If there is an agreement. Well, there is almost an agreement on Opie, so we've already fullfiled this condition. Also, I see no reason that another agreement with be any more likely to hit scum.Erg0 wrote:There's nearly a week until deadline and activity is high, we have plenty of time to swing another lynch if there's agreement.
WEEEEELLLLLLL SHIT! If you know who the scum are to force a claim from them WHY DON'T WE JUST LYNCH THEM! The problem is that claiming is a double-edged sword, if we hit scum, well that could work, (unless they claim cop and there is none so they get away with it etc.) but we have just as much chance hitting town (more chance, acutally). To make a claim a good thing for the town, we need to know who the scum are. So if we knew who the scum were to force them to claim, then we wouldn't need to, we could jsut lynch them.Erg0 wrote: A second claim won't harm us if it's a forced claim from scum.
I'm sure people are just worried about you hitting them.Erg0 wrote:If nobody's comfortable hammering then nobody should.
You're missing my point - I'm not saying that there isn't agreement on opie (though I could argue that a couple of the votes on him have been pretty wagonny). What I'm saying is that "we don't have time to form another wagon" is not a valid argument for hammering opie, or for pressuring others to do so. Both Adel and Guardian have tried to present opie's lynch as a foregone conclusion, which it isn't.Oman wrote:If there is an agreement. Well, there is almost an agreement on Opie, so we've already fullfiled this condition. Also, I see no reason that another agreement with be any more likely to hit scum.Erg0 wrote:There's nearly a week until deadline and activity is high, we have plenty of time to swing another lynch if there's agreement.
Again, my point is that saying "we shouldn't have another claim on day 1" is not an excuse for a bad lynch. If I think that someone else is scum then I see no harm in getting a claim from them, regardless of how many players have claimed previously.Oman wrote:WEEEEELLLLLLL SHIT! If you know who the scum are to force a claim from them WHY DON'T WE JUST LYNCH THEM! The problem is that claiming is a double-edged sword, if we hit scum, well that could work, (unless they claim cop and there is none so they get away with it etc.) but we have just as much chance hitting town (more chance, acutally). To make a claim a good thing for the town, we need to know who the scum are. So if we knew who the scum were to force them to claim, then we wouldn't need to, we could jsut lynch them.Erg0 wrote: A second claim won't harm us if it's a forced claim from scum.
Essentially, Lycnhes won't harm us if its a forced lynch on scum.
Given the level of encouragement, I'd be very surprised if anyone's feeling worried about hammering. They've basically been given a free pass to do so by those on the wagon, which is seriously not helpful. Xyl and ChaosOmega have already been allowed to get away with majorly wagonny votes on opie, encouraging another player to make an easy vote is just making things worse.Oman wrote:I'm sure people are just worried about you hitting them.Erg0 wrote:If nobody's comfortable hammering then nobody should.
IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR A HAMMER, I'LL UNVOTE AND YOU CAN -1 HIM THEN I'LL HAMMER!
We don't have time (IMO) to form a wagon BETTER than Opiewagon or, to be more factual, more likely of assiting the town to find scum (including the wagonee being scum (as opie is))Erg0 wrote:What I'm saying is that "we don't have time to form another wagon" is not a valid argument for hammering opie, or for pressuring others to do so. Both Adel and Guardian have tried to present opie's lynch as a foregone conclusion, which it isn't.
Let me play Devil's Advocate here and say, okay, Opie is lynched and OpieErg0 wrote:In my eyes, another wagon would be more likely to hit scum simply because I don't like this one.
Why should your thoughts on who is scum be more valid then ours? I think we need to review what claiming is for. To me, claiming is to make sure the town isn't going to lynch a powerrole. Claiming is not a scumhunting tool, because counter-claiming outs your powerrole anyway. Claiming isErg0 wrote: If I think that someone else is scum then I see no harm in getting a claim from them, regardless of how many players have claimed previously.
Thats a fair concern, but i think lynching scum gives it the weight it needs.Erg0 wrote:Generally, I am concerned that the current arguments in favour of hammering opie seem to boil down to "that wasn't a bad day 1, let's kill the guy with the most votes and get on with things".
If there is anyone on ANY wagon who doesn't want someone to be lynched at this point, they shouldn't be on the wagon at all. I think anytime a player is at -1 and has claimed they pretty much have a free pass to hammer, no-one has unvoted.Erg0 wrote:They've basically been given a free pass to do so by those on the wagon, which is seriously not helpful.
I will review these.Erg0 wrote:Xyl and ChaosOmega have already been allowed to get away with majorly wagonny votes on opie
I get a strong town read off you if its any consolation. Though Opie's alignment will show me something about you.erg0 wrote:Bottom line, I don't like this wagon and I definitely don't like the attempts to gift wrap it for the last voter.
Adel is acting like scum who knows that opie will come up town and is trying to set up another mislynch for tomorrow.Adel wrote:Erg0 is acting like scum who knows that the opie lynch will go through and will be a lynch of a townie.
Which is it Erg0: are you scum, or is opie?
I'm iffy right now, but I'll reread him and let you know.Oman wrote:Dependent on one question:
Erg0: Is Matt_S scum or not?
Patrick wrote:After preview, Matt's last seems bizarre. Why would you rather have a second claim on day 1?
I thought you all were crazy until I looked back at my post. There should have been a not between rather and get. I don't misspell word. I leave them out.Guardian wrote:Why would you rather have more players claim than fewer players claim?
I mean this and subsequent naysaying. You're like: Well, I don't like the wagons. "Based on play", I find opie townish. "Overall", I find Guardian townish, maybe a little scumish though.Erg0 wrote:I've doen some re-evaluations now that I've got a little more time, and I've come to the conclusion that I don't support either of the current lynch options. Based on his play so far, I'd be surprised if opie isn't just what he says he is. This wagon reeks of the classic day 1 mislynch - opie's biggest mistake was putting his neck on the line by going after Guardian, and now he's become the easiest deadline lynch. Guardian isn't really giving me a scum vibe overall, though that attempt to create a false dilemma on the last page didn't help.
I've never been big on the idea of lynching you or opie, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point that I feel the way I do. There are two main problems that I have with the current options:Guardian wrote:You're not giving great reasons for your distrust of the wagons, just pointing at them and being like "well, I don't like".