Mini 535: Pick Your Poison 2 (Game Over!)

[Porochaz]

Thats fair enough, do you have any specific points you want me to answer to... or any questions...

[Mizzy]

Thats fair enough, do you have any specific points you want me to answer to... or any questions...

You mentioned that you were going to do a re-read of a few pages and I'd like to see what you have to say about that, and I want to know about your thoughts on happenings since you posted your thoughts on Gorrad...which, to be fair, were rather lacking in substance.

[Porochaz]

Yes I know I was doing a reread whilst you were posting this... I looked over at the last few pages and initially ever since Gorrad got put at 4 votes it feels like he is panicing... making last ditched attempts to save himself. The post on the previous page about how the weak doc would die if it targetted me is only true if I am scum and by saying that is definetly the case I feel is scummy in itself, because lets face it, you may think Im scum but you don't know whether Im scum or not, no matter how suspicous you are of me. Beyond that I didnt really notice Gorrad on my reread I will admit. I got caught up with the discussion between yos2 and Setael and my conclusion to that was that I don't really buy her excuse for finding yos2 more scummy than before.

Post 974 was a good post. However I was kinda hoping there would be some sort of questions at the end, whether to me or someone else... but meh... I already asked in regards to me...

[Patrick]

Votecount

Setael (1) -- Porochaz
Porochaz (5) -- scotmany12, YvonneSeer, eldarad, Gorrad, Setael
Gorrad (4) -- JDodge, Yosarian2, Bookitty, Mizzy

Not voting: Ether
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Yosarian2]

At this point, I'm still thinking Gorrad is more scummy then Porochaz, personally.

[Mizzy]

At this point, I'm still thinking Gorrad is more scummy then Porochaz, personally.

Do you think they are both likely to be scum? If yes, it doesn't really matter which dies first. If not, speak up and say something more useful.

[Yosarian2]

At this point, I'm still thinking Gorrad is more scummy then Porochaz, personally.

Do you think they are both likely to be scum? If yes, it doesn't really matter which dies first. If not, speak up and say something more useful.

I think there's a reasonable chance they're both scum. I also think there's a chance that Setael and Gorrad are scum together, and that Setael is trying to get Porochaz lynched instead of Gorrad, which would make Porochez town.

Let's say I think even though either one would be a decent lynch, that I tend to think that the odds of Gorrad being scum are higher then the odds of Porochez being scum.

[eldarad]

Slightly more readable thoughts:

Porochaz

Die Scum. Oh, you want a case?
There are 2 occasions I can think of where you either twisted or simply made up a quote in order to attack someone:
1) YvonneSeer "admitted to being scummy"
2) LuluBelle "blamed the town for making her lurk"

Forgetting that you claimed vanilla townie doesn't look good for you.
Also, I do think you've been caught out twice. Once by Lulubelle

Seems to me that attention on either of us can only be "unwarrented" - and you do seem to love that word - if you

[Porochaz]

know for a fact that both of us are pro-town.

and once by JDodge

Here you essentially say "yeah, they target me, they die, but I don't see what your point is" as opposed to "they won't die if they target me"

Some questions for you:
Why are you voting for Setael rather than Gorrad?
Are you worried that voting for the rival wagon will look scummy?
Would you like to comment on the two quotes I just posted?

Gorrad

OK, I don't think that nonchalent hammers are inherently scummy. But I do find your defence a bit odd.
If you genuinely didn't think there was a cop, you could have said "I don't think the scum will have given us a cop" and the town would have discussed it.
Yvonne pushed this very hard at the beginning of the day, but then just dropped it as the rest of the town weren't really following her. I don't really know how that happened but I bet the scum couldn't believe their luck.

I almost fell off my chair when you were angling to hammer Porochaz recently.

I currently think these two (Gorrad & Porochaz) are scumbuddies who are trapped between bussing and distancing. I think a Porochaz lynch will be more informative than a Gorrad lynch. IMO, after the Day 1 hammer the scum will have been expecting Gorrad to die and so they'll have kept their distance today. Any scum-links that exist today will be between the other two scum.

Mizzy

You're very lucky you got a confirmable role. I suppose it may be a confirmed townie having a bit of fun before claiming, but each post you made on Day 2 until your claim looked scummier than the last.

LuluBelle / JDodge

It hasn't been said yet, and I wonder why.

One of these two are lying.

You realize what I know.

NOTE TO EVERYONE

: I just headed off that fakeclaim before it happened. Please note that Lulu knows more than she should, but has admitted to not being a weak doc. That implies knowledge she could not have unless she already knows who the weak doc's target is.

The exchange between LuluBelle and JDodge suggests that LuluBelle has some knowledge of who the weak doc targeted. But it also indicates that JD also has some knowledge of the weak doc's actions, or else he wouldn't have been able to lock Lulu out of the half-claim that she started to make.
Let's follow this train of thought shall we?
JD and Lulu both have some knowledge of the weak doc's night action.
Only one of them can be the weak doc.
Therefore, one of them is mafia.
Therefore,

the mafia already know who the weak doc is.

Therefore,

Okay, so the advantage of JDodge's plan over mine,

assuming the scum haven't spotted the weak doc

, is that they can't be certain of which player is actually being targetted, so they can't no kill if it turns out to be scum.

this plan is broken.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy

You're very lucky you got a confirmable role. I suppose it may be a confirmed townie having a bit of fun before claiming, but each post you made on Day 2 until your claim looked scummier than the last.

I was trying to leave a trail as to my role in case something happened, and I was hoping people would catch on enough that I wouldn't feel the need to claim. It backfired, obviously, and lesson learned, but I wouldn't have acted that way had I not been this specific power role.

[Ether]

I sort of think that if Gorrad and Porochaz were both scum, the day would be over by now. (On that note, if they

are

both scum, the third scumbag is currently voting Porochaz.)

Also,

vote: Gorrad

.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Setael (1) -- Porochaz
Porochaz (5) -- scotmany12, YvonneSeer, eldarad, Gorrad, Setael
Gorrad (5) -- JDodge, Yosarian2, Bookitty, Mizzy, Ether

Not voting: Nobody
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Ether]

Shit, and before I forget--someone remind me why we've been encouraging the weakdoc to target probscum.

[scotmany12]

We are encouraging the weakdoc(if we have one) to protect a probscum? The only person I saw do this was Gorrad, who suggested that he should be targeted tonight, which I have not mention till now, but that was a really scummy post where he did that.

[Mizzy]

We are encouraging the weakdoc(if we have one) to protect a probscum? The only person I saw do this was Gorrad, who suggested that he should be targeted tonight, which I have not mention till now, but that was a really scummy post where he did that.

The weakdoc should target who they think they best target is for it. There's a high chance they will die, and eldarad is correct and the mafia know who that person is, then we may not know

how

they died because the mafia kill and a mis-protect kill will look the same. I'd suggest the weakdoc protect a prob-town...it's safer. Not my call, though.

[Yosarian2]

LuluBelle / JDodge

It hasn't been said yet, and I wonder why.

One of these two are lying.

...


The exchange between LuluBelle and JDodge suggests that LuluBelle has some knowledge of who the weak doc targeted. But it also indicates that JD also has some knowledge of the weak doc's actions, or else he wouldn't have been able to lock Lulu out of the half-claim that she started to make.
Let's follow this train of thought shall we?
JD and Lulu both have some knowledge of the weak doc's night action.
Only one of them can be the weak doc.
Therefore, one of them is mafia.
Therefore,

the mafia already know who the weak doc is.

Therefore, is that they can't be certain of which player is actually being targetted, so they can't no kill if it turns out to be scum.

this plan is broken.[/quote]

No. I'm pro-town (I'm Lulu's replacement), and I have a strong gut feeling Jdodge is also pro-town at this point.

I don't think anyone was lying. I think it's best for me to not comment on your weak doc speculations at this point, but let me just say that I tend to think that one and/or both of them were just being confusing or wierd or something. The whole exchange was bizzare, and frankly I'm not sure what Lulu thought she was trying to do there; the whole thing confused the hell out of me during my re-read, and I have her role PM.

[Yosarian2]

Shit, and before I forget--someone remind me why we've been encouraging the weakdoc to target probscum.

Wait...who's telling the weak doc to do that?

[Bookitty]

Ok..so, I gather this is the situation:

1. There's a scum kill missing. Either the scum chose not to kill, or the kill was prevented by one of the two possible doc roles either one of which might or might not be in the game, the weak cop probably being more likely.

2. If the hypothetical weak cop targets scum tonight, the weak cop dies.

3. Therefore, the stratagy Jdodge is suggesting is that everyone play hypothetical weak cop, and states that if they are the weak cop, who they would have protected yesterday and who they will protect tonight.

Makes sense. The big problem is that if the weak cop did prevent the scum kill from last night, then that claim will almost certanly give him or her away and get him killed, and that also makes the "who will they target tonight" info much less useful.

Hmm. I guess the question is, what is more useful to the town right now? The weak doc's innocent from last night, or the possible info a weak doc might get tommorow night, or keeping the weak doc alive? If it's #1, then we either want the weak cop to claim or everyone to play hypo-weak cop like Jdodge is suggesting; if it's #2, then the best bet would be to have everyone claim what they'll do tommorow but not last night, and if it's #3, then it's best to not have anyone claim anything at all, and let the weak cop choose what to do while suggesting the masons might be good doc targets. DOes that about sum the debate up?

That's the reasoning behind it. If the scum have spotted the weak doc (and I by no means think there's 100% chance that they have) then the best bet we have is that now we have the weak doc's innocent from last night and the weak doc is dead anyway, no matter what we do. If the scum haven't spotted them, or have made a mistake, then we have either another innocent, or two kills and a possible mislynch.

This has all been discussed before, and I thought everyone was clear on the various plans. No one is telling the weak doc who to target. They've decided that on their own.

[Ether]

...eh. Never mind.

[Patrick]

I've prodded everyone who hasn't yet posted on this page.

[YvonneSeer]

Besides, the scum know for sure that he is a cop, that he has 50% chance of being sane and that there is a hidden doc somewhere out there.

Wait, how do the mafia know that there is a doc out there? Or rather, how do you know there is a doc out there?

eldarad, your post 974 is a real killer. I barely managed to finish it. Anyway, maybe it's because you weren't here from the start of the game, but the mafia chose our powerroles. So, if there's a doc out there, they'll know because they gave it to us.

[Gorrad]

Yup, still here. Good posts, eldrad, nothing that I need to cover, I believe.

[scotmany12]

If no one objects to me hammering Gorrad, then I plan on doing so after elderad gives his protection choice for tonight. He does not need to give one for the first night, as jordan already gave one. BTW, I assume everyone who said they would protect lulu or jordan are now going to protect yos or elderad.

[Gorrad]

I object to you hammerin Gorrad.

[scotmany12]

If no one objects besides Gorrad...

[Mizzy]

If no one objects besides Gorrad...

Well, you weren't specific Can't blame him for trying.