JDodge wrote:anybody want to say anything before i hammer?
Yes, actually...
OK, big analysis post. I've basically read the whole thread from start to finish and made note of anything noteworthy. Because of this, some stuff will be out-of-date and/or contradictory with other stuff I noted earlier. Good luck reading it...(word count is 3294 words!). First:
unvote
(for dramatic effect, you'll see later)
Pregame
I'm not sure how reliable any stuff from this stage is, but I read it so I may as well analyse it. IMO Encyptor is clearly the first choice. For the other choice, I'm not so sure, but I guess GF is as good as any.
Ether starts scumhunting.
(Good. But, as I say, I'm not convinced that this stage is a reliable source of information. I'd have been disappointed if someone hadn't tried it though.)
Also noted the WIFOM from Bookitty - "the scum won't have given us a cop" - if I was scum I would have without a second thought.
Day 1
bookitty wrote:I was willing to put my own opinions on the line and post first. Other people disagreed, and I thought their reasoning was better than mine. You didn't put your opinions on the line at all, you just attacked mine, even though my original thoughts were the same as yours. I'd like your reasoning on this.
Damn. That is a good post. But erm, yeah.
Ether wrote:You can vote if you'd like to, you know.
I just had to quote this. Because of the irony, you know?
Dragonprincess thinks that bookitty truly has been making an effort to answer ether's questions. Votes Ether
(OK, this is just horrendous bandwagoning. And the first genuinely scummy post I have come across.)
YvonneSeer wrote:Oh no, the skitzer wagon is broken! Hopping onto the Ether one now.
That was a joke, right? Ha ha.
JD thinks skitzer just admitted to being scum.
(erm...no he didn't...)
skitzer wrote:I think the big tizzy between you and Bookitty was just that, a tizzy. It just seemed to be a big misunderstanding/argument, I don't think either is scum right now, though this is something to be noted.
How can you say that? Clearing two people without any basis for doing so strikes me as scummy.
I like Bookitty's vote for scot in post 148.
Setael replaces in. The two interesting things from her initial post:
Setael wrote:Perfect seems to want to support the wagon without having to contribute a vote, or actually read the case on skitzer at all.
Setael wrote:Ironically, this is Yvonne giving "voteless support" of Ether's case on Perfect. Could be distancing. I would be willing to vote Yvonne as well.
Jordan's Analysis in post 189 wrote:How the hell is acting scummy if you are town beneficial to town? All we do is chase after you, wasting time and pages, on questioning a townie, which allows the scum to go about unchecked. And if we lynch you because of it, and you're town, then we waste a lynch, and the town is much worse off for it. I don't really believe you're town deliberatly acting scummy.
I'm aware that I'm replacing Jordan so I don't really want to be attacking him, but I don't really agree with this. Yvonne wasn't acting scummy, but she was trying to disrupt two players from monopolising the discussion. So I'm OK with what she did there.
Also, if you don't think she is town deliberately acting scummy then the alternative is that she is scum deliberately acting scummy. Which makes no sense.
Jordan wrote:Scotmany: Looking through his posts, the most notable thing I can find is that very few of them are notable, he just seems to be sitting there, usually going along with general opinion, sometimes disagreeing with ideas, sometimes asking people to respond to other people's questions, and generally not drawing attention to himself.
I completely agree with this.
Patrick, at 22 minutes to midnight on 31st December wrote:Guys, I'd just like to point out that I'm eating christmas pudding ice cream right now. Yep.
How did everyone miss this post?!
Lulubelle doesn't want to make an exhaustive person-by-person analysis. She agrees with some people, and disagrees with others, without specifying which things she agreed with or which ones she disagreed with.
(Awful. I really dislike this post)
Bookitty wrote:It's certainly not what I thought of, when I read Setael's comment, but it
[Mizzy's response]
was oddly conciliatory and in my view was a fairly serious scumtell, given the combative nature of her responses to you for what was essentially the same case.
I saw that as well. Mizzy's post didn't gel with what she had been saying previously. But I accept that someone replacing out to avoid pressure is neither a towntell or a scumtell.
Mizzy wrote:Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain myself one last time before moving on from this completely pointless and distracting wagon and doing some more scumhunting.
You don't get to choose when we stop questioning you.
YvonneSeer wrote:Countless times I've been misrepresented and apparently I admitted to being scummy. I never said that.
Porochaz said that Yvonne had "admitted to being scummy" several times. Which is just a lie.
Lulubelle wrote:scotmany wrote:What gets to me from lullubelle is that it seems she is willing to lynch Yvonne simply for the fact that she may seem like a distraction. Nonhelpful=/=scum... What I see in that post is urgency to end this day...
Did I say I wanted to lynch her? I believe I said I was strongly considering putting her at L-1.
Whilst I accept there are many possible reasons for placing a vote, voting for someone to place them at L-1 strongly suggests that you want them lynched.
Mizzy thinks that Lulu's actions are part pro-town and part anti-town.
(Wow. Nice to see you're prepared to make a stand...[/sarcasm])
Lulbelle wrote:Seems to me that attention on either of us can only be "unwarrented" - and you do seem to love that word - if you
[Porochaz]
know for a fact that both of us are pro-town.
Nice catch.
*lots of talk about scot lurking and Lulu lurking.*
Skitzer makes a slip that costs him his life.
Porochaz reappears, and again fabricates quotes, this time to attack Lulu.
*Skitzer claims cop and is promptly lynched*
Day 2
*No night kills*
Ether votes Garrod for...what? Hammering? Or perhaps for hammering nonchalently?
JD thinks Bookitty is likely town and votes Yvonne as a hangover from Day 1.
Garrod votes Yvonne too.
Mizzy tries to nudge JD off Yvonne by pointing out that there are other
equally bad
people to look at
Mizzy says that she isn't defending Yvonne
(despite the fact that she is)
and attacks JD for his "let's lynch now" posts which she had no problem with yesterday
Yvonne wrote:You know what I think? I think you knew some players may unvote skitzer and you would lose your chance to lynch the cop, so you hammered. No doubt you would gain a lot of suspicion. 1 scum for 1 cop. Is that a fair trade? Did you discuss it with your scumbuddies during the day? I wouldn't know, I'm not the scum.
You were doing so well until that last sentence, which just seems...gratuitious...
(more on this later once I've finished reading I think)
JD pulls Mizzy up on her quasi-defence of Yvonne
Yvonne thinks Garrod quick-lynched Skitzer after the cop claim because Garrod is scum and knew the claim to be true.
Garrod disagrees with this assessment
Scot asks Gorrad why he hammered so quickly
Porochaz votes Mizzy for defending other people...
Yvonne attacks Gorrad for hammering (again). Also accuses him of tunnel-vision on Day 1 (despite saying repeatedly that she thought Gorrad was genuinely scumhunting on Day 1.)
Mizzy wrote:Right now, I am suspicious of everyone in here but one person. My point that I am trying to make is that pressuring the SAME person when there are others you could be directing to is not helping.
What a strange thing to say...
Mizzy denies defending Yvonne.
(liar)
Porochaz attacks Yvonne. Says that not pro-town is not the same as scum. Also, is not blindly following JD.
Yvonne attacks Gorrad again
Mizzy absolves herself of responsibility for the skitzer lynch because other people were voting too
Mizzy suggests that town can form alliances with each other
(yuk. It's possible, but since one townie doesn't know if the other allies are townies too, it's a pretty crappy alliance, isn't it?)
Yvonne continues to attack Gorrad, and extends this to Porochaz for his intervention. Scot is now looking good.
Mizzy didn't want the day to end, rather she wanted the scum dead.
(hmm)
Scot repeats that Mizzy could have unvoted before the Skitzer lynch
Porochaz points out that the only town allies would be masons.
Yvonne - the town may have docs, etc
Mizzy didn't know that Skitzer was going to get hammered.
(Useful tip for the future - people on L-1 can be hammered)
Lulu reveals that she tried to unvote but was defeated by the grey screen of death
(do I believe that? I'm doubtful)
Porochaz says Mizzy could have unvoted. Also that he isn't defending Gorrad, he's attacking Yvonne
Gorrad explains why he disbelieved the Skitzer cop claim
(It seems like the town agreed that the scum wouldn't give us cop, and Gorrad's mindset is consistent with this I guess. Unfortunately I wasn't here pre-game to yell at people about how rubbish a half-sane cop would be. More on this later, if people ask for my reasons)
Ah. Mizzy's failure to unvote shows she is fallible, not that she is scum. Also appears to hint at a masonry.
Yvonne was clearly suspicious of Porochaz on Day 1
(really? Because I've just read the entire thread and taken notes on everything I thought was interesting, and I didn't pick up on that...)
Bookitty thinks Gorrad was stupid not scummy, and he was too blatant.
Mizzy twice avoids answering JD's question, although interestingly JD seems to turn a blind eye to the evasion the second time.
Mizzy continues to advance the idea that she knew there was a possibility of someone hammering but didn't expect a hammer.
Yvonne wrote:Besides, the scum know for sure that he is a cop, that he has 50% chance of being sane and that there is a hidden doc somewhere out there.
Wait, how do the mafia know that there is a doc out there? Or rather, how do
you
know there is a doc out there?
Porochaz now thinks that Gorrad looks scummy but other people look scummier.
*Mizzy claims masoniser and reveals Ether as her mason*
Hmm. Mizzy was number 1 on my scumlist up until now...
Ether confirms the masonry. Porochaz is obvscum.
Ether explains a bit why Porochaz is scum
<some talk about doc claim vs no claim>
<
snip - I originally had the doc-protect claims here, but following Bookitty's recent posting, I've snipped them
>
Lulu points out that we might not have a doc/weak doc
JDodge urges a potential-vig to claim now if it exists
Yvonne points out that the scum can deduce, or at least narrow down, who the weak doc is
(if they did indeed try to NK last night)
Yvonne and Mizzy express the desire to use the weak doc to investigate Gorrad tonight
Yvonne would like to lynch Gorad. Failing that, she'd settle for a Porochaz lynch
Scot votes Porochaz
(this is the 3rd vote on Chaz)
Scotmany and Mizzy have a bit of a love-in where they agree with each other about how evil Porochaz is
Setael thinks Yvonne is scum trying to reduce the smokescreen effect of the whole town saying who they would have protected
Ether votes for Setael in a suitably understated yet dramatic fashion
lol. Mizzy, your posts are funnier now that I'm not shouting "SCUM!" at my computer every time I read them. "Q: How are we going to protect the doc? A: We need...a plan!"
Ether and JDodge argue about whether the weak doc is protected by more protection claims, or by stopping now
Ether asks Mizzy to vote JDodge
Gorrad gives JD the benefit of the doubt. Thinks Yvonne is the best lynch today, but sets up Porochaz for lynching tomorrow.
Ether wants to lynch Setael
(I guess for her position on the weak doc claiming thing)
Mizzy votes Setael
Setael: huh? Also suggests that town should continue claiming who they would have protected.
Gorrad doesn't understand why Setael is suddenly a target
(perhaps because he hasn't spent the last 36 hours reading the bloody thread)
Bookitty decides to fall back on "the hammer was scummy" and votes Gorrad
Mizzy looks at voting records. Notes that the same people seem to have driven both major Day 1 wagons.
(I haven't kept track on votes during my read, and I still have 14 pages to read before I'm finished. There's no way I'm going back to check this...)
Lulubelle wrote:My opinion:
ABSOLUTELY ALL FURTHER DISCUSSION OF THE WEAK DOC ISSUE IS EXTREMELY ANTI-TOWN AND MUST STOP IMMEDIATELY.
Wow. And welcome back... She has also, presumably, found something out that she can't tell us until tomorrow.
(gosh, that means we can't lynch her, doesn't it?)
Has anyone seen the Beatles film,
"Help"? I thought about it when I read
post 644
JDodge wrote:You realize what I know.
NOTE TO EVERYONE
: I just headed off that fakeclaim before it happened. Please note that Lulu knows more than she should, but has admitted to not being a weak doc. That implies knowledge she could not have unless she already knows who the weak doc's target is.
This strikes me as one of the pivotal points in the game, and it's just been allowed to get buried. Will post my condensed opinions later, but rest assured that this is going to feature in them
JDodge is very, very sure that Lulubelle is scum
Mizzy is told to shut up. She doesn't seem to appreciate that...
Mizzy explains her voting trends analysis findings
(OK, but I think you'll find that your voting circle is really just the fact that two rival wagons have formed on both days, and people have come down on one side or the other. I'm prepared to be convinced, however.)
Porochaz talks about how stupid it is to have a town alliance.
Mizzy responds.
(I don't think Mizzy ever said that, although she mentioned a town alliance as a prelude to claiming as mason. I think Porochaz is fabricating quotes again)
Couple of votes on Porochaz
(up to 4 now, L-2)
Porochaz posts a...I don't know what to call it. I guess it's a "notice of the intention to defend myself"
JD votes (L-1)
Porochaz claims vanilla townie. JD unvotes.
(what? in response to a VT claim?)
Setael wrote:I agree that Gorrad and Porochaz are linked - either both town or (in the unlikely even that I'm wrong about Yvonne), both scum.
I don't really see how two townies can be 'linked' except through masonry or possibly some kind of investigative role.
Jordan appears and votes Porochaz (L-1)
Porochaz thinks that there isn't a masoniser.
(It's a tempting thing to think that, because Mizzy just reeks of scum. But I do think she's confirmed town.)
Porochaz chats a bit more, FoS's Jordan for not being around
Lulu appears to have painted herself into a corner with the JD/Lulu thing earlier, in that she now can't engage people in discussion if they say "it isn't the right time to discuss it" as she said the same thing.
Bookitty suggests we use the weak doc to investigate tonight
<discussion on whether the weak doc investigation will work>
Porochaz suggests the weak doc protects one of the masons
Bookitty - the masons are as confirmed as they can be
Mizzy points out that Porochaz has been hanging by a thread for a while, which makes it likely he is scum
Bookitty points out that if all 3 scum are on Porochaz's wagon, then the scum have no more votes left to hammer with
*Mizzy and JD "discuss" the merits of saying who they would protect if they were the weak doc.*
Bookitty does a good job marshalling all the ideas and keeping people on-message
JDodge wants to finish off the protection claims from last night
Porochaz supports Bookitty's plan
LuluBelle doesn't really like any of the plans. She suggests having the weak doc just protect someone
LuluBelle wrote:If they hit scum or are nightkilled, we'll still have their night one result from the last round of claims. There is very little chance for us to learn of their target in a reliable way beforehand because a weakdoc is simply not a cop.
Something in this quote doesn't sit right...Especially considering she very nearly claimed as weak doc before JD locked her out of it.
Bookitty wrote:Actually, this makes me feel better about something I've wondered about for a while. I have become less and less certain that Porochaz is scum due to his contributions, and I've wondered about a Scotmany/Jordan/Lulubelle scumteam. These people (with the exception of Lulubelle, who seemed to come under suspicion that didn't go anywhere) have mostly flown under the radar. I could be wrong, but Lulubelle's suggestion of a plan that not only doesn't gain town any further information, but also threatens to lose us the information we've already gained, is very telling in my view.
huh. Isn't this "scumteam" the people who are lurking? And, haven't two of those people been replaced? LuluBelle screams scum for other reasons, not because she was lurking.
*the town chooses to go with JD's plan*
*Yos replaces and goes and posts an analysis...stealing my thunder, much?*
Porochaz asks why his claim is unecessary (referring to an earlier Ether post)
(lol, he forgot he'd claimed)
Yvonne wrote:If you are a townie and you claimed townie, I don't see any reason why you would later need to question the fact that you have been left out of the claiming process of doc protects. It should have been obvious.
QFT
Yos starts posting his analysis in bits -
(by the time you've gotten this far through my post, you're going to find lots of things sounding familiar...)
Gorrad unvotes Yvonne, with the intention (presumably) of hammering Porochaz in the near future.
JDodge votes Gorrad.
Gorrad votes Porochaz, but is cruelly denied the chance to quick-lynch someone twice in the game
(which would be just awesomely title-worthy)
Yos finishes his analysis. Votes Garrod
<more doc discussion, this time with Gorrad and Yos>
<some scrutiny of the Gorrad hammer - which has been a long time coming>
Ether wants to kill someone
(I'll post some thoughts on this later)
Setael votes Porochaz, and dislikes this rival wagon that has arrived to rescue Porochaz
comedy vote from JDodge
Porochaz votes Setael, and points fingers at Setael, Gorrad and Yvonne
Setael thinks Porochaz is definitely scum, and may or may not have Gorrad has a scumbuddy
*general consensus seems to be that people have run out of steam, and just need someone to lynch for gods sake*
Last page is full of chat and, frankly, I'm just glad to have gotten to the end...
I'll post some more concise thoughts about individuals later. I'm also thinking about the weak doc thing. But for now:
vote Porochaz
(Don't be alarmed, Jordan was already voting for Porochaz. I just really like finishing an analysis post with a vote, and I forgot to unvote on my checking in post.)
