Mini #556 - The Most Excellent People Ever - Called.

[PJ.]

Huge FoS: Lloyd

Why would you answer for someone else...honestly..It's ridiculously scummy, even more so in this situation. Also.."They wanted lynchs and I'm gonna vote for the one with the most votes" is just scummy. You go for who you want..not who has more votes. I hate this post and all his other posts.. Seems like scum wanted to reignite the RotN wagon.

[Lloyd]

I think you all are over-reacting to Thanto's claim..I still think he did it to jump start the discussion.

As for my vote for Ranger, I am voting for him precisely because he has more votes than Uzer. On day 1, there isn't really anything to go on, other than wagons, especially in this game where several wagons have happened.

On day 1, someone eventually gets wagoned. Sometimes, it happens before a deadline. More often, a deadline has to be imposed because wagons don't happen.

Anyhow, I don't buy the day 1 is useful toward the end game argument that a number of you mentioned earlier.

In fact, I think day 1 is the most useless day in mafia games.

[Lloyd]

The only thing it is possible to gain from day one is a huge amount of random conversation about nothing. In this huge amount of random discussion, it's likely that someone will say something stupid, and will thus be lynched. This stupid comment will not indicate that he is scum. It's more likely to indicate that he's sick and tired of how completely pointless everything that's been going on has been. Alternatively, someone will become tired of reading pages and pages of completely useless posting, stop reading the thread, and be lynched for lurking. This doesn't seem productive to me. To me, it seems boring.

Quoting because I'm finding this game's day 1 has been a good example of the above, especially since Urza was driving most of the discussions, and has since disappeared and needing to be replaced.

At this point, pages of discussion about Uzer and Korlash is basically useless, since Uzer's replacement will say that Uzer's statements about Korlash was for meta-gaming reasons, and as a replacement, he / she won't be able to speak for Uzer.

So, we essentially spent pages and pages going on about Uzer wanting to lynch Korlash on day 1, and it not containing any useful information.

[Lloyd]

When I wrote Uzer above, I meant to write Urza.

[UltimaAvalon]

unvote
Vote: Lloyd

[Lloyd]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

For what it's worth, I just nominated you for Vote UltimaAvalon in the Title Fairy thread.

[Lloyd]

you can learn stuff from bandwagons slipups voting patterns...the quality of posts...the rush to get through day 1

I'd like to see actual examples where examining day 1 actually helped catch scum in lynch or lose situations.

If you're in a lynch or lose situation, the town already is in a dire situation.

In fact, I would argue that the day 1 in that game wasn't useful at all. If information in day 1 was actually useful in catching scum, why would the game be in lynch or lose instead of having lynched correctly before based on information from day 1?

[Lloyd]

Day 1 breadcrumbs are easier to find when there is time to actually breadcrumb

I disagree.

While a long day 1 provide more opportunities to breadcrumb, it actually makes finding breadcrumbs more difficult. In contrast, a short day 1 makes breadcrumbs easier to find.

As for bread-crumming, I find them to be generally useless.

The only type of bread-crumming that I find useful is if two people crumb the same way (using same code) and then if one of them dies and revealed as town, the other deciphers the code.

For example: Mason A crumbs about Mason B, and vice versa. Mason A dies. Mason B decipher both Mason A and B's crumbs using the same code.

[Lloyd]

I read up from another game and no-lynch statistically helped us if we had a certain number alive. I had reasons for it, and for one reason or another it apparently wasn't viable. I retracted it regardless.

[...]

Recap: I read up that a no-lynch in a situation "Happily Ever After" explains this, apparently is really old, and I retracted it. No longer holds water.

If you hadn't retracted, I would have gotten on your case about the no lynch proposal.

I played in a game that was declared as "Happily Ever After", and the situation there was very different than day 1 in this game.

No lynch is only useful if there are 4 players - specifically 1 scum and 3 vanilla townies - left.

It has to do with 25% chance of lynching scum (1 out 4) versus 33% chance of lynching scum (1 out of 3)

[Lloyd]

Of course, there's the possibility of that (getting rid of bad players) would lead to the strongest personalities directing the lynch, which would be bad if those people were scum... But I guess that's statistically unprobable? I feel like I'm missing/forgetting something here, if you find something wrong, please point it out.

I recall someone once mentioning that mafia is about 25% guessing who scums are, and 75% convincing others of your hunches.

With that logic...On day 1 without information, it's of self-interest to advocate the lynch of a person (based on past gaming experiences) who you find difficult to convince in joining you in lynching someone else later on in the game. This approach isn't really applicable in theme games or games with investigation roles, and may be more applicable in Mountainous games where everyone is either vanilla townie or scum. Mountainous games really become a game of 25% guessing who scums are, and 75% convincing others of your hunches.

While the same logic doesn't directly apply to this game, it's along similar meta-gaming lines that Urza was trying to get Korlash lynched earlier...at least that's what I got out of the posts in this game.

[Lloyd]

3) There is no stone cold logic in this game, especially
what you said. I don't care if 75% or whatever ofthe time we lynch town Day 1, it still gives us more info than random voting and lynching quickly. It would also increase our chances of getting scum.

I disagree, unless I'm not understanding what you're saying.

Suppose the chances are 25% of randomly lynching scum, and 75% of lynching scum...

How does pro-longing day 1 change the chances one way or another?

If you mean that a prolonged day 1 offers more opportunities (time-wise) for scums to slip, doesn't it offer equal amount of opportunities (time-wise) for townies to act scummy and be mis-lynched?

[Korlash]

While the same logic doesn't directly apply to this game, it's along similar meta-gaming lines that Urza was trying to get Korlash lynched earlier...at least that's what I got out of the posts in this game.

*looks up from his Urza sucks posters* what? Someone mention my name?

Suppose the chances are 25% of randomly lynching scum, and 75% of lynching scum...

Speelcheck aisle 9?

My vote still stands until Jester tris explaining his scummy voteing behavior.

I know it's not much of a post but i hate not having one for too long. Oh well deal with it.

[WhoMe?]

i'm not seeing the spelling error in the text you quoted. Which word do you have an issue with?

[Korlash]

if there is 25% cahcne of lynchign scum and 75% chance of lynching scum then thats 100% chance of lynching scum... Which is impossible... Unless I'm misunderstanding what he said...

[WhoMe?]

he was actualy trying to understand what tyhess wrote, so we're starting to play chinese whispers rathe rthan mafia

[RangeroftheNorth]

I'm back. I'm sorry I've been neglecting this game, but I've been busy and stuff. I don't have much to add at the moment, but I'll try to put something useful either later tonight or tomorrow.

[UltimaAvalon]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

For what it's worth, I just nominated you for Vote UltimaAvalon in the Title Fairy thread.

For what its worth, I've had a much better sounding title nommed, and thirded for months, but thok hates me.

In other newsif you had made 1 long post rather than 10 short posts in a row, I probably would have toaken the time to read em. But you didnt. Ho hum

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Still waiting for Thanatos to provide an explanation for weird claim.

Lloyd: *presents Lloyd with a giftwrapped Preview button* Use it wisely, you should. Much power it possesses, hmm.

Concerning long/short day ones... For me, as a humble apprentice of the noble art of playing Mafia online, it would seem that information is good, and that a longer day one provides more information than a short one. Of course, after some arbitrary point it presumably just becomes a hassle, what with people presumably losing interest and the information hidden beneath layers within layers of disinformation and rants and I don't even know how to classify UA's posts (no offense.) I don't think very long day ones necessarily means a more likely scum lynch (especially after going through a bunch of them and seeing signs to the opposite, see a post of mine way back wherever), but I do think that we should have some options when lynching and not just lynch the first one to get a big enough wagon.

Glad to see you back, Ranger. Still waiting for you to defend that L-1 vote.

[The Jester]

Mostly pressure, and for seeing a certain reaction towards it.

LLoyd's posts don't make sense, lots of posts, low quality = bad bad bad.

Than claiming is bad as well.

Unvote

[PJ.]

Unvote:Vote:Lloyd

I like it here. RotN, defend your L-1 vote and Than needs to expalin claim, but for now I'm gonna be on Llyod assuming I get awesome reasons from the other 2.

[Korlash]

Hey jester, Low posting, low content is worse! Why don't you say more then "This is bad!" about something? How about defending your "pressure" vote too. Hell I find your vote just as damning as Rangers.

[The Jester]

I guess it is, and what's your point? I did say more than this is bad, drop your glasses again? I already explained the vote.

You must be blind, I've already done that, and I started the day with an option that I retracted because apparently it's no longer applicable for whatever reason.

Show me low content posts please.

[Korlash]

ok how about post 243... You say caliming is bad, low content posts are bad, and you *apparently* try to explain yoru stupid vote without any reference or whatever. Meaning the entire post was worthless.

Now back to you. Your orriginal vote on me, you say "pressure" yet you held off unvoting even while I was at L-1. Explain it this time.

[The Jester]

Claiming with no reason is bad, yes. What reference is needed?

I said it was to pressure you for a reaction. The post was not worthless, you trying to make it appear worthless is suspicious though.

When someone gets to L-1, a significant more amount of pressure is there. As I said earlier.

Take....Your.....Time.....Typing...Please....Thank....You. (Spell Check is your friend.)

- Sincerely, Everyone Else especially TSQ.

[Korlash]

man, your worse then stupid Urza.

Look you don't say something like:

Mostly pressure, and for seeing a certain reaction towards it.

Without some reference. Like, My reason for my vote is: or @Korlash: the answer to your question is... or perhaps a quote. Hence reference.

And then going around saying crap like "Than claiming is bad" is stupid and worthless. Everyone else has already commented on it, your only saying it to appear to be in the disscussion and trying to appear townish. Why don't you say something worthwhile instead of just repeating what everyone else did?

And how in the hell do you think L-1 is in anyway related to pressure? With how short a time I had between L-4 and L-1, I doubt anyone Scum or Town would have reacted in anyway differently then what people would classify as "desperation." Can you honestly expect me to believe your vote was for pressure? Not going to happen scum.

And how about a few less stupid insults of yours, and more useful crap. We have enough jackasses in this game already.