Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[DrippingGoofball]

Analysing mathcam is like testing a calculator for rounding errors.

Hypothesis: mathcam is scum.

That's the second time shaft.ed's jumped on a chance to attack someone that could have been easily prevented with a closer reading. To this credit, he's since backed down from one of them, but given how carefully he's been paying attention to the rules, I can't help but feel that it's scummy that he hasn't been paying similar attention to player's posts.

Implacable logic.
Lemma: mathcscum not bloody likely to slip up.

While I'm not in 100% agreement with this plan (the same role may be particularly useful to scum, but also to town; should be working from a weighted net perspective of "cool scum" minus "cool town"?)

I may be misreading this sentence, but if the parenthetical remark is a suggestion to improve the plan, then I should point out that this was already part of the original plan:

Until I see something particularly scummy, it seems sensible to figure out which of the roles

are significantly more harmful if they are in the hands of scum than they are beneficial if they're in the hands of pro-town players

.

The above exchange seems extraordinarily contrived, circular, and incestuous. Read again: "if the parenthetical remark is a suggestion to improve the plan, then I should point out that this was already part of the original plan" - why is that worth a discussion? I'm weirded out.
Corollary: mathcam is easily bogged down in trivial semantics with Adele. Why?

Oman: I think the most important thing is that you don't use your power indiscriminately -- if you feel at some point during the game that you can set up a beautiful trap to catch someone in a lie, then go for it, but take into account the consequences and potential confusion if you're wrong. I'm not sure there's any more guidance anyone can offer.

Solving for Oman: Here mathcam plays Mr. Obvious. Why?

If we have cops A, B, C, then on day 2, we could make cop A reveal first, then cop B, then cop C. On day 3, we permute the order so that B reveals first, then C, then A, etc.

OMG I so don't want mathcam to be scum. He's totally going to take us for a ride.
But then after all this subtle, over-my-head blah blah, mathcam simply "I think I'm leaving my vote on JDodge, with no new reasons than I had before (except possibly for increased lurking)." Urgh.

mathcam's reasoning for voting Oman was incredibly weak. Strange considering how they both somewhat agreed on the value of "no lynch." Strange, very strange. Then long after, after post after post of hardly mentioning Oman and gettin bogged down in subtleties, "Still like lynching Oman."

Strong suggestion: mathcam does NOT get a free pass in this game. He talks a slick, detail-oriented game. But when scrutinizing the big picture, I see some wishy-washy bandwagon riding all day yesterday. I don't like it.

Today, matchcam keeps repeating that Gorgon is the lynch. I would tend to agree with this; however, comparing mathcam's behavior yesterday, and his behavior today (much more boldly going after one player) gives me cause for concern, and we shouldn't rush lynching Gorgon without taking an in-depth look at mathcam himself.

QED

[mathcam]

If there were a Scummy for "Best Post About Mathcam," I would so nominate that post. That cracked me up.

Some responses:

1) I don't see your point as to the conversation I had with Adele. It sounded to me like she was suggesting an improvement to the plan I proposed, and I was just pointing out that her improvement was already (if poorly worded) part of my original proposal.

2) As to Oman -- I don't think it was as obvious are you're making it out to be. Oman took a somewhat belligerently anti-town stance on lying to the town, and I was trying to pull him back from it.

3) I think my difference in behavior (especially with regard to "boldness") between today and yesterday is pretty reasonable given that yesterday we had no information, and today we have much information.

Was anyone suggesting giving me a free pass in the game in the first place? If so, let me know who so I can play more games with them.

Cam

[cicero]

Are we still waiting on people's night actions? I think we are.

[DrippingGoofball]

In the meantime, we can force mathcam's Pentium Processor to play "pin the donkey" at soldering gun point.

[DrippingGoofball]

Cicero. Does mathcam seem scummy to you? For a computer?

[cicero]

Cicero. Does mathcam seem scummy to you? For a computer?

I dont know. I dont have a lot of strong feelings about who is scummy in this game yet. It's still early. And I havent really wrapped my head around mathcam. You've made me want to take a look at him but my deep think skills are in another game on this beautiful sunday so I'll get back to you.

Why you askin' me in particular?

I'm still leaning toward a Gorgon lynch as our best strategy pending better information but I very much want some better information so I think I'll soon be peppering this game with questions. Still, may as well back my Gorgon opinion up with a vote for the moment.

Vote: Gorgon

[DrippingGoofball]

Why you askin' me in particular?

You're around and you're typing.

Of course anyone is welcome to take a shot at examining mathcam's dot matrix, perforated paper output, for COBOL errors, and re-submit to the mainframe.

[Thestatusquo]

mod, can you replace DGB, please?

[Seol]

mod, can you replace DGB, please?

No.

[Adele]

To others. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that Adele is probably scum based on the simple principle that Adele is still alive.

Discuss.

Fascinating. I love this. Adele, Fritzler, Quagmire, MoS will kill me on Night 0 if they can - they can't help themselves. You can take it to the bank. Maybe I should add TSQ to the list.

That's not actually true. In fact, I don't recall

ever

nightkilling you.

Can you provide evidence of this claim, or do you just enjoy making up bad premises to bad arguments?

[DrippingGoofball]

Really? It was a NY game if I recall correctly. I was NK'd Night 0, you were lynched Day 1, and you were scum. It wasn't you?

[DrippingGoofball]

mod, can you replace DGB, please?

And I haven't gotten to you yet! OK you're next.

[DrippingGoofball]

TSQ:
Post #1: "Believe me, Jdodge will help us lynch Oman, but ZONEFACE is the first bandwagon." I bet that if TSQ is scum, one of JDodge, Oman, and Zoneface is his buddy. Since we know it's not Oman, I know it's not me,
Post #2-3: One word, single emoticon.
Post #4: Votes Zoneace, no reason stated.
Post #5: Confirm votes Zoneace, for lurking, which is ironic coming from TSQ thus far.
Post #6: FOS mathcam, no reason stated.
Post #7: Urges a Zoneace lynch because of Zonace's policy vote on himself.
Post #8: FOS JDdodge, no reason stated.
Post #9: un-FOS JDdodge, mathcam, no reason stated.
Post #10: Defends CKD.
Post #11: Berates Zoneace for unoriginal insight.
Post #12: Berates Zoneace for not wanting to discuss mathcam's scheme.
Post #13: Berates Yvonne for not discussing enough when he's hardly discussin himself.
Post #14: Berates someone for crappy logic with a single sentence.
Post #15: Berates shafted for crappy logic with a single sentence.
Post #16: Demands Adele be prodded.
Post #18: Berates someone for not paying attention.
Post #20: At last, content! Unfortunately it's trite nonsense about wifom. Too bad.
Post #21: Asks a one-line question.
Post #22: Admits to misreading post.
Post #23: Asks a one-line question.
Post #24: Admits to misreading post. Jokes with Adele.
Post #25: Chides JDodge.
Post #26: Mr Obvious much?
Post #27: Mr Obvious much?
Post #28: Berates Zoneace for not answering questions.
Post #29: Berates Zoneace for sport.
Post #30: Berates Adele. I approve.
Post #31: Lists 4 questions for Zoneace, which smell of a trap. Because Zoneace really has no reason not to answer these questions if he's scum - it's not like the in themselves, his answers are indicative of anything. I think TSQ is trying to push Zoneace's buttons in order to trip him up and upset him.
Post #32: Chides shafted.
Post #33: FOS's CKD, for "over-reacting."
Post #34: Expands on why he finds CKD suspicious. It smells like an afterthought, though. I don't like it.
Post #35: Votes CKD; FOS Zoneace; FOS shafted
Posts #36-37-38-39-41: One-word posts, or close to one word.
Post #42: Votes Zoneace again.
Post #43: TSQ gets into policy vote argument with Zoneace. Very scummy. "You know, just because I don't like you doesn't mean I am bringing that into the game." Yeah right, like we're all idiots and we can't see that's exactly what you're doing.
Post #44: Points out that Zoneace ignored post 43 (Zoneace is taking the high road IMHO).
Posts #45-46: Rubbish.
Post #47: Demands that more attention be paid to the contrived feud between himself and Zoneace. VERY SCUMMY.
Posts #48: Continues to distract with his Zoneace agenda.
Posts #49-50: Suddenly gets defensive.
Post #51: Mr Obvious states that no lynch is not a good idea.
Post #52: Berates shafted with cross-posting/timing semantics.
Post #53: Berates shafted for parroting him. What? Is shafted going after Zoneace?
Post #54: Demands prod of JDodge and Oman.
Post #55: If Oman is town, Adele is cleared. Mmmmm.... is she???
Post #57: votes back shafted.
Post #58: Demands to be replaced to run away from Zoneace.
Post #59: More drama about being replaced to run away from Zoneace.
Post #60: "I would continue playing this game only if Zoneace will stop trying to pass off every action I make as somehow having to do with him. Otherwise, I am out of here. Zoneace, you willing to do that?" Why doesn't TSQ do that himself?
Post #61: Enlightens CKD.
Post #63: Does not agree with LAL.
Posts #64-65-66-67-68: More drama with Zoneace.
Post #69: Asks a useless question.
Post #70: Berates Adele and votes Adele.

...to be continued...

[Adele]

See, the problem with DGB is she's so committed and earnest. She'll put hours and hours into research, then use an irrelevant item of information to determine her obvscum and extrapolate an elaborate theorum from the obvscum premise.

3 pages later, she'll repeat, with a high chance of ruling out her prior obvscum as now obvtown.

Lather, rinse, repeat. I suggest we try to ignore her until she makes a substantive and useful point (which she'll do every once in a while, just to force you to read all of her immense posts).

[shaft.ed]

OK after an unexpected extension to my trip (thanks much Delta, he said sarcastically) I'm back in town. I did try to keep up with the thread while away, but I'm still a bit foggy. All I can say it I now understand what it means to be goofballed. I'll try to wade through the postings to converse on various relevant topics.

I will say that I am troubled that Gorgon has posted once since either being targeted by Sylar or being Sylar. In that post he does a rather thorough job of defending himself from DGB. I find the over defensiveness scummy.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am still good with my vote on Gorgon

[mathcam]

Ditto. Except my vote's not on Gorgon.

Vote: Gorgon.

Cam

[YvonneSeer]

What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?

[DrippingGoofball]

What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?

Hmmmmm.... this is a VERY odd post... what is it about Gorgon's tutu that you want to save him, and keep him alive as long as CKD is alive?

When I'm done with TSQ, you're next under the magnigoofballing glass.

[curiouskarmadog]

What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?

why? to see if the SK strikes tonight? If they dont, will your opinion of the situation change? I targetted Gorgon because I felt he was one of the scummiest out of day 1 and I felt that scum would think I would jail Shafted instead. I think Gorgon is still scum...I think he knows that he has been caught, and that is why he is hardly posting in here...anyone curious why Gorgon is not scum hunting today?

why not lynch Gorgon and let me jail someone else? Why is telling me how to use my role a better choice? Who would you rather lynch instead? Who do you think is mafia? our SK?

[DrippingGoofball]

TSQ cont'd
Posts #74-75-76-78: Hotly defends town lying.
Post #79: Votes Zoneace again.
Post #80: Suddenly declares shafted to be town.
Posts #82-83: Berates Zoneace for keeling over and not arguing back. I think his DWA tell is bunk.
Post 84: Tunnel vision on Zoneace reaches its apex.
Post 85: Now, I really like this post. It looks like TSQ has suddenly awakened and tries to find scum. He's distracting himself silly with that dumb feud he's having with Zoneace, though, it's really ruining his game.

However - on account of that single post - and I really am disapppointed to say this, haha, I have to reluctantly conclude that TSQ is probable town.

[DrippingGoofball]

YvonneSeer:
"I find mathcam the most pro-town because I agree with what he has come up with."

Ouch. Hail to the mainframe.

"CKD, I think, was a little too opportunistic in voting mathcam after shaft.ed did"

Hmmm, defending matchcam again.

"TSQ, I really didn't like your early FoSes on mathcam"

Hmmm, here's mathcam again.

"Sorry, I don't understand. How will the SK be found out through this?"

Hmmm. Very concerned with SK.

"Hold on there, david, what exactly do you mean when you say you'd rather lose Gorgon than CKD based on their roles."

Hmmm. Protects Gorgon.

"Going by instinct however, I've a generally bad feeling about Adele. Can't really explain it"

Hmmmm. Maybe she's your buddy.

"Also, discuss whether Gorgon should or should not reveal whether he phased out on nights."

Hmmm. Avoids forcing Gorgon, only discussion.

"But seriously though, what makes you think I'm the SK?"
Hmmmm. It's like, how did you catch me?

"Hmm? But the SK can use a power in addition to his NK."

Hmmmm. Acutely aware of SK etc.

"Yes, in fact, Gorgon is most likely to be the SK at this point, and a rather dangerous SK if so."

Hmmmm. Now that SHE's accused of being SK, suddenly, she stops defending Gorgon, she ACCUSES Gorgon.

"Or, Gorgon is the SK and he got Jailed."

Hmmm. Did she think of this all night when deciding who to kill?

"No, shaft.ed is also right. It could either be that the SK targetted a Jailed Gorgon or a Jailed Gorgon could not perform the SK kill."

Hmmmm. In the know, much?

"Don't be giving ideas for the SK, man."

Hmmm. Almost obsessed with SK.

"My targets were Adele and shaft.ed."

Hmmmm. I understand Adele, but why shafted? YOU never suspected shafted.

"I passed on my powers 'cause I thought the SK would kill me last night. The voices in my head are still screaming "Adele's scum!!!". No idea why."

Hmmm. Again that bizarre obsession with the SK.

"What about having ckd jail Gorgon every night from now on?"

WOW.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yvonne Seer:

The only question I have regarding her, is whether she's the SK, or whether she's scum.

I would lean scum, because of the way she linked herself to some players, but completely ignored others.

She' linked to:

mathcam

: early defense scumtell.

Gorgon

: protects a lot in indirect ways scumtell.

Adele

: thinks Adele is scum for no real reason, distancing scumtell.

shafted

: strange night choice scumtell.

The manner in which she links herself to a short player list with either defense or baseless distancing screams scum to me, rather than SK.

The SK obsession is just weird. I think she's trying to look like she's looking hard for the SK, because she's the SK.

QUESTION ABOUT THE SETUP:
Is there a reason for the scum to obsess about the SK? Or should the town obsess with the SK for some reason?

[Thestatusquo]

My eyes.

Vote: Gorgon

I'll buy it.

[mathcam]

I agree there there's little merit to Yvonne's latest plan. What's the point? We're just going to end up lynching someone less likely to be scum than Gorgon is, so it's not like we're helping save innocent lives here.

I think DGB made that hidden insightful comment that Adele alluded to -- I think she makes a good case against Yvonne.

FOS: Yvonne.

Cam