Mini 550: KSFV: Game Over

[vIQleS]

Sorry for the double post but this:

whenever i have a good read on people, you know it.

Is clearly not true. I have no idea what you're even saying half the time, and Im not the only one who took what you said yesterday as meaning that you strongly thought that Unity was a cult leader.

[thinktank]

Viqles, I understand that questioning is important but if RC is fake claiming, then whats the use claiming day 1? I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with this line of questioning.

[vIQleS]

What about to sow the seed that he shouldn't be lynched? A cult cop would be literally invaluable to town in a game with a cult.

As to the line of questioning - I was initially trying to clear up some confusion and perceived inconsistencies, neither of which have been answered to my satisfaction.

So, until I am presented with evidence to the contrary or evidence that points to a stronger case for someone else, I shall retain my vote on RC.

[aioqwe]

I don't think we should lynch RC on the possibility of him being cultie cop and us having a cult (2 members now, leader and recruit). Thinktank, see this reasoning? This is why RC would claim cult cop. Anyways, cult would be at 3 people IF we have a cult and it can recruit every night. Seeing as no killing roles seem to have died they will be 2 off of a majority. So IF we have a cult and IF it can recruit every night, then we need to take care of it with a lynch/nk. Scarecrows (presumed mafia) are down a member so I don't see them as an immediate threat...

[pete d]

Vote Count

aioqwe (1): thinktank
Battle Mage (1): Lloyd
Rosso Carne (1): vIQleS
thinktank (1): aioqwe

Not Voting (4): Battle Mage, Joubert, Rosso Carne, SensFan

With 8 alive, it will take 5 to lynch

[SensFan]

aioqwe, are you actually saying you think its realistic that there is both a scumgroup AND a cult in a Mini?

FoS: aioqwe

[aioqwe]

Don't really know. It's highly unlikely tho. Why does believing in this possibility warrant and FoS?

[SensFan]

Because that is absolutely ridiculous. A 12-person game with (at least) 2 scums AND a Cult Leader is probably the most broken game I've ever heard of. The Town stands no chance whatsoever.

It sounds to me like you are trying to defend RC.

[aioqwe]

cult/ scum *might* be limited to recruit/kill every other day.

But this is a failing argument. I'll do a re-read and see how my opinions turn up.

[Joubert]

Well, the Cult and the Mafia are two different teams...
It's not like they are all against the Town as a whole...

[Battle Mage]

Ok, just popping in to say, i havent read the game. But i have read the OP. And i've nailed us a

guaranteed

scum.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Last night we had 3 NK's. One was clearly a Vig, the flavour for which is pretty obvious. 1 was a standard mafia group, of 2/3 members. and 1 was an SK. Now i modded Chinese New Year Mafia a little while back. It had 2 mafia, 1 SK, and a decent shower of protown power roles.

There is absolutely no F***ing way there is a cult in this game.

Which means Rosso has been lying from his very first post.

Confirm Vote: Rosso Carne

BM

[aioqwe]

What's OP?

[thinktank]

Ok, just popping in to say, i havent read the game. But i have read the OP. And i've nailed us a

guaranteed

scum.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Last night we had 3 NK's. One was clearly a Vig, the flavour for which is pretty obvious. 1 was a standard mafia group, of 2/3 members. and 1 was an SK. Now i modded Chinese New Year Mafia a little while back. It had 2 mafia, 1 SK, and a decent shower of protown power roles.

There is absolutely no F***ing way there is a cult in this game.

Which means Rosso has been lying from his very first post.

Confirm Vote: Rosso Carne

BM

You gave reason as to why there was a vig based on the flavour, but other than GS being "kicked out", the other two NK's flavour seemed fairly similar (torn up, stuffed full of straw). Besides your own personal experience is there any reason to assume that there is a SK because you're argument falls if the assumption you've made on experience becomes false. I agree that a CULT is very unlikely because chances are there are as many 3 mafia groups. Perhaps 2 f there is a vig and perhaps 1 if there is a vig and an SK. The town can't afford to make another mistake cause then if the pattern follows we'll be down to 4 people at which point if we've lynched the wrong person then its over.

[Battle Mage]

Ok, just popping in to say, i havent read the game. But i have read the OP. And i've nailed us a

guaranteed

scum.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Last night we had 3 NK's. One was clearly a Vig, the flavour for which is pretty obvious. 1 was a standard mafia group, of 2/3 members. and 1 was an SK. Now i modded Chinese New Year Mafia a little while back. It had 2 mafia, 1 SK, and a decent shower of protown power roles.

There is absolutely no F***ing way there is a cult in this game.

Which means Rosso has been lying from his very first post.

Confirm Vote: Rosso Carne

BM

You gave reason as to why there was a vig based on the flavour, but other than GS being "kicked out", the other two NK's flavour seemed fairly similar (torn up, stuffed full of straw). Besides your own personal experience is there any reason to assume that there is a SK because you're argument falls if the assumption you've made on experience becomes false. I agree that a CULT is very unlikely because chances are there are as many 3 mafia groups. Perhaps 2 f there is a vig and perhaps 1 if there is a vig and an SK. The town can't afford to make another mistake cause then if the pattern follows we'll be down to 4 people at which point if we've lynched the wrong person then its over.

The 'Kicked out' kill seems like a vig kill, as it is a matter of

security

, to want to kick the scum out of the game. The 'ripped to shreds' kill is almost certainly an SK, as the most brutal kill flavours almost certainly are, and it fits the balance of the game pretty well.
Stuffed full of straw is quite obviously the Scarecrow Mafia's kill.

3 scum in a 12 player game is balanced. Maybe 4 is a possibility, but a cult and 2 anti-town killing groups?

IMPOSSIBLE.

I'd bet my reputation on it. (or perhaps my pet cat, which is worth a little more)

BM

[Battle Mage]

What's OP?

Opening Post.

[Lloyd]

i havent read the game. But i have read the OP
[...]
Which means Rosso has been lying from his very first post.

If you only read pete_d's Opening Post, and not the game yet, how do you know what Rosso Carne wrote in his first post from yesterday?
---

A 12-person game with (at least) 2 scums AND a Cult Leader is probably the most broken game I've ever heard of. The Town stands no chance whatsoever.

The town won in Resident Evil 4 Mafia

3 scum in a 12 player game is balanced. Maybe 4 is a possibility, but a cult and 2 anti-town killing groups?

IMPOSSIBLE.

It is possible; the mechanics in Resident Evil 4 Mafia had the possibility of remaining uncured cult members turning into SKs, but cult members were cured before turning into SKs
---

nervous cop=paranoid cop?

No. Nervous cops can find scums, but everyone else appears as neutral (i.e. not scum). Details at Dethy Extreme

So just to be perfectly clear... What is a Nervous Cop? How do the results appear for each type of alignment?

Joubert, see quotes above.
---
Since we're speculating on flavor of night kills...

Here's my theory:
- stuffed full of straw: Probably by Mafia Scarecrows
- kicked out of the casino: Probably by Vig Bouncer
- torn to pieces: Probably by SK White Tiger (from Siegfried and Roy)
---

alright fine, but when the cult grows uncontrollably, im getting replaced.

If you are alive tomorrow, will you ask to be replaced?

[Battle Mage]

i havent read the game. But i have read the OP
[...]
Which means Rosso has been lying from his very first post.

If you only read pete_d's Opening Post, and not the game yet, how do you know what Rosso Carne wrote in his first post from yesterday?

I believe i've already stated that prior to replacing in, i had read a portion of the game. I just havent read the entire thing, or enough to have a good overview of scummy play. Hence im willing to lynch based on an obvious fakeclaim.

3 scum in a 12 player game is balanced. Maybe 4 is a possibility, but a cult and 2 anti-town killing groups?

IMPOSSIBLE.

It is possible; the mechanics in Resident Evil 4 Mafia had the possibility of remaining uncured cult members turning into SKs, but cult members were cured before turning into SKs

Poor comparison. Even with that as an extreme, it doesnt compare to the addition of an SK, and potentially additional mafia members. I'm not seeing it.

FoS: Lloyd

BM

[vIQleS]

The 'Kicked out' kill seems like a vig kill, as it is a matter of

security

, to want to kick the scum out of the game. The 'ripped to shreds' kill is almost certainly an SK, as the most brutal kill flavours almost certainly are, and it fits the balance of the game pretty well.
Stuffed full of straw is quite obviously the Scarecrow Mafia's kill.

It occurs to me that 'ripped to shreds' would also be a good way of killing a scarecrow. It is possible that that is another vig looking to kill scarecrows.

There are (or seem to be) a lot of power roles in this game, which may be there to balance out a cult.

Possible however does not make me feel any better about RCs play to date. My vote remains.

Perhaps we need to start talking about other possible scum. We should have at least one more, probably two... (RC may be one of them, or he may be a SK...)

[thinktank]

There seem to be an awful lot of power roles in this game considering there are prolly 2-4 scum, maybe a vig 4 and maybe SK as well as the fact that everyone NKed last night had a power role. A cult isn't really something to be worried of because Culties take control of vanillas, the power of the cult is significantly reduced by this limiting factor (unless in this game the cult can hijack people with Power Roles as well). Coinciding with that fact, this would make RC's role prolly the most useless power role and damn well impossible to prove or disprove. Which increasingly means that his claim is probably fake.

unvote

[Rosso Carne]

im gonna get really pissed if this turned out to be a damn bastard mod role.

[Battle Mage]

omg, can we lynch this guy already!?

BM

[Joubert]

Battle Mage, maybe I didn't understand everything since the last 10 posts, but it seems you're imagining things here. Let's take Lloyd's assumptions:

- stuffed full of straw: Probably by Mafia Scarecrows
- kicked out of the casino: Probably by Vig Bouncer
- torn to pieces: Probably by SK White Tiger (from Siegfried and Roy)

So there would be a Mafia group, a SK and a Vig on the Town side. I can't see anything wrong with that kind of power roles mix...

3 scum in a 12 player game is balanced. Maybe 4 is a possibility, but a cult and 2 anti-town killing groups?

First of all, I don't think a lone Serial Killer should be considered a "group", and he's not anti-Town, but more anti-all. And the Cult is not strictly anti-Town either, since they could go against the Mafia also. Unless I missed something about roles descriptions, I don't see anything that could make the game awfully broken...

[pete d]

Vote Count

Rosso Carne (2): vIQleS, Battle Mage
Battle Mage (1): Lloyd
thinktank (1): aioqwe

Not Voting (4): thinktank, Joubert, Rosso Carne, SensFan

With 8 alive, it will take 5 to lynch

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, maybe I didn't understand everything since the last 10 posts, but it seems you're imagining things here. Let's take Lloyd's assumptions:

- stuffed full of straw: Probably by Mafia Scarecrows
- kicked out of the casino: Probably by Vig Bouncer
- torn to pieces: Probably by SK White Tiger (from Siegfried and Roy)

So there would be a Mafia group, a SK and a Vig on the Town side. I can't see anything wrong with that kind of power roles mix...

3 scum in a 12 player game is balanced. Maybe 4 is a possibility, but a cult and 2 anti-town killing groups?

First of all, I don't think a lone Serial Killer should be considered a "group", and he's not anti-Town, but more anti-all. And the Cult is not strictly anti-Town either, since they could go against the Mafia also. Unless I missed something about roles descriptions, I don't see anything that could make the game awfully broken...

An SK has a kill of its own. That gives us 3 kills a night. Its a group in that context. An SK is antitown because he prevents the town from winning.
A Cult is anti-town because it steals townies in order to gain victory for itself. Ive never seen a cult that can recruit from the mafia, hence it isnt as harmful to the mafia as it is to the town. Check out some other 12 player games. I know from my experience moderating them, that such a game would not be allowed to run on account of ridiculous imbalance.

BM

[SensFan]

im gonna get really pissed if this turned out to be a damn bastard mod role.

On top of everything else, that really sealed it for me. Not only is his role improbable, but now he's suggesting we have a bastard mod?

Vote: RC