Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Setael]

I don't know that he has no reason for thinking you're scum. Are you arguing I should intervene on your behalf?

He admitted he has no reason for thinking I'm scum. He was questioned about it and said the only reason he has for wanting to vig me is that there must be 3 scum.

[JDodge]

It's not applicable to lynches because lynches can't happen on one person's say-so.

But I want to be clear, you're for the town directing the vig's play as a general rule. That's correct, yes?

I am an avid supporter of Pie's vig theory, so yes.

[Patrick]

Votecount

JDodge (3) -- Mastermind of Sin, Niv, Setael
Setael (1) -- JDodge
Korejora (1) -- ZONEACE
Mastermind of Sin (2) -- Sir Tornado, Bookitty
ZONEACE (2) -- Ether, Simenon

Not voting: Korejora, Elmo
11 alive, 6 to lynch. 4 to lynch at deadline.

[Bookitty]

Okay, fair enough, JDodge.

Right now we likely have two (possibly three) scum left and one traitor mason. Since Sir Tornado has taken responsibility for the extra nightkills, in my view that eliminates my theory that the untrustworthy mason might be an SK. At this point I want to note that nothing in my role PM said that there was only one untrustworthy mason. I think there is only one, but there's no proof of that.

So we have masons:

Simenon
Ether
Niv
Bookitty

and of these one is likely to be scum or traitor. Possibly two, but almost certainly one.

We have non-masons:

Sir Tornado - vig
Mastermind of Sin
ZONEACE
Setael
Korejora
JDodge
Elmo

Two or three of the non-masons are scum. One or two of the masons are scum. I'm betting on a total of three scum left in the game. No SKs, so all the scum are aligned with each other.

I'm doing a bit of lynch analysis, but my head hurts already so I'm doubtful I'll get that finished tonight. But more eyes wouldn't hurt, so here's what I'm working from. I've removed the votes of people who are now known town for the sake of clarity and ease of reading.

First lynch: Zeppo (town)

Mastermind of Sin (4) -- Setael, Battle Mage, Simenon
White (3) -- Sir Tornado, Toaster Strudel
Battle Mage (4) -- Elmo, Korejora
Toaster Strudel (1) -- ZONEACE
Zeppo (7) -- Ether, Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, Niv
Not Voting: Bookitty


Second lynch: Toaster Strudel (scum)

Battle Mage (1) -- Mastermind of Sin
Toaster Strudel (10) -- Simenon, Bookitty, ZONEACE, Sir Tornado, Niv
Not voting: Korejora, Toaster Strudel, JDodge, Ether, Battle Mage, Setael, Elmo


Third lynch: Yamahako (town)

Battle Mage (1) -- Korejora
Mastermind of Sin (2) -- Battle Mage
Yamahako (9) -- Ether, Simenon, Bookitty, JDodge, ZONEACE, Niv, Mastermind of Sin, Setael
Not voting: Sir Tornado, Elmo


Fourth lynch: Battle Mage (scum)

Battle Mage (8) -- Elmo, Korejora, Setael, Bookitty, Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, ZONEACE
Mastermind of Sin (1) -- Simenon
Korejora (1) -- Ether
Simenon (1) -- Niv
Sir Tornado (1) -- Battle Mage
Not voting: Sir Tornado

Maybe it will be helpful.

[ZONEACE]

So just for the record, ether and sim think i was bussing TS from day one? and Bussing BM? That i made NO attempt to keep scum buddies alive? Am I correct in my understanding of what you two believe?

[Elmo]

ZONEACE: Why do you believe Setael and Kore are scum? Are there any other people you suspect?

[Mastermind of Sin]

BooKitty, I have a few general questions for you:

1) Do you think protown people should not have to make cases against people they think are scummy?
2) Is it protown to just say someone is scum repeatedly without justifying it? It that useful?
3) Is it protown to be useless?
4) Is it scummy to be less active than other people?
5) Is it protown to ignore people when they question you directly?
6) Which is more generally scummy: A person with a low number of posts, 90% of which have substantial contribution, or a person with 3 times as many posts and 20% substantial contribution?

Note that saying something is NOT protown is *not* the same as saying something is scummy. I'm not asking if a person who takes those actions CAN be protown. That's a completely pointless question and an even more pointless answer, so don't waste my time with crap like that. I just want to know if you think those actions are in the town's best interest, aka protown. These should be fairly simple and obvious yes/no questions, mind you. If you take the non-obvious answer, I'll ask for an explanation.

[Ether]

I'm back from Cape Cod. Kore is win. Elmo is still probscum, but I'm happy for his sake that he's caught onto my new prodspamming campaign and taking initiative.

That scumbag Bookitty is still avoiding my questions to her.

Since he, like, asked, ZONEACE's votes on TS and BM were too late to give him points, and his avoiding BM up until that -1 works against him. I like JDodge's 2421, for reasons you can probably guess.

Hm. I remember there were a bunch of people attacking Flare, and then they've kinda segued away from that as Setael replaced in. I don't know if that's distancing or what, but I can't help thinking something's up with it - Flare's scumminess is the biggest thing in my mind, at the moment, and I'm now wishing I'd done more about it at the time.

I find this very difficult to believe.

I don't share Ether's sentiments about Setael; she doesn't feel qualitatively different to S&S2 from my point of view, although perhaps that's just a difference in how we perceive people. I wouldn't be surprised if she were scum here, at least.

Eh. I'll admit that what I noticed of her there was basically Day 1, and you'd probably be a better authority. But judging by your conduct toward her there as opposed to here, I'm thinking there

is

a different.

How'd you feel she's "blindly trying to keep MoS on the agenda"? I feel it's important that people question my own reasoning, it acts as a kind of safety net in case I slip up somewhere... I don't really get the hate, at the moment.

I've answered this. I don't get a vibe that she's looking for the truth, or that she's trying to learn my train of thought, or anything like that. She invokes Zorg's activity without asking Patrick about its implications; she goes on about my double-standards between MoS and that other guy Lemming was attacking three weeks ago; she even asks MoS his opinion, which feels like a last resort to see if he'll be modest and back her up. It's not curiosity. She's already decided I'm wrong, yet her stream of justifications for this have been consistently flawed.

Do you think JDodge is scum, Ether?

...maybe.

I'll

vote: ZONEACE

to better manipulate Tornado.

I don't understand this? I also don't understand what point you're trying to make with that vote count.

I have no idea what's going on here. I would at first think it's contradictory, since Sir Tornado was going to vig Setael or MOS because he was confident ZONEACE was a lynch possibility and not them, and that was pretty much the last thing Ether wanted, but this 'manipulation vote' happened before he said that.

Tornado had said he'd kill one of {Elmo, JDodge, MoS, Setael}. My nonmason candidates for scum are {Elmo, JDodge, ZONEACE}. A ZONElynch would have maximized the chances of a decent vig. (Since then, Tornado's decided to be contrary. Meh.)

[Bookitty]

Okay. I want everyone, at this point, to note that I said I would STOP focussing on MoS. I asked Ether to give me a FREAKING LIST OF QUESTIONS SHE WANTED ANSWERED.

Instead, MoS is now asking me to justify everyone else's behaviour, and Ether is calling me names in big red letters, just to ensure that the subject doesn't get changed. So, Korejora, WHOSE FAULT IS IT NOW?

I'm not the only one who can ask other people questions. It's not my job to defend Setael when I don't know if she's scum. It's not my job to make Sir Tornado vig the person you want him to. I can't read Ether's mind and magically figure out what the hell she wants to know, and I can't MAKE ANYONE post more.

Yes, now I'm angry, because I can see in a couple of days either being told: "Oh, you refused to respond to blah blah blah" or "You just wouldn't let it go" and it's a catch-22, innit?

[Korejora]

So, Korejora, WHOSE FAULT IS IT NOW?

Um, yours?

You

poked the angry hornet's nest with your repetition and insistence. While further discussion of that subject is not really what I want, I can understand people getting a little indignant at you not answering the questions that arose during the discussion. As I see it, you had ample time to address the questions

before

I requested the subject be dropped, and even longer before you actually agreed to do so, so I don't think you really have any right to step behind that request and its motherly wing now.

Still, I would like it if the others could drop it, or at least wrap it up quickly. It

would

be nice if Ether would make a new outline of her questions, since if you've been dodging them as long as she says then they're likely now buried in the discussion and not very convenient to find and answer.

I don't think MOS was asking you to justify others' actions so much as justify not going after others for unjustified actions (does that make any sense? I can never tell at 5 am). Concerning Setael, I didn't ask you to defend her. I asked you to explain why she was scummy, since you gave the green light on her being killed. Didn't you? Maybe I just need to get some sleep.

One more thing... where did Niv run off to? I thought someone wanted him to make a special list. It couldn't hurt to hear from Sir Tornado, either.

[Sir Tornado]

I'd still like to hear from Sir T why I'm "high on his suspect list". He seems unwilling to anwer that. Bookitty, please don't answer for him.

I have already answered this. Check out our argument on 24th/25th/26th January.

He admitted he has no reason for thinking I'm scum. He was questioned about it and said the only reason he has for wanting to vig me is that there must be 3 scum.

That's a lie. I think I have already explained how I feel about the application of method of elimination to finding out scum (complete with a Sherlock Holmes quote)

The only reason Sir T has to want to vig me is that I suspect him.

More lies.

While you are accusing me of suspecting you of being scum without a valid reason, why exactly am I supposed to be a SK? Because I defended BM? Remember, that was the centerpiece to your accusation for me being scum. You are basing me being SK based on your assumption to me being scum prior to my claim. You can't just carry it forward like that. You doing so is a basis of suspicion.

Ether, leave BooKitty alone; BooKitty, do similar favour to Ether. Simenon is most probably our neutrally aligned/scum mason. I was waiting to see exactly which mason would raise the possibility of a neutrally aligned mason first today, and it turned out to be Simenon.

It feels like people are making a conscious effort to avoid addressing the SirT issue directly, because I seem to be one of a very small group of people that actually noticed his complete lack of analysis today.

MoS: You are saying I lack analysis today. Would you show me exactly where I have "analyzed" anything in this entire game? I don't usually do that sort of thing.

I have been playing exactly like I am now -- albeit less aggressively -- for the past 3-4 days. But, MoS marked me as town based on that. The only different thing I have done today is attack MoS; and he's marked me down as possible scum

because

I attacked him today. This reeks of OMGUS. MoS should know better.

He seems to be depending on you to make his cases for him.

For the last time,

I was voting for you before BooKitty made a case against you!

My vote on you was the first thing I did today; and I haven't moved it since. That BooKitty happened to come across and make a vote on you didn't really influence anything.

JDodge, Elmo, ZONEACE, Korejora, who do you think I should vig?

[Sir Tornado]

Just making a list here:

Vigging recomendations:

Simenon: JDodge
Setael: JDodge/ZONEACE
MoS: JDodge/ZONEACE
Ether: Elmo/JDodge
BooKitty: Setael/MoS
Korejora: ?
JDodge: ?
Elmo: ?
Niv: ?
ZONEACE: ?

Is this list correct? Or have I missed anyone's views?

[Sir Tornado]

The town should be deciding who Sir T vigs. Not Sir T.

I think that's you right now, if you avoid being lynched.

[ZONEACE]

I would say Kore, Seatel or Bookitty.

[Sir Tornado]

ZONEACE, would you enlighten us behind the logic of vigging a claimed mason?

Simenon: JDodge
Setael: JDodge/ZONEACE
MoS: JDodge/ZONEACE
Ether: Elmo/JDodge/ZONEACE
BooKitty: Setael/MoS
ZONEACE: Korejora/Setael/Bookitty
Korejora: ?
JDodge: ?
Elmo: ?
Niv: ?

[Setael]

Is that list saying I want a JDodge or Zoneace vig? I certainly never said that.

I would pick Elmo.

[ZONEACE]

they're scum.


But if we're going to keep the masons alive just because they're masons (despite the fact that one of them is scum and its the one i mentioned) then fine remove the mason from my list.

(but just for the record, i told you so about bookitty)

[Sir Tornado]

But if we're going to keep the masons alive just because they're masons (despite the fact that one of them is scum and its the one i mentioned) then fine remove the mason from my list.

How do you know that one of them is

scum

?

Is that list saying I want a JDodge or Zoneace vig? I certainly never said that.

I would pick Elmo.

Corrected.

Vigging recomendations.

Simenon: JDodge
Setael: Elmo
MoS: JDodge/ZONEACE
Ether: Elmo/JDodge/ZONEACE
BooKitty: Setael/MoS/(anyone else?)
ZONEACE: Korejora/Setael/

Bookitty

Korejora: ?
JDodge: ?
Elmo: ?
Niv: ?

I would also like you to list vigs you are dead opposed to (apart from yourself of course)

So far, I have:

Ether: MoS/Setael
Setael: MoS
MoS: Setael (?)
Korejora: MoS/Setael (?)
Bookitty: ?
Simenon: ?
JDodge: ?
Niv: ?
Elmo: ?
ZONEACE: ?

[Sir Tornado]

Bah, it looks as if I and Bookitty are in minority here. I'll keep my word about what I said when I claimed though.

[Setael]

I am dead opposed to the vigging of any mason. Unless someone can come up with a decent theory of why the untrustworthy one would need to be killed in order for town to win (which I haven't heard yet) I think we should make the scum spend their NKs on them rather than doing it for them.

[Korejora]

I'm not dead opposed to or in favour of any particular vig.

ZONEACE, please don't ignore Elmo. Lurkers need love, too. Especially in deadline.

[Sir Tornado]

I am not going to vig masons. That would be just stupid.

[JDodge]

I want Sir T to vig Sir T.

I think Sir T is a SK.

[Simenon]

I want Sir T to vig Sir T.

I think Sir T is a SK.

If he is an SK, it still is not the proper play to have him vig himself, silly.

[JDodge]

I want Sir T to vig Sir T.

I think Sir T is a SK.

If he is an SK, it still is not the proper play to have him vig himself, silly.

i STRONGLY disagree

you're probably one of those people who doesn't think modern art is really art at all!