Mini 545 - The Final Stand Mafia - Dramatic Finish!

[Mizzy]

By the way, I am SERIOUSLY ticked off at these forums...that reply in parts sat in the window waiting to be able to submitted for what, nearly 4 hours? GRR.

[Mizzy]

I'm seeing a lot of similarities between Mizzy and Trebis so far. Their defences seem to be quite different, however - Mizzy is claiming playstyle and Trebis is claiming disinterest. That was a very strident response from Mizzy, probably over-defensive in my view since nobody seems to care much about my similar case on Trebis.

shaka!!, do you agree on the similarities between the two? How do you feel about Mizzy's response compared to Trebis'?

I'm on the defensive because a) I'm ticked off at the forums and b) Trebis already tried to whine at me about the same thing (pot, kettle; kettle, pot) and I'm a smidge annoyed that shaka is acting like this is ground-breaking new evidence. It's already been brought up and I already answered to it...I would have thought shaka would have been more original, at least.

I still maintain that sparce or small posts is NOT inherently scummy...it depends on what is in the posts and what context things are held in.

Plus, I already got bitched at for putting in my two cents when the conversation wasn't being directed at me and while I still do that, I'm trying to not piss off too many people. I get yelled at a lot for being too active.

[RetroDucts]

Plus, I already got bitched at for putting in my two cents when the conversation wasn't being directed at me and while I still do that, I'm trying to not piss off too many people. I get yelled at a lot for being too active.

That was me. And I didn't mean to bitch, let alone yell. It was a suggestions/probe as part of the game. I think scum may jump in to answer questions for their partners or even direct conversations. I wondered whether this is what you were doing.

Why are you worrying about pissing people off? Is there something you would be doing that you're not?

You say that there's not enough participation to find a good lead. This to me means that you think scum are lurking. Who, of the least active posters, would you think is most suspicious?

[Mizzy]

That was me. And I didn't mean to bitch, let alone yell. It was a suggestions/probe as part of the game. I think scum may jump in to answer questions for their partners or even direct conversations. I wondered whether this is what you were doing.

I was trying to contribute...and felt a little taken aback that it was questioned.

Why are you worrying about pissing people off? Is there something you would be doing that you're not?

Well, in the first game I was in here, the newbie game, I was a very, very prolific poster. I pissed off one of the ICs in there with my exuberant playing and posting and nearly got myself killed which was bas because I was townie. I'm trying to not make quite the same mistake and your comment about addressing everything reminded me of that first game and how I almost caused us to go into lylo.

You say that there's not enough participation to find a good lead. This to me means that you think scum are lurking. Who, of the least active posters, would you think is most suspicious?

Shaka's and Erg0's sudden mind-connection bugs the crap out of me. It's like a sudden, "Oooh, here's a target, let's get her!" If it's an attempt to see how I would respond, it was a scummy as hell way to do it. Especially since the points brought up were not new, and they were on Trebis for the same shit. Take this, for example:

That was a very strident response from Mizzy, probably over-defensive in my view since nobody seems to care much about my similar case on Trebis.

That smacks of, "This wagon didn't roll on Trebis, so let me express my consternation and attempt it somewhere else because, shuckydarns, I want it to work!"

So right now, Erg0 smells like scum and I'm eying shaka's blatant aggression tactic with suspicion, as well.

[shaka!!]

With all due respect. Not once did I accuse you of being scum, nor claim that what I was typing was some sort of scum tell, in fact I don't think I was even being aggressive. How ever I can see how you can read it as aggressive. I generally prefer to use colloquialism rather than formal writing, it's more 'me'. For example, when I said pick a fight, to me I don't think anything aggressive or 'asshole like' about it because I am a boxer and I live with that kind of thing everyday. Sorry for the whole aggressive tempo misunderstanding.

If you had waited a little bit longer before posting there you would've found out that I in fact didn't warrant much suspicion on you nor Trebis, which is what I was going to say when I was going to type up my proper response to erg0.

I was merely trying to give the game a push and I wasn't aware that you had been picked on Mizzy, which is why I chose you to spur on.

I do disagree about most of the game being one liners, though.

Oh, and if you are 6 months pregnant you should be resting more rather then playing this silly game. Mood swings are bad for all of us (: Congrads btw.

As for erg0.

I believe Mizzy has already answered it for me, it is very hard to play a game when only a few are involved in an argument. I myself find it difficult to involve myself in a game where a few people are arguing amongst themselves, so I often appear to be lurking.

I believe Trebis was just trying to involve himself in the game as best he could due to him not really being part of any discussions. I would've hit Trebis on it like I did with Mizzy but Trebis was already under fire so I decided I'd see if I could try to get Mizzy posting productively.

Notice that even though he is getting replaced, ever since he has been under fire and part of the discussion he has been posting productively?

So to conclude I believe that both Trebis and Mizzy (and myself and most others) are just having trouble including themselves in the game rather than purposely posting all talk and no action.

[Mizzy]

Ugh, I hit post too soon.

I get some scum-pings on Tarhalindur for his 118 post...it seems very wordy without saying much except that he thinks not much is being said. He asks a lot of questions and I don't think he followed up very well.

I should also mention that while shaka feels suspicious, I think it's just me being over-reactive. So I can't judge him at the moment.

[Mizzy]

If you had waited a little bit longer before posting there you would've found out that I in fact didn't warrant much suspicion on you nor Trebis, which is what I was going to say when I was going to type up my proper response to erg0.

Yeah, I'm sorry...I was mid-moodswing and it kind of came out like RAWRPOST. That's why I haven't mentioned being pregnant before...it's usually easy to spot and control moodswings but one kind of slipped through. It's not really a good excuse for me.

Oh, and if you are 6 months pregnant you should be resting more rather then playing this silly game. Mood swings are bad for all of us (: Congrads btw.

Yeah, I try, but I can't get comfy right now so I get much less sleep than I want. Thanks for the congrads!

So to conclude I believe that both Trebis and Mizzy (and myself and most others) are just having trouble including themselves in the game rather than purposely posting all talk and no action.

I've felt a little afraid to contribute much because I haven't wanted to get involved or cause a big hullabaloo like we had earlier on Khev. So, yes, I think that might be the case.

[Mizzy]

EBWOP:

I've felt a little afraid to contribute much because I haven't wanted to get involved

with

or cause a big hullabaloo like we had earlier on Khev. So, yes, I think that might be the case.

Cripes, I need sleep. *Waddles off*

[Erg0]

If there's one thing this game needs, it's more hullabaloos.

Mizzy: This may have already been raised, but it was a single sentence in the middle of a long post by Trebis so you shouldn't assume that it's foremost in people's minds. I still feel its a valid point against both of you, as "information without analysis" is a very valid scumtell in my experience. It's not the length of your posts I have an issue with, it's the general lack of substance. I'm not exactly campaigning for your lynch here, so a proportionate response would serve you better.

Glork: In light of this discussion, I'm curious as to why you included Mizzy in your tentative pro-town list in post 92?

[Mizzy]

Mizzy: This may have already been raised, but it was a single sentence in the middle of a long post by Trebis so you shouldn't assume that it's foremost in people's minds. I still feel its a valid point against both of you, as "information without analysis" is a very valid scumtell in my experience. It's not the length of your posts I have an issue with, it's the general lack of substance. I'm not exactly campaigning for your lynch here, so a proportionate response would serve you better.

It's a matter of opinion, I suppose. I feel I have added to the game, and I feel like there's not much of a game to add more to right now. We have too many quiet islands, as it were, and very little real participation. I also wonder, again, why you're bugging me about it and not really anyone else but Trebis.

[Mizzy]

Mizzy: This may have already been raised, but it was a single sentence in the middle of a long post by Trebis so you shouldn't assume that it's foremost in people's minds.

By the way, this bothers me. No, maybe it's not right in the front of everyone's minds, but as soon as I brought it up, it should have been. This game is about keeping past actions in mind for future reference and while yes, it was in the middle of a long post, I can expect that people would have read the entire thing and put the case he made into the back of their minds, at least, for later recall. Not to mention the ability to re-read.

[death_omen]

Joubert replaces Trebis effected immediately.

Deadline Status: 30 Jan 2008 Noon (GMT +12)

Mod Update: Prodded Sangy, Tarhalindur and OhGodMyLife

(Anyone that hasnt been active in the past 7 days).

[Erg0]

Mizzy: This may have already been raised, but it was a single sentence in the middle of a long post by Trebis so you shouldn't assume that it's foremost in people's minds.

By the way, this bothers me. No, maybe it's not right in the front of everyone's minds, but as soon as I brought it up, it should have been. This game is about keeping past actions in mind for future reference and while yes, it was in the middle of a long post, I can expect that people would have read the entire thing and put the case he made into the back of their minds, at least, for later recall. Not to mention the ability to re-read.

I generally agree, but it's difficult to keep track of every single vague aspersion that's been cast in the course of the game. Once you raised it I was certainly aware of it, but you seem to be implying that shaka and I deliberately ignored Trebis' earlier comment and pretended we were talking about something new.

[Mizzy]

I generally agree, but it's difficult to keep track of every single vague aspersion that's been cast in the course of the game. Once you raised it I was certainly aware of it, but you seem to be implying that shaka and I deliberately ignored Trebis' earlier comment and pretended we were talking about something new.

What I meant, and how I feel, is that a case was attempted to be made without first re-reading what had already been brought up. If I were going to post out of the blue that I had re-read things and found x person's actions to be noteworthy, I would first make sure someone hadn't done that before and to use specific points.

[Joubert]

Okay, guys, I know I'm not picking up Trebis' role very much here, but since there's no real voting with subtancial evidence, I'd suggest a No Lynch for today. Unless we start discussing like crazy and uncover a lot of things, it may be better for the Town, even if it's only from a mathematical point of view...

What was said is basically player X accusing Y, but Y has nothing special to say to defend, so X pretends that Y is guilty. It's not going quite far, in my opinion...

[Glork]

Vote: Joubert

[Erg0]

Um, no. We shan't be doing that, a no-lynch on day 1 is almost never the correct play. You've played a couple of newbie games, you should have beaten this out of you already.

Mizzy, I do see your point but again I think you expect too much. I certainly don't re-read the entire thread in detail every time I bring up a new point - if it's something that's already discussed and I don't remember it or have notes on it then it obviously wasn't discussed in much detail and there may be validity in raising it again. I really feel like this is basically a playstyle argument - I can see it from your point of view but I just don't think it's a particularly big deal.

[Erg0]

Glork, I take it you're feeling the wagon again?

[Mizzy]

Um, no. We shan't be doing that, a no-lynch on day 1 is almost never the correct play.

QFT. In fact, I have yet to see a normal scenario where a no-lynch on day 1 IS a good thing, and I don't know about you all, but I feel that letting the mafia get a free kill when we still have so many players not contributing would be like saying, "Hey, we suck, pick us off now!"

I really feel like this is basically a playstyle argument - I can see it from your point of view but I just don't think it's a particularly big deal.

Agreed. Shall we move on?

[Glork]

Suggesting No Lynch on Day One seems pretty shady. It's worth putting my vote back on.

I skimmed over the entire game, and have a handful of thoughts.

I don't really like Shaka's recent case against Mizzy. Mizzy is obviously one of the more cautious players (based on the exchange we had over voting philosophies).

If I weren't on Trebis/Joubert, I would probably be voting for Sangy, yeahthatguy, or TJM. They have all been entirely too quiet for my liking. We should be forcing people out of the shadows to get information. It certainly doesn't help that Sangy, Tarl, and OGML apparently haven't been active in a week.

The town seems very reluctant to take action, in my opinion. I am definitely on the side of "When things seem slow, go pick a fight with somebody to get the game moving." There aren't very many people doing enough with the tools they have. There is no reason to No-Lynch, no reason not to be throwing votes around and making people

react

and

interact

. That is, by far, the best way to find scum in this game.

[Mizzy]

Suggesting No Lynch on Day One seems pretty shady.

Agreed. I can only imagine a scum or newbie power role wanting to get to N1 so fast. Or maybe a newb in general, but he's NOT a newb...he's been enough games now that I can assume he's read

The Big Book of Shit Not To Do In Mafia

. Or at least skimmed the cliff notes.

FoS: Joubert

For the record, I FoS when I am not convinced enough to vote quite yet, so please don't stab me.

[Glork]

Mizzy: Could you give me a quick summary -- without going back and reading -- of what your current thoughts are on the following players:
RetroDucts
Glork
yeahthatguy224
Sangy
Death's Door/Erg0

[Mizzy]

Mizzy: Could you give me a quick summary -- without going back and reading -- of what your current thoughts are on the following players:
RetroDucts
Glork
yeahthatguy224
Sangy
Death's Door/Erg0

Sure can! Keep in mind this is without having re-read.

RetroDucts: He comes off as terse, to put it simply. Most of his posts come off as to-the-point, and a smidge on the aggressive side. I feel he posts when he feels he needs to.

Glork: Interesting ideas, also with a tendency to use post smaller, more compact and to-the-point messages. He seems to be someone who pokes very valid holes in shoddy defenses and enjoys it.

yeahthatguy224: I get fence-sitter vibes from him...and he hasn't contributed all that much. Possibly busy, he's a bit of a lurker, and I hope to see more from him soon. Needs replacing.

Sangy: Wishy-washy as of late...he posts some opinions earlier after saying he was sorry for being away that kind of had the feeling of, "Yeah, so, I kinda think this, and don't think that, and, yeah, stuff." Needs replacing.

Erg0: Erg0 comes off as being blunt but with a fair bit of logic behind his posts. I don't like some of his actions, but he's very willing to debate with others about them, and sticks to his guns. Death's Door I didn't get a very good read on.

Put in order from most suspicious to least (not including anyone else):

Erg0
Glork
RetroDucts
yeahthatguy224
Sangy

Again, that list doesn't hold everyone, and the lurkers are at the bottom because I suck at reading lurkers.

[Tarhalindur]

/prodded, and noted reason for absence in V/LA

Unvote, Vote: thejivemachine

[Mizzy]

/prodded, and noted reason for absence in V/LA

Unvote, Vote: thejivemachine

Um, explanation please?