Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[ZONEACE]

im all for not lynching Jdodge, simply out of self preservation because i seem to be number 2 on the vig list behind him.


and seeing as how i'm not scum staying alive is my goal.

[Simenon]

I want Sir T to vig Sir T.

I think Sir T is a SK.

If he is an SK, it still is not the proper play to have him vig himself, silly.

i STRONGLY disagree

you're probably one of those people who doesn't think modern art is really art at all!

no no i am not one of those people why am i one of those people i am not one of those people.

but yeah, the play is to keep him alive until he does something we don't like or it gets too close to lylo. sirt can start by killing you tonight.

[Patrick]

Votecount

JDodge (3) -- Mastermind of Sin, Niv, Setael
Setael (1) -- JDodge
Korejora (1) -- ZONEACE
Mastermind of Sin (2) -- Sir Tornado, Bookitty
ZONEACE (2) -- Ether, Simenon

Not voting: Korejora, Elmo
11 alive, 6 to lynch. 4 to lynch at deadline.

[Ether]

Bookitty, my calling you a scumbag in the game wasn't intended as a personal attack. I still love you. (Also, Patrick tells me you're better now. So please come back to ScumChat.)

Please refer to the exchange, starting in my 2383 and "responded" to in your 2388. Note my repetition, along with some new accusations, in 2396. Most of them aren't really centered on MoS at all.

I'll quote them outright if you'd like.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It feels like people are making a conscious effort to avoid addressing the SirT issue directly, because I seem to be one of a very small group of people that actually noticed his complete lack of analysis today.

MoS: You are saying I lack analysis today. Would you show me exactly where I have "analyzed" anything in this entire game? I don't usually do that sort of thing.

I have been playing exactly like I am now -- albeit less aggressively -- for the past 3-4 days. But, MoS marked me as town based on that. The only different thing I have done today is attack MoS; and he's marked me down as possible scum

because

I attacked him today. This reeks of OMGUS. MoS should know better.

I disagree. I just did a quick re-skim of your posts, and I didn't really see much in the way of randomly voting without justification. For the most part, your votes seemed justified. It's not like you are expected to lay down a case with every vote, but the comments you've made up to the point where you vote generally show why you are voting that person. You've been a good contributor all game, and I saw several times where you actually agreed with me and even seemed to think I was protown. Yet, today you spent most of your time doing nothing but repeating that Setael2 and I were scum.

He seems to be depending on you to make his cases for him.

For the last time,

I was voting for you before BooKitty made a case against you!

My vote on you was the first thing I did today; and I haven't moved it since. That BooKitty happened to come across and make a vote on you didn't really influence anything.

For the last time,

when

you voted doesn't matter. The fact is, you voted without having presented ANY sort of reasoning, and BooKitty came along and joined you, making a case of her own. You seemed content to let her carry all the weight of justifying the vote against me, whereas I felt your reasoning had be at least partially clear on past votes.

I oppose vigging Korejora and Setael2.

BooKitty, I'm not asking you to justify anyone's actions but your own. I still want answers to my questions, though.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty, I don't think your argument objectively aims to seek the truth and find out whether my argument in MoS's favor is actually valid. You're just blindly trying to keep MoS on the agenda.

I am trying to keep MoS on the radar, yes. (Agenda is not a word I'd use, because I'm not certain he's scum, but I am certain that he's not confirmed town. My level of questioning is directly related to your level of insistence that he's confirmed town.)

Why did you care what MoS thought about my defense of him? It feels to me that you were hoping for

him

to tell me to drop it since you couldn't persuade me yourself.

It was not just you, it was you and ZONEACE together. When someone starts insisting *I* am confirmed town when I'm not, I get really nervous. He has agreed that he's not confirmed town. In his position I wouldn't be turning down allies either, but considering that if you're not the traitor mason, you don't have proof that he's town, and if you are, your opinion can't be trusted.

I don't like MoS's scumlist. I think it's basically a lurker list, which is usually a pretty safe move for scum. I think it's odd that he basically doesn't address Setael2 or Korejora who WERE giving content, puts one lurker as town and the other two as scum.

You just contradicted yourself.

I've already established that MoS is town, so no, I don't think Flare's vote can be bussing. This makes the votecount less interesting to me than it should be to a believer of SetMoS. Now answer me.

I already did answer this. I don't see the contradiction, and you haven't pointed it out. I do note once again that you're claiming MoS as town as a fact, not an opinion, and basing all your other suspicions on this first assumption. I don't fault you for making that assumption; I make similar assumptions all the time when I think someone is town, but I don't go around browbeating people who don't agree that this person is town.

If MoS is town, then by stating over and over that he's confirmed town, you've set him up for the nightkill. You're aware of this, Ether?

I love how you're putting the burden on me. I asked you what

your

take on that votecount was, and you asked me obvious questions to avoid actually answering. I asked you why Setael2 and MoS are scum. Your stance on MoS appears to be a pairing between him and ZONEACE/Elmo. (Also, you've been scary-lenient on Elmo in contrast to those other two. God, I hate vig politics.) And you've never answered for Setael2 at all--just asked me why I think she

isn't

scum.

I thought it was odd that you had stated suspicions of Flare/Setael all the way through, and then suddenly abandoned them to join her case on me. I thought it was a gambit at the time, so I didn't consider it that odd then; in retrospect, given your explanation, it seems much stranger. My suspicions of her were largely based on a case that I, at least, thought was pretty much a stretch. While I don't expect others to know my alignment, I did not expect others to discard their suspicions of Flare/Setael in order to join in a pretty shaky case on me, and you're right, it's made me pretty untrusting in general.

I have not been scary-lenient on Elmo -- I believe you're actually confusing me with MoS, who listed Elmo as second most town, the original cause of this renewed suspicion. I have not done so. Others have defended his contribution. Again, I have not done so.

I have a meta on Setael that I didn't have previously, so I'm going to tentatively say that I think she might be town here, and retract my vig request on her. I think JDodge will be lynched, and if it looks like a no-lynch I'm going to move my vote to him to avoid that prospect, so I don't see a point in asking someone to be vigged that I think will be lynched. I think based on a meta read of ZONEACE as helpful contributing scum that he's probably town here.

By process of elimination, that leaves:

Korejora/MoS/Elmo as possible vig targets. I'm good with any of those. I don't have a good read on JDodge, so he may well be scum.

Since it seems likely that JDodge is the lynch for today, maybe it would be helpful if people came up with vig lists on that basis, assuming they agree that this is likely. Just a thought.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If MoS is town, then by stating over and over that he's confirmed town, you've set him up for the nightkill. You're aware of this, Ether?

That's a problem how? I'd rather the mafia waste a nightkill on me than have the town do their work for them.

[Setael]

Ditto.

[Sir Tornado]

im all for not lynching Jdodge, simply out of self preservation because i seem to be number 2 on the vig list behind him.


and seeing as how i'm not scum staying alive is my goal.

OH, THE HORROR!

Do think this is survivor or something ZONEACE?

[Sir Tornado]

Er... Disregard the horror comment.

[ZONEACE]

lol i almost made the same mistake earlier with Jdodges post SirT.

And no i don't think its survivor, but staying alive is certainly one of my goals in everygame.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, so,

unvote, vote JDodge

MoS, you are wrong about me not voting without reason. I did it to White on D1, and then to you on D2. Also, please note that I am not the only one suspecting people without reason. Setael, you and JDodge are all suspecting me as sk without a valid reason to do so.

[ZONEACE]

Great, so i die tonight, DESPITE NOT BEING SCUM.

truly wonderful.

[Sir Tornado]

ZONEACE, but is staying alive more important than getting a lynch? No lynch, which may avoid you being vigged, at this stage gives us no information. Do you think that would be good for the town?

[Sir Tornado]

At this point, I suspect a survivor ZONEACE.

FYI: This is not what "obvious town", which you have been maintaining you are, do ZONEACE.

[ZONEACE]

YES STAYING ALIVE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN GETTING A LYNCH IF WE'RE LYNCHING THE WRONG PEOPLE. WHAT DOES VIGGING DO BUT PROVE IVE BEEN TELLING THE TRUTH THE WHOLE GAME AND ALLOW THE SCUM TO CONTINUE OPERATING UNMOLESTED.

[Sir Tornado]

How do you expect to win without lynching anyone? Also, I suspect you would be lynched tomorrow. Perhaps vigging would avoid the, well, drama.

[ZONEACE]

You know what, if he's scum then Vig me. i can live with that, if i have to die in a scum for town trade to make you all see what's going on then fine. BUT IF JDODGE TURNS UP TOWN I NEED TO BE ALIVE TOMORROW.

If Jdodge is town and you vig me, then we wake up tomorrow with 8 people and likely 3 scum meaning lylo.


Honestly if Jdodge comes up town i don't think you should kill anyone.

[Sir Tornado]

ZONEACE, by your logic, we shouldn't be lynching anyone. After all, everyone has a chance of comming town.

I am really tired of your tantrums, so just remember, that:

1) We are not privy to your role.
2) If you are town, behave like town would.

The only indication we have to your allignment is your actions, so, stop behaving as if your lynch/vig, if you are town is town's fault. It would be your own for not playing well enough.

[Sir Tornado]

My last post was made before I read ZONEACE'S last post, so read it before you read ZONEACE's last post.

[ZONEACE]

its certainly the fault of everyone who votes for me/vig's me. CONSIDERING THERE ARE SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER TARGETS.

but really, if jdodge is town and there are 2 deaths tomorrow night, you're clearly not a vig and instead a sk.

[ZONEACE]

My last post was made before I read ZONEACE'S last post, so read it before you read ZONEACE's last post.

does that mean you agree with that post?

[Sir Tornado]

You know what, if he's scum then Vig me. i can live with that, if i have to die in a scum for town trade to make you all see what's going on then fine. BUT IF JDODGE TURNS UP TOWN I NEED TO BE ALIVE TOMORROW.

If Jdodge is town and you vig me, then we wake up tomorrow with 8 people and likely 3 scum meaning lylo.


Honestly if Jdodge comes up town i don't think you should kill anyone.

It isn't much of LYLO with 4 masons in those 8. Assuming 3 scum (required for lylo), and aggreement to not lynch masons, you have 3 scum in 4 people. Surely, it isn't that hard.

[ZONEACE]

so now theres no possibility of a scum mason?

interesting that you just discounted that completely

[Sir Tornado]

its certainly the fault of everyone who votes for me/vig's me. CONSIDERING THERE ARE SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER TARGETS.

but really, if jdodge is town and there are 2 deaths tomorrow night, you're clearly not a vig and instead a sk.

ZONEACE, you think Korejora (your choice for vig) is better target than you in eyes of the town? Why?

I am not going to forego a vig, not if we are treating the vig as an extra lynch. Besides, it is likely I would be NKed, so you won't have to worry about my allignment tomorrow.