Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!


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Post Post #325 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:16 pm

Post by opie »

I just wanted to notify that I may be V/LA until 18 Feb.
Noted, thanks.




=======================================
Votecount #13

opie - 4 (Adel, Oman, Guardian, ChaosOmega)

Guardian - 2 (opie, Incognito)
Oman - 1 (Jitsu)
Xyltixlm - 1 (Matt_S)
TrustGossip - 1 (pickemgenius)
Jitsu - 1 (Erg0)
Matt_S - 1 (Xylthixlm)

Not voting - 1 (TrustGossip)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
=======================================
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Post Post #326 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:23 pm

Post by Guardian »

Jitsu, because the game was just beginning, and picking something to find suspicious is often a really great starting point. Finding his joking suspicious was arbitrary, as I said.
Do not lynch me.
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Post Post #327 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:30 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

Jitsu wrote:@Xylthixlm: What specifically about Opie's post 184 gave you a townie reaction on him?
Post 184

He addressed all the suspicion I had on him without cracking or getting frustrated from the pressure. He didn't get so caught up in his own defense that he stopped looking at other people.
Jitsu wrote:@Adel: Can you explain why you think Matt_S's probability of being scum is dependant on Opie being scum?
It has something to do with "distancing", which if I understand correctly is a mechanism where scum leave deliberate breadcrumbs about who their scumbuddies are. I don't understand why scum on this site are so kind, but I'll take any gifts they want to give us :D
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Post Post #328 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:03 pm

Post by pickemgenius »

Xylthixlm wrote:
Jitsu wrote:@Xylthixlm: What specifically about Opie's post 184 gave you a townie reaction on him?
Post 184

He addressed all the suspicion I had on him without cracking or getting frustrated from the pressure.
He didn't get so caught up in his own defense that he stopped looking at other people.
@Bold: His defense was an attempt to put pressure on someone else.
And you can look at that as either a bad thing or a good thing.
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Post Post #329 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:56 pm

Post by vollkan »

TG wrote: Mod: I would really like a replacement
Okay. I'm on it.
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Post Post #330 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:11 pm

Post by Adel »

Xylthixlm wrote:
Jitsu wrote:@Adel: Can you explain why you think Matt_S's probability of being scum is dependant on Opie being scum?
It has something to do with "distancing", which if I understand correctly is a mechanism where scum leave deliberate breadcrumbs about who their scumbuddies are. I don't understand why scum on this site are so kind, but I'll take any gifts they want to give us :D
er, distancing is where two scumbuddies call each other scummy so that when one is discovered to be scum the other looks more townie. It is similar to bussing, just without the lynch.
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Post Post #331 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:58 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

Adel wrote:er, distancing is where two scumbuddies call each other scummy so that when one is discovered to be scum the other looks more townie. It is similar to bussing, just without the lynch.
From my experience on this site so far, when a scum dies, anyone who he or she called scummy but didn't try to lynch is the
first
to attract attention as a possible scumbuddy.
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Post Post #332 (ISO) » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:10 pm

Post by Adel »

and that is because the current meta is all over identifying distancing. In fact, it is only when newer players like Matt_S do it that alarms bells really ring for me.
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Post Post #333 (ISO) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:52 am

Post by vollkan »


Many thanks to Patrick, who henceforth replaces TrustGossip.
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Post Post #334 (ISO) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:57 am

Post by Patrick »

Hey guys. I'll reread and post tonight or most likely tomorrow.
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Post Post #335 (ISO) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:12 am

Post by Incognito »

Welcome aboard, Patrick.
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patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
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Post Post #336 (ISO) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:11 am

Post by pickemgenius »

yo patrick
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Post Post #337 (ISO) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:51 pm

Post by Adel »

Patrick: what did I do wrong? Why haven't I been able to get opie lynched yet?
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Post Post #338 (ISO) » Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:33 pm

Post by Matt_S »

Adel wrote:and that is because the current meta is all over identifying distancing. In fact, it is only when newer players like Matt_S do it that alarms bells really ring for me.
Just because I'm a newb doesn't mean I suck. :(
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Post Post #339 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:27 am

Post by Adel »

I never said that you sucked. Are you saying that you are clever enough to
not
distance yourself from your partner?
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Post Post #340 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:47 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

Guardian wrote:Jitsu, because the game was just beginning, and picking something to find suspicious is often a really great starting point. Finding his joking suspicious was
arbitrary
, as I said.
What do you mean by "arbitrary"? :lol:
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Post Post #341 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:41 am

Post by Matt_S »

Adel wrote:I never said that you sucked. Are you saying that you are clever enough to
not
distance yourself from your partner?
I see what you did there. You're asking a yes or no question where both answers suggest I have a partner. So, to partially answer your question, I'm at least clever enough to notice that.

Just because I'm new doesn't mean that I do conspicuous things like distancing. Of course, I'm not familiar with all the meta stuff, but I've read enough to know that smart scum shouldn't openly treat their partners different from everyone else.
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(3) write down the answer.
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Post Post #342 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:48 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

Matt_S is so clever that he noticed the trap and fell for it anyways.
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Post Post #343 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:50 am

Post by pickemgenius »

Xylthixlm wrote:Matt_S is so clever that he noticed the trap and fell for it anyways.
qft
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Post Post #344 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:58 am

Post by Incognito »

pickemgenius wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Matt_S is so clever that he noticed the trap and fell for it anyways.
qft
Why am I not seeing this?
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Post Post #345 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:59 am

Post by Patrick »

I've read the game, and will give my thoughts on every player. These people are listed in no particular order.

Matt_S
: I can't remember a single post by him that I've liked. I think he's trying to appear a bit more active than he really is, and when he's voting/Fosing people I don't agree with most of it. Don't like his early Guardian vote after a couple of others had expressed suspicion in that direction; I don't think Guardian's asking people to comment on Erg0 is any more likely to come from scum than town, although I'm slightly more lenient on Matt for this because he's a newbie, and newbies often seem to find slightly unusual stuff scummy. Post 190 is a post that several people have critisised and which I didn't like either; I won't bother repeating what others have said on this. I don't like his attacks and eventual vote for Xylthixlm because his reasons seem contrived. Why exactly do Xyl's comments about Adel's algorithm seem scummy to you as opposed to maybe a little annoying or unecessary? This seems like thin reasoning for a vote. I'd also like you to explain why Incognito being aggressive is suspicious to you. All in all, Matt seems like a decent scum candidate.

Xylthixlm
: He can be next since he's been arguing with Matt who I've just commented on. His early use of the word arbitary for daykills lead to a debate that was pointless IMO, but eh, didn't seem scummy. His stance on Guardian early was pretty much same as mine, and most of his other stances in his every player post were reasonable. I quite like his push on Matt, even his push on my predecessor who seemed to be making some weird posts. I can actually see the point Erg0 made in his player by player post about Xyl seeming to move off the opie wagon rather easily, and it could be a be a connection between the two, but Xyl doesn't bother me much at this stage compared to several other people. Around neutral.

ChaosOmega
: Has hardly done anything, not unlike the only time I've played with him (where he was town), but I still don't particularly like it. As far as I can tell, he's saying he hasn't explained his non opie suspicions yet because he wants to observe those two some more, which could be legitimate, but we're half way through our day and there's plenty to work with, so I'd like more from him relatively soon. I don't want him coasting to day 2 using that as an excuse.

Incognito
: I'm reasonably happy with his play so far. Attacked people for smallish reasons early on but felt like a townie eager for discussion rather than a scumbag. Liked his comments on Jitsu which I'll go into more in my section about Jitsu. I'm hot and cold on his case against Guardian, which I'll again defer to the the appropriate section, but regarding Incognito's alignment, I think he's probably protown. He seems to be looking for scum and not afraid of conflict.

Jitsu
: The first post I noted was Post 68 where he started going after Oman. I have to admit at first I thought I'd found a blatant contradiction: He critisised Oman for asking Erg0 whether he has vig abilities, whilst in the same post asking Oman the same thing. But since Oman had already aimed a (fake) daykill at Jitsu, I suppose it wasn't such a bad question afterall. Nevertheless I don't like his attack on Oman; his back and forth with Erg0 looked like pretty obvious banter to me, and I don't see why a "more serious dayvig claim" from Oman is more likely to be come from scum than town. What benefit does a scum get from posting in thread, "Daykill: X"? Maybe it's not
too
bad for an early game kind of thing, but I find it troubling that on page 14 his vote is still on Oman based on the accusation that Oman was seriously fishing from Erg0.

I didn't like Post 129 by Jitsu for similar reasons to those given by Incognito and Erg0. Feels like he backed down when Opie was starting to pick up flak for pushing the Guardian case. I've read through his explanations several times and got a little lost in it I have to admit, but on first impression it hasn't eased my suspicion of him. I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if the rest of his play struck me as protown, but it hasn't really, so he's one of the scummiest players here.

Guardian
: Tricky tricky. Alright, so to start with I don't feel like the original case against him was much good. His asking for comments on the Erg0 wagon was unusual but didn't stick out to me as deserving votes, yet he picked up quite a bit of suspicion for it. Looking at Incognito's later case against him: I don't think Guardian's Post 74 was all that bad myself, he seemed to at least ask some valid questions of his attackers. I think that point (3) by Incognito is somewhat valid, though odd as it might sound I have noticed Guardian doing this in previous games (kind of supporting a suspicion of someone whilst asking for someone else to make the case -- but if I'm intepretting the accusation wrongly then feel free to point it out). I'm not keen on some of Guardian's responses though, particularly Post 225, I don't see how Incognito was contradicting himself here and his next few posts have an OMGUSy edge that I don't care for. The later stuff has made me more suspicious of him but I think there are better suspects out there still.

Erg0
: So far Erg0 has seemed pretty reasonable to me. In fact, so many of his opinions are similar to mine that it's spooky. I could see him being tricky enough as scum to fool me, but nothing he's done has pinged my scumdar, so I'm leaning town.

Adel
: One of the few players here that I have any meta on, and that is that she always looks like scum to me. Looking past that, I'm happy enough with her early play and case against opie, though I don't think the certainty is warranted, and think she's being too lenient on Jitsu, which is a possible connection. (I feel like Jitsu has just as much jumped on a convenient target as opie has). Other than that, the main thing I'm interested in is why she can't see Matt being scum without opie being scum, because I disagree with it. Last time I played with Adel she was scum and seemed different to this, and made much less sense to me in that game, so Adel isn't worrying me too much at this stage.

Opie:
He started the case against Guardian, and I've already established that I wasn't impressed by it. I also don't think his extending it to the other Erg0 wagoners was justified (already said I know blah blah). Since then, his posts haven't seemed so bad to me though. If anything, the biggest thing turning me off this case is the fact that I feel Jitsu is more worthy of attention than he is, and yet has been mentioned relatively less, which may indicate the latter is scum benefitting from some double standard of sorts. Meanwhile Opie has been wagoned up to 4 votes, including a pretty crappy fourth one by ChaosOmega.

Oman
: Early play with the joke case/dayvig seemed fair enough to me to try and get reactions. Oman hasn't stuck out much to me so far, except like some others he seems to be too lenient on Jitsu. Nevertheless, Oman's not a top suspect for me.

pickemgenius
: Seems to be usual brief self in this game. Nothing he's done hit me as particularly town, but most of his stances have seemed ok as well, so pretty much neutral on him. I disagree with his comment that tone can't be read when playing internet mafia, but I suppose that's just a theory thing.

---------------------------------------------

So bah, this got kind of long. After looking at every player, I think I'm happy with a
Vote: Jitsu
.

Matt: What do you think of Jitsu?
Adel wrote:Patrick: what did I do wrong? Why haven't I been able to get opie lynched yet?
Still 3 votes shy. I don't feel like he's the best lynch today personally.
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Post Post #346 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:46 am

Post by Oman »

G'day Patrick!

I will take another look at Jitsu, I really haven't so far, but people keep making points.
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Post Post #347 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:59 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

Patrick, why do you prefer a Jitsu lynch to a Matt_S lynch? Your case on Matt_S seems stronger.
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Post Post #348 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:56 pm

Post by Patrick »

Xylthixlm wrote:Patrick, why do you prefer a Jitsu lynch to a Matt_S lynch? Your case on Matt_S seems stronger.
Matt is probably my second suspect, but I think the Jitsu case is stronger, and signficantly, seems to have been largely ignored. I feel like I haven't agreed with many of their suspects or votes/FoSes, but Jitsu also has the backtracking point going against him. I'm open to persuasion though.

I didn't particularly catch anything on my read that says they can't be scum together.
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Post Post #349 (ISO) » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:26 pm

Post by Incognito »

I, too, would support a Jitsu lynch as opposed to a Matt_S lynch. I feel like a lot of Matt_S's posts that have been interpreted as scummy could possibly be linked to newbie-tells as opposed to scum-tells.
Patrick wrote:(kind of supporting a suspicion of someone whilst asking for someone else to make the case -- but if I'm intepretting the accusation wrongly then feel free to point it out).
This is correct. He seemed to be casting some suspicion towards opie but he was unwilling to place a vote on him. The vote only came after the case was fostered by Adel and a few people expressed at least minimal support for the case. If you could point me in the direction of this meta that supports that he does this as town, that would be nice.

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