Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

First off, let me say a big "I told you so" to all those people who wouldn't vote Zorg/BM earlier, especially Day 1. That wagon never got enough support.

Taking out the four masons (unless there's a fifth claimed and I missed them):

2) Simenon - mason
6) Ether (replacing Honary Hitchhiker) - mason
18) Niv - mason
21) Bookitty (replacing booboodafool, replacing Celtic18) - mason

Leaves me with:

1) Korejora (replacing Aimee)
5) JDodge (replacing ckillor)
7) Sir Tornado
11) ZONEACE
15) Setael II (replacing Flare)
17) Elmo (replacing Beastly)

Of which I'd say 1-2 are mafia and 1 is SK/vig if we have a mafia-mason. If we have an SK-mason, I'd say probably 2-3 of those 6 are mafia.

Aimee/Korejora: Was suspicious of Zorg early in the game, and I don't think the Korejora/BM argument was staged. I don't see BM getting into huge attacks and arguments with his scumbuddy. Conclusion: probably protown, or at least not mafia.

ckillor/JDodge: Has almost no contribution throughout the entire game. JDodge has 53 posts, and almost none of them contain original reasoning, or any reasoning at all. Conclusion: Leaning scummy, needs to actually participate. Lurking in itself is not necessarily a scumtell, but this seems more like active lurking.

Sir Tornado: I don't really see much that stuck out to me on a reread, and he's pretty active. The only thing that I noticed is that he's been discouraging any theory that involves a scum mason that can communicate with the mafia, but that's not really scummy since we don't know how it's set up. He does have some reasoning behind it, so it'd only be interesting if we had a way of finding out how the game is set up. Conclusion: protown

ZONEACE: He's playing mostly as himself, but that doesn't clear him as town, it's just not evidence of him being scum. In fact, skimming his posts, I find him lacking in contribution much like JDodge. He's done a lot of voting and attacking of people, but he hasn't really presented cases for his suspicions. Conclusion: Leaning scummy

Setael II/Flare: Flare was pretty scummy, but Setael redeemed the role somewhat when he replaced. I've liked a lot of his logic so far, so he's in the middle atm. Conclusion: Neutral

Elmo/Beastly: Beastly seemed pretty logical, and I like Elmo's posts so far, but Elmo needs to be more active. He only has 7 posts since replacing 2 months ago. Conclusion: Neutral leaning protown.

My suspicion list (scummiest first):

JDodge
ZONEACE
Setael II
Korejora
Elmo
Sir Tornado

Vote: JDodge

[Setael]

I find it interesting that MoS lists Sir T as the most townie player in the game.

MoS, what did you think of Sir T's posts before BM was lynched, as well as BM's last minute vote for Sir T?

Also, your description of JDodge sounds a lot like how he always plays. I'm guessing you've played with him before, so the fact that he lurks and doesn't contribute much shouldn't automatically be a scum tell on him I would think. Any other reasons he is your #1 scum candidate?

[Sir Tornado]

MoS, what did you think of Sir T's posts before BM was lynched, as well as BM's last minute vote for Sir T?

Well... his last minute vote was sort of irrelevant. It was quite obvious he was going to be lynched at that point. So, it's a null tell. Too many WIFOMy things around it if you do not know my alignment.

Also, in analyzing BM's reaction and his claim, I missed the possibility that he was the mafia roleblocker, and considered only a normal scum goon. I think I would have done more or less the same thing had I been in BM's place as the scum roleblocker.

See, what I was expecting from BM was a DGB type power role claim (Vig seemed likely). The real power role has to counter claim in order to lynch the scum. Now, because the scum had the RB and because the doctor was dead (hence they wouldn't have needed the RB on cop) they could have easily RBed the power role and hence minimized it's effectiveness.

However, as he was a mafia roleblocker, I suppose his claim and reaction fits, as a claim and a counter claim would have only given the town one more confirmed townie today, which was clearly bad from mafia POV, and they wouldn't have got a chance to RB the role with BM dead.

[JDodge]

Vote: Sir Tornado

There are numerous things in that post worded in such a way that it fits with my memories of Sir T-scum

[Sir Tornado]

Also, MoS, after spending 4 days convincing everyone ZONEACE's play is not scummy, how do you come to conclusion that he is scum on day 5?

[Sir Tornado]

There are numerous things in that post worded in such a way that it fits with my memories of Sir T-scum

Like?

As far as I recollect, I haven't ever been scum in any game with you playing before this (the only one near enough is Masons and Monks which you modded).

[Setael]

I've never played with Sir T as scum. This is the first time for me.

vote: Sir Tornado

[JDodge]

There are numerous things in that post worded in such a way that it fits with my memories of Sir T-scum

Like?

As far as I recollect, I haven't ever been scum in any game with you playing before this (the only one near enough is Masons and Monks which you modded).

i essentially assume that if i've only played with someone fairly often when they are one alignment every time, that anything outside of what they would normally act like is what they would do as scum or otherwise

[Sir Tornado]

i essentially assume that if i've only played with someone fairly often when they are one alignment every time, that anything outside of what they would normally act like is what they would do as scum or otherwise

Ok...

but still, what "memories" of Sir T-scum?

[Battle Mage]

Ok. Good Luck fellow Mafia Member(s)!

[JDodge]

i essentially assume that if i've only played with someone fairly often when they are one alignment every time, that anything outside of what they would normally act like is what they would do as scum or otherwise

Ok...

but still, what "memories" of Sir T-scum?

pointless semantics argument go

[Simenon]

I don't think it is fair to say I was wrong on BM; much more accurate would be that I was wrong on Zorg (and I'm sorry for that- I just couldn't see how he could be scum).

Obviously I need a reread. But for now

Vote Jdodge

The general apathy quickly turned into a hot pursuit looks to me like a scum reacting to trouble.

[Simenon]

Also, I think I was wrong on MoS. But again, rereading.

[Skruffs]

Hmph. Bah.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I find it interesting that MoS lists Sir T as the most townie player in the game.

MoS, what did you think of Sir T's posts before BM was lynched, as well as BM's last minute vote for Sir T?

Also, your description of JDodge sounds a lot like how he always plays. I'm guessing you've played with him before, so the fact that he lurks and doesn't contribute much shouldn't automatically be a scum tell on him I would think. Any other reasons he is your #1 scum candidate?

I dismissed BM's actions as him trying to flail before he died and cast suspicion on Sir T. Once it was obvious he would be lynched, he was just trying to cause confusion for the town.

JDodge is usually more articulate than this, imo. I've seen games where he posted minimally but was still

useful

. JDodge has been completely useless this game, staying out of the limelight as much as possible. His play is much more useful to scum than town, so I think he's scum.

Also, MoS, after spending 4 days convincing everyone ZONEACE's play is not scummy, how do you come to conclusion that he is scum on day 5?

That's bullshit, Sir T. I defended ZONEACE on Day 1. I have pretty much ignored him since then, except to point out why I defended him Day 1 when Battle Mage attacked me for it. With my main suspect of the game finally lynched, I took this opportunity to reevaluate *everyone*, including ZONEACE. Just because I didn't want him lynched for being himself doesn't mean I don't think it's possible for him to be scum. It's one thing for him to act like himself. It's another thing for him to spend 4 game days contributing next to nothing.

[ZONEACE]

I too am a little confused as to how im now suddenly scummy.

[Setael]

Did you really expect MoS to think you were town the entire game? Would you not have found that a little odd?

[ZONEACE]

im more struck by how it seems to have appeared out of no where.

[Patrick]

Votecount

JDodge (2) -- Mastermind of Sin, Simenon
Sir Tornado (2) -- JDodge, Setael

Not voting: Bookitty, Ether, Korejora, Niv, Sir Tornado, Elmo, ZONEACE
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

im more struck by how it seems to have appeared out of no where.

All of my suspicions have appeared out of nowhere, because I did a full reread of everyone's posts and came up with a read on them. In past days, I haven't had time to reread to look at the big picture, and so only the recent events stick in my mind unless they were major. I wanted to get a better feel for the game on the whole, so I went back and looked at everyone's posts throughout the game to be able to organize my thoughts.

[Korejora]

Well... his last minute vote was sort of irrelevant. It was quite obvious he was going to be lynched at that point. So, it's a null tell. Too many WIFOMy things around it if you do not know my alignment.

Also, in analyzing BM's reaction and his claim, I missed the possibility that he was the mafia roleblocker, and considered only a normal scum goon. I think I would have done more or less the same thing had I been in BM's place as the scum roleblocker.

See, what I was expecting from BM was a DGB type power role claim (Vig seemed likely). The real power role has to counter claim in order to lynch the scum. Now, because the scum had the RB and because the doctor was dead (hence they wouldn't have needed the RB on cop) they could have easily RBed the power role and hence minimized it's effectiveness.
However, as he was a mafia roleblocker, I suppose his claim and reaction fits, as a claim and a counter claim would have only given the town one more confirmed townie today, which was clearly bad from mafia POV, and they wouldn't have got a chance to RB the role with BM dead.

Why would the real power role necessarily counter claim? Especially a vigilante, who can take care of the problem on their own that night if they don't get a lynch.

[Sir Tornado]

Why would the real power role necessarily counter claim? Especially a vigilante, who can take care of the problem on their own that night if they don't get a lynch.

Still. With a RB around, a goon would have claimed power role, IMO. Especially when it was so obvious he was going to be lynched.

[Ether]

This is one of those times where I keep telling myself I'll reread and resume being more insightful than the rest of the town, but never actually do so. Grr.

MoS, Setael2, Kore (bah) and Elmo are probably town, in that order.

I agree with MoS's assessments of ZONEACE and JDodge, except...Colin seems like the most likely traitor to me and his interactions with JDodge make it unlikely that he's his traitor. (There was actually one post in which Colin addressed JDodge with what felt like a breadcrumb, but I still think the rest of his behavior cancels that out. Bookitty/Setael2, you've both actually

been

traitors; can you comment on what to expect?)

I don't get Tornado's reasoning for his -2 BMvote, and his claim logic for unvoting is beyond me. (Cop outed, doctor dead, tracker dead, vig unmotivated to counterclaim, and a buncha masons; what's left to out?) I'm not thrilled with his earlier behavior, in retrospect; the vibe of his Day 1 posts felt more baiting than curious. And I'm not sure who he's suspected recently.

Hey, Tornado, who's scum?

Same question to ZONEACE.

[Setael]

Bookitty/Setael2, you've both actually been traitors; can you comment on what to expect?

Good question. I hadn't really thought about that. I did nothing to breadcrumb or hint to the mafia that I was their traitor. I was less concerned about the mafia NKing me than I was about keeping the mafia from getting lynched. Their survival was necessary for our win and mine wasn't, so I considered myself lower priority than them. Every post I made was aimed at subtly keeping suspicion off them, or on others. I avoided joining the wagon when the first one of them went down, and then stayed pretty neutral on the second one. There were only two so I had to be pretty cautious, whereas there are likely more in this game.

If it's Sim, he's much more experienced than I am and might not feel like he needs to be as cautious as I was. I think any traitor, though, is going to be less concerned about how scummy they look and more concerned about the mafia's survival.

[Elmo]

I have to second the WTFery with respect to Sir T's behaviour around BM. If you could explain how the mafia roleblocker's reaction was inconsistent with being scum, that would be great. I don't at all follow post 2102.

I'm curious as to why JDodge seems to be attracting attention for what I figured was simply being JDodge. Have I missed something? I don't see anything inconsistent with his hard-to-read meta. Albeit I've never quite figured out what I'm supposed to do when he's scum, heh.

I'm going to

vote

:

Sir Tornado

for the moment, I think. I really need to do some more rereading, but I said I'd post today, so I am.