Mini #564 - Mafia in Crubtown - Game Over

[Talitha]

Morning all!

vote: darkdude

[Talitha]

Hi Akonas. Are you scum?

[Talitha]

unvote: darkdude
vote: Quantumfruit

4 (joke) reasons? In one post? Looks like overkill in (jokily) justifying the vote.

She just looks a little jumpy to me.

[Talitha]

Sorry if it sounds like I'm defending her overmuch, but it's only on the second page. (I would agree if she had done it on the first.)

I don't get why you would agree with me if she had done it on the first page, but don't agree when she did it on the second. Can you explain further?

did everyone miss this?

I still don't understand how you can justify a vote, even a random one, with what amounts to a double standard.

We only get one vote. A lot of times I have wanted to send my vote in several different directions, but you gotta pick one. Plus like you said, it was random and very early in the game. But definitely, note should be made of little things like that .. could be useful looking back on it once we are further into the game.

This post to me seems contrdictory, First you say it wasn't serious and then you give a reason that the post stood out more and go on to say mozsuggs post looked as if he was trying to make a 2nd vote appear more normal.

I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. Early votes are usually not based on any fantastic reasoning and as such aren't that serious, but still there can be reasons.

I tend to be long-winded. Where do you get jumpy, though?

When i first read your first few posts they came across like you were a little nervousand I wasn't sure why... but longwindedness might account for most of that.

[Talitha]

I agree. I'm a bit dubious of both the two main wagons right now.

Can we have a prod for YvonneSeer please mod?

Prodded - Crub

[Talitha]

I don't think defensiveness in itself is a good indicator of scumminess. I can be defensive as town or scum -- it's the fact that I'm backed into a corner and have something to lose that makes me defensive.

I also don't think windkirby has been

that

defensive. Damn, I'm embarrassed to think of some of the posts I've made in defense of myself... oooh, let's not go there. Anyway, I have yet to make up my mind on windkirby, but for now he's not on the list.

Cephir rubbed me a little the wrong way with his early dismissiveness of people's suspicions, but lately he seems to be sticking his neck out more than I would expect from scum.

My list of candidates for scum thus far:
- darkdude
- Zeddicus
- QuantumFruit

With that in mind, I'll stick with my current vote.

[Talitha]

Reasons talitha?

The people I listed were the ones who seem least townish. Sorry, I've been too tired lately to keep notes on people. Just going off general impressions.

[Talitha]

Shoot. I need to catch up here... Sorry for my slackness.. have been busy and not feeling 100%. I'll try and contribute something of substance tomorrow.

[Talitha]

care to explain why your general impressions mark me as scum?

It's because your expressed suspicions on people seem simplistic and mentally a bit lazy and.. what's the word?..

opportunistic

. I can elaborate if you want, but too tired right now.

QuantumFruit - slides down my list a bit.. in fact

unvote: QuantumFruit

Darkdude - I hate to try to lynch a newbie on the first day, but can't give out any free passes as this is a cut-throat game! Your reactions strike me as controlled rather than natural, and you're arguing about word use rather than why you're not scum.

vote: darkdude

...Dammit, after reading over his posts, I'm having second thoughts... He might not be scum. And he's new.

unvote: darkdude

vote: zeddicus

[Talitha]

I have no problem with the hammer or the moz wagon. (Heh, I still fondly remember playing Mini 69, where the vigilante got lynched Day 1 in just 15 posts... now THAT was a quick lynch.) But I would imagine there's some scum on the wagon somewhere. I need to read over the day now knowing that Moz is town.

[Talitha]

3 to 4 scum would be standard in a mini, but on rare occasions there are only 2 scum. We only had one kill last night but that doesn't necessarily mean only one anti-town entity. It could be one group of 2, one group of 3, one group of 4, two groups of 2, a group of 2 and an SK or a group of 3 and an SK. Did i miss any possibilities?

More tomorrow, including a vote, hopefully. Too tired tonight.

[Talitha]

I am sorry - work has been kicking my butt. I'm trying to read over, but my eyes won't stay open. Tomorrow I have a day off though so I'll be back when I've had some sleep.

[Talitha]

Wow. I hope everyone is clear on this already, but in case not:

If you are pro-town, don't lie about your role.

(The only exception is if you are 100% confirmable as an innocent... and even then, it's still not necessarily a great idea). I know it's pretty obvious, but wanted to make sure we all understood that.

Secondly, apologies all for mt sub-par performance so far. My life is stupid and seriously interrupts my mafia playing. But I had a day off today and managed to spend a couple hours reading over.

Re: darkdude
His day 1 posts didn't give me enough of a feel to make a judgement on his alignment. But today it's getting interesting. Like has been mentioned, I think it's weird he's so interested in getting a claim from another player. Also, he started the day saying he wasn't suspicious of VoD's actions, but that quickly changed when the wagon on VoD started rolling.

So, I can probably support this darkdude wagon today, but I'm not in any hurry to vote. After reading over I do have a couple of others who stand out... Cephrir & Vikingfan are with darkdude in my "Top 3 most suspicious".

When I was reading over, I didn't bother writing notes, I just made note of the numbers of the posts with interesting content, so it's going to take me a little time to make my case against these Cephrir & Viking. I would like the chance to do so, though, before end of day today, just so all my reading efforts can't be wasted Unfortunately I have run out of time today, and tomorrow I am tied up all day. I will get to it though. I hate to hold the game up but I think the more discussion we get today the better, especially if we branch out and consider a couple of other players.

[Talitha]

Bovine rump??! Well i never....

Cephrir continues to rub me the wrong way, by saying that pressuring a player is useless and retarded. When people make comments like this it gives me the impression that they already know that person is town.

Sorry, I ran out of time to make a proper post about it tonight..

[Talitha]

Hey, I'm not lurking. I have a real busy life (a busy job plus 3 young kids) and am trying hard to keep up with the game. But you shouldn't expect too much outta me during the week. Long weekend for Easter is coming right up so it's all good.

[Talitha]

I was going to apologise again for my quality contributions being few and far between but I get a little annoyed at people who obviously have all the time in the world to devote to their games expecting that others should be able to contribute as much as they do. Anyhow... I am home for the next coupla days... yay.

I'm starting to get why Cephrir & QF are saying that keeping on discussing the VOD hammer on Mozz is a waste of time. VoD, I can't understand why you want to discuss it so deeply, all the different permutations for "if I was scum" or "if I was town". We can go over all the possibilities until we're blue in the face, but I think we'll only know for sure after the game is over.

Let's see if we can generate more interesting topics: VoD - What made you decide not to vote for Pink Puppy anymore?

Darkdude:

By your logic (and those of a few others) I should have the following vote restrictions?

1. Cannot vote for a player when someone else already has voted for them
2. Cannot FOS without voting
3. If the above two rules are pointed out, I cannot change my mind
4. Breaking any of the above is deemed scummy
5. The only "safe" vote is when against a player who is found to be most likely scum by the town already

Isn't that a bit much?

Gosh, you remind me of people who just enjoy whining. The "rules" are as listed by the mod. You can do whatever else you like and I'm SURE you know this. If other people doubt the motives of your actions they will say so and that is what the game with mafia in it is all about - best get used to it!
You seem overly-concerned with yourself and how you are perceived. Are you actually interested in trying to lynch scum?

Cephrir continues to rub me the wrong way, by saying that pressuring a player is useless and retarded.

I see, especially when the guys are pressuring me....

The player we were talking about pressuring or not pressuring was obviously VoD. You seem overly worried about being pressured... do you have an explanation for why that is, DD?

[Talitha]

Vikingfan - why would you move your vote to Zeddicus. Can you please give me your step-by-step reasoning as to why his lack of posting this game day make him more likely to be scum?

[Talitha]

VoD & Darkdude,
Please also answer above question re: Zeddicus, seeing as you are both voting for him.

[Talitha]

Vikingfan - You threatenend to move your vote to Zeddicus if you don't hear from him soon, I want to know your reasoning for this.


Thanks QF


VoD - I don't think the condescension is necessary. I have never been terribly interested in your hammer, it is a null tell as far as I'm concerned. You want me to spend my obviously limited mafia time considering it further? No offence, but I'll decide for myself what I think is worth spending braincells on.
As it stands you appear to be leading a bandwagon on someone who is not here to defend himself and that seems a dubious option, and much more interesting to me than your hammer.

I also asked what happened that you suddenly switched from Pink Puppy, who you clearly indicated that you think is scum (#316 & #319) without any acknowledgement of it, and not even a stated unvote.

[Talitha]

OK let's clear up one thing. There is a difference between lurking and being absent or busy. Sometimes it is

hard

to tell the difference in this text based forum, but they are still different. Lurking is when someone is hanging around a lot but not posting, and lurking

is

often associated with being scum, in my experience. Being absent or busy is something that can happen to townies as much as it happens to scum.

Darkdude:

I think following your absence and consequent peculiar timing of posts (most of the time immediately after someone points out inactivity) deserves my questioning.

I was doing my best to check the thread and check in at least every couple of days, and just about each time I checked there was someone mentioning my inactivity. I can see how this could be mistaken for lurking, but in my defense I present the evidence that when I have some days off work in a row (as in this weekend) I am most certainly not lurking.

Darkdude, I am interested in why you are participating in a bandwagon on Zeddicus rather than, say, asking the mod to replace him. I think scum like to vote for people who are easy targets, rather than someone who will argue back.

Oh and triple posting? It's a habit of mine when I start getting into a game. Does it really matter as long as I'm posting?

[Talitha]

VoD - Thanks for the explanations.

And I think the reason that you're the only one still looking behind the day one lynching vote of yours is because we've all read what happened and drawn our own conclusions already. We read your explanation and either believed you, didn't believe you or didn't know. I'm one who doesn't know, but I doubt I'll be convinced into 100% believing you, as I will always keep in mind that this is a game of deception. So anything you say about it further is taken with a grain of salt and kinda unnecessary, IMO.

While I'm here:

Mod

Has Zeddicus picked up his prod of 10 days ago? Might be time for a replacement?

Yes, he picked up his prod, However I've also prodded him again 2 days ago and will replace him if he hasn't posted before tuesday morning my time (GMT+9). - Crub

[Talitha]

Um, where did I repeat myself? Apart from directing the same question to 3 different players who were all voting or threatening to vote for someone who is not here.... I don't get it. Back up your assertions please, Darkdude.

[Talitha]

And if I did happen to repeat myself, maybe you could

explain

what makes that suspicious.

[Talitha]

VoD: I think that overall I am contributing enough to this game, and have probably contributed as much or more content than several other players. I don't understand why I'm being singled out. If people disagree with me and think that my contributions are inadequate, I will ask to be replaced.

[Talitha]

Just noticed that Darkdude's "reread of recent posts", including the time taken to post the results took 3 minutes.

vote: Darkdude

I still have a couple of other suspects I want to make a case on, hopefully later today, but I'm rather happy with my vote right here.

[Talitha]

it is hard to see it being directed towards talitha. It looks as if you deliberately pulled that out to fit you case as the second part of that sentance explains who this is in reference too.

Hmm, not quite. I could see QF reading that post (#410) quickly and being mistaken as to who you were refering to. You did not use names or make it especially clear - and you were talking about MY busy-ness in the same post.

Your reaction to this talitha thing seems to me to be very protective and emotional not logical at all.

Some people just don't like to see other people being treated unkindly, if they feel they don't deserve it. It can detract from people's enjoyment of the game. This is a very mild case and I'm not too worried about it, but I'm glad to see people who care about others' feelings. As Mr Flay says, why can't we just lynch each other like civilised human beings?

[Talitha]

I don't want to talk about my supposed lurking anymore - the whole subject makes me grumpy. But I think it's cute that VoD thinks his roar caused me to be more active.

Since we're posting scum lists, mine is -

darkdude
Cephrir
vikingfan

(gap here)

windkirby
zeddicus
VoD

Ran out of time today to post analysis of these players, but you can be sure I'll get to it. (I don't want to incite any more animal noises!)

[Talitha]

Oh, genderless? I hope you don't mind being refered to with masculine pronouns. I tend to do that with mafiascum people unless I know them to be female.

[Talitha]

Any reason QF, Akonas and PP didn't make it on your list, Talitha? and if you simply forgot, where are they ranked?

I generally only list players that I am suspicious of. If I have strong feelings that someone is pro-town I keep it to myself at this point in the game, rather than paint a night-kill target on them.

[Talitha]

Well guess they're painted for NK now anyways.

Are they? I'm reasonably sure

you

would know.

it is a little bit dumb to rank players from least scummy to most scummy.

I don't think it's necessarily a dumb thing to. There are arguments for listing who you think is pro-town... eg. helping people get a read on you, or adding to the body of town knowledge the town will have when you're dead, or to help conceal a cop with an innocent result... but I still prefer not to mention it until closer to endgame, it's a personal preference.

Also please note that I didn't state that I think anybody is pro-town. Not being suspicious of someone is not quite the same as having evidence or strong belief that that person is pro-town.

[Talitha]

Why I think

Vikingfan

is scum. A recap of Day 1, by Talitha


In post 145 Zeddicus says: "we need to lynch darkdude now."

careful zed...I'm always leery of people who say we need to do things NOW... there is never a need to hurry. Longer days always help the town. Of course, there is a point where a lynch is good, but IMO, we haven't reached that point yet.

This post stood out to me. It strikes me as the kind of thing a smart scum would say trying to sound all reasonable, unhurried, pro-town and beyond reproach.
But look what he does next:

that being said, I'm sensing heavy scummy vibes from darkdude since he's overly paranoid at the moment and not giving really good reasons to go after Yvonne. unvote vote darkdude.

He joins the wagon he has just warned against! His words say one thing, but his actions say something different.
I think darkdude and Vikingfan could be scum together - I think vikingfan saw a wagon building on his scum buddy and did not want to miss the chance to be on the wagon early.

Then Akonas says that he finds 146 odd. Vikingfan replies in post 157

My rationale is that I didn't like the way that he said it, but on the other hand, darkdude is nowhere near lynching, so I didn't view as suspiciously as I would otherwise have, especially since no wave of votes occurred afterward. I do agree, though, I can't tell whether he just does that or not.

He's saying that he doesn't like the way zeddicus said "we need to lynch darkdude", but it would've been more suspicious if it had caused a wave of votes for darkdude. This just doesn't make sense to me a) because if a wave of votes had occured, we should be looking at the voters rather than the person who made the comment; and b) because Vikingfan voted for darkdude immediately after zeddicus's comment and would have been a part of that wave if it had occured.
Thus his explanation to Akonas reeks of poppycock to me.

this smells WAY too much like backtracking and trying to get the pressure off. unvote vote mozsuggs You're trying to get us to believe that you're just a lazy town player, but it's just as possible that you could be a lazy SCUM player. I agree with Akonas...tell us who you find suspicious. There's 8 pages of material here, more than enough to find something useful.

It's just a small thing but I feel like the vote for mozsuggs was slipped in at the end of a sentence because he didn't really mean it. Just a gut thing there.

Then Moz is accused of saying that everyone is scum. Moz replies with post 197 "Obviously there are only two scum!-use your loaf!" Then in post 198 he backtracks to question that and asks how many scum would be in this game.

2 scum? how on earth do you know that? 3 is generally accepted but there can always be more or less. but yes, there's generally MORE than two, but that's not a hard and fast rule.

Explain that very quickly because I don't like where you're going.

The "how on earth do you know that?" is very interesting to me. Remember that Moz is the person that Viking is voting for, so why would Viking say to someone that he thinks is scum "how on earth do you know how many scum there are?"... It doesn't make sense, unless Viking doesn't actually think Moz is scum.
Secondly I think Vikingfan is very quick to jump on this mistake, rather than consider it and qestion it. He stops short of saying "die Moz die die die", but seems to be trying to move things in that direction.

[Talitha]

You label it as being what a smart scum would say, but it's also what town

should

be saying

(bolding mine). That's exactly my point. Scum will say what they think a townie

should

be saying. Townies tend to be less concerned about saying what a townie should be saying.

This line of reasoning does not follow. Just because I thought him scummy doesn't mean I can't question him further, especially when it appeared to me that he had made a slip-up- I did not want to let him slide on it. Why can't I ask him that?

Of course you should question him. But you dodged my point which was that the way you phrased the "how on earth..." was not consistent with you thinking that darkdude was likely scum (which you should have thought if you were voting for him, and the rest of your post also implies you are suspicious of him.) I was pointing out the inconsistency.

BTW, do you have any comments on my other posts...you only took the first half of my posts.

I commented on all of your posts that I noted down as interesting when I did my re-read a couple of weeks ago. Seeing as you asked, I also noted that your post 263 was townish.


Iwon't indulge further in a wall of words fest with Viking. It's all there in black and white and people should make their own judgement. I want to spend my time on Cephrir next.


VoD: A weak case? Is that compared to all the other water-tight cases that have been made against players in this game so far?

[Talitha]

Yay - welcome EmpTyger!

I'm just checking in, I'll catch up with the game sometime over the next couple of days.

[Talitha]

I'm sick, see v/la. Can replace me if necessary

[Talitha]

I am nearly better from my violent but brief illness. No need to replace me and I'll catch up soon. Sorry (again).

[Talitha]

I havent quite caught up with the last 4 or so pages, so I'll go back and try to do that now.

VOD: Re your post 483 where you say that your case on Zeddicus is much stronger than my case on darkdude. I just wanted to acknowledge that what you say does make sense and I can see where you’re coming from. I disagree, but I see where you’re coming from. I don’t see bandwagoning as scummy in itself… especially Day 1. If I weren’t so busy lately I’d probably have been on every bandwagon myself. I think that looking for inconsistencies between what is said and what is done can be more telling

[Talitha]

And I have to say that I find VOD's attitude towards Emptyger (replacing Zeddicus) interesting. I agree that it is nice to give a replacer a bit of breathing space and not expect them to answer for things that their predecessor did... but VOD seemed to give up his suspicions (or at least put them on the backburner). Because even though they are different

players

, they are both the same

role

. So if VOD believed Zeddicus to be scum, he should have equally believed Emptyger to be scum (at least until he heard more from Emptyger). This doesn't sit right with me. It doesn't achieve anything for the town to let a replacement start with a blank slate - especially if they are your best guess at scum.

[Talitha]

OK, post 491, Cephrir does basically the same thing and gives Emptyger a "mostly clean slate". I am not quite so critical of this one as he gives slightly more of a reason for backing off, and at least Emptyger has posted a bit of content by this time... but it still seems a little bit like backing off because the target isn't so easy anymore.

[Talitha]

Talitha:

<snip>
Darkdude - I hate to try to lynch a newbie on the first day, but can't give out any free passes as this is a cut-throat game! Your reactions strike me as controlled rather than natural, and you're arguing about word use rather than why you're not scum.
vote: darkdude
...Dammit, after reading over his posts, I'm having second thoughts... He might not be scum. And he's new.
unvote: darkdude
<snip>

Specifically, what were the second thoughts you found?

If I remember correctly, it wasn't anything specific that I found. I just wasn't sure enough. Because I was lynched day 1 of my first ever mafia game and still bear the scars (:P) I often try to give newbies a break. If I am positive they're scum I'll lynch them, but after reading over darkdude's posts I wasn't quite ready to lynch him day 1. I thought he was new to mafia.

[Talitha]

VOD
Sorry to hear you haven't been well.
The pertinent part of your quote is where you say "...EmpTyger is not responsible for zeddicus actions". No you didn't use the words 'blank slate', but by not holding him responsible for the actions of his predecessor you are in fact giving him a blank slate, IMO. And I think it's suspicious that you want to treat Zeddicus and EmpTyger as separate entities, just because I don't think it's a natural reaction for a genuine scum-hunting townie.

Re: Akonas
I also think that Akonas' comments about darkdude are interesting. Not sure what to think there.

Re: PinkPuppy vs Cephrir
I could join a Cephrir wagon if the darkdude wagon doesn't get rolling. As i've mentioned, I wasn't a fan of Cephrir's vote on an absent player earlier this game day. I also found several of his posts on Day 1 suspicious, eg posts 42 & 53 where he seems to be trying to shut down scum-hunting. I also have posts 32/100, 142, 207 & 213 marked as suspicious (Noting that here as a reminder to myself to go back and see why.)

Re: EmpTyger
I am a little suspicious of Emp making a big deal out of the 3 mafia thing. I guess it's because I see it as a really dumb thing for a scum to do - to slip up and post how many mafia there are in the game - and I don't think Cephrir is really dumb. Am I wrong here? It just makes me a little worried, so I thought I'd mention it.

[Talitha]

Emp - Can you explain your skepticism about darkdude being mafia with Cephrir?

(Check in post here.. back in a few hours).

[Talitha]

darkdude: Why are you suspicious of QF for "trying to get (you) off (my) case"? Explain to me what you think she gets out of it if she's scum.

Emp: I just read your post 633 again. Can you explain why you think that Darkdude could be mafia with Cephrir, but not with Cephrir & Akonas?
Oh - nevermind, I think I see it now.

My opinion is that darkdude is scum... but IF he turns out to be innocent I'll be looking closely at Akonas. So I think I get where Emp is coming from.

[Talitha]

Obviously you would be her scum buddy in that case...

Then why haven't you mentioned me at all? Surely, in order for QF to be suspicious for defending me, you should have some reason for suspecting

me

in the first place. And as far as I can see, you don't.

[Talitha]

I am content with my vote.

(And should be around more often over the next week...yay!)

[Talitha]

It's good to have competing bandwagons but I'm not really seeing the case on QF.
Is this really the time to be trying to pressure someone to play a certain way, PP? Your QF vote (and reason) smells a little fishy to me.

Time to man-up and lynch darkdude. Deadline lynches suck, besides this day has gone on long enough, IMO. And I'm not seeing any townishness in his death throes.

[Talitha]

Hmm, I did think I was going to have more time to contribute to this game, but I haven't had a lot more to say at this point anyway.

QF - I have to side with PP on the voting issue... The vote is the town's main weapon, and also a great tool for outing scum. If you're not voting, you're not really pressuring anyone, you're not adding to the useful information that we have, you're not helping the game progress. I don't find it particularly scummy not to vote, but I do not think it helps the town to play that way. Especially under a deadline situation where someone is going to die anyway. It's not the time to sit back and do nothing. (Sorry.. this is one of my pet issues.. I can go on and on and on about it)

I'm going away in a few hours, will be back in one week... Can't see it being too much of a problem with deadline approaching. (IF I have a night choice i will send it before I go.)

[Talitha]

Just got back from a holiday... tired.. will catch up tomorrow.

[Talitha]

I would bet that Emptyger was a backup who became doctor upon yvonne seer's death, right? Otherwise, yes, I've never seen two docs in a mini.

The flavour text in the morning scene doesn't sound like this was a backup role, but I've never seen two full docs in a mini before either.

Of interest to me right now is the fact that Akonas, QF and Windkirby all expressed doubt that darkdude was scum, when I can't see what made them think that. Of course, they turned out to be right. WK was most explicit; Akonas & QF more implied it. WK seemed the most sincere... but he also seemed the most sure... sureness is a red flag for me, as it's the mafia who know things for sure. But I have to say Akonas is the most suspicious of the three for implying that darkdude is town then jumping on the bandwagon anyway.

Interesting that Pink Puppy claims to be the only one to attack Cephrir hardcore, whereas I recall Emptyger as the one most actively trying to get Cephrir lynched (It's easy for scum to attack each other with words then try and claim some innocence from that act.) I've just got my eye on Puppy for now.

VOD seems to be playing a lot safer since day 1. I will go back over the interactions between him and Cephrir as there might be something there.

But after listing the worthy suspects above, I am going to

vote: Vikingfan

I am not comfortable with how he has been flying below my radar, and I had him as my next suspect after darkdude and Cephrir. Further reasons (or an unvote) will follow, when i have some time for some digging.

[Talitha]

Why scummyscummyscummyscummy, Akonas?

[Talitha]

Okay fair enough, Akonas. No vote, though?


I'm waiting for something from vikingfan. VOD's point and vikingfan's subsequent silence, plus the fact that we had 2 doctors makes me think that my vote is in a good place.

[Talitha]

I've been prodded.

There's not much to comment on right now. I've been suspicious of vikingfan pretty much all game and I feel in my bones that he is scum.

[Talitha]

I think it fails because it pretty much implies viking is LOOKING for the vig/SK and that he is not it.

Which implies mafia to me... because

town would not know to look for a second killing role at that point.

I'm not sure I am thinking about this the right way. So anyone wants to chime in here, be my guest.

I bolded what to me is the important part.

As far as town is concerned at the point Viking said this, it was most likely a game of mafia vs town, because we only had one kill. I can't prove it, but reading between the lines of that post it just really feels like Viking knows there's more than one killer.. could be either because he's a lone killing role, or because he's mafia and targeted someone who didn't die on night 1.

[Talitha]

Welcome back darkdude.

It's been a busy week for me. I'll have time to catch up here in the next day or so.

[Talitha]

Darkdude: Just to be clear, are you denying any extra knowledge about killing roles in this game?

[Talitha]

While we're on the subject of windkirby defending darkdude1 (which I agree could be the act of a scum trying to appear very pro-town), I don't want to forget about Akonas who implied that darkdude was town, then apparently changed his mind and voted to lynch him.

So, who is more likely to be scum?
a) the player confidently defending the innocent lynchee because he 'can't see the case'
b) the player who agreed that the lynchee is scummy, but refrains from voting due to a gut feeling that he isn't scum
c) the player who (when referring to the lynchee) says he doesn't want to lynch another townie.. then changes his mind and votes to lynch

Trying to be objective, I think C is definitely the most scummy.... then A, then B.

[Talitha]

I don't know if it's just tiredness but darkdude2 seems different to darkdude1 somehow... I can't see a good reason to change my vote right now. But if I changed it would be to Akonas, with windkirby as 3rd choice for my vote.

[Talitha]

I am getting kinda frustrated at people not voting. If you're town, your vote is your main weapon.

Darkdude, if you REALLY think WK is scum, why wouldn't you vote for him?

[Talitha]

EK..uh,

PP

is making some sense to me...

But, (and I may be biased because she was nice to me earlier in the game) I'm just not feeling the QF vote. I seem to be able to sense scum females better than I can sense scum males, and here i'm just not. Also (and this is crap reasoning but that's how my mind works sometimes) if my bf was playing in this game and I was scum, I totally would have killed him by now, kinda like how I killed mith at thespival because he was sitting too close to me on the couch.

QF: If you were scum, would you kill Akonas a) early b) if necessary c) never ?
Akonas: If you were scum, would you kill QF a) early b) if necessary c) never ?

I'm nearly ready to change my vote to Akonas just because QF voted for him.

[Talitha]

I'm nearly ready to change my vote to Akonas just because QF voted for him.

Explanation: It's not because I think she's an obvious innocent, (even though I don't at this stage feel that she's scum). It's because she finally voted (woohoo!) AND she voted for her man. Game on.

[Talitha]

Why?

Because presumably she knows you pretty well.

[Talitha]

I'm confused. Did I say she was?

[Talitha]

So, I think both darkdude and Akonas are at L-1?

This is interesting. I kinda want to lynch both of them.

[Talitha]

Wow. Is it even worth reading over? 2 killing roles left... if they are 1 mafia and 1 SK, town might have a chance.

Mass claim time?

[Talitha]

darkdude
jenter
puppy
talitha

is my preferred order.

[Talitha]

You were vanilla townie in your first life. What did you think when you got your (current) role?

[Talitha]

Right. Well one thing is obvious, we have two killers alive and both killing parties are anti-town as they are both lying.

I am a townie.

If, god forbid, there are 2 mafia and an SK left, I need to lynch one of the mafia today and hope they kill each other at night. But with only 4 alive and 2 of them mafia, that's not going to happen.

If I'm the only townie left, I'm pretty much screwed anyway. But if it's 1 mafia and 1 SK left (reasonably likely given the number of vanilla townies in the game) lynching either one of them is an almost certain win for the other one.

I kinda doubt a townie would be voting at this stage... if we have 2 opposing scum I guess they are Jenter and darkdude.

But the only thing I'll be voting for today is a no-lynch... feel free to try and convince me otherwise.

[Talitha]

if we have 2 opposing scum I guess they are Jenter and darkdude.

That should have read "if we have ONLY two opposing scum..."

[Talitha]

I'm waiting to hear from Puppy before I vote.

[Talitha]

This is doing my nut in.

But I think what I wrote in my first post is correct. If there are only 1 mafia and 1 SK left, lynching either will give an automatic win to the other.

I'm freaking out a little that there are two mafia left, but I can't think of any possible way to win from here if that's the case. Been thinking about waiting for a deadline, etc. But that would basically hand it to the scum anyway....

Bah! This sucks.

vote: no lynch

[Talitha]

unvote

[Talitha]

Sorry, that looked a bit weird.

I suddenly got worried and wanted to think a little bit more, but I was in a hurry to go out and couldn't explain.

The way darkdude seems so willing to vote for no-lynch made me wonder why.

[Talitha]

It is a good piece of evidence in your favour.

Unless you are GF or SK with a night kill immunity.

How common are night kill immunities in mini games these days... anyone?

[Talitha]

How do you feel about JB's claim of rolecop?

Likely BS, of course. I'm not sure why you think it's important at this stage of the game though.

dd: Huh, I could've sworn no lynch was my idea. And I'm not sure why anyone (mod included) is in a big hurry. We're entitled to take time to think and discuss in endgame.

That said, I'm just about over it, and I was only ever going to vote no-lynch today.

I'm currently guessing that Jenter & PP are SK & mafia.. Jenter wants to lynch darkdude (probably because he thinks he's mafia). PP wants to lynch Jenter (probably because she thinks he's SK). Darkdude might be scum with PP or just a townie.

Anyways

vote: no lynch

fer reals this time.

[Talitha]

Whew!

and Yay!

Thanks mod & all.

Obv PP killed Jenter (the other mafia) last night. And we killed PP, the dastardly serial killer!

[Talitha]

What does a paranoid doctor do?

Thanks for running a great game Crub, you were an excellent mod.

[Talitha]

Emp, I was worried that the SK had a night kill immunity, was stalling firstly to make sure I knew who the other killer was, and then to try to figure out if there was any possible way to lynch them. Also the rules say that the day would've always ended in a no lynch, unless we got an outright majority.

Not sure when I figured out PP was the SK.. it was sometime during the last day. She played very well. (and I would've believed her if she claimed vig... but I don't think it would've changed the outcome.)