Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[gorckat]

Arakorn- you have no suspicion of Javert?

Votecount;

Javert (1) gorckat
Arakorn (1) soupfly
gorckat (1) arakorn


Not voting; The rest of you

[Arakorn]

Less than I have of Gorckat to be honest. Why??

[gorckat]

To add to that, I'm 99% sure that we should lynch Javert or Gorckat, but of course you others are only 66.

But just consideration, as I'm not sure at all who (of gorckat and Neko) are scum..

Huh. What caused such a major swing:

The last time you posted, you said you were most suspicious of Gorckat, but that you didn't have any evidence. Has that changed, and would you like to update us?

No, no evidence, and considering that amount of post (since the last time I posted) I personally wouldn't be surprised of that...

unvote
vote: Arakorn

[Arakorn]

Calling a 50% suspicion to a 60-70& suspicion is a major swing?

[gorckat]

Not on me- the swing on Javert/neko.

[Arakorn]

Bllaaargh, never play Mafia with a hangover!

I meant Neko, not Javert...

[gorckat]

but when it's revealed that I am town you might want to take my vote into consideration.

If I believe that you made an honest mistake, why should we consider your vote when you've offered nothing to back it up?

[neko2086]

Arakorn, do you mean that you've always suspected me and not Javert? Maybe to alleviate confusion, could you point out which posts you mistook me for Javert or vice versa?

I'm wondering why you don't suspect Javert as much, then.

[gorckat]

Bump/kick/poke for the workweek.

[Javert]

Back from competition, I plan on finishing my gorckat analysis by the end of the week. I would ask that players not get impatient with this game; I would rather take the time to make sure we win than to lose because we were not thinking things through.

[gorckat]

Bump.

Anyone?

[neko2086]

I have nothing to say until Javert posts. Arakorn does not appear to want to help us in any way, and unless I can feel otherwise, I do not think he is likely to be town.

Do you have something that you'd like to say, since you seem to want to get discussion going?

[gorckat]

Not really, but the pace is getting frustrating. I'm mostly interested in Arakorn and Javert, for obvious reasons.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I agree. Prods will be sent out tomorrow as I got hurt today and am consequently nursing the godfather of all headaches...

[soupfly]

not sure what else do do. i think arakorn is the best lynch out of javert, gorckat and arakorn. i'll worry about javert vs. gorckat tomorrow...or at least neko will.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Arakorn will be away for a week or so. Javert has been prodded.

[Javert]

gorckat, continued

Starts off this half of the reread by voting for Gorgon based on Gorgon's Post #255, from what I can garner. Two things to note about this. Firstly, gorckat had posted three times (Posts #262, 267, and 273) before voting for Gorgon. This suggests to me that something occurred during that time-frame which made gorckat look at Gorgon specifically... which brings me to the second to note. During this time period was when the deadline for Day One was dropped (Post #268). This pushes me towards thinking gorckat's vote for Gorgon may have been influenced by the placement of a deadline. I have nothing against placing votes after deadline have been placed (obviously), but the lack of acknowledging Gorgon

until

the deadline was placed is what pushes me towards thinking this is more scummish than townish.

gorckat has a small conversation with Gorgon (over why Gorgon is not voting for Sikario8), and gorckat comes to his voting ultimatum in Post #297, narrowing his choices down to Gorgon, SirWario, and Sikario8 (though he does mention he sees the case on Pra which MeMe had just made prior to his post). Nothing wrong with this. Switches to SirWario (no reasons cited) in Post #314.

Blanket explanation for votes in Post #318. Probably a good post to keep in mind while assessing gorckat.

Unvotes SirWario to vote for soupfly in Post #327, no reasoning provided – and notably,

soupfly was not on gorckat's list of three suspects

. Arakorn posts, and gorckat FoS's him (for not having suspicions, from what I can gather). MeMe comes in to push a separate bandwagon on Arakorn in her Post #331. I will note at this junction that this is a fairly common scum-tactic; if gorckat is scum, MeMe would naturally push a different wagon: this would give the town

two

possible wrong wagons to hop aboard on, both of them being wagons

away

from Sikario8/DR.

Important Section:

neko2086 correctly calls out gorckat for his voting inconsistency in Post #332. gorckat responds. I think it reasonable to say gorckat was under some pressure at this moment in time (seeing that he knew he had deviated from his suspicions list), and then Arakorn raises the pressure in Post #341 by voting for gorckat, putting him at the second most highest number of votes (just below soupfly). gorckat then votes for Arakorn for "taking the easy way out" (strange, since soupfly was the "easier" way out).

It definitely looks like gorckat was floundering around on Page 14 in general once pressure starts to be applied to him. He then takes the simplest path to salvation; Guardian pops in to votes for Dead Rikimaru, and gorckat is perfectly happy voting for him in the very next post.

Contrary to what a good number of players think, this vote – more than any of the others on Dead Rikimaru – looks like the most likely to have been a bussing vote. gorckat was under considerable pressure (which he may have been afraid would turn into a bandwagon), so it would only be natural to vote out a partner who basically being

useless

the entire game. This would (of course) give gorckat substantially more leeway later in the game, since he could from thereon point that he had helped lynch the Godfather.

Also Important

: Even after gorckat had voted for DR, the posts can be read in such a way that MeMe and gorckat may have been trying to coordinate themselves into both voting for Arakorn (which would only work if they got others to vote for Arakorn so they would look justified also voting for him). In Post #349 and Post #351, MeMe explains why she is still voting for Arakorn. gorckat then poked at Arakorn a couple times in Post #356 and Post #359.

Deadline then hits without players having switched to Arakorn.

~~~~~~

The very first post of Day Two belongs to gorckat, he suggests that people start looking at votes, which is of course only going to make himself look better seeing as he had just helped lynch to Godfather.

Tarhalindur does his "lock on" in Post #379. Unfortunately we do not get immediate feedback from gorckat on this matter due to one his dogs dying (explained in Post #413). MeMe then lynches herself, and that's all she wrote. There is some posting after MeMe's self-lynching, but none of it includes gorckat.

Hard to tell exactly if gorckat's post indicates anything either way. MeMe's ending the day so quickly certainly had the effect of making Day Two pretty much useless in terms of scumhunting.

~~~~~

gorckat continues from his Day One comments in voting for Arakorn in Post #447. He then claims to have not remembered MeMe pushing for Arakorn in Post #452. Unfortunately, I do not think this is a tell either way: from what I understand, this whole

game

has been slow, and it is easy to forget things which happened months ago (although his not remembering

does

indicate that gorckat had not done a reread for some time).

gorckat unvotes in Post #459 to decide between Gorgon and Arakorn. Agrees with the "lynch Gorgon, vig MBF" plan in Post #466, effectively adding MBF to his pool. gorckat then extends his pool to include myself in Post #490.

This is followed by a bam-bam-bam voting of Gorgon by Tarhalindur, soupfly, and Arakorn. Gorgon claims vanilla town in Post #500. gorckat takes the time to FoS: MBF, and then after neko2086 votes for Arakorn, gorckat drops the hammer. He claims "soup should do what he sees fit", but of course after already having agreed to the "lynch Gorgon, vig MBF" plan, and just prior to voting

FoSing

MBF, I can definitely see these posts as trying to get soupfly to vig MBF.

~~~~~

Day Four begins (the first post again being gorckat), and he does the only thing reasonably left in his arsenal: he FoS's both myself and Arakorn in Post #514. I am finding it striking that gorckat has claimed to be suspicious of Arakorn since Day One, then on Day Four makes a Post #520post against Arakorn[/url], then proceeds to vote for me without explanation in Post #526. His vote boils down to "gut" and "he doesn't trust me", which are the simplest explanation anybody can give when they have one of two choices and

need to get both choices lynched

. I rebut, and I think everybody knows what this resulted in, so I will stop my reread here

[Javert]

I'll reserve judgment on gorckat until after I have done my reread on both Arakorn and neko2086. If I were to pick a page I think was most informative about gorckat, it would have to be Page 14, where he was simultaneously put under pressure near deadline, and eventually ended up for for DR.

[gorckat]

Longest. Month. Ever.

[gorckat]

I'm removing this game from my watched list. I'll try to remember to check it in a week or so.

Request for a prod, if it actually goes somewhere.

[neko2086]

Speeding things along doesn't really help us in any way, I'd like to point out

[Arakorn]

Arakorn, do you mean that you've always suspected me and not Javert? Maybe to alleviate confusion, could you point out which posts you mistook me for Javert or vice versa?

Just the ones on this page (page 24 with 20 posts per page I believe).

My suspicious-list:

1. Gorckat
2. Neko
3. Javert

[gorckat]

Breaking my self-imposed separation, but w/e.

Arakorn- do us a favor- quote and correct all the posts where you mixed up neko and Javert. I'm not understanding what mistakes you made.

[neko2086]

finished reading Javert's post

...after neko2086 votes for Arakorn, gorckat drops the hammer.

Just for clarification, I voted for Gorgon (who was being lynched), not Arakorn.

I'm not sure that his hammering here really means anything. It was going to be a Gorgon lynch one way or the other. Obviously, it would be beneficial for the scum to join the wagon, but I'm not sure their placement on that wagon is extremely telling, unless you're seeing something I'm not.

[Javert]

Ah, right, that should read "after neko2086 votes for Gorgon, gorckat drops the hammer".

I also do not believe the hammer vote in isolation really means anything -

somebody

has to be the hammer vote, after all. My posts are half summary, and half commentary: noting that he dropped the hammer is just summary.

What was more significant to me (and what I added commentary for) was that

prior

to dropping the hammer and going into night, gorckat took the time to FoS: MBF. This suggests to me that gorckat was definitely pushing for soupfly to kill MBF overnight -- and this seems odd when you consider the fact that gorckat has been consistently going after Arakorn, such that you would think he would suggest Arakorn being vigged at night over MBF.

Once again, this falls back on his strategy of "getting rid of the hardest people to lynch first", and in the case of MBF, getting him vigged means he does not even have to present a case for MBF.

{Of course, gorckat is not the only person who advocated vigging MBF, but at the very least Tarhalindur was -- like myself -- starting to doubt precisely how good the plan was; by hammering, these doubts could not be gone over in detail}.