Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[momo]

Agreement^

[havingfitz]

I didn't realize hapa even had any completed scum-games games on here.

Idk...it appears hapa has a history with OoO which combined with daytalk....who knows how that dynamic would play out.

I know from experience though that MOI is not the same player (literally of course but more so figuratively) as OoO and that MOI has no problem being bussed by or bussing partners. So that alone could effect team mate interactions.

[havingfitz]

I say we lynch fitz today and OOO tomorrow.

You sound pretty certain OoO would be the best choice for tomorrow. If you had to pick someone else for tomorrow's lynch who would it be?

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, so a quick question Fitz: is it normal for you to take into account suspicion from people who know each other and factor that into your reads? For example, part of the reason you initially scumread Hap was because outoforder and Rels knew him from offsite and were both scumreading him and you were considering that. Do you recall doing that in the past as town or scum?

[havingfitz]

Yeah, so a quick question Fitz: is it normal for you to take into account suspicion from people who know each other and factor that into your reads?

No. This is the first game I been in where a group with history on another mafia site were in a game. I assumed a lengthy history. So the fact two seemingly suspected hapa right from the start was as good a factor to consider on D1 as anything.

[Rels]

UNVOTE: outoforder

[Rels]

I think I wanna lynch Cass actually

[BlackVoid]

I think I wanna lynch Cass actually

Let's talk about this more.

[Rels]

yeah. Not really free right now but I'll have time in a little while

[momo]

I think I wanna lynch Cass actually

Interesting idea...will listen to what you have to say.

[outoforder]

But there is no way Cass is mafia so there is that. Not that interesting.

[Rels]

Basically OOO is trying a lot for someone looking to be unable to win the game as scum. A whole lot. I think he can do it as scum also plays to win but IDK if he would try THAT hard. Yelling non stop etc. + the stuff BV posted about Hapa trying to get in OOO's head is actually nice.
Fitz has that thing where he thought he was hammered and didn't just give up, or post a GG post or whatever, and I have a hard time believing that was fake. It seems like needlessly complicated. + his first serious push was on Hapa.
The two of them are also basically tunneling each other. They're trying a lot for scum being on a very bad spot, having to fight to get 3 (!!) mislynches before them. Being OK being lynched to get the other lynched too. No long-term plan there. OFC this could be a play so others say exactly that, BUT it's different to Cass' posts. Cass is the one not trying at all, and having long term lynches. Cass basically already has her 3 next lynches lined up, ooo Fitz and I.

OoO has been the driving force behind the game so far, and that's incredibly difficult for mafia to fake. I've seen games where OoO was active and the lead poster as mafia, but noneso in a way as productive as this. In dealing with lurkers for example (Moogin, Kop, etc.), he's questioning them and trying to figure out their alignment rather than trying to actively discredit them.

I think this is the sort of read mafia give to townies rather than their buddies. There's also the entire interaction between Hap and outoforder at the beginning of the game that reads to me like Hap was walking on eggshells trying not to trip up outoforder. If they were scum together, I'd expect light distancing rather than Hap appeasing outoforder.

two things:
scum have daytalk
ooo is most likely an extremely high level scumplayer

however: fitz's case, while it did have solid parts, was pretty shifty
i say we go with ooo's gameplan: lynch him then fitz. i really highly scumread ooo and the threadcrapping increased that scumread astronomically. now, yeah, the content would arguably be anti-wincon as scum -- but he could be trying to WIFOM it up, and like, if this were any player whose scumplay might fall below "really good" i would say "never voting that slot" but beyond a certain level of scumplay even "super obvtown" stuff like that becomes subject to WIFOM

so my feeling is: call the bluff

and i can def agree with a d4 fitz wagon if ooo's lynch isnt a townwin. not feeling momo/doom wagon tbh

ooo could have coached hapa through it because of daytalk

and rels is still a scumread but hes about equal with fitz after fitz's case. the case had good chunks, yeah, but they were almost entirely pulled from my own past arguments vs ooo, or kidamn's quips against ooo (things like the misrep and discrediting players). the rest is crap, NAI, and/or baseless shadethrowing against ooo

that doesnt make him scum on its own, its just that (as you noted) this game is down to subtleties and fitz showed weak townplay there -- which is the best i got at this point for reading slots

Basically, Cass is acting today like I would expect the last scum to act: having a plan to get 3 mislynches but not trying a lot: and Fitz and OOO are not acting like that.

[outoforder]

Eitz is not okay getting lynched. He alsoready gave three other scumreads if i flip town.

[outoforder]

And Cass is not mafia for her D1 after BV made a case on Aubrey. Basically all the reactions she gave after that doesn't make any sense as mafia. Individually maybe, but as together, never.
KidAmn is not mafia because of his rant with Hapa and his voting behaviour and the times ha actually comment on stuff (see for example -> he was very against people moving off Hapa in a very genuine way on D1).
momo is not mafia because doomfeathers was town and momo didn't shoot Kop.

So there you go.

[Rels]

And Cass is not mafia for her D1 after BV made a case on Aubrey. Basically all the reactions she gave after that doesn't make any sense as mafia. Individually maybe, but as together, never.

if you're talking about her posts where she shit on BV after the Hawk case but before the flip, then I agree they were townie. But I know I could fake them. And there is no game I can compare her scumgame to, so I don't know if she can do it or not.

[Rels]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=8962482#p8962482]
both are good lynches in different ways. fitz is the better one but hapa's flip is, i think, indicative of fitz's alignment. so we indirectly catch scum on a town!hapa flip and we get a near-confirmed townie on a scum!hapa flip

i think hapa is indicative of fitz's alignment because fitz was pushing hapa for a lynch before i even replaced in on d1, and that wagon had momentum. no brakes were applied and requests for more votes were made -- scum wouldnt unprovoked-hard-bus that sort of way in this setup, but fitz has been a lot more cautious on most other wagons to come up

the opposite (fitz being alignment indicative for hapa) is NOT necessarily true i think (it would narrow possible worlds down more, however -- scum!fitz has two possible teams, scum!hapa has three)

p-edit damnit hammer[/quote]
yo Cass, I thought Fitz was gonna be near-confirmed town if Hapa flips scum ? Why are you OK with both OOO / Fitz getting lynched today / tomorrow ?

[Rels]

Okay, so hapahauli just replaced into another game. That pretty much confirms that he's scum and his excuses for being busy are a load of bullshit.

Can someone please take Fitz off of L-1 and lynch Hap? We can revisit Fitz tomorrow.

since kidamn voted, ill just call intent to hammer regardless of which of those wagons its for
UNVOTE:

both are good lynches in different ways. fitz is the better one but hapa's flip is, i think, indicative of fitz's alignment. so we indirectly catch scum on a town!hapa flip and we get a near-confirmed townie on a scum!hapa flip

i think hapa is indicative of fitz's alignment because fitz was pushing hapa for a lynch before i even replaced in on d1, and that wagon had momentum. no brakes were applied and requests for more votes were made -- scum wouldnt unprovoked-hard-bus that sort of way in this setup, but fitz has been a lot more cautious on most other wagons to come up

the opposite (fitz being alignment indicative for hapa) is NOT necessarily true i think (it would narrow possible worlds down more, however -- scum!fitz has two possible teams, scum!hapa has three)

p-edit damnit hammer

yo Cass, I thought Fitz was gonna be near-confirmed town if Hapa flips scum ? Why are you OK with both OOO / Fitz getting lynched today / tomorrow ?

[outoforder]

And Cass is not mafia for her D1 after BV made a case on Aubrey. Basically all the reactions she gave after that doesn't make any sense as mafia. Individually maybe, but as together, never.

if you're talking about her posts where she shit on BV after the Hawk case but before the flip, then I agree they were townie. But I know I could fake them. And there is no game I can compare her scumgame to, so I don't know if she can do it or not.

She started shitting on BV when BV started pushing Aubrey. I totally missed it on D2 when i was trying to figure out wtf cass is doing.
Go look at her filter.

[outoforder]

I mean like it makes sense as mafia in case she is wanting town credit for scum lynch and doesn't think she can do anything about BV's push (so like she would be right and BV lynches a townie in Aubrey). But then she throws all the town credit out of the window with the stance on Hawk for like nothing. Like the only thing that makes sense she does that for as mafia is bussing -> town credit but then apparently she doesn't want the town credit after all. So she must be town.

[Rels]

mm

[Rels]

I see what you mean.

[havingfitz]

1) Eitz is not okay getting lynched. 2) He alsoready gave three other scumreads if i flip town.

1) With a lone exception I have never been ok getting lynched in 100+ games over the past 8 years. I don't like getting lynched. I try to make it as hard as possible for people to lynch me regardless of my alignment. As town - so that scum have to earn their mislynch. As scum - because obvious.

2) I didn't give a scumlist...I said if you flipped town...that based on VCA some players look bad but I didn't think any of them were scum.
How is that different than you saying Rels or me for the lynch and that momo is very very likely town? I.e. leaving the door open that he is not.

[outoforder]

I didnt know saying someone is very very likely to be town is leaving a door open for them being scum... and Rels is not scum
So yes, thats very different from what youre doing..

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Rels

oh you wanna wifom, i will fucking wifom you.

Lynch me and lycnh Rels. Or the other way around. Idc.

You just gave out your scum motive. ^^

I will hammer myself if at L-1

Just lynch Rels the next day.

BV, read this. Please consider on what you read on his posts.

I didnt know saying someone is very very likely to be town is leaving a door open for them being scum...

and Rels is not scum

So yes, thats very different from what youre doing..

Ohhhh...OK.

[outoforder]

You are really not good at understanding tilt are you?