Weak doc targets town. Scum kills non-doc town. One death, town identified.
This assumes that the town agrees on who will be investigated, and that the scum don't know for certain who the weak doc is.
Those are the only possible results I can think of. I still think it's advantageous to town, because the possibility of the weak doc being killed is the same regardless of whether we use this night or not. But I could be wrong.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
The problem is that all NK results look identical.
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
But not all victims will look identical. That's my point. We'll know who the weak doc is, when they die, and we'll know who they targetted.
If the scum know who the doc is, they will target them anyway. If they don't, they'll either give up their nightkill, or they'll kill a townie, and we'll have a result from our doc.
That's how I'm seeing it. How am I wrong?
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Weak doc targets town. Scum kills non-doc town. One death, town identified.
This assumes that the town agrees on who will be investigated, and that the scum don't know for certain who the weak doc is.
Those are the only possible results I can think of. I still think it's advantageous to town, because the possibility of the weak doc being killed is the same regardless of whether we use this night or not. But I could be wrong.
As I said before, too, if we choose a target that IS a mafia, then the mafia will know, and just not perform a nightkill because then we have a dead doc and no proof that it was a death due to the protect-investigation.
DEFINITELY not a good idea.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
In that specific case, yes, assuming that the Mafia know who our weak doc is, then we mislynch. But they give up their nightkill to do it.
But if the Mafia know who our weak doc is, then he's dead anyway, right?
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Bookitty wrote:That's how I'm seeing it. How am I wrong?
You are missing the fact that the mafia know who mafia are and they will know the moment we choose a target for the doc that isn't a townie. They can just LET THE DOC DIE and
we'd never know
.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
Bookitty wrote:In that specific case, yes, assuming that the Mafia know who our weak doc is, then we mislynch. But they give up their nightkill to do it.
But if the Mafia know who our weak doc is, then he's dead anyway, right?
The mafia don't need to know who our weak doc is for the plan to fail. In fact, the mafia could help steer our target TO mafia players so the weak doc dies. Then there are no more power roles, and yes, they give up a NK, but one less NK to ensure a dead townie PR with no links and a possible mislynch the next day is a pretty sweet deal to them, I bet.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
Wait, no, I misread that completely. Okay, for the sake of argument, let's say:
I'm the weak doc. The town decides to protect Setael. I protect her, and I end up dead tomorrow. "Bookitty is dead. She was the weak doc."
Now Setael might have been scum. Or the Mafia might have killed me. You can't tell, but the chances are you would lynch Setael tomorrow anyway, because in this scenario she's the scummiest, hence the investigation/protection. (I don't really think she is, so don't read into this.) Obviously you wouldn't ask the weak doc to protect someone you actually thought was town.
If the scum choose to kill Setael-townie, to prevent the investigation doing us any good, it will protect Mizzy/Ether from the nightkill. And if the weak doc protects someone randomly, they may end up dead anyway because they protected the wrong person, and we lose them without ANY advantage to town.
If scum know who the weak doc is already, there's nothing we can do to protect them in any case, and if we agree that someone is the scummiest, we likely would be lynching them anyway.
The flaw comes up if the weak doc is asked to protect himself/herself. I don't know what happens then.
Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Bookitty wrote:And if the weak doc protects someone randomly, they may end up dead anyway because they protected the wrong person, and we lose them without ANY advantage to town.
Okay, now that I agree with. That makes me rethink things. Ugh. I wish we had a way to let the weak doc decide.
Bookitty wrote:The flaw comes up if the weak doc is asked to protect himself/herself. I don't know what happens then.
Then we'd know they were innocent...they might as well not protect anyone and just let us see them alive the next day.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
Well, if everyone states someone who they would protect tonight if they were the weak doc, then if tommorow if we find him/her dead, we'll know who they targetted and the scum won't beforehand. This greatly decreases the odds of scum not NKing and prevents the weak doc from having to protect his/herself. Thoughts?
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
Gorrad wrote:Well, if everyone states someone who they would protect tonight if they were the weak doc, then if tommorow if we find him/her dead, we'll know who they targetted and the scum won't beforehand. This greatly decreases the odds of scum not NKing and prevents the weak doc from having to protect his/herself. Thoughts?
We talked about that already and I think if we try and start THAT conversation again, a certain player with an alien "dog" avatar will kill us.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
My thoughts the weak doc, if there is a weak doc, should randomly select one of the masons. That way theres a greater chance both of them survive, if the weak doc survives it blows my theory out of the water and you have 2 confirmed townies. If the weak doc dies you have 2 confirmed scum.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
Porochaz wrote:My thoughts the weak doc, if there is a weak doc, should randomly select one of the masons. That way theres a greater chance both of them survive, if the weak doc survives it blows my theory out of the water and you have 2 confirmed townies. If the weak doc dies you have 2 confirmed scum.
And if the scum figure out who the weak doc is and NK that person, then you have one or two mislynches and a dead doc.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
The two masons ARE as confirmed as they can be. If the doc dies? Then the third power role (and we've established that this third possible power role can ONLY be another doc, or they would have claimed by now) would claim at that point. There wouldn't be any mislynches, in that case, but we definitely aren't lynching the masons WITHOUT a counterclaim.
If we're not going to direct the doc to investigate, I agree with Porochaz's plan for the weak doc to protect one of the masons, with the caveat that if the weak doc ends up dead, it does NOT disprove the masons. Only a third claim can possibly do that.
I believe the mason claim, for the record. I suspect that's obvious at this point.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
I disagree; weak doc is better as a pseudo-cop than as a protector. Instead of directing a weak doc, I want everyone to claim who they would protect tonight if they were a weak doc.
JDodge wrote:I disagree; weak doc is better as a pseudo-cop than as a protector. Instead of directing a weak doc, I want everyone to claim who they would protect tonight if they were a weak doc.
I'd protect Setael.
We did not decide to do this. You can't just tell us all to do something without discussion or agreement and expect us to do it.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
I am GOING to put Porochaz back at -1L as soon as we ALL decide what to do about the doc/weak doc.
I vote that we give a target to the doc who we feel is scum, but not someone we are going to lynch today. This way, either the target dies, or the doc dies, and we get someone confirmed one way or the other.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
Clarification- Re: whether or not to claim who we'd protect tonight.
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
Oh, and one more thing before I go and enjoy my dinner and movie...if Porochaz was town, he'd have been hammered already. The fact that he was allowed to live shows that scum is in no hurry to kill him.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
Don't these options basically amount to the same thing? Or am I missing something?
Is one way significantly safer for the doc?
I think they end up being the same thing. Don't they? Town knows who the doc protected, if they die, and if scum kills the doc, we're still not worse off than we would be if they just killed the doc anyway, right?
JDodge's plan and my plan both seem to amount to the same thing. The opposing plan is Porochaz's, to protect the masons (despite his suspicions, it's still a good plan). So there are two plans under consideration. If I'm wrong, please say so, but I don't see any difference (better or worse) between JDodge's plan and my plan, in its general effect. So I don't care which one is chosen between those two.
Mizzy: Or the scum are already all on his wagon (or afraid to hammer?). This can't be ruled out.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
