Mini 520 - Triumvirate Mafia - ABANDONED

[TrustGossip]

So yeah, fun mess I've started up here.

Mizzy said I didn't place any real evidence in my posts... that's true, I was kind of in a rush and was rambling for the most part. I wasn't trying to be too serious, just thought I'd bring up my views on a few things

in case I was lynched quickly.

There was also an accusation that my post "did nothing" which is true, but as I said, it's just an opinion piece

in case I'm lynched quickly

, with my latest views. I didn't FoS or anything mostly because I wasn't really thinking about it. I already have my vote on phate, which is where I want it to be.

To be honest about the massclaim thing, I actually believed I had initiated it as well. Guess I was just thinking it in my head early on or something.

Phate's logic concerning how I handled claims seems fair, but here's what I was thinking: I said claims were irrelevant to me because I knew scum would try to claim trium, and I am definitely at a point where I am sick of the day, so listening to this claim would only extend our day, which I didn't prefer. On top of that, since I am Trium, I decided that it was more likely a person claiming trium was trium, and more likely that they are scum (2 triums / 3 scum for me in the game). Of course, this sounds like an awful defense, but I think everyone can at least admit I have been antsy to end the day, and my actions may reflect that.

My mind changed on the subject after replies came to my post, which touched on the importance of information from a claim. At least I'm spurring powerful conversation by claiming, even if it ends in my lynching. My position on claims now is that they shouldn't radically change your mind as to lynching the person or not, but are useful for discussion building and risk assessment. Especially if we get 2 or more claims in the same day, then it becomes quite relevant as calculating what is more likely true and helps root out scum (when they are forced to claim that is).

I am kind of aghast that you would let this possibility push you to an early claim, especially in this game. Has

anything

happened here that wasn't a slow deliberate push by multiple people with multiple naysayers?

However, I do believe the content of this post. I'm not exactly sure that scum would try two or three game-changing gambits all in the period of Day One. Either I'm completely caught in your web of WIFOM, or you're pro-town.

[Miztef]

I don't think it was too early. I was at L-2, and deadline is in 6 days, so I thought it best to claim while the town still had a chance to debate over it.

Your right that nothing has happened quickly in this game, but is it scummy of me to have said all those things before my possible lynch? I see no reason why a scum would do so.

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence at least.

[TrustGossip]

So:

Rishi: Vanilla
Miztef: Trium

Question:

Are we doubting Miztef's claim because we believe he is scummy, and we are complacent with Rishi's claim because we believe he is town?

[Rishi]

So:

Rishi: Vanilla
Miztef: Trium

Question:

Are we doubting Miztef's claim because we believe he is scummy, and we are complacent with Rishi's claim because we believe he is town?

I believe my claim because I read my role PM.

As for Miztef, I don't know what to think. I'm kind of watching things play out before deciding.

What do you think of Miztef's claim, TG?

[Mizzy]

So:

Rishi: Vanilla
Miztef: Trium

Question:

Are we doubting Miztef's claim because we believe he is scummy, and we are complacent with Rishi's claim because we believe he is town?

Oddly enough, while I did question Rishi at first, after some thought, I did and do believe his vanilla claim. Normally, it would raise alarm bells in my head, and for some reason it didn't this time.

I doubt Miztef's claim because of the sentence I quoted from him. He almost ADMITTED it was a claim done just because of a lynch and for no other reason. Rishi claimed with the intention to be lynched anyway, and seemed okay with that. Miztef is trying to save himself in a half-assed manner...something I don't think a Trium would do.

[Miztef]

Mizzy... are you saying a trium wouldn't claim before dieing?

I, being a trium, think that pretty much every trium will want to claim before their death. Heck, I wanted to claim right when the game started. It's nerve-wracking to be a trium, you want to hunt scum, but if your logic is too faulty, or say a slip of words, the town wants you dead and you being lynched means massive damage to the town.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy... are you saying a trium wouldn't claim before dieing?

I, being a trium, think that pretty much every trium will want to claim before their death. Heck, I wanted to claim right when the game started. It's nerve-wracking to be a trium, you want to hunt scum, but if your logic is too faulty, or say a slip of words, the town wants you dead and you being lynched means massive damage to the town.

No, I'm saying that a Trium would have claimed in a way that was less, "what have I go to lose?" and more like, "crap, guys, you're all wrong!" Your claim was so passive, so nonchalant that it looked and felt

fake

.

I also think that this post of yours,especially the part, "I, being a trium" smacks heavily of scum going "I, being completely non-scum" and I think you're trying too hard to prove yourself. It also felt like one huge invitation to a pity party you're throwing for yourself. "Oh damn, guys, being a Trium is SOOOO HARD! You have no idea!" That's just plain saccharine.

I don't think

one bit

that a trium would be acting this way.

[Mizzy]

@All:

The way I see it, and please correct me if I am wrong, we have 3 general directions we can take for the rest of the day:

1) Lynch someone other than Miztef and see if he gets nightkilled.

Pros:

We don't lynch a claimed Trium and we get to see if he gets NKed to prove him one way or the other. If he gets NKed and is confirmed, we don't lose all power, just his.

Cons:

If the scum don't NK him and go for someone else, we may then mislynch the trium tomorrow. (This is a huge, huge con in my eyes and it should not be taken lightly.)

2) Lynch Miztef anyway.

Pros:

If he's scum, then we have a really good start and maybe scare other scum away from claiming Trium.

Cons:

If he IS Trium, we lose all power roles.

3) Go a third route, such as getting counter claims or going no-lynch. (I personally don't support these, but they might be worth thinking about...no idea. They

are

an option, if unsavory.)

Thoughs all?

[Miztef]

So basically, there is no logical basis to why I'm more likely scum, it's just you

feel

a trium would not act in such a way.

I can't really defend against you saying you "feel" scum would act the way I do, and Trium would not. It's basically just a random opinion.

The reason I said it was hard being a trium is because you said that triums would not claim as I did. Well, I say we would, because I don't want the town to think I'm being too crazy defensive (by saying "ZOMGZ, Yourz all teh n00bs 4 lynching meh, I am de trium, GOD!") and I was just kinda sick of writing by the end of that post.

I'm not "trying way too hard" to prove myself by saying I am trium, I'm just stating that it is because of that fact that I came to such a conclusion. If I were trying to prove myself as trium, I'd do it with evidence from my previous posts. Unfortunately, I was trying pretty hard to hide my identity, so anything I bring up just becomes WIFOM.

[Mizzy]

So basically, there is no logical basis to why I'm more likely scum, it's just you

feel

a trium would not act in such a way.

Well, if you completely disregard the cases against you, which are the reason you were put at -2L and caused you to claim, then there's no logical basis. However, if you remember that you were put at -2L for a reason, ie the scummy evidence, then it's much more than feel.

The "feel" part comes into your role claim and your role claim alone. For me, it's the cherry on your scum-sundae.

The reason I said it was hard being a trium is because you said that triums would not claim as I did. Well, I say we would, because I don't want the town to think I'm being too crazy defensive (by saying "ZOMGZ, Yourz all teh n00bs 4 lynching meh, I am de trium, GOD!") and I was just kinda sick of writing by the end of that post.

WIFOM, anyone?

I'm not "trying way too hard" to prove myself by saying I am trium, I'm just stating that it is because of that fact that I came to such a conclusion. If I were trying to prove myself as trium, I'd do it with evidence from my previous posts. Unfortunately, I was trying pretty hard to hide my identity, so anything I bring up just becomes WIFOM.

You did already tried proving it "with evidence from my previous posts" but unfortunately, you did so via recollection only, and got facts wrong.

And it seems awfully convenient that you tried so hard to "hide your identity" that you not only came off as scum, but now can't dredge up a shred of play history in this game that helps you...

[Shanba]

Vote Count:

4: Miztef

(Cephrir, Phate, somestrangeflea, mizzy)

2: Phate

(Rishi, Miztef)

1: flea

(MoS)

1: Rishi

(Thin_Man)

Not voting: skitzer, Sir Tornado

[Rishi]

Unvote, Vote: Cephrir

Almost no content, but posts fairly regularly. Doesn't really come up with his own opinions. Just seems to jump on the most relevant bandwagon at the time.

So, Ceph, what do you think of Miztef's claim?

(And seriously guys, go back and read Cephrir's posts. It's a short read.)

[Mizzy]

(And seriously guys, go back and read Cephrir's posts. It's a short read.)

I did, actually, and yeah, it's pretty short. Thin_Man is worse, though, to me.

[Rishi]

(And seriously guys, go back and read Cephrir's posts. It's a short read.)

I did, actually, and yeah, it's pretty short. Thin_Man is worse, though, to me.

Thin_Man stopped posting as of December 30. In fact, his last post anywhere on the site is January 3. He is someone who obviously needs to be replaced (I think the mod is overloaded as is... so I'm sure he'll get around to it.)

Cephrir, on the other hand, is staying active but continuing not to say anything.

There's a HUGE difference between a lurker and someone who is no longer on the site. Disappearance is basically a null-tell. It happens to both townies and scum.

[Cephrir]

(And seriously guys, go back and read Cephrir's posts. It's a short read.)

I did, actually, and yeah, it's pretty short. Thin_Man is worse, though, to me.

Thin_Man stopped posting as of December 30. In fact, his last post anywhere on the site is January 3. He is someone who obviously needs to be replaced (I think the mod is overloaded as is... so I'm sure he'll get around to it.)

Cephrir, on the other hand, is staying active but continuing not to say anything.

There's a HUGE difference between a lurker and someone who is no longer on the site. Disappearance is basically a null-tell. It happens to both townies and scum.

What I don't get is why people get on my case about this but not skitzer's.

I want the Miztef thing both ways for different reasons. The logical/good player half thinks we should definitely back off and explore other options if at all possible. But I know we've done that, and we've done it and done it and done it, and it's not working. Obviously nobody's going for Phate or MoS enough to get a sizeable wagon (on either of our other general semi-suspects, as in, at least a few people have expressed suspicions of them). We should probably make absolutely sure we get to use the powers at least once-- but that basically ensures all the scum claim trium and we are guaranteed to lynch a townie. Also, a little sidenote: is it just me, or did Miztef go into wall-of-words mode when he came under pressure? Weird.

The other half of my opinion is the one reflecting on this game right now, which is exasperated and really just wants to lynch someone, anyone, to get this awful day over with.

[Miztef]

I went "wall of words" mode under pressure because that's what I do. If you meta-game me, you'll see that is a normal habit of mine.

You'll also see that I get lynched day 1.... a lot. Maybe because I suck, I dunno, but it happens to me quite often. (although, my first game I was scum and was lynched day 1, so I guess it doesn't have much to do with my role)

I do understand cephrir's thoughts though. I don't want to lynch him today. Phate or even skitzer as he mentioned are more intriguing choices for me.

[Shanba]

Beep! Beep! replaces Sir Tornado

[Beep! Beep!]

I will try to analyze the players today, if not, Wednesday.

[TrustGossip]

You'll also see that I get lynched day 1.... a lot. Maybe because I suck, I dunno, but it happens to me quite often. (although, my first game I was scum and was lynched day 1, so I guess it doesn't have much to do with my role)

Well that completely and totally sucks.

I want to apologize to everyone because I have four exams coming up, I'm not going to be able to do a comprehensive enough of a re-read to be comfortable with my vote sticking on someone until deadline.

I would vote No Lynch but it's been proven that it's a poor choice to make.

Therefore I'm not voting unless a particularly striking instance occurs that makes the scum abundantly clear.

Again, my apologies.

[Elmo]

Beep

: Hi there! People want to lynch Miztif, who just claimed triumvirate. If he's really a triumvirate and we lynch him, we're effectively screwed; that's probably the most important thing going, at the moment.

TrustGossip

: I don't recall who brought up the idea of a mass claim (it seemed to kind of appear out of nowhere), but I can't find anything like strong support in a short review of Miztif's posts.

Rishi

: I agree with you about Cephrir, but I'm unconvinced he's a good lynch for today, although obviously I would like it if he contributed more.

I'm not sure what to make of Mizzy's thoughts on Miztif's claim. Not even sure if I agree or not. Hmm. I don't want to lynch Miztif today. I don't think we should discuss what the person who gets the doc power should do tonight. Today, I probably want to lynch one of MoS, Phate, or thin_man. In that vein, and certainly until Phate pops up again to defend the alarmingly scummy post 719,

Vote

:

Phate

. (I would be overjoyed if the person who got the cop power investigated MoS tonight, seeing as everyone is allergic to wagoning him. )

[TrustGossip]

Beep

: Hi there! People want to lynch Miztif, who just claimed triumvirate. If he's really a triumvirate and we lynch him, we're effectively screwed; that's probably the most important thing going, at the moment.

TrustGossip

: I don't recall who brought up the idea of a mass claim (it seemed to kind of appear out of nowhere), but I can't find anything like strong support in a short review of Miztif's posts.

Rishi

: I agree with you about Cephrir, but I'm unconvinced he's a good lynch for today, although obviously I would like it if he contributed more.

I'm not sure what to make of Mizzy's thoughts on Miztif's claim. Not even sure if I agree or not. Hmm. I don't want to lynch Miztif today. I don't think we should discuss what the person who gets the doc power should do tonight. Today, I probably want to lynch one of MoS, Phate, or thin_man. In that vein, and certainly until Phate pops up again to defend the alarmingly scummy post 719,

Vote

:

Phate

. (I would be overjoyed if the person who got the cop power investigated MoS tonight, seeing as everyone is allergic to wagoning him. )

Are you already assuming that Miztef is going to die tonight? Because I would think Miztef is the best target for investigation.

FOS: Elmo

for night conjecturing while there is still a monstrous storm of WIFOM to be picked apart.

[Mizzy]

Even though I am dead set on Miztef being scum, I'm cautious enough to be okay with lynching someone else who looks scummy. I may be sure of my opinions but I don't want to screw the town over, either. However, I am not going to vote for a lurker who isn't active-lurking. I would rather have them replaced.

If we end up with two Trium claims today, I think we may need to have a mass-claim or we'll never find a lynch target (and the moment we do, it'll be a townie most likely.) I don't like that idea one damned bit, but it would help to go for the lesser of two evils (never getting off of D1 being one evil and losing power roles being the other.)

Honestly, we can still play without power roles...but we can't play on D1 forever.

[Elmo]

TrustGossip: No, I haven't assumed that, and I don't see how I'm "night conjecturing".

[TrustGossip]

I don't think we'll have two trium claims today.

Simply because it would be (IMO) unlikely that two out of three triums would play despondently enough to warrant themselves as a potential lynch candidate.

i.e. - if Phate is trium, then we have a hell of a time distinguishing between town's greatest aid and town's greatest threat.

After this I had originally written a somewhat convoluted case against Rishi, and why his lynch would be better than Miztef's but I realized it was a sign I was getting just as desperate as the rest of you.

[TrustGossip]

TrustGossip: No, I haven't assumed that, and I don't see how I'm "night conjecturing".

Why don't you want to lynch Miztef?