Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!

[Patrick]

I disagree that Erg0 was pseudo claiming anything, and think Guardian has made an entirely too big deal out of it. Even if he had pseudo claimed vanilla, I'm not sure why that would be scummy as opposed to just bad play.

In fact, if you are scum, I'd say you're setting up for a claim.

You're saying if Erg0 is scum, he was setting himself up to claim vanilla, and was going to point to that as a breadcrumb?

Also, I'm having trouble working out exactly what you think of Erg0, it seems to alternate between thinking he's scum who needs running up tomorrow and thinking he's town.

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Votecount #24

opie - 5 (Oman, ChaosOmega, pickemgenius, Xylthixlm, Guardian)

Guardian - 4 (opie, Incognito, Jitsu, Adel)
Xylthixlm - 1 (Erg0)
ChaosOmega - 1 (Patrick)


Not voting - 1 ( Matt_S)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
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[Adel]

unvote, vote: Guardian

daytalk just ended, and now I think he is scum

Something in the meta, I assume? Can you elaborate?

his play is awefully consistant regardlesss of his alignment. My opinion of him in this game changed very quickly after I read his post at 593

5. Guardian has been scum in two of our previous games together, and I have a strong intuitive suspicion of him which is at least partially based upon experience.

And in either of those games, did you figure out I was scum? Also, in how many games in which I was town have you identified me as scum? Sharing a partial meta is more than slightly deceptive. In my experience, Adel is pretty inconsistent at determining my alignment.

For the record, Open 59, Daytalk, which just ended, was heavy on my mind when I posted this, since I was scum and Adel was town in that game and we were PM-ing and she was trying to collaborate with me to get a townie lynched.

He is trying to undermine whatever authority other players might think I have in determining correctly that he is scum.

If he is town I eexpect scum players to join me on his wagon any second now...

[Guardian]

He is trying to undermine whatever authority other players might think I have in determining correctly that he is scum.

Yes, I am. Unabashedly. I love playing with you, but in terms of determining my alignment -- you're pretty bad at it.

I would hate for people to follow you in lynching me, or in being assured I was town. Both are equally silly actions.

Seriously, you'd do better to just assume I'm town and work with it.

[Incognito]

I've read up on the recent stuff with respect to Erg0, and I'm puzzled as to why Guardian and Oman seem to think Erg0's comment about lynching him if opie and Matt_S come back as scum is a scummy comment. Erg0 has mentioned that a number of the votes that have piled onto the opie wagon have been wagonny. He's also mentioned that he's not completely sold on the case and mentioned what he thinks the case on opie boils down to:

Again, my point is that saying "we shouldn't have another claim on day 1" is not an excuse for a bad lynch. If I think that someone else is scum then I see no harm in getting a claim from them, regardless of how many players have claimed previously.

Generally, I am concerned that the current arguments in favour of hammering opie seem to boil down to "that wasn't a bad day 1, let's kill the guy with the most votes and get on with things".

Because of these facts, it follows logically to me that Erg0 believes this wagon could be scum-pushed and that opie is likely to be town. His comment seems more like a bet to me than some slip that he knows their alignment: "I'm willing to bet my own life that opie and Matt_S don't come back as scum if lynched". The arguments made by Oman and Guardian as of recent where they both go as far as to include HoS's seem like a complete straw man of Erg0 to me.

There was something that Guardian mentioned earlier though that seems more likely to imply that Guardian has some implied knowledge about opie's alignment than Ergo's comment:

As for putting it back on: opie is my top choice right now,

and I am as responsible as anyone for his lynch

, but there are some lines of discussion people are bringing up I'd like to pan out before a lynch.

To mention that you are "as responsible as anyone for his lynch", it seems to me like you

know

that opie will appear as town once he's lynched and it seems almost like you're paving the way for your Day 2 defense for if/when this occurs.

Aside from that, I found myself liking Patrick's vote on ChaosOmega. I've read up on some of ChaosOmega's past games where he's been scum, and I've noticed that he was just as lurker-ish in them as he has been in this game.

@pickemgenius:

What are your current feelings about ChaosOmega and Oman in this game? What are your current feelings about Guardian in this game?

[Adel]

As for putting it back on: opie is my top choice right now,

and I am as responsible as anyone for his lynch

, but there are some lines of discussion people are bringing up I'd like to pan out before a lynch.

To mention that you are "as responsible as anyone for his lynch", it seems to me like you

know

that opie will appear as town once he's lynched and it seems almost like you're paving the way for your Day 2 defense for if/when this occurs.

I don't think it is scummy for Guardian to do this, for whatever that is worth. That would just be Guardian being Guardian.

[Guardian]

As for putting it back on: opie is my top choice right now,

and I am as responsible as anyone for his lynch

, but there are some lines of discussion people are bringing up I'd like to pan out before a lynch.

To mention that you are "as responsible as anyone for his lynch", it seems to me like you

know

that opie will appear as town once he's lynched and it seems almost like you're paving the way for your Day 2 defense for if/when this occurs.

Whatever. If I didn't say this,then someone would say "OH, but you are tryingto look less suspicious if opie is town -- so you KNOW he is town and you are trying to get out of being suspicious kekekeke".

So I'm not sure what I could have said or not said there to make you happy.

This of course assumes opie is town, which I'm not at all sold on. If he is scum, will you find me significantly less suspicious, Incognito?

[Adel]

question: has Guardian had a strong wagon on him yet in this game?

[Guardian]

I've had 4, tied with opie or 1 behind, and thought I'd have to claim. I consider the wagon on me right now to be "strong". So yes.

[Erg0]

He had 4 votes on him at one point. Not sure whether that fits your definition of strong.

[Incognito]

This of course assumes opie is town, which I'm not at all sold on. If he is scum, will you find me significantly less suspicious, Incognito?

Not significantly less suspicious but certainly less suspicious. I feel like Adel's case and the subsequent opie-wagon spurred off of your backhanded response to opie's/Jitsu's case against you from way earlier in the game. Your response was too slippery to fall into the realm of busing, in my eyes.

[Erg0]

I need to work on my wpm.

[Incognito]

question: has Guardian had a strong wagon on him yet in this game?

Not strong enough. I think he should be at L-1 right now.

[Adel]

I've had 4, tied with opie or 1 behind, and thought I'd have to claim. I consider the wagon on me right now to be "strong". So yes.

I bet if an objective person were to look through all of guardian's lynchings (everytime he got the noose) he would tend to post more when he is scum relative to when he is town.

[Erg0]

Now we just have to find an objective person.

Was that supposed to prompt someone to do the analysis, or are you asserting that your hypothesis is true?

[Adel]

I suppose it could be collaborative. We could break up the larger analysis into pieces, and each help out. Wanna help?

[Erg0]

Not really, I doubt it would provide a result that was worth the effort. Guardian sure posted plenty when he got close to lynch in Big Love, and he was town there.

[Guardian]

I've had 4, tied with opie or 1 behind, and thought I'd have to claim. I consider the wagon on me right now to be "strong". So yes.

I bet if an objective person were to look through all of guardian's lynchings (everytime he got the noose) he would tend to post more when he is scum relative to when he is town.

Check Big Love Mafia and 24 Mafia. I'd think the reverse is true, actually, I tend to complain more as town. In the past. I'm pretty sick of complaining though, it is bad for my emotional health.

[pickemgenius]

@pickemgenius:

What are your current feelings about ChaosOmega and Oman in this game? What are your current feelings about Guardian in this game?

1. who?
2. Oman is aussie, it's hard to keep track of him, nothing unusual in what i see however.
3. I think Guardian is pretty town as i have said earlier.

[Incognito]

1. who?
2. Oman is aussie, it's hard to keep track of him, nothing unusual in what i see however.
3. I think Guardian is pretty town as i have said earlier.

Riiiiiiiiight. What the hell does Oman being Aussie have to do with his alignment?

[pickemgenius]

1. who?
2. Oman is aussie, it's hard to keep track of him, nothing unusual in what i see however.
3. I think Guardian is pretty town as i have said earlier.

Riiiiiiiiight. What the hell does Oman being Aussie have to do with his alignment?

Aussies are backwards.

You obviously missed reading the last part of that sentence.

[Xylthixlm]

Not significantly less suspicious but certainly less suspicious. I feel like Adel's case and the subsequent opie-wagon spurred off of your backhanded response to opie's/Jitsu's case against you from way earlier in the game. Your response was too slippery to fall into the realm of busing, in my eyes.

All this talk of who might be bussing who on day 1 makes my eyes glaze over. It's interesting to speculate on, but without any alignment info it's essentially shooting in the dark.

Right now, between Guardian and opie, I have a pretty good feeling on Guardian and a neutral to scummy read on opie. I'm going to stay on the opie wagon because it's the only way to keep Guardian from being deadline lynched.

I just did a review of Matt_S's recent posts, and it appears he hasn't done anything scummy in the last wee- er, the last couple d- well, in his last two posts. I'm oddly disappointed.

[Incognito]

1. who?
2. Oman is aussie, it's hard to keep track of him, nothing unusual in what i see however.
3. I think Guardian is pretty town as i have said earlier.

Riiiiiiiiight. What the hell does Oman being Aussie have to do with his alignment?

Aussies are backwards.

You obviously missed reading the last part of that sentence.

I read the entire sentence and it made no damn sense. Erg0's an Aussie too. Does that mean it's hard to keep track of him also?

[vollkan]

Deadline will arrive in approximately 27 hours

[pickemgenius]

1. who?
2. Oman is aussie, it's hard to keep track of him, nothing unusual in what i see however.
3. I think Guardian is pretty town as i have said earlier.

Riiiiiiiiight. What the hell does Oman being Aussie have to do with his alignment?

Aussies are backwards.

You obviously missed reading the last part of that sentence.

I read the entire sentence and it made no damn sense. Erg0's an Aussie too. Does that mean it's hard to keep track of him also?

you never asked me about erg0....

I know Oman moreso than erg0.
I know Oman does crazier shit then erg0, and erg0 is a secret aussie his backwardness is easier to keep track of.

[Erg0]

Unvote, Vote: ChaosOmega

This probably has a better shot at getting to a lynch in 27 hours than a Xyl wagon does.