the mod
did not
prod Arakorn, such that Arakorn was not 'avoiding' the game during this time.

However, his reentrance back into the game certainly doesn't win him any points for not even bothering to check when the deadline was, and then under the impression that it
was
the deadline day, he makes no effort to read the game, give commentary, or add a vote. Claims to have 'no suspects' in Post #324. gorckat gives a fair FoS when Arakorn posts Post #328, claiming that he might be able to "read through the whole thread in a week". Seeing as he had
just been told
deadline would hit in less than a week, this is essentially an excuse for him not to read the thread at all on Day One (or conversely, reading the thread but being able to skirt from commentary on it). Of course, as scum, this would allow him to get a hold of the game during the night, where he could talk with mafia partners. Noting here to check the difference between D1 and D2 posts from Arakorn, because if he were scum I would imagine he would have gotten some 'pointers' from MeMe during Night One.

As it happens, with four days until deadline hits, MeMe then
votes
for Arakorn in Post #331. I'm having trouble with this vote. On the one hand, since it was near deadline, this indicates that MeMe was being pretty serious. However, Post #336 from MeMe shows that she will be willing to vote anybody
else
at the drop of a hat, in effect weakening her vote on Arakorn. This vote may have been meant as a 'wake-up' call (i.e. "read the game and comment so you aren't lynched on that basis"). In response, Arakorn comes to the thread and votes for gorckat, putting two players above him on the lynching table while also taking a stand. He later (strangely) unvotes in Post #357 without reason. I really don't know what to make of this.

Note
: The MeMe-vote on Arakorn was on Page 14. Given my earlier analysis, I can be pretty confident that Page 14 is probably the most important page of the game, and I will be sure to read it a few times before I vote today.

There is some limited dialogue between MeMe (in a response to neko2086) and Arakorn in Post #351 and Post #353.

Noticing some insistence on how Arakorn is 'known for not contributing'. Examples are:
Arakorn wrote:I really have no larger suspicions, as there has been so little analysis so far (on my part too, but those from TWC will know that I usually dont' do it either!
Arakorn wrote:I am usually quite quiet, which makes me stand out here in a Mafia-dedicated community.
Arakorn wrote:(I am known for not being so contributive though...)
I have a tendency to make comments like this as well (albeit not related to lack of contribution), so I'll give this the benefit of the doubt.

~~~~~

Day Two. After having had time to read the game (and if scum, converse with MeMe), he starts off with Post #382, to see if Tarhalindur means both voters of Arakorn (which were MeMe and Gorgon) are 'scum', which is a fair question since at the time, Tarhalindur only attacked MeMe and not Gorgon.

Post #387, defends his last-minute unvote, which is somewhat reasonable given that his vote was not 'necessary' for a lynch and even if scum, voting anybody else would not have saved Dead Rikimaru by that point once soupfly switched for self-preservation purposes. Unfortunately, we get no immediate commentary on the MeMe "lock-on"; he does not comment on Tarhalindur, and he does not comment on MeMe. After Tarhalindur claims, he votes for MeMe.

The vote is to be expected from both town or scum, but his comment of "at least we'll get a confirmation on his role next morning... That is unless someone has protective powers to protect Tar" suggests that
if
Arakorn is scum, he was certainly going to be trying to kill Tarhalindur that night as opposed to Doc-hunting. He
does
suggest talking more in Post #396, which I consider pro-town
except
for that if he wanted to
wait
to lynch MeMe, he also should have
unvoted
. Upon MeMe self-voting, he claims confusion in Post #416. And even though MeMe needed only one more vote for a lynch, he
did not unvote
. His actions (voting MeMe) are contrary to his words (don't lynch MeMe yet).

~~~~~

Day Three. Gives what his probably his most 'substantive' post so far in this reread with Post #454, which sadly does not comment on any live players.

Some soft WIFOM tossed out in Post #460, although in this case I think it is merited. MeMe had self-voted claiming "I had to try", so I find it doubtful that given Arakorn continued voting for MeMe, he was not "defending her". It is more likely (given his bifurcation of actions and words pointed out above) he was trying to make sure she got lynched so that he would not have to comment on the game for another day.

Claims to be 'fine' with soupfly's idea in Post #475, and wants Tar to decide on the lynch in Post #482 (in effect, another excuse to not post commentary on players). Advocates ending the day quickly (again) in Post #499 by voting Gorgon.

~~~~~

Day Four. Post #517 is a bit disingenuous; he questions how gorckat narrowed his suspects down to two players while doing the same thing himself. This is really the only time in the game in the reread where Arakorn has really mentioned a 'suspicion' at all, and even then it really only by 'process of elimination'. (Note: His early gorckat vote does not even seem to fit this as a suspicion, since he never presented a case and also unvoted him soon thereafter.)

A more substantial WIFOM defense in Post #535. First, it's faulty since neither Dead Rikimaru nor Sikario8 ever voted for him, and second this WIFOM relies on the actions of
others
instead of his
own
actions.

Claims to 'still be here' in Post #553, and offers no commentary on my analysis of gorckat, nor anything else. Confusing WIFOM post which needs to be clarified in Post #574, where he then limits scum-group to {gorckat and Neko}. These posts are all confusing in general; I'm not sure who is trying to refer to at all. Post #580 still fails to explain the posts. Apparently he sticks with the {gorckat and Neko} as being the two most likely with Post #596, which confuses me.
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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:13 pm

Post by Javert »

Questions for Arakorn


1.)
Arakorn, have you 'thoroughly' read the game by now?

2.)
You claimed at one point that the game 'could have been several pages of spam'. Do you find spam easier to read through, or posts of substance?

-->
a.
If you answer 'spam', then the game should have been fairly easy to read through when you replaced on the top of Page 11. Why then did you appear to avoid reading the game for so long?

-->
b.
If you answer substantive posts, then why have you not commented on those posts which are actually substantive? I would very much like your commentary on the gorckat-Javert discussion on the last few pages.

3.)
After returning from Christmas break, you enter the game claiming to think that day was the deadline day. If this is true, why weren't you compelled to read the game and vote as soon as possible? Deadlines, in my experience, tend to
spur
activity.

4.)
Why did you vote for gorckat near deadline only to unvote him soon thereafter?

5.)
Would you have voted for MeMe if Tarhalindur had not claimed? Would you have voted Tarhalindur if he had 'refused' to claim? Try to answer honestly, and with reasoning.

6.)
Why did you claim that you wanted the town to
wait
to lynch MeMe while you were still
voting
for her? Do you agree that if that was your intention, you would have been better off
holding off
voting for MeMe?

7.)
I would also like you to clarify, once and for all, exactly who your suspects are, and in what order. You switched from the beginning of Day Four from {gorckat and Javert} to {gorckat and neko2086}, and I would like to make sure this is – in fact – what you are intending to do. Once you have clarified, I would like reasoning as for why this is where you are placing us, and what caused you into making this switch.
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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:33 pm

Post by Javert »

Response to gorckat's question

gorckat wrote:
Javert wrote:6.) Why did you hammer Gorgon when it was fairly clear not everybody in the town (including Tarhalindur, easily the most important person in the game at that point) was not showing complete comfort with the plan?
Point me at a post showing dissent. I skimmed back and I didn't see any. I saw a string of "vote: Gorgon" and Arakorn's "let Tar decide".
Certainly.

A plan is first proposed in Post #464. Both myself and Tarhalindur point out a few problems in Post 467, Post 468, and Post 469. This is followed by some adjustments suggested. After some adjustments, we have people showing some discomfort with the plan

Dissension #1
: Arakorn not agreeing to 'neko being town' in Post #475 (easily the 'weakest' dissension)
Dissension #2
: Gorgon does not think soupfly should use the rocket in Post #485
Dissension #3
: When MBF votes for gorckat in Post #495, he is pretty clearly against the 'lynch Gorgon, Vig MBF' plan, especially since he had a chance to push Gorgon towards a lynch in Post #503.
Dissension #4
: I show how my concerns about the 'plan' aren't simply coming from myself in Post #496, since it was clear that not everybody agreed on the assessments of players, and there were questions as to exactly what soupfly's 'money forger' did, or what soupfly should do that next night.
Dissension #5
: Tarhalindur specifically mentions he is "getting some cold feet about MBF himself" while voting for Gorgon in Post #497, and additionally, he does not tell the town to vote with him; instead he explicitly says that he will "
look over his posts again later
". This is both showing discomfort with vigging MBF, as well as lynching Gorgon before he has a chance to assure that's what he wants to do.

~~~~~

Note: the word 'dissension' in this context is meant to show that these players were not
fully
comfortable with the plan, and hence it was fairly clear that the plan needed more discussing before going into night.
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:05 am

Post by gorckat »

Hmm- okay. I see what you mean by dissension.

Looking back, Gorgon had claimed vanilla, said he was expendable and there was no real reason not to lynch him. iirc, I was concerned scum would get off the hook by us chasing our tail looking for the perfect plan, so I acted decisively and hammered.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:38 am

Post by neko2086 »

Javert, just curious, between Gorckat and Arakorn, whom do you find scummier.

For the record, I'm still in favor of lynching Arakorn today. You have some very valid concerns about Gorckat, but I find Arakorn's play overall more troublesome. After you give your analysis on me, I should be able to decide which of you two is my second choice
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:13 am

Post by Javert »

I will answer your question after Arakorn has responded to the set of questions I have laid out for him (and possibly have him respond/react to things in my analysis which are not direct questions). As it is, I want to be able to read my analyses and responses to them side-by-side.
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:53 am

Post by Arakorn »

Right let's see then...
(Sorry lost interest as it was a bit quiet and that's why I didnt check until now.
Javert wrote:
1.)
Arakorn, have you 'thoroughly' read the game by now?
To be honest, no. Not the part in the beginning. :oops:
Javert wrote:
2.)
You claimed at one point that the game 'could have been several pages of spam'. Do you find spam easier to read through, or posts of substance?

-->
a.
If you answer 'spam', then the game should have been fairly easy to read through when you replaced on the top of Page 11. Why then did you appear to avoid reading the game for so long?

-->
b.
If you answer substantive posts, then why have you not commented on those posts which are actually substantive? I would very much like your commentary on the gorckat-Javert discussion on the last few pages.
If by "posts of substance" you mean posts like your analysis, then I'm not sure; both are equally hard. While spam are very annoying, huge analysises can be hard to read (maybe for someone with English not as his/her's first language).
As to why I didn't respond to the analysises, it was probably because I felt that I wouldn't have anything that would be considered good and informative posting, and I've experienced games in which posts like that, posts that contain no real information, are considered scummy.

Javert wrote:
3.)
After returning from Christmas break, you enter the game claiming to think that day was the deadline day. If this is true, why weren't you compelled to read the game and vote as soon as possible? Deadlines, in my experience, tend to
spur
activity.
To my knowledge, deadlines are good for the scum, who wish to get the day over ASAP. Why would I vote for someone if I had no suspicions, at least not enough to warrant a vote for someone?
I really don't remember much from this time though, it is 3 months ago, but was the deadline moved a week further? That's the only reason I can think of as the reason why I thought it was the deadline...

Javert wrote:
4.)
Why did you vote for gorckat near deadline only to unvote him soon thereafter?
I voted for him because of his scummy post, as seen in
my
post. Wanted to pressurise him, then later unvoted. I realise now it was stupid of me not to motivate this unvote.

Javert wrote:
5.)
Would you have voted for MeMe if Tarhalindur had not claimed? Would you have voted Tarhalindur if he had 'refused' to claim? Try to answer honestly, and with reasoning.
No, I thought his claim had enough proof. (BTW it would have helped had you linked to Tar's posts, "claims", too...)

Javert wrote:
6.)
Why did you claim that you wanted the town to
wait
to lynch MeMe while you were still
voting
for her? Do you agree that if that was your intention, you would have been better off
holding off
voting for MeMe?
I held my vote there as a pressure vote. Don't have anything more to say to my defense here.
Would a scum have lynched his scum-mate, or wouldn't the scum after having urged for more discussion actually unvote too? This would avoid suspicion very much.

Javert wrote:
7.)
I would also like you to clarify, once and for all, exactly who your suspects are, and in what order. You switched from the beginning of Day Four from {gorckat and Javert} to {gorckat and neko2086}, and I would like to make sure this is – in fact – what you are intending to do. Once you have clarified, I would like reasoning as for why this is where you are placing us, and what caused you into making this switch.


My top suspect remains Gorckat. Second comes Neko, then Javert, but the difference between these is minimal.
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Javert »

Responding to Arakorn (with more questions):
Arakorn wrote:To my knowledge, deadlines are good for the scum, who wish to get the day over ASAP. Why would I vote for someone if I had no suspicions, at least not enough to warrant a vote for someone?
I really don't remember much from this time though, it is 3 months ago, but was the deadline moved a week further? That's the only reason I can think of as the reason why I thought it was the deadline...
Let me ask my same question in a different way. If you thought that day was the deadline day, why were you not spurred to read the game to
find out
who you were most suspicious of so that you could give a warranted vote?
Arakorn wrote:No, I thought his claim had enough proof. (BTW it would have helped had you linked to Tar's posts, "claims", too...)
Ah, perhaps my wording was a bit confusing. This is more along the lines of what I was getting at:

If Tarhalindur never claimed his role at all or that he had an investigation (but instead just went after MeMe), would you have voted MeMe alongside with him? Or would have done something else?
Arakorn wrote:I held my vote there as a pressure vote. Don't have anything more to say to my defense here.
Would a scum have lynched his scum-mate, or wouldn't the scum after having urged for more discussion actually unvote too? This would avoid suspicion very much.
Response: In my experience, if a townsperson wants more discussion, they should take away the avenues for
stopping
discussion (which means they should unvote somebody, especially if they are anywhere close to being lynched).

Here is an example of what I am getting at from another game (which is pretty famous and everybody on the site should read it, in my humble opinions): Post #157 from Axelrod-scum in Worst Role Evar Mafia. He claims he does
not
want a player lynched while putting them at Lynch-1, and then that player is lynched anyways immediately afterwards (by a townsperson, no less). If Axelrod had
really
not wanted that player lynched yet, he would not have
voted
for him – as you may notice, he actually
did
want that player lynched. His actions and his words were contradicting each other.

As it is, scum had a vested interest in making Day Two in
this
game go as fast as possible; the sooner MeMe was lynched, the less information the town could actually get from the lynch; this is an excellent reason for scum to (for example) claim they do not want the day to end yet while keeping their vote on MeMe (in hopes she actually is lynched all the sooner). This is why I am poking you about this subject.
Arakorn wrote:My top suspect remains Gorckat. Second comes Neko, then Javert, but the difference between these is minimal.
Please
go into detail. The
point
of me asking you questions is because
I do not know your alignment, and I am trying to figure that out
. The longer your response, the more likely I am to judge correctly. Point to posts you don't like (or do like), make a case, tell me where you get particular vibes: do whatever you need to do so that I can see you have
some
reasoning behind why you are placing players where they are on your suspicions list.
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:10 am

Post by gorckat »

@Arakorn: You also owe us an explanation why your views shifted from neko being third to neko being second on your suspect list.
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:24 am

Post by soupfly »

@neko: since you'll be making the final decision on this (probably), in case arakorn turns out to be a townie then between gorckat and javert i think that gorckat is probably scummier one...though i'm not all that confident in this assessment.
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:55 am

Post by gorckat »

Is that gut, or is there something specific?
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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:17 am

Post by neko2086 »

Right, if you've got anything specific to base that on, that'd be helpful. As long as you're still here, I'd appreciate your input.
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:53 am

Post by soupfly »

more by process of elimination since i think that javert seems pretty pro-town.
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:25 pm

Post by Javert »

While I’m waiting for the last few Arakorn responses, I’ll analyze neko2086. Please note that I will be gone from March 13 – 17 due to Mock Trial. I will be placing my vote after returning unless it is generally agreed that people would like more discussion.

Also, I will be trying to do this reread as objectively as possible, without my inherent bias telling me that neko2086 is probably town and this is likely a waste of my time. No leniency will be given on account of this.

neko2086 Analysis


Pokes early at MeMe with Post #26, with some cordial posts exchanged between the two in Posts 29-31. Cannot tell if this was distancing or genuine curiosity as of yet, so this exchange does not push me one way or another.

Post #55, although displaced on Archaist, is actually just fine so long as reasoning goes, with a fine response in Post #58.

I have mixed feelings about the vote on Archaist in the sense that he then FoS’s soupfly for following and FoS’s gorckat for following; it does not strike me as entirely ‘natural’. I know of at least one other player who has (or had, at least) a similar habit. In Committee Mafia (the first example that comes to mind), Glorkscum asked for people to “trust in the Glorkdar”, and then promptly FoS’s Bogre for putting trust in Glork a mere ten posts later. Slight scum points for neko2086 for this.

Hmm, didn’t notice this before. In Post #86, neko2086 characterizes RideTheBomb’s vote on MeMe as an OMGUS vote, and then also asks why RTB was voting for MeMe; the relevant thing to note being that if RTB had a legitimate reason, then his vote was not OMGUS. This may have been an attempt to poison the well (i.e. make RTB look bad prior to him explaining his vote – which, as it turned out,
was
OMGUS as explained in Post #95, but neko2086 could not have known that at the time). He also questions gorckat’s vote on MeMe. I might normally construe this as a soft defense of MeMe, but neko2086 has already shown somewhat of a precedent for having people explain their votes (i.e. the votes on Archaist and even MeMe’s vote on RTB). As such, minus points for prematurely characterizing RTB’s vote as OMGUS, but no points either way for asking people to explain their MeMe votes.

Reasonable enough explanation of Archaist-vote and subsequent FoS’s in Post #108. Good FoS of Sikario8 in Post #140, followed by a vote in Post #142. Neither of these posts strikes me as a distancing attempt so far. Continues to hound Sikario8 in Post #153, as well as Post #163. neko2086 is really the only person giving Sikario8 a rough time so far, so this is definite plus points; this is all just forcing Sikario8 into the spotlight more and more (which is even hard see scum doing given that Sikario8 was a Godfather). He also makes a jab at Sikario8 without mentioning his name in Post #190 by slipping in “active lurking, however, is worse”.

Post #222 is a post to keep in mind while reading neko2086; seems like a definer of his gameplay.

Uh. No clue what to think about the string of posts from Post 225 from Sikario8 up to Post 228 from Sikario8. Regardless, it was bad play from Sikario8.

Note: After this time, neko2086 started accumulating some serious flak and a couple votes (and a confirm vote from soupfly). Need to keep this in mind. Unfortunately, neko2086 also was away during this period, as explained in Post #276.

Very pro-town diluting of MeMe’s Pra vote in Post #293. This shows he is reading the thread carefully, understanding the substance behind arguments, and not willing to hop on weak reasoning. I am more inclined a scum-partner would not have attacked MeMe’s reasoning at all, but instead would have simply stuck with something such as “I do not agree with your reasoning”.

I also like Post #332, which remains consistent with Post #222 I referenced above, while additionally continuing to ‘stick it’ to Sikario8 / DR. neko2086 never really seems to waver on his Sikario8 vote. He even continues to poke at MeMe
new
vote (on Arakorn) with Post #350.

None
of this has felt like distancing even once, and neko2086’s play on Day One would necessitate him having distanced from Sikario8 by playing a huge role in his lynch, as well as having distanced from MeMe by continually attacking her reasoning when it would have been completely unnecessary to do that as a scum-partner.

I actually think I will just stop right now (unless somebody would like me to finish my analysis). Although I
do
think neko2086 did a few scummy things to kick off the game, his actions later in day one -- as well as circumstance (the tracking result) make him look very pro-town, especially more pro-town than gorckat and Arakorn.

~~~~~

Back to waiting on Arakorn, then.
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Post by soupfly »

the neko analysis seems a bit unnecessary javert. strange you should do such a positive review when neko is the one who may be deciding the outcome of this game.
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