Weather Mafia -- Divine Intervention? Over

[armlx]

Fair enough, that's about what I assumed. Just wanted to see if I had missed some small tell.

I still don't like how farside was uber questioning to the point of voting you and not even FOSing niv.

[Blackberry]

UPDATED: PAGES (1-10)

hasdgfas

-- Unsure/Scummy?
* Accuse Farside22 for Dead Doctor Post (Post 29)
* Encouraged the Blackberry-Kill-Niv plan (Post 74)
* I like this post (Post 121)
* Unsure, this post leans toward Town (Post 173)
* Ignores question and attacks Xtoxm (Post 226)
* Not helpful (Post 239)

Porochaz/skitzer

-- Unsure?
* Attempts to Use Humor (Post 60)
* I do not like this post (Post 223)

farside22

-- Unsure/Townish?
* Dead Doctor Post (Post 25)
* Defensive of Niv (Post 83)
* I Like These Posts, Makes me think she is Town (Post 128, Post 134)

armlx

-- Unsure?
* Stupid First Post (Post 31)
* Attempts to Use Humor, Which is Scumtell (Post 48)
* Attempts to remain neutral on Blackberry-Kill-Niv (Post 95)
* I Do Not Like this Post (Post 124)
* Aware of Gorrad's scumminess (Post 168) -- Hmm, what to think of this?
* Went after OBVIOUS-TOWN Xtoxm (Post 192)
* Leaned toward believing me after seeing I hadn't played for awhile (Post 241)

Iammars

-- Claim is Confirmed
* IAMMARS HINTED AT LOOKING FOR CURIOUS GEORGE (Post 35)
* Quick to vote Niv (Post 91)
* Post doesn't smell like scum to me (Post 233)

Gorrad

-- Scummy?

* Stupid First Vote (Post 30)

* Voted Iammars for pointing out Breadcrumbing (Post 40)
* Hammared Niv (Post 99)
* Just wanted to lynch me (Post 158)

Twomz

-- Townish?
* Quickly voted for NIV (Post 80)
* Appeared to be confident in my accusation without question (Post 93)
* Ok, SURPRISINGLY, This Makes me think he is Town (Post 116)
* Once again, this post makes me think Town (Post 147)
* Mentions Jester (Post 152)
* Brought up possibility of Cop being insane/paranoid (Post 178)
* Mentioned Jester but then wants to Lynch me again (Post 188)
* Asking for the Town's Opinion (Post 199) -- What the hell? Why would town do this?

Bookitty/konehead

-- Curious George?
* Would Like BooKitty to attempt to explain Post 34

* Hints at being Curious George (Post 63)

* Extremely quiet (Post 179)

Cyberbob

-- Scummy!
* I Do Not Like This Post (Post 52)
* When I did my NIV thing Day One, Cyberbob showed hesitation and knowledge that I was trying to lynch an innocent (Post 71)
* THEN, went along with Blackberry-Kill-Niv plan (Post 73)
* Brought up WIFOM
* Believed my Claim (Post 234) -- This confuses me.

ChaosOmega

-- Unsure/Scummy?
* Quick to vote Niv (Post 92)
* INTERESTING, Decided to go After Gorrad instead of me (Post 129) -- I do not know what to make of this!?
* Useless (Post 219)
* Wanted to go after Gorrad (Post 242)

Glork

-- Sexy!
* Sexy (All Posts)

I'll do more later...

I think I know one other person's exact role name...

[Blackberry]

I'm going back and fourth on Twomz. Townish at some points, Scummy at others. And I don't believe the role name.

Armlx is looking more town to me too for some reason.

I'm fairly confident I know someone's exact role name, although I could be completley mistaken. This is someone who is not Iammars or George.

[armlx]

So every scum grouping I'm going over involves ChaosOmega and Cyberbob. I'm also leaning town on Gorrad. He just seems to have blindered on BB. Also, Omega seems to be busing him too hard for a scum buddy.

As for the other 2 scum, on top of the Bookit/farside pairing, here are the other main one I can see.

Cows and Porochaz

Simply due to process of elimination (Twomz, BB, and Mars have claims, farside and Bookitty are probably both the same alignment as their exchange was either really confused aka town or really fake aka scum, and Gorrad I explained).

[Bookitty]

Armlx: I could equally well make an argument that when I attacked Farside, you were quick to jump to her defence. Now you think you might have been too obvious in that defence, so you're making a desperate attempt (with very little evidence, as will be obvious to anyone who rereads your arguments) to distance from her while linking her to me.

And now you've covered the third possibility for Farside and myself. Which sort of confirms my view that you're distancing from her:

If I'm lynched and flip town, then "Farside and Bookitty are probably the same alignment" (post 678).

If Farside is lynched and flips scum, "Bookitty: Her posts seem off to me (something stylisticaly feels scummy here) and it seems a lot like farside was busing a scum buddy with her vote here." (Post 573)

If Farside is lynched and flips town, then you reserve the right to accuse me: "Farside backed her not taking "official" action on Twomz with fair reasoning and took a valid read on you, and you try to spin those around on her as doing exactly what she was accusing you of doing." (Post 469)

So your opinions have evolved from this:

Farside backed her not taking "official" action on Twomz with fair reasoning and took a valid read on you, and you try to spin those around on her as doing exactly what she was accusing you of doing.

to this:

Farside: The kicker here for me is attacking BB day 1. It implies she knows too much. Then there was the Bookitty thing D2, where she claims she wasn't waiting for info to dig, then says there's not enough to vote Bookitty then does. Doesn't vote xtoxm, but never actively defends him. These all seem too scripted from me.

And again I ask you: What's changed? Why the defence of Farsidetown yesterday, and now the attempt to link Farsidescum to me today? Because nothing you've said so far explains your attacks on me yesterday if Farside is obvscum today.

[Iammars]

Iammars

-- Claim is Confirmed
* IAMMARS HINTED AT LOOKING FOR CURIOUS GEORGE (Post 35)

Nice catch. I'll try to have something more tonight.

[Gorrad]

Hey BB, you realise that absolutely no one will vote for Mars on your word that there's a cult alone? You've pretty much shot your chances of trust to the ninth ring.

[armlx]

If Farside is lynched and flips town, then you reserve the right to accuse me: "Farside backed her not taking "official" action on Twomz with fair reasoning and took a valid read on you, and you try to spin those around on her as doing exactly what she was accusing you of doing." (Post 469)

I hardly call saying you were scummy yesterday then upon reread creating a whole new theory with logical backing "reserving the right to call you scum".

As for why the defense, another lynch gave us more information. ChaosOmega became a suspect, I saw his early overly strong push on farside, noticed her distinct separation from the BB plan, and that while she didn't vote xtoxm she didn't defend him at all either, and remembered your argument. In light of this new view, it looks quite awkward.

Farside basically has been distancing herself from the obvious mislynches so as not to garner attention.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty/konehead -- Curious George?
* Would Like BooKitty to attempt to explain Post 34
* Hints at being Curious George (Post 63)
* Extremely quiet (Post 179)

I'm not Curious George. I WISH I were Curious George, but I'm not. I would admit it if I were; I don't see a pro-town reason not to admit it at this point. Admittedly, I don't know if either of those roles are pro-town, but *I* always liked the characters so I have a hard time thinking Iammars would out his role name as scum. (My guess is that Iammars is a masoniser, but only if he finds Curious George?)

Post 34... ummm...I have no clue? He spilled cocoa on himself and decided to share with the class? It has nothing to do with the game insofar as I can figure out. I will state categorically it doesn't have anything to do with the role.

Post 63. I don't know why he's capitalising everything, and I don't know why he's voting Iammars either.

Konehead lurked enough that he was replaced out of the game. Hence the extremely quiet, I would guess.

Additionally, in general about the Curious George thing: if Konehead/myself had been Curious George, and had "found" Iammars at the point you mentioned, why wouldn't he have done whatever it is Curious George is supposed to do at that point? (I have no clue what these roles are supposed to do; the masoniser is my current guess because of another game I'm currently in.) If Curious George knows who The Man in the Yellow Hat is (as he must, at this point) then why wouldn't scum-CuriousGeorge nightkill Iammars, or town-CuriousGeorge own up?

The entire situation makes no sense to me.

[Bookitty]

I hardly call saying you were scummy yesterday then upon reread creating a whole new theory with logical backing "reserving the right to call you scum".

As for why the defense, another lynch gave us more information. ChaosOmega became a suspect, I saw his early overly strong push on farside, noticed her distinct separation from the BB plan, and that while she didn't vote xtoxm she didn't defend him at all either, and remembered your argument. In light of this new view, it looks quite awkward.

Farside basically has been distancing herself from the obvious mislynches so as not to garner attention.

Farside attacked me over Twomz's gambit. You apparently thought her argument was a good one at the time, because you supported it. So on a reread, you now think her argument was weak. Yet when I said it was weak and unconvincing and seemed trumped up, and that her reasoning was shoddy, that was a reason for finding ME scummy then. Not Farside. Just me.

All of the logical reasoning you've derived from your reread is based on Farside's behaviour, not mine. Your reread now shows that Farside is scummy, something with which I agreed yesterday and continue to agree with today. But you simply CANNOT have it both ways. Either Farside's justification for her vote on me was trumped up yesterday, and I was RIGHT in attacking it and showing the inconsistencies, or Farside's vote on me was justified at the time and my attacks on her reasoning were trumped up. Hindsight and a reread don't justify your position shift here, in my view.

If Farside flips town, does that clear me of being scum in your view, Armlx? Why or why not?

[armlx]

Bookitty: Her argument was weak and unconvincing, but yours was just as much so and used obvious misinterpretations.

If farside is town, I'm more inclined now to think you are both misinformed town attacking each other in really dumb ways, as the Cows-Porochaz scum pairing becomes the more likely one.

[ChaosOmega]

Just as clarification armlx, I am in fact male. Thanks. Anyway,

So every scum grouping I'm going over involves ChaosOmega and Cyberbob. I'm also leaning town on Gorrad. He just seems to have blindered on BB. Also, Omega seems to be busing him too hard for a scum buddy.

It's strange to me that you have a definite read of scum on two players, yet are voting someone who you are unsure about.

Oh, and speaking of farside22,

Well twomz was my main suspect. I really thought after xtomx claimed some people would think about who else was scum and stated as much. The only other person I was really suspicious of was Gorrad. (1)However armix makes an interesting point about when CO places his vote.
(2)I disagreed with what armix stated he found on me saying I didn't try and lead people away which I did say something especially after the claim.
(3)@Armix: Some of your thoughts on the vote seemed to me that you think the scum wasn't even part of the vote. I'm trying to understand why that thought?
(4)I'm not sure about cycerbob vote right this moment. I have to reread to see what you guys are talking about.

I have a few problems with this post.

(1) Day 2, your analysis of me is leaning town. armlx posts my voting pattern, and you agree that it's an "interesting point". I think that's kind of wishy-washy. You're agreeing with him without placing any suspicion on me, trying to not make enemies of either of us.

(2) Damn, I was expecting you to agree with it. That would make this game a lot easier.

It's not so much the disagreeing I have the problem with, but the fact that you don't really defend yourself. You just go "I don't like what he said about me". If you don't agree with it, explain why.

(3) I'm curious as to what you're referring to exactly here. I looked back but couldn't find what you were referencing.

(4) Distancing from Cyberbob. You also misspelled his name, which I think is just subtle distancing on your part...

...well, I thought that, anyway. I went back through the post and you misspelled everyone's name wrong. Oh well. The fact that you tried to show you were against Cyberbob without really stating why stands.

The whole post is just really wimpy. Like you're not trying to upset anybody.

[armlx]

CO: On the gender thing, I assume you are referring to this.

ChaosOmega became a suspect, I saw his early overly strong push on farside, noticed her distinct separation from the BB plan, and that while she didn't vote xtoxm she didn't defend him at all either, and remembered your argument. In light of this new view, it looks quite awkward.

Everything after where I say farside is referring to her. For clarity, this should read.

ChaosOmega became a suspect, I saw his early overly strong push on farside. I then noticed farside's distinct separation from the BB plan, and that while she didn't vote xtoxm she didn't defend him at all either, and remembered your argument. In light of this new view, it looks quite awkward.

As for my vote: Votes bring info. For lynching purposes my vote would be on you or Cyber.

Also, didn't respond to Farside's point 3 I just realized:

I think the scum, knowing BB was full of shit, tried to avoid supporting him.

On D2, the scummy thing I saw was simply ignoring the xtoxm situation. That way they can go back and say they didnt vote for him, yet they still contributed by not defending an easy lynch especially with the lynch -1 advisory.

[Bookitty]

Bookitty: Her argument was weak and unconvincing, but yours was just as much so and used obvious misinterpretations.

If farside is town, I'm more inclined now to think you are both misinformed town attacking each other in really dumb ways, as the Cows-Porochaz scum pairing becomes the more likely one.

The fact that Farside used repeated double negatives was in fact something I commented. The heart of my case is that she voted me for not objecting to Twomz's gambit while she remained silent said her "gut" told her to say nothing; she said she would have FOSed anyone who responded to it; she said that the gambit had its pros and cons but had difficulty in listing any pros to it; she didn't so much as FOS Twomz for it at the time.

If the downside to Twomz's plan is that it would lure townies to give information to scum, then why would you FOS someone for that without FOSing Twomz for coming up with the plan? If you knew it was a gambit, why would you vote someone because they didn't object, when you said nothing at all?

You ignore this part of the case and focus on the double negatives, which is the LEAST of my case and happened at the very end, long after you had already defended her by accusing me of twisting her words. In fact, she directly misrepresented what I'd said, and others called her out on it at the time.

So why are you continuing to misrepresent the situation after this reread that suddenly revealed to you that Farside was scum after all?

[armlx]

The fact you even attacked the phrasing to begin with was awkward. It completely detracted from your main point, which is what made your argument weak.

Not saying anything != not objecting. Directly saying you don't object is only a smidgeon different from agreeing. Not saying anything is merely a crime of omission, albeit still a crime. I was willing to let farside fly on that yesterday, but now the pieces have come together.

The main issue with all your arguments today is they are based on the idea that we had the exact same information and issues yesterday as we do today.

[farside22]

Fair enough, that's about what I assumed. Just wanted to see if I had missed some small tell.

I still don't like how farside was uber questioning to the point of voting you and not even FOSing niv.

Why would I FOS niv when I wasn't sure what BB was doing? I asked questions because many people jumped to what he said and voted and that was more suspicious then Niv's I don't know what you are talking about comment.
I'm still trying to do a read through and look at things for cyberbob and CO. I didn't have any problems with CO from what I remember, but I need to take a look again.

[armlx]

Farside: Are you kidding? Given the scenario, I fail to see how any reasonable person wouldn't at the least FOS niv. Failing to do so indicates you were working off too much info for D1.

[farside22]

I'm tired of armix saying I never defended xtoxm and his town comment here were somethings I said in the begining when he was being talked about as scum

I think BB is more likely scum then xtoxm because for some reason BB thinks that proclaiming vanilla townie is good enough. He lied and lead a lynch against Niv. Most people followed his thought and a few people had a point. I still think Gorrad doing the hammer vote against Niv is highly questionable. The last time I saw someone hammer a player that quickly they were scum.

I will go with B on Xtoxm (most likely townie) I say this because it's hard for me to see someone fight hard for another player like he has. I've gone over and over with BB case. One valid point is that there could be one vanilla townie. It's not an easy thing to claim that in a game were there could be more then one vanilla. I think to myself this is a theme game and is vanilla townie usually in a theme game? Well that is still a big chance to take on BB's claim. So I go back to Gorrad who did a hammer based on his belief that BB was telling the truth. I doubt this. It has been my experience that most people would see what Niv had to say. Once he made it to L-2 and ChaosOmega said he wanted to hear what Niv said most people should have agree with this. Someone going for the quick lynch could have done so to make BB look bad.

On my own thoughts about Co I honestly didn't have issues I just thought Armix comment about his voting was interesting, but he was one of the few people who wanted to here what Niv said before he was lynched, which was ignored by 2 people.

@Gorrad:

Why did you ignore CO comment about waiting for Niv to say anything in his defense?

Farside: Are you kidding? Given the scenario, I fail to see how any reasonable person wouldn't at the least FOS niv. Failing to do so indicates you were working off too much info for D1.

Not in my opinion. Sorry, but I don't just blindly follow someone because they say so without questioning them more. I even stated that Niv had no idea what BB was talking about. It makes no sense to me to FOS someone based on a statement as bold as BB. He even was bold enough to say that Niv targeted MFB and then applogize later.

I also agree with BooKitty when she talks about your turn around from saying I'm pro town to saying we looked like a scum pair after one day. You never express any of that during the day one discussions and actually took my side during the arguement.

@BooKitty:

Sorry but I'm not sure why double negative equal scum. I have terrible grammar. I thought when you stated your comment in regards to Twomz it was a bit more like you couldn't think of why it was a bad idea and I thought you were smart enough to know why without being told.

[Blackberry]

Hey BB, you realise that absolutely no one will vote for Mars on your word that there's a cult alone? You've pretty much shot your chances of trust to the ninth ring.

Hey Gorrad -- you realize that was a joke, or are you too idiotic ?

I was serious for once and made a serious analysis of the players and you choose to ignore it and not even comment on it, what the hell is up with that? Double-idiot scum-bucket, please .

[farside22]

Someone asked me what I meant about Armix stating that people not voting for xtomx must be scum came from this comment.

Other thing: All 3 of these people didn't vote xtoxm, yet none of them actively tried to stop his lynch. This looks an awful lot like a set up to me for the old "You all lynched him, I never tried to rush him".

I looked at the vote count and last I saw CO did vote for xtoxm so the statement is false on that end. I still have reading to do, but this caught my attention first.

[armlx]

I'm not sure why I said that. One of the main things I went after Omega for in the first place was how he positioned him self on the 2 lynch wagons. Awkward.

[Gorrad]

Hey BB, you realise that absolutely no one will vote for Mars on your word that there's a cult alone? You've pretty much shot your chances of trust to the ninth ring.

Hey Gorrad -- you realize that was a joke, or are you too idiotic ?

I was serious for once and made a serious analysis of the players and you choose to ignore it and not even comment on it, what the hell is up with that? Double-idiot scum-bucket, please .

Ok, so you were telling the truth about, I dunno NOTHING this ENTIRE game except MAYBE your role, and I'm supposed to take one list as serious? You call me an idiot for thinking one thing is serious, and again for thinking another isn't. BB, I'll be nice here. Please be quiet.

[Blackberry]

[Iammars]

Hey BB, you realise that absolutely no one will vote for Mars on your word that there's a cult alone? You've pretty much shot your chances of trust to the ninth ring.

Where did he imply cult?

Farside basically has been distancing herself from the obvious mislynches so as not to garner attention.

A. This is bad, why?
B. If they're obvious mislynches, why did we lynch that person in the first place?

I'm not Curious George. I WISH I were Curious George, but I'm not.

I wish you were curious george too.

Farside: Are you kidding? Given the scenario, I fail to see how any reasonable person wouldn't at the least FOS niv. Failing to do so indicates you were working off too much info for D1.

Good call.

[Blackberry]

If no one is Curious George I'm inclined to believe Iammars is lying. But he did breadcrumb for George at the very beginning. Discuss.

Gorrad. Love you. Die.