Weather Mafia -- Divine Intervention? Over

[Porochaz]

My thought is that currently BBerry knows through his role PM that there are no vanilla townie roles whatsoever and has made use of that... Id like someone to link a game to me where theres been just 1 vanilla townie in a large game because I havent seen one either.

[hasdgfas]

wow, Xtoxm, you still don't believe it possible that Glork told the scum that there weren't vanilla townies? It's glorkmodding, just about anything is possible. Never make assumptions about the setup or mod actions, it just doesn't work.
Plus, you seem to be trying far too hard to defend BB still. Let him defend himself sometimes and you may see things that you otherwise wouldn't. You aren't even letting him talk, when him talking might possibly lead to more evidence of him being scum/only vanilla townie. Defending

someone else

as fervently as you have when they are this scummy suggests one of two things to me.
1) You know he is town because you're scum and therefore want townie points if he is lynched because you were against the lynch.
2) You're town and believe he is town so much that you are willing to piggyback off of him

and

defend him accusations directed at him when he could easily do that himself.

Since rule number 1 of a townie is don't trust anyone until you've seen good evidence that they can be trusted, and you're not following that, I'm quite happy with my vote where it is.

[Xtoxm]

I believe i've seen good evidence...

[Gorrad]

I'm with fhwqwgads here. Xtom, YOU'RE ON MY LIST! #2 on my list, to be precise.

[hasdgfas]

I believe i've seen good evidence...

That he can be trusted? He was responsible for the lynch of Niv on Day 1 because of a lie. Why would that make you believe that he can be trusted?

[Xtoxm]

I'm with fhwqwgads here. Xtom, YOU'RE ON MY LIST! #2 on my list, to be precise.

You share the same position on mine

[Xtoxm]

I believe i've seen good evidence...

That he can be trusted? He was responsible for the lynch of Niv on Day 1 because of a lie. Why would that make you believe that he can be trusted?

Monkey getting the same result on him as me, and his claim of only vanilla. I can't see scum being told this, I can see a townie being told this.

I also have got a general town vibe off his posts today. He sounds pretty sincere in what he's saying should he be lynched.

[Gorrad]

Are you kidding? If I ever had a one-townie game, there's no way in the nine rings I'd NEVER tell them! It's too much fun to watch the town squirm, knowing they've got one vanilla townie so, by their logic, there must be more, but powerroles keep dying! Gasp! I'm not saying Glork's the kind like me who would want to watch townies squirm, but if it were me, I'd tell the scum sooner than the townie.

[Iammars]

Are you kidding? If I ever had a one-townie game, there's no way in the nine rings I'd NEVER tell them! It's too much fun to watch the town squirm, knowing they've got one vanilla townie so, by their logic, there must be more, but powerroles keep dying! Gasp! I'm not saying Glork's the kind like me who would want to watch townies squirm, but if it were me, I'd tell the scum sooner than the townie.

I'd be like that too, but the question is neither if you or I would do that, but whether or not Glork would. I'm tempted to say no.

Plus, this isn't your 20/25 person game. We only started with 16. Only one townie makes complete sense.

This wouldn't be the first time that a mod has made only one vanilla townie and told the vanilla of this. I think that a H2G2 mafia was once like this, but I can't remember which one/where it is. I'll do some searching when I have some time.

[Cyberbob]

I'm back.

I believe Blackberry's claim. As has been said, a one-townie theme game is certainly plausible, and I think Monkey is either not fully sane or has been affected by the weather (every other role which has been uncovered would appear to be, so I don't think this is too much of a leap).

[Blackberry]

Its ok. Having a read through I don't see Blackberry as pro-town at all. You cant be protown and fake claim, its just wrong... especially from someone whos been on the site

for over 2 years...

vote Blackberry

. That to me is the scummiest thing Ive seen...

Im not liking the jester talk, so Twomz is making me slightly suspicious at the moment.

My next job in this thread will be to look at Xtoxm's posts seperately... but that can wait for another night...

I just wanted to point out, this is one of my first games in a very long time. I've mostly been doing General Mish Mash stuff because mafia games bored me because of how slow they were, lol.

[Blackberry]

Ok, I thought of something, but it's kinda like WIFOM (which I hate) but it kinda makes sense.

First Thought -- Mafia would wanna go after me for an easy lynch today.

Second (just now) Thought -- After revealing my role and claiming to be the only townie, the mafia now know that EVERYONE else has a power role and it may benefit them to go after someone else instead (to eliminate a power role).

[Gorrad]

Thought -- After revealing my role and claiming to be the only townie, the mafia now know that EVERYONE else has a power role

O RLY?

[Blackberry]

Thought -- After revealing my role and claiming to be the only townie, the mafia now know that EVERYONE else has a power role

O RLY?

It seems to me that you AGREE with my statement and thus believe me to be telling the truth and YET you are voting me.

Me thinks scum just messed up.

I like my vote where it is.

[hasdgfas]

Hey BB, cold-weather townie is a power role?
Also, miller!=vanilla townie, yet it isn't a power role(yes, I know that it's not necessarily in the game, it's just an example), so saying that everyone else has a power role is completely false because we don't know what roles are in the game, and there are definitely roles which aren't vanilla townie which also aren't power roles.

[Blackberry]

Hey BB, cold-weather townie is a power role?
Also, miller!=vanilla townie, yet it isn't a power role(yes, I know that it's not necessarily in the game, it's just an example), so saying that everyone else has a power role is completely false because we don't know what roles are in the game, and there are definitely roles which aren't vanilla townie which also aren't power roles.

I'm fairly confident Cold-Weather Townie is a Bullet-Proof Townie (during Cold Weather) -- So would that be considered a POWER ROLE or not? O_o

I think you get the point of what I was saying though.

[armlx]

Hmm, given the Berry not playing mafia recently I'm inclined to believe him a lot more now. I just came back and I know for sure I've thought a lot about non-orthodox tactics like he used, given the way mafia tends to stagnate into metacalls and what not.

[ChaosOmega]

I missed a good bit since I was gone. Right now, I'm going to focus on 4 people: Blackberry, Xtoxm, Monkey, and Gorrad.

Day 2, Monkey claims Inspector Hound and says he investigated Blackberry night 0 and Xtoxm night 2, receiving guilty on both. I think it's a bit weird that Monkey happened to investigate the most suspicious person from day 1, but that could just be coincidence. He wasn't under any pressure to claim, which makes it more strange. From the way they were talking day 1, I don't think they're both scum. It's a bit of WIFOM, but I don't think 2 scum would go on like that. Because I don't think they're both scum, I believe either Monkey is scum or has sanity issues.

Going back to Xtoxm and Blackberry, part of their discussion day 1 was talking about the Godfather, which I thought was kind of strange. Granted, this is just a shitload of speculation, but it could be that one of them is townie and one of them is the Godfather, and if Monkey has an investigative role and is insane, would receive guilties on both. If Monkey isn't lying about his claim, he probably is insane, since I think his role is gotten from the play "The Real Inspector Hound".

The first of these, Inspector Hound, is the official detective in the play but, ironically, is the one who plays the smallest role. He arrives at the manor wearing “swamp boots” and carrying a foghorn.

He is a parody of Arthur Conan Doyle’s famous sleuth, Sherlock Holmes, and very precise in his manner, like Holmes, but his Holmes-like deductions are way off the mark.

Upon spotting the body, he declares he has found Lady Muldoon’s missing husband, Albert. Despite repeated attempts by Cynthia to assure him otherwise, he is firm before finally conceding “are you sure?” Upon entering the manor, he makes a very Holmes-like statement as he asks Cynthia to take her time, “begin at the beginning and don’t leave anything out,” despite the fact that nothing has happened that would warrant such a statement.

The ineptitude of Inspector Hound is another way that Stoppard sends up the cosy conventions of crime fiction.

Emphasis mine. If Monkey is insane, Blackberry and Xtoxm are either both town or town and Godfather. They've both been suspicious for different reasons (Blackberry for lying day 1, resulting in a townie lynch, and Xtoxm for his staunch defense of Blackberry and overall not helpful comments.), and I'm not sure which of the two would be the better choice, if any.

However, I still think Gorrad is the best bet for today. In addition to hammering early day 1 without allowing for more discussion, you also said this:

My policy on jesters is to just go ahead and lynch them.

Ach. Even if it's not game over, lynching jesters usually isn't a good play. I don't know why Twomz even brought up jesters, but I think advocating their lynch is worse.

And pretty much the rest of your day 2 posts have been railing on Blackberry, with one exception or so. I agree that Blackberry needs to be looked at, but he's not the only one.

[Gorrad]

Why is lynching jesters bad? All they do is detract from town, might as well have them win and get it over with.

[Porochaz]

Hey BB, cold-weather townie is a power role?
Also, miller!=vanilla townie, yet it isn't a power role(yes, I know that it's not necessarily in the game, it's just an example), so saying that everyone else has a power role is completely false because we don't know what roles are in the game, and there are definitely roles which aren't vanilla townie which also aren't power roles.

I'm fairly confident Cold-Weather Townie is a Bullet-Proof Townie (during Cold Weather) -- So would that be considered a POWER ROLE or not? O_o

You seem to make a lot of assumptions... I thought the cold-weather townie was someone who could make the weather colder at 1 point (or more) during the game... not a bullet proof townie... in fact I believe there is also a hot-weather townie who makes it hotter.

I also wouldnt consider a partially bullet proof townie a power role, a power role in my eyes is someone who has a power at night, ie. can protect someone/investigate etc. a bullet proof townie still goes to bed at night and falls asleep... and if he/she gets shot they stay alive...

[Twomz]

There are enough different weather phases in the game for us to be able to assume that there is at least some use for each one... with 16 players that leaves little or no room for townies.

ChaosOmega brings up a good point with the wiki post. Testing monkey to make sure is still preferable than just assuming he's paranoid or insane.

IMO, BB is the better lynch, because if he is scum, then xtoxm is most likely scum too, but I see no evidence of it going the other way.

If we do not want to test the investigation results, then I wouldn't mind a Gorrad wagon (I don't know yet if he merits a lynch or not). Heck, any wagon would be ok, as long as we don't let the game stall out this far into Day 2.

[ChaosOmega]

Why is lynching jesters bad? All they do is detract from town, might as well have them win and get it over with.

Why is letting scum live bad? All they do is blend in with the town, might as well have them win and get it over with.

As a rule of thumb, having someone not town win is bad unless you're not town. Besides, there most likely isn't a jester anyway, so I don't think we should be too concerned about it.

IMO, BB is the better lynch, because if he is scum, then xtoxm is most likely scum too, but I see no evidence of it going the other way.

Well, like I said before, with the way they were interacting with each other day 1, I can't see them both being scum either way. However, if I had to choose one to be the better lynch, I would also go with Blackberry, for 2 reasons:

1. He blatantly lied day 1 to get somebody lynched who he thought was suspicious from the first 4 pages of the game. Even if you think they're scum, let it play out a bit more to get some more information.

2. Lynching Blackberry will have less of a consequence than lynching Xtoxm, assuming they are both town. Blackberry has said he is vanilla, and he is the only one. I'm going to assume he's not going to lie about this as well as a townie with an ability, which limits down his possible roles to vanilla townie or scum. Xtoxm is either scum or townie, but taking into account what Blackberry said, Xtoxm should have an ability if he is aligned with the town. Even if Blackberry is telling the truth now, he could be a detriment to the town later. Also, if he's telling the truth, he's given us the most important information regarding what he knows, which would help if we get into a massclaim situation later.

I think the choice today is between Blackberry and Gorrad. Gorrad has just been all-around suspicious, but Blackberry would help in determining the sanity issues of Monkey. However, if Monkey has his results also influenced by the weather, that will make things more difficult to determine exactly how his results are affected by everything.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is for now, but I would support either of their lynches.

[Xtoxm]

If it comes down to choice between Gorrad and BB i'm definitely voting Gorrad.

I'd quite like to see a new vote count.

[Monkey]

I think it's a bit weird that Monkey happened to investigate the most suspicious person from day 1, but that could just be coincidence.

It really was just coincidence.

[Xtoxm]

I think monkey's telling the truth cos making up a claim like that is a bit pointless if you're scum, as far as I can see.