Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't even want a claim from hasdagas.

Hasdagas has NO pro-town reason to target Peers in any capacity. None.

Hasdagas can claim God, my vote stays on him. There is still no reason to target the Doctor. Not a single reason. If saying the truth, Peers was a dead man walking. Under no circumstance is he an appropriate town night target, the night following his claim.

Hasdagas is probably nervous that he might have been tracked doing the nightkill, he's trying to explain it away, he realizes he betrayed his knowledge that Peers had resisted the NK. Or he wants to use the "information" he had about Peer's temporary un-NK'ability to fake an investigative role. But it can only be a fake.

There is one remotely possible role, in fact, now that I think about it. A very, very specific one, that's not even in the mafiawiki, and that I've never seen in any game, and might not even exist. However, if that theoretical role was indeed Hasdagas', then Hasdagas would have had to do something very particular today, that he hasn't done, and he has said some things that go against him having that role. This is a <1% chance.

[Erg0]

This whole thing makes very little sense. I can't think of any information role that would give hasdfgas the knowledge that Peers was targeted for a kill and survived. A wathcer could see that he was targeted, but not the type of action that he was targeted for. A cop could see that he was innocent, but not whether he was targeted for a kill.

I don't think that a claim from hasdfgas would hurt at this point - if it's a good claim, it may prevent us from wasting a lynch. Either way, I think he's going to be dead by sun-up.

Unvote, Vote: hasdfgas

[Setael]

Hasdagas is probably nervous that he might have been tracked doing the nightkill, he's trying to explain it away, he realizes he betrayed his knowledge that Peers had resisted the NK. Or he wants to use the "information" he had about Peer's temporary un-NK'ability to fake an investigative role. But it can only be a fake.

Setael, do you really think Hasd would have believed in the possibility of a NK-immune doctor? Doesn't that seem REALLY improbable to you?

I agree with both of these quotes. The only way hasdf's actions/posts makes sense to me is if

A) He's scum
B) He's very inexperienced, not very bright town that I will be so annoyed ended up with a power role and botched it this badly.

Has anyone played with him before? Do we know if he's played enough mafia that he should know better?

And I agree with erg0, I'd like a claim and I'd like him to talk more so we can figure out if it's A or B.

[hasdgfas]

Since it's obvious that nothing else will help, I'm going to claim. TS doesn't think it'll help, but anything less that I do will not end TS's bloodlust towards me, and even this might not help at all, with the way TS has acted towards all her suspicions so far.

Here's my breadcrumb:

All right, back to the Quag situation, even though it creates an

electric

atmosphere.

I am the CPR doc. For those who don't know what it is, let me explain. After all other night actions are resolved, I get to go to my target. If they are alive, I kill them, if they're dead, I bring them back to life. Last night, it took me a long while to decide whether to target Peers or Quag, because I would have been targeting each for a different reason. I had to weigh the likelihood of Peers being the target of a NK, and therefore me wanting to save him, the doctor, against almost definitely NK'ing Quag, who had claimed vanilla townie and was the subject of much discussion during Day 1. I finally decided upon targeting Peers, because I figured that if Peers was lying, he would be a dead scum, and if he was telling the truth, he'd be a likely NK.

When Day 2 began and Peers was alive, I was happy that I had stopped a NK, and thus attempted to explain why without actually claiming. That failed miserably. I figured that either scum or a vig had tried to NK him, or he was NK-immune. There would be no other reason for him being alive. Then Shanba posted, showing that Peers was dead, and I knew that I was in trouble for what I had said about Peers so far in Day 2 and my stupid, stupid, completely idiotic play Day 1.

So, I'm not an information role, this is probably the

only

town role where I would have a difficult time choosing between Quag and Peers. If I was cop, no question I target Quag. If it's a tracker, I target Quag.

If you still want to lynch me after this, I wouldn't be surprised, because I've played terribly this entire game. But think on it from this perspective, and it does make sense.

[Setael]

I believe him. I take it the scum did not choose to NK peers and his death was caused by hasdf. I suppose you could blame a teeny bit of hasdf's error on the mod neglecting to correctly announce night kills, but imo he still should've kept quiet about it. How does it help the town for us to know someone targeted peers? It gives no info and unnecessarily outs hasdf.

So it's B.

No offense, hasdf, but there was no reason for you to out yourself the way you did at the beginning of today, and then more obviously recently.

[hasdgfas]

I agree with you Setael, but this was a new role and I wasn't really sure how to play it with the results I have when erg0 attacked him immediately. I probably should have waited, but once I said that I believed Peers more today I couldn't think of a way to get out of it easily.

[Erg0]

That makes sense to me.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage

On the plus side, the inherent WIFOM with a CPR doc makes it less than 100% certain that the scum will kill you tonight.

[Spambot]

Long game is long.

Or, possibly, we could look for something besides your false dilemma and lynch someone like zu_faul or jordan, both of which have also been scummy. This isn't a one or the other situation, TS, no matter whether you want it to be or not. There are lots of people still alive, and, even if I were scum, you still would want to look for the others.

Even if you were scum, huh? I don't like this post, off the bat.

[Spambot]

FoS: Toaster Strudel

for his incredibly opportunistic attempt to redirect suspicion to hasdgfas. hasdgfas isn't scum.

How do you know that? Toaster seems to be pretty aggressive here, and I like that.

[Spambot]

vollkan, why does your analysis of hasdgfas stop at the end of day 1?

I couldn't glean anything significant from any of his posts coming after where I stopped.

I don't have context here (how long has day 2 been going?), but that seems kind of lazy for somebody that is doing pbpa juggernauts.

[Spambot]

You lack a sense of humor if you think I'm seriously suggesting that only you or I should be lynched today.

I did accomplish the goal of getting the game moving, didn't I? No one has said anything worthy of notice for days. You weren't tempted to take advantage of the break, stick your neck out, and look for that "other scum?"

Did I say you were seriously suggesting it? No. But you did suggest it, and I responded to it.

Yes, I was tempted to look for the scum, and I attempted to do so. But it was a LONG day 1, and I didn't have as much time to look as I would've liked. I have looked closer at zu_faul lately though, and have found nothing useful from him at all. It's as though he's a parrot, chirping out what others have said and jumping on the easy bandwagons.

vote: zu_faul

Man, now you're just wagoning with pbpa guy? That's pretty weak sauce.

[Erg0]

vollkan, how do you feel about my somewhat different conclusions on zu_Faul from earlier in day 2?

[Spambot]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

Um, watcher? Is there a dead watcher already or are you being purposefully dense?

[Spambot]

Okay. If you believe that Hasd is scum, and that he targetted the doctor (Peers) and that Peers survived that (for a little while) and that Hasd knew that Peers was town (though there are possibly two scum groups here, werewolves and Mafia, so I don't know that scum would KNOW that someone was town)...

then, since Hasd couldn't explain why Peers survived... why would he make such statements? Why not let town go ahead and lynch Peers, which might have seemed likely? Hasd-scum, in this scenario, knows his nightkill didn't go through... so he knows that Peers was targeted... so if he can't NK the doc, why not try to lynch him? The doc surviving CAN'T be a good thing for scum.

If I were smart scum in this scenario, and I put in a kill and it didn't work, I would assume "no cross kill" protection, as opposed to "NK-immune doc", and I would push quite hard for Peers' lynch as a member of the opposing scum team that I would then assume existed. It's win win, because then I'd get the townie points for catching scum without losing anyone on my own team.

Tell me how my logic is wrong.

This is BLATANT circular logic. You are making assumptions about what he would do as scum, when you really have no idea. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the term WIFOM, but that.

[Spambot]

Hasdagas is probably nervous that he might have been tracked doing the nightkill, he's trying to explain it away, he realizes he betrayed his knowledge that Peers had resisted the NK. Or he wants to use the "information" he had about Peer's temporary un-NK'ability to fake an investigative role. But it can only be a fake.

Setael, do you really think Hasd would have believed in the possibility of a NK-immune doctor? Doesn't that seem REALLY improbable to you?

I agree with both of these quotes. The only way hasdf's actions/posts makes sense to me is if

A) He's scum
B) He's very inexperienced, not very bright town that I will be so annoyed ended up with a power role and botched it this badly.

Has anyone played with him before? Do we know if he's played enough mafia that he should know better?

And I agree with erg0, I'd like a claim and I'd like him to talk more so we can figure out if it's A or B.

Didn't you just attack people for pushing for a claim from him?

[Spambot]

So, if Hasffgsdh is telling the truth, of the two other kills last night, none of them targeted the claimed doc? That is mind-boggling bad.

Is there always a SK in these big games? If so, both the mafia kill and SK kill would be accounted for. The third kill would be Hasffgdhh. Now, if we have a vig who fired and killed somebody last night, then there would be a missing kill, right? If that is the case, wouldn't it be effectively counterclaiming Hasfgsghh? Is there a flaw in the logic here?

A point in his favor is probably the "also killed" bit, as that's slightly different than the other kill descriptions.

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

[Erg0]

There's not

always

an SK in games this size, but it's reasonably common. If not an SK, it's quite possible that there are two separate scumgroups.

I'm not sure I follow the bit about the vig, but I find it unlikely that hasdgfas would be claiming someone else's kill as a defence, and there's no real way that he could have known about the Peers NK if it wasn't him (or a buddy) that killed him.

[hasdgfas]

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

Not true at all, Spambot. CPR doc can be a very useful role. When used correctly, it's either a protect or a vig kill. Since the claimed doc is now dead, I will probably be acting as though I'm a vig, for all intents and purposes. I hope that you don't think that a vig should never kill for fear of hitting townies?

[Toaster Strudel]

If they are alive, I kill them, if they're dead, I bring them back to life. Last night, it took me a long while to decide whether to target Peers or Quag, because I would have been targeting each for a different reason.

Hasdagas' scenario would mean that the scum did NOT target the Doctor. The vig wouldn't kill the Doctor. The SK doesn't need to kill the Doctor, if there is an SK, he's capable of avoiding being investigated. But the scum has to kill the doctor. Bizarre.

Why did Hasdagas bring up that Peers might have been NK-immune, several times? He would have known this to be impossible.

[hasdgfas]

No, it's more of a "if nobody attacked him before me, and I didn't kill him, then he's NK immune"

[Toaster Strudel]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

Um, watcher? Is there a dead watcher already or are you being purposefully dense?

Watchers know who their night choice targeted. I am not aware of a role where, contrary to a Watcher, a player would know who targeted their night choice.

[Erg0]

I think watchers can work either way, depending on the mod's interpretation of the role.

[Beep! Beep!]

Someone should update the Wiki then.

[Erg0]

It's listed on the wiki page under "Variations".

[Spambot]

There's not

always

an SK in games this size, but it's reasonably common. If not an SK, it's quite possible that there are two separate scumgroups.

I'm not sure I follow the bit about the vig, but I find it unlikely that hasdgfas would be claiming someone else's kill as a defence, and there's no real way that he could have known about the Peers NK if it wasn't him (or a buddy) that killed him.

If he is scum, he is very likely the one that killed Peers. Follow? We'd be missing a scum kill and have two extra townie kills, which I don't buy.