Mafia 72: Peril in Panama - Game over!


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:31 pm

Post by Setael »

After rereading, I think the last 2 scums (assuming 4 which seems likely as there is obviously no SK) are Lowell and Dragon Phoenix. Of all the players, their play has been the safest and most low key.

My main reason for thinking it's both of them is when Lowell replaced in, he listed DP as his #1 choice for scum. Then, when DP was the 2nd vote on the Bookitty wagon and didn't move it, he declared DP town. This seems like a perfect scum move to me. Come in accusing a scum buddy to distance, but when that scum buddy does something you can call an irrevocably townie move, use it as a reason to clear them. It would also be wise to clear anyone else at the same time whose play on the GF wagon seemed townie - lowell did so, also clearing pete d, vollkan and MoS for their Bookitty wagon play. His quote about ckd looks like distancing without wanting to start a real wagon:
lowell wrote:The "I Don't Know What To Make Of Them" List:

ckd. EVERYTHING about his actions reeks of scumminess during the leadup to the bookitty lynch. The worst, in my opinion, are posts 470 and 472, where he intentionally tries to curb the Albert/boo discussion and generalize the game (always a bad sign).

So, basically, he'd be a shoo-in for scum except for... post 513. He places the deadline hammer vote. So, I dont' know what to make of him.
Doesn't mention the possibility that ckd was hammering for townie points, just calls it a Super Townie Move and uses the hammer to counteract all the scummy things he listed. Looks especially bad to not be able to form an opinion on ckd, but call Setael1 and Porochaz definite scum for Bookitty wagon play which was not any juicier than what he had on ckd.

So then lowell lurks through the entire ckd wagon and doesn't post at all that day. After clearing vollkan as town for the Bookitty wagon, his very next post is to join the vollkan wagon:
lowell wrote:vote vollkan. If Albert says "jump", I say "how high"?
He gives no reason to go from thinking vollkan is definitely town to being willing to lynch him. Shifts all the responsibility for a vollkan mislynch to ABR.

Besides Lowell's posts which make me think he and DP are scum together, reading DP in exclusion raises eyebrows. Too perfect a voting record, and too perfect placement of votes on scum wagons, as though he knows everyone's alignment and wants to look really good come end game. He's given minimal content, agreeing with others a lot. His ckd vote on Nov 15 doesn't seem justified - looks like it was just for distancing. Then gives several posts expressing impatience the game’s not going faster and wanting deadlines. Bookitty vote Dec. 27 could easily be bussing.

Reading DP's posts from yesterday, it seems as though he knew vollkan would come up town. Goes for the Porochaz wagon, the obvious and easiest wagon for scum to push.

eenie meenie miney mo

vote: Lowell
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:47 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

I was pretty convinced that vollkan would come up town for the reasons I posted yesterday. That was one stupid lynch in my book.

And for the same reasons as yesterday:
vote Porochaz
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:33 am

Post by Patrick »

Votecount

Lowell (1) -- Setael
Porochaz (1) -- Dragon Phoenix

Not voting: Shanba, Battle Mage, Lowell, Porochaz, pete d, farside22, Mastermind of Sin
9 alive, 5 to lynch.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:06 am

Post by farside22 »

Well I don't get to do I told you so dance and I don't get my reward for being right. :(
Alright back to who the real scum is.

vote Porochaz


Satael: I think you are sadly mistaken. BooKitty would have lived if the scum avoided lynching her. It makes no sense when no one was really voting and some people were trying to sway the votes else where and some didn't vote at all. I think Lowell and DP voting for BooKitty was not scummie. The people who tried to sway the votes or the ones who didn't vote against her are the more likely suspects.

Top 2 suspects:
1) Porochaz: stated many, many times
2) Satael: This one is more due to the comment she made yesterday. She stated why would no one have died a second night in a row. I think it was possible because the person who was scum didnt send in the info. I recall that Satael took over a role of a person who really hadn't been around. She seemed bent to push the Volkan vote away from Porochaz and now her comment Post 750 seems farfetching to me.
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:06 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Vote: Porochaz


Notice: I will be leaving Mafiascum in the near future. As a result, I will be cutting back on games where possible. I'm going to try not to be replaced if I can, but this is an advance notice that my activity WILL decrease.
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:35 pm

Post by pete d »

vote: Porochaz
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:12 pm

Post by Setael »

*sigh*

NO ONE HAMMER.

Since Porochaz is at -1, I think I need to claim to keep you people from lynching a confirmed townie. Porochaz isn't scum, but I have no faith that he'll be able to talk himself out of this lynch, and I agree that his play has been sketchy enough to have earned all his votes and I therefore have no faith that I'll be able to talk anyone out of lynching him without outing myself anyway.

I'm the cop. There's a reason I think DP and Lowell are the last 2 scums.

streeflo investigated MoS N1 and got an innocent. He investigated setael1 N2 which is unfortunate, and last night I investigated Porochaz and got an innocent.

So the player list looks like this:

TOWN

Setael - COP
Shanba - MASON
MoS - INNOCENT
Porochaz - INNOCENT

POSSIBLE SCUMS

farside22 (replacing Unright)
Lowell (replacing richman99)
Dragon Phoenix
pete d

CLAIMED, UNCONFIRMED (possibly scum)

Battle Mage - CLAIMED DOC

Looking at Bookitty's case D1 on pete d I doubt he's scum and looking at farside's play, I think she's more likely to be town than DP and Lowell. Anyone who has time to look into it more deeply I'd appreciate insight from since I could be wrong about which 2 of the 4 are scum.

I don't feel so bad about claiming because supposedly we have a doc. The mafia has been WIFOMing us by not NKing BM and this is a way to find out if the claim is true or not. If BM doesn't protect me tonight, we'll know he lied and won't get screwed trusting him clear until end game. So as much as I'd rather stay hidden, there are benefits to me claiming and it's worth keeping Porochaz in the game.

Unvote please, people.
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:28 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Unvote Porochaz


Need a re-read with this new info.
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:29 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

BTW - Setael please explain why you apparently know that there are 2 scum left?
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:48 pm

Post by Shanba »

Hrm.

Well this is interesting.

We were going to be after you, today, setael - but I don't really see you claiming that as cop. No way - you wouldn't want to lose two easy mislynches. That said, I don't really think DP is scum. I'll have to look at the four candidates again.
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:50 am

Post by farside22 »

Setael wrote:*sigh*

NO ONE HAMMER.

Since Porochaz is at -1, I think I need to claim to keep you people from lynching a confirmed townie. Porochaz isn't scum, but I have no faith that he'll be able to talk himself out of this lynch, and I agree that his play has been sketchy enough to have earned all his votes and I therefore have no faith that I'll be able to talk anyone out of lynching him without outing myself anyway.

I'm the cop. There's a reason I think DP and Lowell are the last 2 scums.

streeflo investigated MoS N1 and got an innocent. He investigated setael1 N2 which is unfortunate, and last night I investigated Porochaz and got an innocent.

So the player list looks like this:

TOWN

Setael - COP
Shanba - MASON
MoS - INNOCENT
Porochaz - INNOCENT

POSSIBLE SCUMS

farside22 (replacing Unright)
Lowell (replacing richman99)
Dragon Phoenix
pete d

CLAIMED, UNCONFIRMED (possibly scum)

Battle Mage - CLAIMED DOC
There is just too much I want to say about this. I'm giving just a little leway (very little). If Lowell or DP do not turn out not to be scum I'm seriously thinking you are lying just to protect yourself from another lynch.

Unvote: vote: Lowell
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:31 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Setael, fixed by DP wrote:
So the player list looks like this:

TOWN

Shanba - MASON

POSSIBLE SCUMS

farside22 (replacing Unright)
Lowell (replacing richman99)
Dragon Phoenix
pete d

CLAIMED, UNCONFIRMED (possibly scum)

Battle Mage - CLAIMED DOC
Setael - CLAIMED COP

CONFIRMED TOWN IF SETAEL IS (SANE) COP
:
MoS
Porochaz
Fixed it for you.
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:32 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Dragon Phoenix wrote:BTW - Setael please explain why you apparently know that there are 2 scum left?
By the way, I really want an answer on this.
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:41 am

Post by Lowell »

I'll accept the claim, though not the conclusion.
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:26 am

Post by Setael »

I know I'm sane because streeflo got an innocent on setael1 and then I came up innocent when vigged.

I am assuming 4 scum because of the # of power roles. Assuming BM is telling the truth we've had a town vig, a doc, a cop and 2 masons. If BM is lying, that's still a lot of power roles to only have 3 scum when there's no SK. I guess there could be MORE than 4 but I think 4 would be about balanced.
farside wrote: There is just too much I want to say about this. I'm giving just a little leway (very little). If Lowell or DP do not turn out not to be scum I'm seriously thinking you are lying just to protect yourself from another lynch.
This statement was very interesting. I could very well be wrong about DP and Lowell. farside seems to be trying to set me up for a mislynch here, which scum would definitely be motivated to do at this point. we have a lot of confirmeds alive and it will be tough for scum to NK them all before we find them. Now that I think about it, farside's votes on the wagons were much later, likely when it looked like her scum buddies were definitely going down and there was no stopping it.

unvote


I need to reread.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:37 am

Post by Lowell »

Yeah, farside's post was suspicious as hell. I still don't really think DP looks very scummy, and pete IIRC did something relatively pro-town yesterday, so that's good enough for now.

vote farside
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:40 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

You could still be naive, setael. Or desperate scum - although I grant you that the chance of that is low.

I don't know how good aimee is at balancing a game - I find a 14 player set-up strange anyway. I would think a 4 mafia group, especially including a GF, is overkill versus a 8 players town that has (possibly) a doc, (possibly) a cop, a one shot vig and a 2 pp mason group as power roles - I tend to think more of a 20 players game with a 4 ppl mafia group and several power roles. That's why I asked why you were apparently so sure about there being 2 scum left, because in my opinion that is not a logical set-up.

I think the most logical at the moment though is that setael is right, that we do have a doc, but that there is only one scum left. And I am leaning to farside on that as well.
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:56 am

Post by Setael »

With this many power roles though, don't you think there'd be an SK if there are only 3 scum?
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:07 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Not necessarily. A SK does not change the balance between mafia and town dramatically, and that inbalance bothers me about a 4 mafia group set-up in 14 players. If I would design a 14 player game with 4 mafia (incl GF), the rest of the town would be power roles.
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:09 pm

Post by farside22 »

Dragon Phoenix wrote:You could still be naive, setael. Or desperate scum - although I grant you that the chance of that is low.

I don't know how good aimee is at balancing a game - I find a 14 player set-up strange anyway. I would think a 4 mafia group, especially including a GF, is overkill versus a 8 players town that has (possibly) a doc, (possibly) a cop, a one shot vig and a 2 pp mason group as power roles - I tend to think more of a 20 players game with a 4 ppl mafia group and several power roles. That's why I asked why you were apparently so sure about there being 2 scum left, because in my opinion that is not a logical set-up.

I think the most logical at the moment though is that setael is right, that we do have a doc, but that there is only one scum left. And I am leaning to farside on that as well.
I speak my mind and I get comments like this. Sorry this claim strikes me as convientant. I think she may be lying. Since I know my alignment and I think Setaels push against Volkan was a little too much and saved Porochaz. Now Porochaz is innocent because she decided to investigate him. Yeah call me suspicious of the claimed cop.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:18 pm

Post by pete d »

unvote
need to reread to decide between Lowell and farside
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:10 am

Post by Shanba »

ok, so...

MoS/Porochaz are off-limits today. BM is lurky. Come back Battle Doc. Setael is scummy, but possibly cop. Farside/DP/Lowell/pete d are our candidates for today.

I think I've said before I think Lowell is scum. That's not really improving, he still reads vaguely scummy to me. Pete d... I still think it's possible it was a bus. I don't think he's the most likely scum though. Unright is prob town. Ckd's probing of him seems genuine, and farside has only reinforced my town read. Dragon Phoenix has read town to me this game. I'mma go re-read his posts just to be sure, though. Yup, he's town. You can call me a fool after the game if I'm wrong, but I'd be shocked.

Don't y'all just love stream of consciousness? Lowell is deffo my top suspect.

Vote: Lowell


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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:15 am

Post by Porochaz »

Lowell's always been up there for me... so I will vote Lowell if he has nothing more to say? I don't particularly want to put him at L-1 otherwise...
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:19 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

More food for thought. I know the scum have been erratic a lot of the game, but WHY is a claimed doctor still alive? There is no guarantee that we have a doctor in this setup, and a doc is anyway a convenient scum claim. I don't think BM is a good lynch today, but let's not forget that he is in no way a cleared pro-town role.
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:20 am

Post by Shanba »

Dragon Phoenix wrote:More food for thought. I know the scum have been erratic a lot of the game, but WHY is a claimed doctor still alive? There is no guarantee that we have a doctor in this setup, and a doc is anyway a convenient scum claim. I don't think BM is a good lynch today, but let's not forget that he is in no way a cleared pro-town role.
I like this post.
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