Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[outoforder]

I am sorry if you are thinking about other possibilities or think about the game all day and night but i don't see that translating into your posts.

[outoforder]

If yes, why are you ignoring that post where Hawk said "mm too many people wants to vote Hapa it's suspicious" just after voting me ?

Because the post doesn't mean anything in the scenario i find most likely. I have literally just argued about it.

WELL THEN GO CHECK IT BEFORE MAKING CALLS

If yes, why are you saying Hawk jumped off my wagon to Aubrey's when my wagon was starting to have a lot of people ?

Clarify please, i don't understand the question.

You said:

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere.

I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.

Which is false, when he switched to Aubrey I only had 2 votes left on me.

The post doesn't mean anything. If you do think it means something then fucking say what instead of calling my thought process (you apparently have no idea about) scummy.

What is false there? Having votes != thread sentiment. Thread sentiment suggests that Hawk started deflecting from lynching you (which he never really did try in the first place tbh) when people got somewhat interested in it. The number of votes you were having when he unvoted is irrelevant.

I thought you were only trying to prove Hapa was town, not that I was scum ? But here you're saying you were actually arguiing that Hawk's voting pattern makes me more likely to be scum. But I thought you were just trying to prove I wasn't town just because of Hawk's actions ....
And if that post doesn't mean anything, what post does mean something then ? You still haven't reread this part of the thread, even though you're basing lots of reads on it ?

Like here is a prime example of you making something look like something that i didn't actually say and i don't like it.
However you want to push it i NEVER EVER said "Hawk's vote on Rels means they are mafia together", i said "Hawk's vote on Rels doesn't exclude them being partners (because of [reasons] i laid out before)". If you wanna twist it that way then i cannot help you, and tbh that's not the only time you do this. Read the underlined sentence and think about what it actually says. Like you from all the people should know when i call people mafia as any alignment i dont use conditionals like that.

[outoforder]

Like if i was calling you mafia i would make a case and summarize it into the thread instead of arguing with you why you are mafia....

[havingfitz]

So BV...what did I like about your hapa case.

Well...for one thing...the fact it came from you. I think by the time you made your case for town!hana you had over 60 posts. One series of which basically came to my defense from OoO's assinine suspicions of me due to the fact I wallposted after letting him know most people didn't like them and for giving my crap about posting a section of my catch up with the promise of more later.

I did not see any reason scum would defend me and your words were basically coming right out of my mind. So in my mind you are pretty strong town as far ass D1 town reads go.

I would not say any of my scum reads were etched in stone on D1 so the scum read I had on hana was tenuous. I think I had expressed a willingness to discard the suspicions based on Rels and OoO's early scum read. I did however still object to the way hapa had slipped on to my wagon for Aubrey's weak reasoning.

So in my mind I still suspect hana..I've had issue with Aubrey...and my other suspects are all being widely town read. And I have not put any cases together on them that would get any support. Aside from hapa and Aubrey any suspicions I have are based on gut.

Then I wake up on the deadline day and you are lobbying me directly that hapa is town and Aubrey is scum...with addiitonal supporting posts both before and after the one I link to.

The fact you looked over some of his other games was convincing (something I do not typically do).
The opinion if town...that hana would be a strong asset played a consideration also.

So fine....hana is a weak D1 scum read who will work as a lynch but you are adament he is town. Aubrey is someone I've suspected who you are adament is scum.

Works for me.
But wait....Flip flop Aubrey is town....kill kill kill Hawk NOW! Deadline approacheth!

But wait....I don't support wagons on players I town read.

If it's not going to be Aubrey...and your defense of hana is still valid as far as I can see...then who? Creature? No. OoO? Sadly not. Kop has a lot of suspicions towards him and he's lurking hard and posting complete shit as of late (iirc he did have some early posts I liked)....fine...I'm not doing Hawk but if you are so confident that hana and Aubrey are town...Kop would do for a D1 lynch. If Kop's not scum as least he's been pretty worthless town up to this point.

As for OoO...I'm not voting him because I haven't had the chance to put together a proper case on him. Work/weekend vLAs/blizzards/ultra-defense question answering mode have tied me up in here.

[havingfitz]

You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when

you can't even keep your own vote status straight.

I am voting for you and Tenshii just missed my vote.

At least fucking pretend you're reading the game scum.

wait wtf:
VOTE: havingfitz

Irony...

[cassielle]

outoforder recently purchased mining equipment on the grey market
he had to sell his towncred to finance that hole hes been digging today

rels is the more likely to be town of ooo/rels

[cassielle]

i can see town saying "dont vote anywhere but fitz or me"
i cant see town saying "dont LOOK anywhere but fitz or me"

1 is trying to keep lynches in a sane pool
2 is trying to stop town from scumhunting. gets them towncred for being willing to be the sacrifice, tho theres a risk of getting called on their bluff

[Creature]

Young man, there's no need to feel down.
I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground.
I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town
there's no need to be unhappy.

Young man, there's a place you can go.
I said, young man, when you're short on your dough.
You can stay there, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time.

[cassielle]

also: despite saying hes one of the best lynches for today, if people scumread him and push his slot he gets volatile and nasty about it
when rels scumreads him he shadecasts, when he talks about a town!fitz world he says (paraphrasing) "just flip a coin on whichever top dog townie is alive at LyLo" and says that "whoever it is doesnt deserve to win" -- which isnt pro-town
he derails attempts to search out of the ooo/fitz pool, and refuses to consider any other possibilities -- arguably town would always know theyre better off looking in the dusty corners or at LEAST letting someone else look into them, whereas scum know who is scum already and so they dont understand the need to search the same way

in general i dont like his play from a town perspective -- but its very pro-scum if hes convincing enough (and i think he is)

[Rels]

Like if i was calling you mafia i would make a case and summarize it into the thread instead of arguing with you why you are mafia....

lol the irony is fucking great ... because I did it .... and I just linked it to you:

"OH YEAH HAPA VOTING EVERY WAGON BUT HAWK'S MEANS HE S PROBABLY TOWN"

What are you atalking about i never said such a thing especially when i have fucking argued Hapa WOULDNT (as mafia) vote for Hawk...

BUT WHY WOULD I KILL KOP ? ONLY I CANNOT KILL HIM"

That's not what i said. I said i never kill him, i didn't say i am the ONLY one who cannot kill him.

"(D2) CANT SEE HAPA BEING SCUM OTHER THAN WITH CASS / CREATURE (D3) ACTUALLY ITS STILL FITZ"

Yeah i didn't. I somehow thought their votes (hapa-fitz) on D1 were much more TvM indicative than they were. And because i thought Hapa was town i didn't see the "scrub scumteam" (see the wagon on him on D1) that i see now.

Where the fuck are the inconsistencies you're talking about?

It's in my filter

[outoforder]

And i just told you how they are not...

[BlackVoid]

I am still going to say that whoever of BV/Rels/Creature is alive at lylo should be auto-lynched because they are good enough to solve the game and they will have (after D2) 4 weeks to solve this game with at least 2 of them being alive. If they cannot do that and end up on retarded reads like this, they should be lynched. Always. Even if Fitz is alive at lylo i would lynch onto whoever of those three is alive because they deserve to lose the game whatever alignment they are at that point.

How are you simultaneously arguing this while also arguing we

have

to lynch Fitz and you? You are basically saying if you are wrong on Fitz, town should lose. If you get lynched today, Fitz tomorrow, and one of me/Creature/Rels makes lylo, get lynched and lose. Except if you are wrong on Fitz, you can't expect us to solve the game before lylo while also definitely lynching Fitz. The only way out of that is to not lynch you and you are implying that in a really roundabout fashion. And when I express the possibility of scum outside you/Fitz, you pretty much tell me it has to be him. Nothing you are arguing these past two day phases has been making any sense to me, and this kill whoever of me/Creature/Rels are alive in lylo should be lynched sounds more like a wifomy threat than anything.

Then there's your point on the nightkill. If you want to argue that it's not indicative of anything, that's fine. But you are posting this really weird logic that you "endgamed yourself" by killing Kop but that's not the case at all. You are also implying that Fitz kept me alive because I was townreading him and act like I never re-evaluate or change my reads. Considering how often I've pushed and backed off and changed my mind, it's actually pretty advantageous for Fitz to kill me N2 while I was townreading him so I can't change my mind.

[outoforder]

I dont care. Youre mafia BV. Because you have only lynched townies in this game. You should be lynched.

[BlackVoid]

So outoforder, part of the reason you didn't want to lynch Hap D1 was because when he was town, his reads are good, right? Except he was calling KidAmn scum when you claimed that he was town. He was calling Aubrey scum when you were townreading him. He was townreading Fitz while you scumread him. Your reads have been pretty much the polar opposite of each other. How did you never consider his position if you thought he was town nor reconsider your townread on him when his reads were so different than yours? Rels' interaction with Hap makes a lot more sense. He started out scumreading Hap and then when Hap made a case on KidAmn, he townread Hap and started pushing KidAmn in earnest alongside Hap. But you and Hap disagreed on so much, but you just didn't want to lynch him because his reads were good when he is town.

[BlackVoid]

I dont care. Youre mafia BV. Because you have only lynched townies in this game. You should be lynched.

If you mean, I'm town because I only lynched mafia this game, you're totally right.

[outoforder]

Also never lynch fitz he is supertownie. Just look at the cade no case case nocase. Dont worry the real cade will come around 2020 then you can decide.

[outoforder]

I dont care. Youre mafia BV. Because you have only lynched townies in this game. You should be lynched.

If you mean, I'm town because I only lynched mafia this game, you're totally right.

Deems like youre about to break that streak and it will totally make you magia because only having 10 out of 11 reads correct is scummy.

[outoforder]

Andd youre asking queations i have explained my thought process on already so i dont care to answer them.

[outoforder]

I am sorry BV. I understand your enthusiasm in being correct but youre really never gonna advance here in any way. I dont however understand how you dismiss the most obvious scumtells ever and then you call me scum for something that is horseshit until you know fitz' alignment and it makes me extremely frustrated. Youre overthinking this really hard and there is no reason to.

Also fucking lol at one of the most illogical players i have ever seen telling me how to play mafia. Its not even sad anymore, its just funny.

[BlackVoid]

I'm not set on lynching you nor have I eliminated the possibility of lynching Fitz today. There's something about way Hap gave up that looked really odd and makes me think his partner is someone that no one was scumreading (or at least thought couldn't be partners with him). Hap/outoforder team was thrown around quite a bit before his lynch so that makes me hesitate to lynch you. It does make sense if it's Fitz although the entire town being right and those being the only two options is unlikely. Fitz did seem to be angling to vote you before Hap vs him was set in stone though and they weren't voting each other until pretty much everyone else had voted. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why Fitz would shoot Kop over me. Me dying with a townread on him helps him more than me being alive to re-assess and maybe change that read.

[outoforder]

Go to Kop's filter and read his posts on D2. There is your reason.

[cassielle]

Go to Kop's filter and read his posts on D2. There is your reason.

when i do nka its "non-indicative"
when you do nka its "there is your reason"

the scum case stacks up

[outoforder]

Go to Kop's filter and read his posts on D2. There is your reason.

when i do nka its "non-indicative"
when you do nka its "there is your reason"

the scum case stacks up

That's one of the reasons why you are illogical. You do nka -> "this is who killed x", i did nka -> "this is why the nk doesnt make y town". And you cant see the difference between those two things. And i wont even bother explaining it to you because you wont understand it anyways.

[BlackVoid]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=66650

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69733

no. not mafia. blame me if i am wrong but not mafia in this game.

@outoforder, I'm curious what you found about Aubrey that made you so definitively townread him. Did you read just his ISO or skim through the game as a whole?

[outoforder]

I read one of his scumgames.