Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[gorckat]

POST 350
Rikimaru (3) - neko2086, Guardian, gorckat
soupfly (2) - Archaist, SirWario,
Gorckat (2) – Tarhalindur, Arakorn
Arakorn (1) - MeMe,
Guardian (1) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien
neko2086 (1) - soupfly

not voting (2) - Gorgon, Rikimaru

POST 354
Rikimaru (3) - neko2086, Guardian, gorckat
soupfly (2) - Archaist, SirWario,
Gorckat (2) – Tarhalindur, Arakorn
Arakorn (2) - MeMe, Gorgon
Guardian (1) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien
neko2086 (1) - soupfly

not voting (1) - Rikimaru

POST 357
Rikimaru (3) - neko2086, Guardian, gorckat
soupfly (2) - Archaist, SirWario,
Arakorn (2) - MeMe, Gorgon
Gorckat (1) – Tarhalindur
Guardian (1) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien
neko2086 (1) - soupfly

not voting (1) - Rikimaru. Arakorn

POST 368
Rikimaru (4) - neko2086, Guardian, gorckat, soupfly
soupfly (2) - Archaist, SirWario,
Arakorn (2) - MeMe, Gorgon
Gorckat (1) – Tarhalindur
Guardian (1) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien

not voting (1) - Rikimaru. Arakorn

POST 370
Rikimaru (4) - neko2086, Guardian, gorckat, soupfly
soupfly (2) - Archaist, SirWario,
Arakorn (2) - MeMe, Gorgon
Guardian (2) - Pra a Funkee Home Sapien, Tarhalindur

not voting (1) - Rikimaru. Arakorn

Okay...some assumptions on the vote moves here at the end (post 350 is an arbitrary start point, looking a little further back and at content more deeply will be done later)

-if Gorgon were scum w/ Riki, he would have voted soup or me.
-if Arakorn were scum w/ Riki, he would have voted soup
-if soup were scum w/ Riki, he would have voted Arakorn
-if Tarhalindur were scum w/ Riki, he would have voted soup, Arakorn or Guardian

Those are pretty broad and assume no bussing and an intent to preserve the godfather, and there's more to be looked at based on who avoided Riki/Sikario earlier and such, but I have to head off to lunch, so I'll mull it over when I get a chance.

[Gorgon]

Sorry, I've been very busy lately, as can be seen in that I haven't posted anywhere. I'll try and make up for it over the weekend.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, I'm replacing in. Most of you don't know me, except for maybe MeMe, but I'll get caught up and post in the thread over the weekend

[Guardian]

Bah!!! Go town!

[Tarhalindur]

After last night, I'm pretty damn sure that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon.

Vote: MeMe
LOCK ON: MeMe

[neko2086]

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not get too jumpy, eh? Arakorn could very well have been a scumwagon, and I have issues for Meme to address as well, but that's a tad bit brash. Besides, what about Gorgon? Not even an FOS?

So Tar, I was going to ask you why you weren't fond of the Arakorn wagon, just before deadline, but that explains it. I would like to know, however, what you didn't like about the DR wagon. I would also like to know what made you vote guardian.

Meme, I've notice that throughout D1, you had absolutely nothing to say about Sikario/DR. Any particular reason?

Thank you for fixing the vote counts, Gorckat. Somehow I'd missed Arakorn's unvote in the last one I did. I expect much more participation from Arakorn today, and perhaps an explanation why he did not place a vote before deadline.

I'm assuming that mikeburnfire is replacing SirWario... so...
What's up with Pra and Archaist? I believe Archaist was the only one who did not have some sort of excuse for not being here.

That's a pretty good start for D2, I think.

[MeMe]

After last night, I'm pretty damn sure that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon.

Vote: MeMe
LOCK ON: MeMe

Please be specific as to what time period you're referencing with the phrase "after last night": the end of Day 1 or actual

Night

1? Pretty important that you're clear.

Meme, I've notice that throughout D1, you had absolutely nothing to say about Sikario/DR. Any particular reason?

Not true. Witness post #284

168, made me laugh. He claims to have found "Nothing. Absolutely nothing." on Sikario...seeing as Sik's weird three-post SirWario rant had just occurred, I'm rather surprised he didn't at least comment on

that

. Regardless, Sikario hadn't been silent and I found a few items to note -- claiming absence of stuff to examine came off as less than genuine.

[Arakorn]

After last night, I'm pretty damn sure that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon.

Just to be clear, do you mean that both who voted for me are scum?

[neko2086]

Ah, it was a bit buried. Well I stand corrected.

And Arakorn, that's exactly why I'm surprised Tar didn't even mention Gorgon. I'm still wondering why you didn't vote before deadline.

[MeMe]

1) I

was

voting
2) It wasn't necessary for me to switch my vote to ensure a lynch
3)

Also -- just a warning -- my anniversary is the 12th and I'll be out of town for the weekend to celebrate, which means I'll miss deadline. I will definitely vote before that time, but just wanted to give a heads-up.

[neko2086]

And

Arakorn

, that's exactly why I'm surprised Tar didn't even mention Gorgon. I'm still wondering why you didn't vote before deadline.

I was talking to Arakorn, who was not voting before deadline

[MeMe]

Um. Dur.

[Arakorn]

Well, basically as I said I didn't think anyone was suspicious enough to motivate a vote for me, secondly, I thought it was going to get me suspicious. And with results at hand, it wouldn't have helped (lynched with 4, secondary candidates at 2).

Is it an unwritten rule here (Mafiascum-forums) that everyone should vote? Because in my past games, there has always been several who hasn't voted. (Partially because of inactivity, but even active players have decided not to vote).

[Tarhalindur]

I want to hear from Gorgon, mikeburnfire, and preferably soupfly and Archaist before I reveal my reasoning.

Also, we have a couple of players who are in desperate need of prodding (limited access or not):

Mod, can we have some Prods on Pra and Archaist?

[mikeburnfire]

Upon review, I get good vibes about sammich, gorckat, MeMe, and soupfly. I get even better vibes from Neko. But I don't get good vibes from Tarhalindur. If I feel like it, I'll go back and try to find evidence that he's scum. Until then,

vote: Tarhalindur

[soupfly]

vote: tarhalindur

my gut agrees with mikeburnfire.

[neko2086]

Tar isn't making me very happy either, especially since he isn't addressing my questions, which are:
1) Why vote Meme but not at least FOS or even so much as

mention

Gorgon, who was also voting Arakorn.

2) Before deadline, you said you weren't fond of the DR and Arakorn wagons. You've explained that you thought the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon, but is that also why you didn't like the DR wagon?

3) Why did you vote Guardian before deadline?



To Arakorn: Generally, it's a good idea to have a vote at deadline. Not placing a vote before a deadline merits even more suspicion than placing a vote on the wrong person. The mafia's goal is to look as innocent as possible, and not placing a vote is an easy way to stay off bad bandwagons or to not have to bus a partner. A townie's goal is to worry less about looking suspicious and more about finding the most scummy players. Actually, it's OK for a townie to look suspicious early on, and even get lynched (as long as we're not in lylo), because scum also look for easy targets, and a townie lynch can provide quite a bit of information.

BTW, the more experienced players can elaborate or correct me on the above if I'm missing something, but I believe this is the general belief. Also, I don't normally discuss game theory in games, as I think it's a distraction and is usually scummy, but Arakorn is fairly new to this site.


To mike: I look forward to hearing your evidence.

To soupfly: I see you're following someone else's lead with little explanation as usual. Is this going to be a pattern for the rest of the game?

I need to do more rereading. Now would be a good time to start looking at possible scumbuddies. Unfortunately, the extensive lurking on D1 will make this difficult.

[Tarhalindur]

The responses from Mikeburnfire and soupfly give me most of the information I was looking for (and I can live without Gorgon's take on things for now), and I'm pretty sure that I can now break the game in half for the town win, so it's time for me to claim.

I am a Mason-Cop (mod-confirmed Sane, and my masonry is mod-confirmed innocent). I investigated MeMe last night and got a Guilty on her. (This is why I Locked On to MeMe - for those unfamiliar with the term, it means that I am sure enough about someone's guilt that, barring extreme circumstances, I will not unvote that player until that player is dead.)

Now, as for Arakorn's questions:

1) Why ignore Gorgon? Because I don't know if he is scum (and given the way Mikeburnfire and Soupfly reacted to my vote, he's currently below both of them on my scumlist), and I am all-but-certain that MeMe is scum - and, most importantly, I am absolutely certain that MeMe is the play for today.

2) Actually, you have it wrong - I didn't really think that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon until I got a guilty on MeMe. I did, however, think that the DR wagon was a scumwagon up until the lynch - I thought it was fairly clear from my posts that I thought that gorckat and yourself were scum up until DR's role was revealed.

3) Let's just call it a protest vote and leave it at that. Understood?

[mikeburnfire]

unvote

, but not vote: MeMe just yet.

[soupfly]

To soupfly: I see you're following someone else's lead with little explanation as usual. Is this going to be a pattern for the rest of the game?

I don't believe i've done this but if there are examples you'd like me to explain then please quote them.

my vote on Tar was based on the unclear logic for locking on to MeMe. now i understand it though i think its a little too early for a claim from someone with a cop/mason power-role.

in any case i believe the claim and i think we should go with it.

unvote: Tarhalindur

vote: MeMe

[Arakorn]

I also think it's worth to give this a shot and lynch Meme, at least we'll get a confirmation on his role next morning... That is unless someone has protective powers to protect Tar.

Vote: MeMe

Tally:

MeMe: (3) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn)

[Arakorn]

Oh and with 10 players left, 6 to lynch. We've got half, maybe we should discuss this a wee bit more before we go off lynching? At least we should hear MeMe, but having a base of votes could be good...

[neko2086]

I agree that Meme needs a chance to say something. I do think though, that we can pretty safely lynch Meme and have a confirmed cop or a confirmed scum D2. Scum would not likely fake-claim when we're not at lylo, so I think this is probably a safe move.

I still don't see why you wouldn't have voted either gorckat or myself instead of Guardian, but if you are indeed a mason-cop, I suppose it doesn't really matter anymore.

vote: Meme

soupfly, I may have exaggerated that a bit, but I can come up with at least one other instance:

vote: neko2086

Quick re-read and I think this is a good start.

after his latest post i see something.

unvote: sirwario

vote: neko2086

and don't ask for an explanation this time. that's getting old.

I originally thought that I had remembered another instance, but it was a random vote on archaist you placed right after my vote on archaist, and I was asking you if you were going with the flow as a sort of a poke and prod to get things going... the game was kinda dead then.

Still, I'm pretty concerned about you. If Meme is indeed scum, then I just have to wonder why she was so adamant that you not be lynched D1.


In the meantime, that would be something good to hear from Meme. Why didn't you like the idea of a soupfly lynch?

[MeMe]

I have to admit, if I were anyone but me, I'd advocate my lynch today as the most useful. Mason with a "confirmed" innocent partner and "confirmed" sanity is easily disproved with my death.

However, I simply cannot just roll over for the "good of the town" since 1) I'm not scum and 2) for scum to try a gambit like this -- they must be close to being able to win this thing.

My thought process right now: Tar's claimed role (confirmed sanity AND someone who can confirm his innocence) is

so

strong that a mafia group would have to be equally strong -- four "regulars" in a night start...probably four with added powers (i.e. no goons -- tracker, role cop, doctor, vote controller, double night-killer, etc.) in the day start we had. I'm having a hard time buying that scenario.

So, what I advocate is that the "partner" exposes himself now so that, if I do wind up today's lynchee, at least there are two scum outed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

To answer neko: the very first note I made on this game was that vellon (soupfly) was probably not scum based on the fact he'd not confirmed AND he'd been completely absent from the site since the roles went out. If I were scum, I would've demanded replacement for a non-responsive partner pre-game. Since Jenter started the game without vellon even (apparently) getting his role, I think he's more than likely town.

[mikeburnfire]

You assert that Tar's role is so powerful that the mafia would have to be amped up for balance purposes. I disagree, as the mechanics of the game make things unpredictable-- it's why I didn't immediately vote you. I think that judgment is this game is off because we're all drunk. Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

However, it bothers me that you immediately assume he's a lying scum and are trying to predict the mafia's setup based on it. I'll probably end up voting for you.