Open 64 - Vengeful Mafia - (Game Over!!) before 551

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

No, I'm not scum. Everyone had voted except me.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Probably should have finished that thought: Everyone had voted except me, so there didn't seem to be a lot else to talk about, and the player I found most scummy was one of the players at L-1.

[YvonneSeer]

That doesn't give you a reason to go and hammer one of the two lynch candidates.

Do you think Xtoxm is likely to come up scum?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Uh. . . in a game where 50 percent of the people who aren't me are scum, I seriously hope my most scummy candidate is scum, or I'll be a little embarrassed.

I'd love to continue this, but I have to go to work, so further discussion will have to wait until we actually have results.

[YvonneSeer]

Well, Xtoxm is not the scummiest to me, so I hope you made the right choice.

[Kinetic]

Vengence Vote Count:

3 - Xtoxm (Lloyd, TheStranger, TSPN)

2 - Lloyd (YvonneSeer, Xtoxm)


It is

3

votes to lynch.

TSPN was left with a daunting choice. With everyone else already using their watch to vote, he had to make a decision.

"Ah, hell. I spent half an hour going back and forth and back and forth, but I'm going to," he let the last word hang in the air as he pressed the button on his watch, condemning Xtoxm.

"Ouch!" yelped Xtoxm. He looked at his wrist, where a small needle protruded from the watch and pricked him just below the wrist. Xtoxm frantically grasped at his wrist, trying to will the poison out.

But it was all too late.

Xtoxm screamed, mumbling unintelligible gibberish, as he curled up on the floor. The rest of the room spread out, not wanting to get near him. Finally, he stopped screaming and lay motionless on the floor.

Xtoxm's watch beeped a solid line, then fell off his wrist.

*Kzzt*
"Well done!" came a raspy voice simultaneously from every other watch. "You have successfully found one of the murderers! Too bad it was only the accomplice and not the actual murderer, or this game would be over already. O well... the game continues! After all, there is no REST for the WICKED!"
*Kzzt*

Xtoxm: Mafia Goon
Lynched 2:20 PM February 13, 2008.

[YvonneSeer]

One of you bussed him out.

Lloyd:

Tries to pair me with Xtoxm. Exactly something the GF would do by pinning a townie to his goon, so that they go down together. A very suspicious L-2 vote switch from TSPN onto Xtoxm with no reason whatsoever which subsequently led to the lynch.

TheStranger:

Derails TSPN from original argument about the self-vote, as if taking heat off his goon. Random votes on Xtoxm which is never removed throughout the day and eventually becomes non-random.

TSPN:

Unhappy with Xtoxm's self-vote but doesn't pursue it any further, instead goes after TheStranger. Carefully laid-out distancing? Also, the speedy hammer is rather suspicious.

I am inclined to think that TheStranger is the least likely to be the remaining GF. It's more likely Lloyd or TSPN.

vote Lloyd

[Lloyd]

Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

TheSweatpantsNinja, it's for the same reason that I voted for Xtoxm yesterday. I don't like how you both unvoted yesterday without re-voting.

Yvonne, yesterday, you seem uncertain throughout the day and seemly lurking. Today, you begin by accusing everyone. What happened that caused a change in the tone of your posts? Are you so sure that you're not scum, and simply forgot to check your PM yesterday?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

This post will be full of WIFOM. I concede this up front, but I still think my arguments will be sound.

If I am scum: Then I am gf, xtoxm distanced by voting me early in the game, and I repaid him back by hammering when I could have just as easily hammered lloyd. Hammering xtoxm, of course, have been a terrible play, but I could have been WIFOMing for the win.

If TheStranger is scum: Then the "random" vote and the L-1 self-vote was a planned tactic. I suspected this at the beginning of the game, but TheStranger had ample opportunity to reasonably change his vote (to me, to lloyd) and did not. I think it is unlikely he is scum.

If Lloyd is scum: Then xtoxm put his gf at L-1. Considering that I had already implied I would vote xtoxm, this is not an absolute clearance, but its certainly a risky play. Lloyd also put me at L-1 and no one hammered. Lloyd also would have bussed xtoxm, which is certainly conceivable. I think it is possible lloyd is scum.

If yvonne is scum: Then the strange ways yvonne and xtoxm interacted seem worth noticing indeed. Also, not on the xtoxm lynch. I think it is probable yvonne is scum.

The nice thing about lynching correctly Day 1 is that we can afford a mislynch, but obviously we should still try and be right this time. What I find most interesting about the day is the votes leading up to the hammer.

TheStranger was voting for xtoxm, xtoxm was voting for me, I was voting for TheStranger.

I unvote.
Lloyd votes me.
xtoxm unvotes.
Yvonne votes lloyd.
lloyd votes xtoxm.
xtoxm votes lloyd.
I hammer.

If xtoxm and lloyd are scum, then xtoxm's unvote doesn't on me doesn't make much sense. Since every other player had expressed suspicion for me, it wouldn't have been all that much of a reach to let yvonne or thestranger hammer. Even if I ignore the hammerer and dayvig xtoxm, there's still a good chance that the hammerer gets lynched tomorrow.

If xtoxm and yvonne are scum, then xtoxm's unvote makes more sense. He could have let yvonne hammer me, but then I might dayvig xtoxm and it would be yvonne who caught the heat.

So,

vote: yvonne.

Will be very much interested to hear what the stranger and lloyd have to say.

[TheStranger]

Xtoxm and TSPN
Post 9-Xtoxm self votes
Post 14-TSPN fos's Xtoxm for his self-vote, says it clearly benefits scum and xtoxm is either scum or didn't think his move through. I don't like this post because it doesn't make any attempt to reason with xtoxm or tell him to unvote. He views the situation as an observer and not an active participant. Assuming TSPN is scum this is clearly because he expects Xtoxm to get the point and knows that he doesn't need to put any actual effort into changing his mind as a regular townie might.
Post 17-I call TSPN for the reason above and a few other criticisms
Post 18-Xtoxm says he likes my response. Calls post 14 a "maneuver" and accuses TSPN of sounding like scum unsure of whether to hammer. He then votes TSPN
post 19-TSPN responds to all my points. He doesn't see how he could possibly change Xtoxm's mind about self-voting. Says he's made it clear he thinks it's a bad idea and Xtoxm can do what he wants from there. After responding to my criticism, he votes me without giving any reasons. only after this does he respond to Xtoxm(who has actually voted him) in a P.S. saying he would have hammered Xtoxm if he was scum(total wifom). I don't like how he votes me when I made clear my problems and asked for a response, but only casually responds to Xtoxm who not only voted him but gave minimal reasoning. It's as if my opinion somehow "counts" more when I have neither directly accused him nor voted him as Xtoxm has.
Post 24-TSPN reminds everyone that I'm too sure he's scum, when I have still neither voted not accused him nor argued anyone should vote him and also while Xtoxm is still voting him with little reasoning.
Post 25-Xtoxm says he didn't know the numbers/statistics and thought getting hammered by scum woud be an good trade-off. I don't like this post because he plays off the situation in exactly the way TSPN said he should if he wasn't scum.(TSPN:he's either scum or he didn't think it through) This is also the ideal way to allow TSPN to drop the whole case against Xtoxm.
Post 37-TSPN says he's leaning towards letting Xtoxm "off the hook". Says he still thinks I'm scum, knows he's too certain, but "feels it in his bones"
Post 42:

And xtoxm: Going back to vote of me: Look at my reaction and Yvonne's reaction. Between the two of us, am I really the one who seems uncertain in that situation?

I don't like this, mainly because it looks like he's directing Xtoxm. Compare this to his earlier FOS and overall lack of diplomacy, now he seems to have no suspicion even as Xtoxm continues to vote him.
post 45-51-a short dialogue between Xtoxm and TSPN still doesn't mention any particular suspicion of Xtoxm.
post 59-I bring up my problem with TSPN's lack of response to Xtoxm.
post 60-TSPN says he's been slowly starting to suspect Xtoxm. Deosn't want to put him at L-1 without further discussion.
Post 61-lloyd votes TSPN
post 62-Xtoxm finally unvotes TSPN after voting him since the beginning of the game. Says he wants more discussion. I think I'll let this speak for itself.
post 67-TSPN explains his suspicion of Xtoxm more clearly
post 68-lloyd changes his vote to xtoxm without any reasoning
post 69-TSPN says he "feels baited". I don't know why he'd feel that way when he calims to suspect Xtoxm.
post 70-Lloyd explains that he agrees with TSPN
post 71-Xtoxm votes lloyd. this puts both Xtoxm and Lloyd at L-1, and leaves TSPN as the only one not voting.
post 73-TSPN votes Xtoxm saying he spent a half hour going back and forth. I don't like this partly because both he and Xtxom expressed interest in further discussion and partly because earlier I specified I didn't want anyone hammering without a few posts' notice. It makes sense to me for TSPN to pick Xtoxm over Lloyd, after all, lloyd was voting Xtoxm anyway, and would probably use his vig on Xtoxm or TSPN(for hammering him and doing it so quickly) either way there's a perfect trail back to the other, so if we assume they are partners, this final Bus makes total sense.

in conclusion,

Vote: TSPN

I will say this once again: I DON'T WANT ANYONE HAMMERING WITHOUT A FEW POSTS' NOTICE! If you do so I WILL assume you're scum and vote you tommorow. If you're town this means pretty much an insta-lose.

[TheStranger]

One more thing, I don't like how TSPN lists reasoning for himself in post 83. Notice he's the only player to do that, and it's something I expect more from scum than town. Scum automatically consider other player's reasoning on them more than a townie would.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'm going to start with the obvious: I could've hammered lloyd. I thought about it. I thought his unexplained vote, when I was the only player who hadn't voted, to the player I most suspected. Not being certain that xtoxm was scum, I suspected that lloyd was trying to get me to hammer town. Hence, feeling baited.

Post 14-TSPN fos's Xtoxm for his self-vote, says it clearly benefits scum and xtoxm is either scum or didn't think his move through. I don't like this post because it doesn't make any attempt to reason with xtoxm or tell him to unvote. He views the situation as an observer and not an active participant. Assuming TSPN is scum this is clearly because he expects Xtoxm to get the point and knows that he doesn't need to put any actual effort into changing his mind as a regular townie might.

We've been over this before, but this is essentially a semantics attack. Just because I didn't specifically say "You should unvote," doesn't mean I wasn't thinking that when I say "this is a bad idea."

I don't like this, mainly because it looks like he's directing Xtoxm. Compare this to his earlier FOS and overall lack of diplomacy, now he seems to have no suspicion even as Xtoxm continues to vote him.

Directed him so well he voted for lloyd. And didn't you suspect me post 14 for not directing him?

post 73-TSPN votes Xtoxm saying he spent a half hour going back and forth. I don't like this partly because both he and Xtxom expressed interest in further discussion and partly because earlier I specified I didn't want anyone hammering without a few posts' notice. It makes sense to me for TSPN to pick Xtoxm over Lloyd, after all, lloyd was voting Xtoxm anyway, and would probably use his vig on Xtoxm or TSPN(for hammering him and doing it so quickly) either way there's a perfect trail back to the other, so if we assume they are partners, this final Bus makes total sense.

Um, no. Again, if I were scum, would've hammered town. The benefits of hammering town vastly outweigh the benefits of hammering scum. WIFOM is not an dismissal. Especially considering that all of our attacks are going to be based in explaining why people acted the way they did.

Your second post is false. I am more likely to list reasoning for myself, because that's just what I do. Didn't really think it was a scumtell to compare my activities with everyone else's.

[Kinetic]

Vengence Vote Count:

2 - TSPN (Lloyd, TheStranger)
1 - Lloyd (YvonneSeer)
1 - Yvonne (TSPN)

With 4 alive, it is

3

votes to lynch.

[TheStranger]

I'm in italics.

Post 14-TSPN fos's Xtoxm for his self-vote, says it clearly benefits scum and xtoxm is either scum or didn't think his move through. I don't like this post because it doesn't make any attempt to reason with xtoxm or tell him to unvote. He views the situation as an observer and not an active participant. Assuming TSPN is scum this is clearly because he expects Xtoxm to get the point and knows that he doesn't need to put any actual effort into changing his mind as a regular townie might.

We've been over this before, but this is essentially a semantics attack. Just because I didn't specifically say "You should unvote," doesn't mean I wasn't thinking that when I say "this is a bad idea."

I don't like this, mainly because it looks like he's directing Xtoxm. Compare this to his earlier FOS and overall lack of diplomacy, now he seems to have no suspicion even as Xtoxm continues to vote him.

Directed him so well he voted for lloyd. And didn't you suspect me post 14 for not directing him?

Overall I dislike you're later actions more because they're more ambiguous. You mention and talk directly to Xtoxm several times, but don't mention any suspicion of him after he's been voting you all game. Only after I mention a connection between you two do you actually say you've begun to suspect him. Post 14 I didn't like because you did the exact opposite. You totally supected him, but didn't try to reason with him at all. I think both are too extreme for their respective circumstances, and you really need to balance suspicion and reasoning/criticisms.

post 73-TSPN votes Xtoxm saying he spent a half hour going back and forth. I don't like this partly because both he and Xtxom expressed interest in further discussion and partly because earlier I specified I didn't want anyone hammering without a few posts' notice. It makes sense to me for TSPN to pick Xtoxm over Lloyd, after all, lloyd was voting Xtoxm anyway, and would probably use his vig on Xtoxm or TSPN(for hammering him and doing it so quickly) either way there's a perfect trail back to the other, so if we assume they are partners, this final Bus makes total sense.

Um, no. Again, if I were scum, would've hammered town. The benefits of hammering town vastly outweigh the benefits of hammering scum. WIFOM is not an dismissal. Especially considering that all of our attacks are going to be based in explaining why people acted the way they did.

Perhaps in general hammering town is better. But in this particular set of circumstances it wouldn't make sense(assuming you and xtoxm are scum) The connection between you guys seems pretty obvious to me, especially later when you wouldn't put him at L-1 and he unvoted you when you were at L-1. Let's not forget that hammering lloyd(we are assuming he's town) would result in a vengance kill. Xtoxm was lloyd's #1 suspect anyway. The only other player he'd voted all day was you, TSPN, so I don't see how you could reasonably hammer town without one of you dying anyway. Ultimately it makes perfect sense to bus in the end. And your final vote also seems too quick to be anything but a bus. If you hammer like that on anything but scum there's a good chance you get vig'd in retribution. Saying "If I were scum I wouldn't do that" doesn't make all this logic go away.

Your second post is false. I am more likely to list reasoning for myself, because that's just what I do. Didn't really think it was a scumtell to compare my activities with everyone else's.

Well for what possible reason would you say it than to lower suspicion on yourself? That seems like something scum would be thinking about far more than town. I would expect scum to be comparing the case against them to everyone else's and that basically what you did.

[YvonneSeer]

Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

TheSweatpantsNinja, it's for the same reason that I voted for Xtoxm yesterday. I don't like how you both unvoted yesterday without re-voting.

Yvonne, yesterday, you seem uncertain throughout the day and seemly lurking. Today, you begin by accusing everyone. What happened that caused a change in the tone of your posts? Are you so sure that you're not scum, and simply forgot to check your PM yesterday?

Obviously I'm uncertain on Day 1 with nothing to work with, everyone is possible scum. And in this particular game where it's 3 vs 2 with a slightly different mechanism, mistakes from a townie will cost the town dearly and I pay extra attention not to be hasty and screw up. That being said, it's now Day 2 and a goon is dead. Now I can pick out the connections between the goon and the remaining GF, which means I have evidence to work with. And with this evidence, I conclude that you, sir, are most likely Xtoxm's GF.

Also, I must say I'm pretty sure I'm not scum since I didn't get a scum PM, but you should check your inbox, it's probably there.

[YvonneSeer]

This post will be full of WIFOM. I concede this up front, but I still think my arguments will be sound.

If I am scum: Then I am gf, xtoxm distanced by voting me early in the game, and I repaid him back by hammering when I could have just as easily hammered lloyd. Hammering xtoxm, of course, have been a terrible play, but I could have been WIFOMing for the win.

You keep using WIFOM in your posts. Admitting to using it beforehand doesn't excuse you from being able to do it without consequences. Stop WIFOMing around because you're clouding my judgment of you.

If TheStranger is scum: Then the "random" vote and the L-1 self-vote was a planned tactic. I suspected this at the beginning of the game, but TheStranger had ample opportunity to reasonably change his vote (to me, to lloyd) and did not. I think it is unlikely he is scum.

So, we agree here.

If Lloyd is scum: Then xtoxm put his gf at L-1. Considering that I had already implied I would vote xtoxm, this is not an absolute clearance, but its certainly a risky play. Lloyd also put me at L-1 and no one hammered. Lloyd also would have bussed xtoxm, which is certainly conceivable. I think it is possible lloyd is scum.

Not only is Lloyd possible scum, it is highly likely. You say Xtoxm placing his GF at L-1 is risky play, but we're talking about a scum who

placed himself

at L-1. I wouldn't put it past Xtoxm to have placed Lloyd at L-1 in the hopes that it will look too risky to have been done. Plus, the only one suspicious of Lloyd was me and there was hardly any danger of him being hammered by you or TheStranger.

If yvonne is scum: Then the strange ways yvonne and xtoxm interacted seem worth noticing indeed. Also, not on the xtoxm lynch. I think it is probable yvonne is scum.

This so-called interaction is not even a scumtell. The more this issue is brought up, the more worthless it becomes. Firstly, I can be friendly to anyone if I'm bored, even though I don't know their alignment. Secondly, there is also no need for me to go out of my way and reveal myself by having conversations with my scumpartner in broad daylight if I was scum.

Also, it's more likely that the GF bussed his goon out, rather than not being on his lynch. This

is

Vengeful, after all. Though, I'm not pointing this out as my defence, but the fact that you stating that I wasn't on Xtoxm's lynch contributes to me being the GF is wrong and in fact, it's more likely the GF is somewhere on the wagon.

The nice thing about lynching correctly Day 1 is that we can afford a mislynch, but obviously we should still try and be right this time. What I find most interesting about the day is the votes leading up to the hammer.

TheStranger was voting for xtoxm, xtoxm was voting for me, I was voting for TheStranger.

I unvote.
Lloyd votes me.
xtoxm unvotes.
Yvonne votes lloyd.
lloyd votes xtoxm.
xtoxm votes lloyd.
I hammer.

If xtoxm and lloyd are scum, then xtoxm's unvote doesn't on me doesn't make much sense. Since every other player had expressed suspicion for me, it wouldn't have been all that much of a reach to let yvonne or thestranger hammer. Even if I ignore the hammerer and dayvig xtoxm, there's still a good chance that the hammerer gets lynched tomorrow.

If xtoxm and yvonne are scum, then xtoxm's unvote makes more sense. He could have let yvonne hammer me, but then I might dayvig xtoxm and it would be yvonne who caught the heat.

So,

vote: yvonne.

Will be very much interested to hear what the stranger and lloyd have to say.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. You were not even close to being lynched at all. If anything, this implicates you more as Xtoxm's GF than me, since

Lloyd voted you and placed you at L-1 in Post 61 and Xtoxm immediately unvoted in Post 62

. Hmm, that

is

very suspicious. It's a good thing I looked back.

If we do lynch Lloyd and he is not the GF, I'll be voting for you tomorrow.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I keep using WIFOM. . . because I think claiming "WIFOM!" is a stupid argument. We have no information that is not clouded by people attempting to hide their motivations.

Perhaps in general hammering town is better. But in this particular set of circumstances it wouldn't make sense(assuming you and xtoxm are scum) The connection between you guys seems pretty obvious to me, especially later when you wouldn't put him at L-1 and he unvoted you when you were at L-1. Let's not forget that hammering lloyd(we are assuming he's town) would result in a vengance kill. Xtoxm was lloyd's #1 suspect anyway. The only other player he'd voted all day was you, TSPN, so I don't see how you could reasonably hammer town without one of you dying anyway. Ultimately it makes perfect sense to bus in the end. And your final vote also seems too quick to be anything but a bus. If you hammer like that on anything but scum there's a good chance you get vig'd in retribution. Saying "If I were scum I wouldn't do that" doesn't make all this logic go away.

Oh, of course it doesn't. But I'd rather have people at least considering 'would scum have done this?' then just saying WIFOM! (yvonne) and then, er, voting me because I did something scum would do, because there's no inherent contradiction there.

Well for what possible reason would you say it than to lower suspicion on yourself? That seems like something scum would be thinking about far more than town. I would expect scum to be comparing the case against them to everyone else's and that basically what you did.

I can only really say "you're wrong" to this. I don't have a lengthy meta record to point to. But as town or scum, I have a vested interest in reducing my own suspicion. Don't you?

If anything, this implicates you more as Xtoxm's GF than me, since Lloyd voted you and placed you at L-1 in Post 61 and Xtoxm immediately unvoted in Post 62. Hmm, that is very suspicious. It's a good thing I looked back.

If we do lynch Lloyd and he is not the GF, I'll be voting for you tomorrow.

Yeah, I know it does. Xtoxm framed me, but the only way I can prove it is by being lynched. Which I suspect will happen. That said, you know who really has to be worried about the next

two

lynches? Scum, that's who.

[Lloyd]

Ninja,

I don't follow your logic about Xtoxm's unvote. Looking at votes yesterday, Xtoxm's unvote seems to point at you more than Yvonne.

Here's a vote count summary:
Xtoxm (1) - post 8 by Stranger
Xtoxm (2) - post 9 by Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1), Ninja (1) - post 18 by Xtoxm
Xtoxm (1), Ninja (1), Stranger (1) - post 19 by Ninja
Xtoxm (1), Ninja (1) - post 60 by Ninja
Ninja (2), Xtoxm (1) - post 61 by me
Ninja (1), Xtoxm (1) - post 62 by Xtoxm
Ninja (1), Xtoxm (1), me (1) - post 66 by Yvonne
Xtoxm (2), me (1) - post 68 by me
Xtoxm (2), me (2) - post 71 by Xtoxm
Xtoxm (3), me (2) - post 73 by Ninja

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, I know it does. Xtoxm framed me, but the only way I can prove it is by being lynched.

But since I'm town, I think its most likely that yvonne is xtoxm's scumbuddy.

[TheStranger]

yvonne, you haven't made a very good case for lynching Lloyd considering you're the only player interested in him, atm.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Activity?

[Kinetic]

Well, since a deadline won't do much in this game, and the rules don't give me much remedy to "entice" you to continue to debate, I've decided to institute a new rule.

If I deem that the players cannot make a decision, or that activity or debate has ground to a stand still, I will enact a deadline. A majority is still required for this lynch. If no lynch is decided by this point, then I will lock the day and give the scum a "Night-Kill". The scum, if they are attempting to use this rule to gain an unfair advantage, will be penalized and the Night-Kill will fail, although the person targeted will not be revealed.

This deadline will only happen if I feel the town is being lazy and refusing to join discussion.

At this time there is no deadline, there is only the threat that this may occur. If the deadline goes into place, you will have no greater than seven (7) days to make a decision. There will be no postponing this deadline.

Imagine this was all said in a sinister voice from your watches if you'd like to keep up the fluff .

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Can we get some prods out?

[YvonneSeer]

@TSPN: The point is, if you don't use any WIFOM arguments, nobody would claim WIFOM at you. The more you use WIFOM, the scummier you look, since townies would definitely not want to keep other townies continuously guessing which alignment they've been WIFOMed into, instead of hunting for real scum. Also, what is your case against me?

@TheStranger: I haven't got a good case against Lloyd? Have you re-read the thread? Never mind, let me summarise it for you.

Evidence:

Lloyd Post 13: Subtly tries to pair me off with his goon Xtoxm using a weak reason (apparent conversation). And although Xtoxm's self-vote is obviously scummy, he places his goon third on his scumlist.

Lloyd Post 40: Again tries to pair me off with Xtoxm, not so subtly this time, but still with the same weak reason.

Lloyd Post 68: Suddenly, out of nowhere, unvotes TSPN (his #1 suspect) and votes Xtoxm (his #3 suspect) and gives no reason. There had been no previous posts from Lloyd regarding him being suspicious about Xtoxm. This is a bus vote.

Xtoxm Post 71: Xtoxm catches on and knows it's time for him to be bussed out. Distances from Lloyd by voting him. Placing his GF at L-1

is

a gambit but he also placed

himself

at L-1 on page 1, plus there was no danger of a hammer from TSPN or TheStranger since I was the only one onto Lloyd.

Summary:

Throughout the day, neither Lloyd nor Xtoxm addressed each other's actions. Then, all too soon, they're both voting each other and one of them is lynched so that the other looks good. Bussing 101.

Conclusion:

Lloyd is scum.

[TheStranger]

Ok, I think my case against TSPN is definitely better than your case for Lloyd, but TSPN has at least a few protown posts and Lloyd really has no redeeming town posts whatsoever.

So

Unvote, Vote:Lloyd

TSPN, maybe you should reconsider you're case on yvonne. I think there's pretty good reasoning for a lloyd lynch. Maybe if you look for towniness rather than scuminess you'll see lloyd really has absolutely none. His only 2 votes are definitely a vote hop, he's always opening his options to vote somebody else; generally spreading suspicion.